Author Topic: Excuse Me Sport  (Read 6704 times)

Online royhendo

  • RAWK Editor. Would like dumplings with his stew.
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 25,612
  • RIP Ray Osbourne
    • www.theanfieldwrap.com
Excuse Me Sport
« on: July 23, 2011, 08:37:00 AM »
1990.

1990 was a brilliant year for me. One of those years where I felt like the world was lined up on rails and I was some kind of unstoppable juggernaut - the salty joys of youth.

Let's see. I had my highers (Scottish people do them instead of A-Levels) and they went like a dream. I had a part time job by a local golf course and we'd play 10 holes for free whenever we liked. My sister, a good bit older than I am, took me to Toronto on holiday - my first ever time on a plane. When I got to Canada, I helped myself to a triple helping of my cousin's next door neighbour. She was like the local prom queen or something. The Simpsons were starting out on the telly, the Stone Roses were putting the finishing touches to their first album, 808 State were hitting the big time, Scotland won the rugby Grand Slam, and on the football front, things weren't too bad either. Liverpool were the real juggernaut, Scotland were qualifying for World Cups, and Football Italia was about to get started on Channel 4.

In those days (and maybe it's partly down to me being 17 at the time) Harry Enfield, still fresh from the grill on Saturday Night Live, was actually funny. And that's what popped into my head this morning as I woke up - a Harry Enfield sketch. A sketch that, I think, sums up our summer pretty nicely. That's if you're a pretentious over-analysing fanny like me, anyway.

The sketch sees Harry sat, white haired and ridiculously tanned at a hotel bar with a choice cut of mutton (Kathy Burke caked in make up). He looks round the bar, fixes his eyes on a sluvenly looking fella in a Hawaiian shirt, and ventures "Excuse me Sport, but I couldn't help noticing that I'm considerably richer than you".

---

There are a few little groups of football fans sat around our office at work, and it's fair to say that sentence isn't too far removed from the stuff they ping pong back and forth to each other over their morning cup of tea. The Spurs fan gets it from the Arsenal fan, the Arsenal fan gets it from the Chelsea fan, and the Liverpool fan? Well, I get some variant of it from them all. You see, overnight, after years and years of cultural groundwork, everyone's suddenly become an expert in football finance, and in the concept of 'value' in the transfer market, and in a club's ability to foot its wage bill and continue as a going concern. Quantity Surveyors, chefs, cleaners and Business Analysts - all of us talk endlessly about whether this club or that club's been ripped off in the transfer market, and 'where's all their money coming from', and the Financial Fair Play rules, and blah blah blah.

So forgive me for a double-pronged snook cocked back at 1990. In those days, as Liverpool quietly continued racking up trophy after trophy, none of us were ever that concerned with the fees we paid in the market, or who our scouts were looking at, or which slot in the side was being addressed before the others. People weren't even aware that they could talk to other faceless fellow fans on something called The Internet. If people felt Kenny was 'a disgrace' for covating Glen Hysen, there weren't too many  people in close enough proximity to hear them. The club had funds, the club had fans, and the club and fans had faith in its manager and staff.   

---

Anyway... the lad in the Hawaiian shirt - he turns round to Harry Enfield with a surprised smirk on his face and says "I doubt that mate". Astounded, and after a few splutters, Harry replies "Alright then, how much money have you got?". Mr Scruff replies "Er, I don't want to talk about this actually, it's a bit vulgar."

---

I think part of it's the fact we had those years in the company of Hicks and Gillett. We'd lost the family silver and we felt like we had to back the winner of the 4:40 at Kempton Park if we were going to be able to pay the leccy next week, let alone keep our squad in any kind of competitive shape. So we became a little educated, and we became a little concerned, and over time we started understanding what a balance sheet was, and a profit and loss account, and what words like 'amortisation' meant in relation to player recruitment.

Then of course fate dealt us a tenable connection to Michael Lewis, Billy Beane and Bill James, and we found ourselves bought by Dustin Hoffman out of Rain Man, only without the personality problems, just the mathematical brain. And he turned out to be a diamond geezer - who'd have thought it? A diamond geezer in the dugout, and a diamond geezer at the helm. Diamonds.

So now we think we're well placed to comment on whether our transfer and financial strategy's a disgrace or not.

---

So Harry continues. "Ok Pal, have it your own way, fair enough." He pauses, but gets visibly riled and can't let it go... "Forget the money - how big’s your house!?"

Mr Scruff replies quietly: "Which one? My house in LA, in Paris, on the Cap d’Antibes or my Oxfordshire mansion?"

Harry's face reddens further, if it's possible. 

Mr Scruff goes on... "or my hotel - the one you’re sitting in at the moment?

Harry of course has to have the last word, as our Hawaiian shirted friend smiles in bemusement. "Alright Pal, you’ve had your bit of fun, I hope you’re pleased with yourself. Some people eh? They get a bit of money and it goes straight to their heads."

---

We've become that accustomed to counting out each bean from the can that we've forgotten Hicks and Gillett have long since ridden into the sunset, penniless. The Fernando Torres of the financial world? He's gone, and while he did his bit when it came down to it, he's otherwise firmly disgraced. Meanwhile, Ian Ayre's slowly laid the foundations for the kind of global commercial income that most other clubs can only dream of.

Yes, the stadium issue is the big stone in our collective shoe, but like everything else in the great scheme right now, it's being addressed by people who seem pretty reliable, and whose interests broadly align with ours as fans.

It's simply the nature of competition and the need for primacy that we fret about the prices we pay on wages and transfer fees. But one day soon we'll find ourselves forgetting all that. 

One day soon we'll make the collective mental transition back to where we were in 1990. Yes, there were richer clubs, and yes, there were bigger, swankier stadiums, but by God we weren't that badly run, and by God we knew how to win a trophy or two.

Maybe it's time we calmed down and let things unfold for a change?




From here.
http://www.level3football.com/royhendo/article/excuse_me_sport
« Last Edit: July 23, 2011, 08:39:00 AM by royhendo »
Sid Lowe: "Has the environment around the game changed?"
Juanma Lillo: "Yes, the garnish has eaten the steak."

Offline edeyj

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,399
  • 1-2,1-2-3,1-2-3-4...5-0
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2011, 08:54:00 AM »
Agreed!

Offline mactifosi

  • Kopite
  • ****
  • Posts: 963
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2011, 09:53:46 AM »
Fucking brilliant mate.

As long as Kenny has the right players to work with, I don't really care how much ........ FSG so far are proving to be quite competent in that area.

We measure our success by the trophies we win not by pissing contests on twitter etc.


Offline Gerrvindh

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,538
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2011, 10:02:09 AM »
I believe Henry, Kenny and Comolli really know what they are doing. That is sufficient for me. I can just hang back and enjoy our football. :)

Top post there, Roy.
I would prefer a

R.Ferdinand - Terry - A.Ferdinand

Defence.

Offline Zlenpasha

  • Suspicious of systems. But getting lots.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,768
  • Gentlemen take polaroids.
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2011, 10:22:42 AM »
Well timed to soothe the transfer mania. No, make that lack of transfer - mania.
Always a good read.

Offline Always_A_Red

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,688
  • The reds are coming up the hill boys
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2011, 10:28:01 AM »
In Kenny I Trust.

I dont care who we buy, or how much we pay for him cos if Kenny thinks he's right for our team, our club and our plans to become great again, then thats good enough for me.

He's done it before and he'll do it again....I'm positive of this.

Sit back, relax, stop fucking whinging about everything cos we're on the up and the futures bright.

Bring on August 13th i say!!  :wave

Offline DRice

  • Anny Roader
  • ***
  • Posts: 484
  • Free to fly the Crimson Sky
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2011, 10:40:08 AM »
back then there was no internet or rawk and the only forum was the pub , there was no credit crunch and we didnt know everything!! it can never be 1990 again but i am willing to try :(
Diego Maradona: "The English club proved that miracles really do exist. I've now made Liverpool my English team. They showed that football is the most beautiful sport of all. You knew they could defend but the team showed they could play too and wrote a page in the history books. The match will last forever. "

Offline shankstheman

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 558
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2011, 10:44:04 AM »
Brilliant that Roy !
"Chairman Mao has never seen a greater show of red strength." Bill Shankly

"The difference between Everton and the Queen Mary is that Everton carry more passengers!" Bill Shankly

Offline Cesar

  • Kopite
  • ****
  • Posts: 718
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2011, 11:03:21 AM »
So tell us more about this prom queen...

Online royhendo

  • RAWK Editor. Would like dumplings with his stew.
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 25,612
  • RIP Ray Osbourne
    • www.theanfieldwrap.com
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2011, 11:09:30 AM »
So tell us more about this prom queen...

Artistic lies sense. ;)
Sid Lowe: "Has the environment around the game changed?"
Juanma Lillo: "Yes, the garnish has eaten the steak."

Offline keeby

  • Anny Roader
  • ***
  • Posts: 397
  • fly in the loaf does a good pint !
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2011, 11:16:18 AM »
Really enjoyed that royhendo, sitting here as a 41 year old growing up as a nipper with liverpool winning everything, remembering no internet or mobile phones.....happy days
was on blankety blank once and came second.........

Offline Raoul Duke

  • Is Boris Johnson.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,723
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2011, 11:22:57 AM »
Top post. You mentioned Ian Ayre, and all credit to the man for what he's brought to the club commercially - he's worked extremely hard to put us in the best position possible, whilst maintaining the sort of dignity that the club should carry out it's operations with, as well as respect for the fans.
Fool, if it wasn't for Sergei here, both you and your cousin be cadaverous mo'fuckers.

Offline geoffstrong

  • A Right Drama Queen, (actually leans more to the left) but enjoys a good flounce.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,193
  • fi am bob amser yn iawn
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2011, 11:29:24 AM »
For me though it has to be the decades when Wales were majestic on the rugby pitch collecting decent stand off halves like they were on a conveyor belt,  here we witnessed some of the best football ever produced over such a lengthy period in time!

Also met a Middlesex girl on holiday in the then Jugoslavia in 71 and still together!

As for the last bit spot on Roy as you get older you tend to believe that stepping back and allowing the right things to happen at the right pace is the way to go!

Patience comes along with getting older perhaps!
JFT 96 R.I.P
Hillsborough Independent Panel, thank you for revealing the 23 years of lies and corruption by the establishment.
http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/report/HIP_report.pdf

12-September-2012 the day the rest of the world discovered the truth and caught up with the rest us.

Offline geoffstrong

  • A Right Drama Queen, (actually leans more to the left) but enjoys a good flounce.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,193
  • fi am bob amser yn iawn
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2011, 11:30:57 AM »
So tell us more about this prom queen...

was her name was Carrie?
JFT 96 R.I.P
Hillsborough Independent Panel, thank you for revealing the 23 years of lies and corruption by the establishment.
http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/report/HIP_report.pdf

12-September-2012 the day the rest of the world discovered the truth and caught up with the rest us.

Online The Grinch

  • Number 1 is Carragher. Number 2 is Carragher. Number 3 is Carragher. Number 4 is Carragher. Likes to play God in his spare time.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,905
  • JFT 96
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2011, 11:36:34 AM »
Great piece of writing Roy and sadly I have to own up to being old enough to remember that particular sketch first time around.

The only problem is that the whole thing is based on the premise that we can go back to the way it was in 1990. Then the Club was owned by the shareholders mainly local people who had an intense interest in the Club, we had AGM's where the shareholders could speak and crucially we actually knew who owned the Club. We had football people running the Club and the business as a whole produced an annual statement.

We don't have any of that now. We are owned by a secretive hedge fund that doesn't publish any accounts, we haven't a clue who these people are, we have no AGM's or an annual statement for the whole business.

A lot of fans are under the impression that we are owned by John Henry, we are not he and Werner merely run the fund that they and an unknown number of investors invest in. When they took over they promised not to load debt on the Club but wouldn't rule out placing debt further up the organisation.

When SOS asked them to clarify this situation and to clarify where the money to buy the Club came from FSG told them basically that it was none of our business. There are very few checks and balances in place and that worries the hell out of me.

A perfect example is that under Premier League rules a Club needs to inform the Premier League of any investors that own more 10% or more of a business. FSG told the Premier League that only Henry owned 10% or more of the Club. When The New York Times needed to sell part of it's stake in FSG it became apparent that they actually owned 17.6% of the Club.

Henry and Werner were called in by the Premier League and soon after the Club's website was amended to include the NYT as owning more than 10%. Since then the NYT has sold part of it's share and is now undoubtedly under the 10% threshold but there is no information on who has bought the part of their holding that they have sold and the website still reads.

The sole owner of the Liverpool Football Club and Athletic Grounds Limited is Fenway Sports Group (legally organized as NESV I, LLC). The economic interest in this company is held by a range of investors, including Tom Werner. Those holding more than a 10% interest are John Henry and the New York Times Company (which is quoted on the New York Stock Exchange). John Henry and Tom Werner are generally responsible for the management of Fenway Sports Group.

Another question is it is widely reported in the States that the Red Sox ground is now owned not by the Red Sox but by FSG and the Red Sox now pay FSG rent. Is that the situation here or do FSG plan to do the same here ?

We haven't got a clue and lets face it FSG are unlikely to tell us.

The other worry is that basically we are at the mercy of the markets if things go badly for any of the investors of FSG then they are likely to cash in their holdings the way the NYT has done.

This will more than likely in the great traditions of RAWK be seen as an attack on Henry and FSG who are riding a wave of popularity at the moment. It's not it's just asking the question how can we possibly put so much faith in people and an organisation that we know so very little about and where are the checks and balances that local ownership and AGM's and the like used to provide.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline KK Legend

  • Anny Roader
  • ***
  • Posts: 405
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2011, 11:48:30 AM »
1990.

1990 was a brilliant year for me........... < WHOLE POST>

Aye!!! Niceswan.

Being honest it doesn't really bother me much at all how much we spend on bringing a player in, never really has. I'm considerably more concerned with what they do in a red shirt than how many replica shirts will sell with their name on the back or what they'll be worth in three years.

I can cast an eye over it, take in and understand pieces of it and probably give an opinion on those and I also like the idea behind the FFP and hope it works. We can all bicker away endlessly about how much Carrol is worth or how much he'll be worth in 2015, matters not a jot to me, it's just a subject to share an opinion on and that's about it.

The main thing is for me and god knows we need a bit of positivity after the last couple of years is that we now have one of our own in charge of footballing matters again and it appears he and for the sake of the club moving forward are backed by the type of support that should have been in place in the upper echelons well before 2011, and 1990 for that matter.

Online royhendo

  • RAWK Editor. Would like dumplings with his stew.
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 25,612
  • RIP Ray Osbourne
    • www.theanfieldwrap.com
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2011, 11:49:27 AM »
But Al, there's intelligent debate and then there's hysterical nonsense like some have been dishing us up this week. Fair enough, worry, but Christ, I wish a few on here and elsewhere would spare us the "if we loan Meireles/don't buy a left back/spend any more money without selling then our transfer dealings are a disgrace!"

That's what gets me. I'm talking about the football, just this once.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2011, 11:52:30 AM by royhendo »
Sid Lowe: "Has the environment around the game changed?"
Juanma Lillo: "Yes, the garnish has eaten the steak."

Offline L6 Red

  • Proud to be sponsored by Kleenex - the only tissue for your Messi moments.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,738
  • Free the Thommo one
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2011, 11:52:20 AM »
I love you.

Online Red Beret

  • Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,816
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2011, 11:57:19 AM »
Spot on Roy.  Being saying as much myself on and off for weeks now.  Some seem convinced FSG are going to turn around any second and embed a rather large knife in our collective back, screaming "April Fool!".  That or Henry's going to rip his face off to reveal he's still Tom Hicks.  Or something...
Please get involved with Community Union

Online royhendo

  • RAWK Editor. Would like dumplings with his stew.
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 25,612
  • RIP Ray Osbourne
    • www.theanfieldwrap.com
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2011, 12:00:46 PM »
Sid Lowe: "Has the environment around the game changed?"
Juanma Lillo: "Yes, the garnish has eaten the steak."

Online The Grinch

  • Number 1 is Carragher. Number 2 is Carragher. Number 3 is Carragher. Number 4 is Carragher. Likes to play God in his spare time.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,905
  • JFT 96
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2011, 12:02:33 PM »
But Al, there's intelligent debate and then there's hysterical nonsense like some have been dishing us up this week. Fair enough, worry, but Christ, I wish a few on here and elsewhere would spare us the "if we loan Meireles/don't buy a left back/spend any more money without selling then our transfer dealings are a disgrace!"

That's what gets me.

I couldn't agree more mate, the irony is that the people who come out with the all the transfer nonsense and the "he's brilliant on the xbox garbage" are the exact people Purslow was aiming the Joe Cole transfer at last summer and they fell for it hook line and sinker.

For me Downing is the perfect example he has always been a talented extremely efficient wide player exactly what we have needed for a long time. When Rafa wanted to sign him for ten million he was according to the transfer experts garbage, now Kenny has signed him for Ł16-20m he is a genius and as soon as he starts playing for us the same so called transfer experts will be horrified that he doesn't do twenty seven stepovers and tear the arse out of full backs without actually achieving very much.

What they won't notice is that he shifts the ball very well, finds space very well and does exactly what he is supposed to do with the minimum of fuss.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline geoffstrong

  • A Right Drama Queen, (actually leans more to the left) but enjoys a good flounce.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,193
  • fi am bob amser yn iawn
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2011, 12:05:02 PM »
I couldn't agree more mate, the irony is that the people who come out with the all the transfer nonsense and the "he's brilliant on the xbox garbage" are the exact people Purslow was aiming the Joe Cole transfer at last summer and they fell for it hook line and sinker.

For me Downing is the perfect example he has always been a talented extremely efficient wide player exactly what we have needed for a long time. When Rafa wanted to sign him for ten million he was according to the transfer experts garbage, now Kenny has signed him for Ł16-20m he is a genius and as soon as he starts playing for us the same so called transfer experts will be horrified that he doesn't do twenty seven stepovers and tear the arse out of full backs without actually achieving very much.

What they won't notice is that he shifts the ball very well, finds space very well and does exactly what he is supposed to do with the minimum of fuss.
JFT 96 R.I.P
Hillsborough Independent Panel, thank you for revealing the 23 years of lies and corruption by the establishment.
http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/report/HIP_report.pdf

12-September-2012 the day the rest of the world discovered the truth and caught up with the rest us.

Offline geoffstrong

  • A Right Drama Queen, (actually leans more to the left) but enjoys a good flounce.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,193
  • fi am bob amser yn iawn
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2011, 12:07:11 PM »
Top post Al but they live in a I want it now age were even yesterday's values are gone today! They are living in an instant world and suffer for it!
JFT 96 R.I.P
Hillsborough Independent Panel, thank you for revealing the 23 years of lies and corruption by the establishment.
http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/report/HIP_report.pdf

12-September-2012 the day the rest of the world discovered the truth and caught up with the rest us.

Offline No666

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,866
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2011, 12:16:48 PM »
Best thing I've read on here for weeks, mate.
Liverpool is a special place because they make their own players into gods extraordinarily, recklessly quickly.

Offline trigger

  • sexist and shallow
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,060
  • The romans invented the knob on a stick
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2011, 12:30:26 PM »
Fucking excellent post, spot on as usual mate.
Frankly if your team is mentioned in a Liverpool song, you should be chuffed

Online Barneylfc

  • RAWK 8 Ball Multiplayer Cup Champion. Cross-dressing golfer. Wannabe Mod.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,448
  • Now Shevchenko cant sleep cuz Carra's in town
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2011, 12:30:33 PM »
Best thing I've read on here for weeks, mate.
A thread about a fit bird. My girlfriend to be precise

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=305016.0

Offline The 92A

  • Mr Bus. But there'll be another one along soon enough.
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,229
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2011, 12:41:17 PM »
Fantastic OP, one of the reasons I like this site is posts like that, read it nodding in agreement. Then read Al's post and think you right to be vigilant Al, I think all of us, while welcoming the new owners, hold back a little as is natural after G&H, but rather than the ownership situation this is about the football. Must be honest the LFC forum has been totally missable recently and I can't wait for the football to start so we can talk about football again.
Strip that bully Bettison of his Knighthood https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/47770

Online royhendo

  • RAWK Editor. Would like dumplings with his stew.
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 25,612
  • RIP Ray Osbourne
    • www.theanfieldwrap.com
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2011, 12:43:24 PM »
Yeah, Al's post was spot on I thought.
Sid Lowe: "Has the environment around the game changed?"
Juanma Lillo: "Yes, the garnish has eaten the steak."

Online Vulmea

  • Almost saint-like.....
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,167
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2011, 01:02:59 PM »
sounds more like you wanna be 17 again .........

1990 was just after Hillsborough, footie had lost a lot of its shine for me back then but putting that to one side

fans today have no tolerance - 1990 we gave a lot, expected little and got it, now the majority expect a lot, give little, get little and then moan like crap because they dont get more

we'd queue to get in or get the game 2 hours ahead to make sure and then stand around catching up with your mates, read the half dozen pages of your program 10 times, with no toilets worth mentioning, one crap little shop selling pies - fans now turn up 5 minutes before and moan about the price of their seat or the time it took to get their burger from one of a gazillion kiosks, read their glossy brochure/program or get on their mobile and talk to their mates or browse the world wide web about sod knows what even after the games kicked off

I'm not saying it was 'better' in 1990 it was different, life was different, what seemed important was different - the genies out the bottle now , it aint going back in

Success in football is determined by money, its a plutocracy - ok it can move around the edges but thats marginal - its so clear a link even the dumbest supporter can see the connection however much Sky want to pretend otherwise - so even the dumbest supporter is going to continue to have an opinion on it

if you can take that bias out of the game, make it more of a competition than a procession then perhaps you can go back to concentrating on the game until then we're snookered.




 

The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate, contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.

John F. Kennedy/Shanklyboy.

Offline SmithdownAndy

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,652
  • LFC. Did You Really Think We Would Leave You Dying
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2011, 01:03:52 PM »
Great post Young Roy (A levels in 1990, you're still a pup mate) ;D And we want photographic proof of the prom queen or we ain't having it ;)

Al's right though, we always need to remain vigilant, don't get me wrong I think FSG are doing a good job, but they could be a bit more transparent on a few things. I don't mean the day to day running of the club, commercial deals blah blah blah, but the structure of FSG, the stadium and any debt are legitimate areas that need more clarity.

Rest In Eternal Peace Ray (shanklyboy) - Gone but will NEVER be forgotten

8th January 2011 - Return of the King - Welcome Home Kenny

Offline SuperSubway

  • Boys Pen
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2011, 01:58:20 PM »
Entertaining OP and informative response from Al.
Thanks for the excellent read lads.

Offline Arcadian

  • Makes pissed even when sense!
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,117
  • Be the change you want to see in the world...
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2011, 02:06:34 PM »
But Al, there's intelligent debate and then there's hysterical nonsense like some have been dishing us up this week. Fair enough, worry, but Christ, I wish a few on here and elsewhere would spare us the "if we loan Meireles/don't buy a left back/spend any more money without selling then our transfer dealings are a disgrace!"

That's what gets me. I'm talking about the football, just this once.


I see the Aquilani thread set you off more than it did me :-)


*                        *                          *                            *                         *

Offline geoffstrong

  • A Right Drama Queen, (actually leans more to the left) but enjoys a good flounce.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,193
  • fi am bob amser yn iawn
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2011, 02:08:18 PM »
Agree with Al about vigilance so long as it doesn't lapse into irrational paranoia
JFT 96 R.I.P
Hillsborough Independent Panel, thank you for revealing the 23 years of lies and corruption by the establishment.
http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/report/HIP_report.pdf

12-September-2012 the day the rest of the world discovered the truth and caught up with the rest us.

Offline corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,917
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2011, 02:14:25 PM »
Nice one, Roy.

Offline Ikki.Fenikkusu

  • Anny Roader
  • ***
  • Posts: 473
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2011, 02:19:05 PM »
A nice creative bit of writing where the central point, IMO, is simply an echo of another thread that was posted not too far back asking for fans to suspend belief and sense because "Liverpool fans used to do it".

It's completely advisable and desirable for a fan-base to be knowledgeable. This whole spiel about good times and how they were is irrelevant to the now and Liverpool most support today.

Offline Hunter Thompson

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,008
  • Possibilities, no?
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2011, 02:23:28 PM »
Excellent.

What would Mrs Brown think?

Online TomDcs

  • Cross dressing, pant shitting, clothes thief
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,198
  • We won it 5 times......
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2011, 02:29:13 PM »
Great OP, I can visually recall that scene from harry enfield and all the dialogue in it and you've used it in that context extremely well. It's been said alot by people on here but i'm very happy to be able to focus on the football side of things and as much as i'll always be a bit nervous of the financial side of things after the cancers, i've tried to swerve any debates about it with other sets of fans as, to be frank, it's dull and a little bit vulgar.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2011, 02:31:00 PM by TomDcs »
We'll be 4th by xmas

Offline Strummer77

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,458
  • @AlexDavis90
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2011, 02:55:32 PM »

Online royhendo

  • RAWK Editor. Would like dumplings with his stew.
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 25,612
  • RIP Ray Osbourne
    • www.theanfieldwrap.com
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2011, 04:53:24 PM »
It's completely advisable and desirable for a fan-base to be knowledgeable. This whole spiel about good times and how they were is irrelevant to the now and Liverpool most support today.

I never at any stage say it's I'll-advised or undesirable for the fan base to be knowledgeable. The point I'm trying to make, in my view acutely relevant to 'the now', is that we need to be aware of its limitations and recognise the need to reserve judgement until we have something to judge.
Sid Lowe: "Has the environment around the game changed?"
Juanma Lillo: "Yes, the garnish has eaten the steak."

Offline Ikki.Fenikkusu

  • Anny Roader
  • ***
  • Posts: 473
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Excuse Me Sport
« Reply #39 on: July 23, 2011, 05:01:29 PM »
I never at any stage say it's I'll-advised or undesirable for the fan base to be knowledgeable. The point I'm trying to make, in my view acutely relevant to 'the now', is that we need to be aware of its limitations and recognise the need to reserve judgement until we have something to judge.

We already do. We've seen the players we've bought before. That's how people have gauged whether the prices we're paying are too much. Whether we want to judge them negatively or not, we've already got a sample to go on.

It's also clearly obvious you have a problem with the negative critiques of said players. If you truly believed we shouldn't judge a player then you'd also be talking about not calling them "good signings" as we don't know that either.

Maybe it's just me, but there is this distinct vibe on RAWK where unless you're positive about everything the club does you can't call yourself a proper fan.

Personally, I think the club is in great shape and we're heading forward well under Kenny. But it's not going to stop me calling a duck a duck. If it's quacked in another shirt, it isn't going to moo for us.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2011, 05:06:50 PM by Ikki.Fenikkusu »