Topic: Doni signs

[Johnny C]

That's not really an 'aside' you've identified the fundamental problem with backup keepers and thus why this makes quite a bit of sense.

There are five types of backup goalkeepers at this level;

1.2.3.4.5

Doni comes in the knowledge he's backup and will ultimately allow us to realise an asset in Gulacsi; having a 21 year old full international sat on the books when he's not needed is surely what represents bad business?

Excellent points.

I have zero problem signing a guy like Doni or an Enyeama or a Sorensen or Hildebrand as a #2.  We were extremely lucky last season that Pepe didn't go down for a few weeks/months, as Middlesbrough's ex-#3 keeper certainly wouldn't have been able to fit the bill.

However, IMO it's not just getting the player in the door.  It's getting them in the door @ the right price.  And it's with this point that I do not believe that the Doni signing was a good bit of business.

If Doni was on for what Enyeama was making @ Lille (£17K per week on a 3yr deal) I'd have no problem with it.  But considering that Doni was just making the equivalent of £78K per week on a 2yr deal @ Roma, I am pretty certain the guy is making much MUCH more than the typical good experienced #2 GK here @ Liverpool.

IMO there were other very available / significantly experienced / much less expensive options out there.

There are five types of backup goalkeepers at this level;
.
.
5. Veteran, quality keepers who are displaced by a new signing and are looking for a new club - Doni/Dudek, they understand the situation and don't leave you with a hole to fill every one or two seasons.

This #5 is exactly what Kenny seems to be communicating that he wants.

However, this is NOT a situation where you overpay for the player.  This is a situation where you are bringing an experienced #2 keeper in every few years.  You bring in a guy who wants to prolong his career and play @ a top-level. As opposed to Doni (or JCole) the player and the Club will have realized that his highest earning years are behind him.  That said, there is absolutely no need to overpay for this role, which IMO Comolli just went and did.

[BigMarcs]

Agree with Johnny C, he was first choice at Roma for a couple of years, so he wouldn't be on low wages. Even more surprised that he would move to Liverpool with the knowledge hes going to be second choice. Hes 31 now, entering the prime of his career, he could be a starter at a mid level club in one of the big leagues. He also doesn't count as a homegrown player so it does seem a bit strange, I would think its better promoting Gulacsi or just keeping Jones.

But at the end of the day, if hes happy with the conditions, then Liverpool probably have the best no.2 in the league, who can fill in adequately if Reina gets injured, so its good for both parties.

[peachybum]

Agree with Johnny C, he was first choice at Roma for a couple of years, so he wouldn't be on low wages. Even more surprised that he would move to Liverpool with the knowledge hes going to be second choice. Hes 31 now, entering the prime of his career, he could be a starter at a mid level club in one of the big leagues. He also doesn't count as a homegrown player so it does seem a bit strange, I would think its better promoting Gulacsi or just keeping Jones.

But at the end of the day, if hes happy with the conditions, then Liverpool probably have the best no.2 in the league, who can fill in adequately if Reina gets injured, so its good for both parties.

Gulacsi has potential to be a really good keeper. Sitting on the bench for a season won't do him any good(or us long term). He's better off playing a full season on loan in the championship.

Maybe Jones won't be off either? Comolli/Kenny may have decided they want 3 season keepers so even if there's an injury or suspension we have two for the match day squad.

I really don't think Doni would have come if he had no hope of even playing a game so i'd expect him to be our league cup goalkeeper!

[StevieSuarezJoe]

Good Signing.

[firing squad]

people suggesting that Doni isn't better than Jones are seriously deluded. This is the guy who has almost 200 games for Roma,winning the Cup and about 10 caps for Brazil.

[paddypower]

Look at the goals we conceded today..

[dmn]

people suggesting that Doni isn't better than Jones are seriously deluded. This is the guy who has almost 200 games for Roma,winning the Cup and about 10 caps for Brazil.

You may not have heard of something called "Internet", but it can be used to easily find out what Roma supporters think.

[Acaustiq]

If Doni was on for what Enyeama was making @ Lille (£17K per week on a 3yr deal) I'd have no problem with it.  But considering that Doni was just making the equivalent of £78K per week on a 2yr deal @ Roma, I am pretty certain the guy is making much MUCH more than the typical good experienced #2 GK here @ Liverpool.

He was making £65k (according you you) and was offered a 60% paycut (according to him), that's £26k isn't it.

£26k for a 32 year old capped Brazilian who's played at the highest level of the game at a fairly big club.

In no realm is that 'overpaying' - deadwood is costing us £20m+ a year whilst doing nothing for the club, that's overpaying.

IMO there were other very available / significantly experienced / much less expensive options out there.

Hence going for Friedel first, he was #4 though wasn't he; he wanted playing time. Sorensen is in the same situation as Poulsen with regards to international duty, Enyeama will take off once the Nigeria manager starts saying he needs to play to keep his place.

However, this is NOT a situation where you overpay for the player.  This is a situation where you are bringing an experienced #2 keeper in every few years.  You bring in a guy who wants to prolong his career and play @ a top-level. As opposed to Doni (or JCole) the player and the Club will have realized that his highest earning years are behind him.  That said, there is absolutely no need to overpay for this role, which IMO Comolli just went and did.

The club had a figure in mind, the player initially turned them down, the club stuck to it and got their man, they haven't been bent over and forced to take a bad deal.

Turning over players every one or two seasons costs money, be it in transfers and agents fees or inflated wages for frees.

[Danny_]

Glad we got a decent back-up.  Hopefully, we don't need him but we did need to get this done.  Welcome to the club Doni

[Johnny C]

He was making £65k (according you you) and was offered a 60% paycut (according to him), that's £26k isn't it.
£26k for a 32 year old capped Brazilian who's played at the highest level of the game at a fairly big club.
In no realm is that 'overpaying' - deadwood is costing us £20m+ a year whilst doing nothing for the club, that's overpaying.

No.

I said he made ~£65K in Italy, which is the equivalent of ~£78K in England  ;  adjusting for tax differences

A 60% cut of £78K = £30K per week

£30K per week for a 32 year old who hasn't been capped for Brazil in over 4 years  ;  so let's not make him out to be a world beater  ;  hell, even Insúa had 4 caps under Maradonna

Other than the keepers who have been demoted from the first XI (Almunia, Doni @ Roma, Given, Cudicini, etc...) Doni now has the distinct honor of being THE ONLY PLAYER IN WORLD FOOTBALL who is making over £30K per week as a dedicated #2 GK.

That's what you call overpaying.

[Passmaster Molby]

Good Signing.

Or maybe not!

[Raoul Duke]

Other than the keepers who have been demoted from the first XI (Almunia, Doni @ Roma, Given, Cudicini, etc...) Doni now has the distinct honor of being THE ONLY PLAYER IN WORLD FOOTBALL who is making over £30K per week as a dedicated #2 GK.

That's what you call overpaying.

What about Brad Friedel at Spurs?

[Laughter is the best medicine...]

Other than the keepers who have been demoted from the first XI (Almunia, Doni @ Roma, Given, Cudicini, etc...) Doni now has the distinct honor of being THE ONLY PLAYER IN WORLD FOOTBALL who is making over £30K per week as a dedicated #2 GK.

shay given was on around 3 times that at city

[BeautifulGame91]

Or maybe not!

Doesn't matter.He will guarantee u trophies like no other

[Acaustiq]

No.

I said he made ~£65K in Italy, which is the equivalent of ~£78K in England  ;  adjusting for tax differences

A 60% cut of £78K = £30K per week

You said Roma owed him £65k a week, right here;

Or in sterling terms, Roma was on the hook to pay Doni roughly £65K per week

£30K per week for a 32 year old who hasn't been capped for Brazil in over 4 years  ;  so let's not make him out to be a world beater  ;  hell, even Insúa had 4 caps under Maradonna

Who made him out to be a world beater? he's exactly what I said he is, a decent veteran who's played at the highest level of the game.

Insua has also played under Batista btw, though that's no great honour.

Other than the keepers who have been demoted from the first XI (Almunia, Doni @ Roma, Given, Cudicini, etc...) Doni now has the distinct honor of being THE ONLY PLAYER IN WORLD FOOTBALL who is making over £30K per week as a dedicated #2 GK.

So apart from all those who are in the same bracket as Doni (veteran keepers with CL experience) and are resultantly on over £30k - he's the only one making over £30k, good to know.

Bored now anyway, carry on.

[Johnny C]

You said Roma owed him £65k a week, right here;

Not quite.
Here's what I said...:

So that €2.3M figure is for take home pay (i.e. after taxes)
Before taxes that equates to €4.0M per year (assuming a 43% Italian tax-rate)
That equals €77K per week
Or in sterling terms, Roma was on the hook to pay Doni roughly £65K per week

So here's where tax differences between the various countries causes difficulties for English Clubs.
 
With the higher tax-rate in Britain (50%), if Doni was going to be on the same take-home wages, Comolli & JHenry would have to pay out €4.6M per year (as opposed to the €4.0M that Roma was paying out).  In British terms that's ~£4.05M per year (or £78K per week).
 
£78K per week here @ Liverpool...  just to keep Doni on the same take home wages that he had @ Roma.

So the equivalent weekly salary for him in England is £78K.

Sure Roma either gave him a 1X payoff to leave or are significantly contributing to his wages, but it's safe to say that we are AT A MINIMUM ON THE HOOK for paying Comolli's initial offer to him...£30K per week.

Is he an upgrade from last year's #2...?   Yes
Does he bring with him significant experience that Kenny was looking for...?   Yes
But does he also bring with him outrageous wages for a #2 GK...?   Yes


In bringing Doni on board at those wages, Kenny & Comolli have made Doni the highest paid dedicated #2 GK in the entire world by a wide wide margin

• Shay Given had his wage packet in place when he was a dedicated #1, before he was demoted
• Brad Friedel moved to Tottenham @ £30-40K per week as 'Arry's new #1, not as a dedicated back-up
• Enyeama actually signed as a dedicated #2 @ LOSC, for the going rate £17K per week...  a far cry from what Doni is making

There isn't another team on Earth who brought in a dedicated #2 GK at this wage structure.  It's well beyond the going rate for dedicated #2 GKs.


What Kenny & Comolli have done is an unprecedented move.
For a player who might play 8-10 cup games tops, shelling out this kind of money for the dedicated #2 GK (and it's likely more than £2M per year considering he was just making the equivalent of £4M per year last season), on the face of it just seems like a lot.

I'm not doubting them, just pointing out that it's a ton of money for a player who will likely never play...  And that I can think of a bunch of other places associated with Liverpool FC where the difference in salary between what we are paying Doni and what typical dedicated #2 keepers are making is probably better spent.

Anyway, my point is just that it is fair enough that we upgraded the #2 GK position, but IMO at these wages it doesn't come across as the most creative bit of business.  That's all I'm getting at...

[MushyP15]

Anyway, my point is just that it is fair enough that we upgraded the #2 GK position, but IMO at these wages it doesn't come across as the most creative bit of business.  That's all I'm getting at...

You keep saying this isn't the best bit of business whilst using examples of others who are not 'straight up' back up keepers.
If he was on £10k a week less would you be happier? I can't help but feel you're splitting hairs here to labour the point. Yes we can agree that Doni isn't the cheapest number 2 out there, but a poor piece of business? I don't think you can so clearly define that when you consider his role as both Pepe's understudy and Gulacsi's replacement (as Gulacsi goes on loan) and Jones' replacement (as he gets sold).

You could argue that getting a former first choice keeper on £85k a week as a back up keeper on £30k a week is actually a very shrewd piece of business.

[Naughtykid]

Other than the keepers who have been demoted from the first XI (Almunia, Doni @ Roma, Given, Cudicini, etc...) Doni now has the distinct honor of being THE ONLY PLAYER IN WORLD FOOTBALL who is making over £30K per week as a dedicated #2 GK.

How much do you think Cuidicini and Friedel are on at Spurs?

Kirkland will be makiung that at Wigan as well.

[liverpooll]

The key is contract, hopefully it is only 1 year...

[DrTobiasFunke]

How much do you think Cuidicini and Friedel are on at Spurs?

Kirkland will be makiung that at Wigan as well.

I think Jonny's point is that Doni is being signed as a #2 and nothing more.

Kirkland was signed as first choice and so has Friedel reportedly. Cudicini was initially signed to compete with Gomes at the very least if not as first choice.

[Euskadi]

Thanks.

RE:   Gulacsi....  I really have no idea.  But we can ballpark the figure.

I will say this though....  Even Insua @ £15K per week is making £800K per year.  And that is a BOATLOAD of money even for professional football players.  When you start getting away from the Top 6 of the Prem or go to any other league, that £15K per week is pretty solid money even by European football standards.

Anyway, it's tough to see Gulacsi on for more than Insua.  If I had to guess I would say he's on for £7-10K tops.  Even @ £7K he'd be making half a million dollars per year, which seems outrageous for a 21 yr old footballer who plays League 1 football.

When you put this Doni deal in context of 28 yr old Vincent Enyeama's (who lit up the World Cup with Nigeria) recent deal @ Lille it is tough to say we are getting good value for our new #2 who will rarely play.

Enyeama who is younger and seems much better than Doni just signed on to be Lille's #2.  Lille were looking for the exact same thing that Kenny seemed to be wanting in a #2 GK.... Significant Experience.

Anyway, Lille signed Enyeama for £17K per week on a 3yr deal.  A figure that seems about right for an experienced back-up.  That still equates to €1,000,000 per year for Enyeama.  A BOATLOAD of money.  And yet it's a far far cry from what we are likely over-paying for Doni.

Been saying this for ages , some people reckon that the basic salary for a footballer in the top leagues is over 30K a week . Had an argument with a mate about it the other day and as you can tell im still worked up about it 

[Euskadi]

I'm intrigued by this.

"Comolli has revealed how he sought something of a character reference from one of our current Samba stars, Lucas Leiva, as the Reds pressed ahead with the deal to sign the 31-year-old.

He said: "I spoke to Lucas about Doni and he was very complimentary about him as a person and as a goalkeeper, so I think it's a great deal for us.

"He is suited to English football. He is big and good in the air and his distribution is quick as well. When you play for Roma for years and years, the pressure at that club in that city is tremendous, so the fact he can handle that shows he can take anything.""

Is it a good or bad thing to sign a player on another player's recommendation? I strongly hope DC identified Doni first, and only then asked Lucas for his opinion.

I think he clearly did, he identified him and then spoken to Lucas , why wouldn't you ask a player for his inside information on a transfer target? You can judge his ability through watching him but need someone who knows him on a personal level to get an idea of the kind of guy/professional he is.

[jimmyjr86]

he has signed as back-up, can step in for Reina when needed. Will allow Gulasci to go on loan for a couple of seasons to develop. Doni can then be sold to another club for 4m thus negating his wages when required

[sattapaal]

Doni, like Cavalieri, holds an Italian passport, so there is no fear in getting him appearances for a visa.

Whats the proposed fee? €2.3million? Thats not extortionate, but who knows, he may be on the exact same wages as Brad Jones, who we should be offloading.

[MushyP15]

Stopper makes Tigers move

Liverpool have today confirmed that Peter Gulacsi has joined Hull City on loan.

The Hungarian goalkeeper, who arrived at Anfield in 2008, has also signed an extension to his current contract and moves to the KC Stadium until June 30, 2012.

Gulacsi spent part of last season on loan at Tranmere Rovers but has yet to feature for the Reds' first-team in a competitive match.


http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/stopper-makes-tigers-move

So, as is clear. Doni has been brought in to make sure that Gulacsi can continue his development playing regular football. When you think what Chelsea just paid for Cech's understudy, Doni's wages and transfer fee don't seem so bad.

[The Flying Pig]

Good short term move imho.

Gives us experienced cover and the chance for Gulacsi to gain much needed experience in Hull's first team.

[Amin]

Getting fitter at the gym coz someone is now desperate to take my place at the team...look at the new dumy my son Luca has hahaha...trully red and liverpools golie in 20 years!!YNWA


 
Pepe on Facebook.

[Saint Kopite™]

I don't think he cost any transfer fee.

I read somewhere from his agent that he would come to Liverpool as a free transfer.

[Johnny C]

I don't think he cost any transfer fee.

I read somewhere from his agent that he would come to Liverpool as a free transfer.

Roma paid him to go.  No fee paid by LFC

[rocco]

No.

I said he made ~£65K in Italy, which is the equivalent of ~£78K in England  ;  adjusting for tax differences

A 60% cut of £78K = £30K per week

£30K per week for a 32 year old who hasn't been capped for Brazil in over 4 years  ;  so let's not make him out to be a world beater  ;  hell, even Insúa had 4 caps under Maradonna

Other than the keepers who have been demoted from the first XI (Almunia, Doni @ Roma, Given, Cudicini, etc...) Doni now has the distinct honor of being THE ONLY PLAYER IN WORLD FOOTBALL who is making over £30K per week as a dedicated #2 GK.

That's what you call overpaying.

Way i see it is , were paying £1.5m a year insurance to cover Reina.

maybe the pricey but best to fully covered than just partly when your insuring a top top player

[Hazell]

Roma paid him to go.  No fee paid by LFC

Surely that should be taken into consideration when calculating his cost? £3.2 approx for 2 years (I think it works out to). Cavalieri cost around £3m in just the fee alone and we need to make sure we can have someone reliable to cover for Reina if he's out for a significant period of time (I've never seen him play so have no opinion on how good he is).

[TALBERT]

Is Jones being sold then?

[MushyP15]

Is Jones being sold then?

You would have thought so. God knows when and where to though.

[Xabinator]

Have we seen any photos of our new keeper yet? (Liverpool related)  Excuse the ignorance if we have!!

[peachybum]

You would have thought so. God knows when and where to though.

Maybe not. There's a chance that Kenny/Comolli want 3 senior keeps in the squad. I mean if Pepe gets injured or suspended you wouldn't want to see Hansen on the bench for an important game.

[Drake31]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_7051172,00.html doni says happ to come to lfc

[trembles97]

I'm really hoping that this signing doesn't mean that Pepe's surgery didn't go well, and the club are trying to keep it under wraps. Hopefully Kenny just wants a quality back up in case something does happen, not because something has already happened

[Smudgester]

I'm really hoping that this signing doesn't mean that Pepe's surgery didn't go well, and the club are trying to keep it under wraps.

If that was the case I am pretty sure they'd have gone for someone else instead of Doni.

[flashman]

Alexander Doni has today spoken of his delight at sealing a move to Liverpool – and insisted it was an opportunity he could not resist.
 
The Brazilian stopper, who will provide experienced cover for Pepe Reina, admits he already feels at home in L4 and can't wait to get started.
 
"It is an honour to be at a club like Liverpool after leaving Roma," Doni said.
 
"I was happy at Roma but Liverpool is one of those clubs that when the opportunity to go there comes along you have to take it with both hands.
 
"I would like to thank everyone at Roma and the fans for what they did for me during my time there and I am excited about my new challenge at Liverpool.
 
"I am looking forward to playing for the Liverpool fans and it will help I will have my fellow Brazilians Lucas and Fabio Aurelio there to help me settle in and I promise to do my best for the club."

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/i-grabbed-move-with-both-hands

[mattsant]

Good luck Doni.