Author Topic: Doni signs  (Read 21754 times)

Offline Dr Manhattan

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #120 on: July 15, 2011, 08:29:45 PM »
Excellent news. Should come in handy if we buy a player who's deaf.
I trust the King, but if we lose a few more on the trot now - he may have to step aside, and we have to purchase another manager in the middle of the season. If we are relegated, this could be the end of our ambitions to win any title the next 100 years.

Offline steveeastend

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #121 on: July 15, 2011, 08:37:53 PM »
Great signing and probably some will be surprised what will happen this year...

Offline firing squad

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #122 on: July 15, 2011, 08:40:07 PM »
well this is a surprise. why would Roma want to get rid of him in the first place?? He's a quality keeper.
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Offline firing squad

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #123 on: July 15, 2011, 08:41:20 PM »
:hally

Please don't drink and post, it's for your own good.
why? Reina is  number 25 anyway.
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Offline Flicx

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #124 on: July 15, 2011, 08:45:08 PM »
Not an exciting player but alright i guess.

Offline Johnny C

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #125 on: July 15, 2011, 08:52:06 PM »
Damien, DONI Do It !!!  -  Wages Wages Wages  -  IMO This is NOT a Good Bit of Business

First off just want to say that I am glad that we have a proper back-up in here for Pepe.  Guy could use some rest.  Doni should be a marked improvement to Brad Jones who IMHO was either the worst or 2nd worst signing last season (JCole being the other).  Roma fans that I know aren't the biggest fans of Doni, saying he's not all that good, but not all that bad either.  However, to a man they are all ecstatic about getting his wages off the books @ Roma.

Anyway...  Doni's comments the other week about not wanting to take a 60% salary haircut (i.e. Comolli's initial offer), piqued my interest into how much this guy was actually racking up @ Roma as their back-up.
Quote
Doni...
"I have only received an official offer from Liverpool, but I could not accept those conditions. I would have had my salary cut by 60%.  After signing a five-year contract extension with Roma in 2008 and having given a knee for Roma's cause, I am unwilling to give away money."
After a little digging, I found the following @ La Gazzetta della Sport which shows Roma's players' net take home pay for the '10/'11 season:
Doni @ Outrageous Wages
So that €2.3M figure is for take home pay (i.e. after taxes)
Before taxes that equates to €4.0M per year (assuming a 43% Italian tax-rate)
That equals €77K per week
Or in sterling terms, Roma was on the hook to pay Doni roughly £65K per week


Wow!!

So here's where tax differences between the various countries causes difficulties for English Clubs.

With the higher tax-rate in Britain (50%), if Doni was going to be on the same take-home wages, Comolli & JHenry would have to pay out €4.6M per year (as opposed to the €4.0M that Roma was paying out).  In British terms that's ~£4.05M per year (or £78K per week).

£78K per week here @ Liverpool...  just to keep Doni on the same take home wages that he had @ Roma.

Now I don't mind anyone in any profession trying to maximize their earnings.  More power to ya...  but £78K per week for a back-up keeper just ain't gonna happen.

It's no wonder that Comolli led off negotiations with a figure 60% less (~£30K per wk).

Even £30K per wk for an experienced back-up keeper seems very aggressive when you consider that Brad Friedel (still one of the better Prem keepers) is on for £30-40K per wk.

Anyway, because of all this I am coming to the conclusion that:
  • Even if we were paying Doni @ a 60% haircut @ £30K per week, we would be waaaaay OVER PAYING for our new back-up keeper
  • Roma is very likely contributing A HEFTY AMOUNT to Doni's wages (after all it's a big difference between Comolli's initial bid of £30K and the £78K per week that would make Doni whole)
  • To make the switch to Liverpool palpable for Doni, we had to offer an extension in years to the existing 2 year deal he had remaining @ Roma ('12/'13 season).  We likely made it sweeter by an additional 1-2 years ('14/'15 season)


IMO, this is not a good deal.  There just had to be better options out there for Pepe's friggin' back-up especially when you put it in context of other deals that have been made this summer for keepers who have at least as much skill as doni and are on @ lower wages (i.e. Ruffier, Douchez!!!, Friedel, etc....   hell, even Scott Carson)


Aside:
Comolli now has to change hats and do this same type of deal with regards to JCole.  We gotta pray that JCole is willing to move the Mrs. to Abu Dhabi where they can take up his wages no problem.  Otherwise, like Roma, we'll be on the hook paying a good chunk of his wages for years to come.

All this stuff matters, because like Roma with Doni, the money that we are going to be on the hook for to support JCole @ another Club could be better spent somewhere else.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 10:25:28 AM by Johnny C »

Offline ScholesyLFC

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #126 on: July 15, 2011, 08:52:31 PM »
why? Reina is  number 25 anyway.

Well don't I feel like a pillock, that'll teach me to drink and post because obviously your right  :-X

I still don't understand the signing ...
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Offline redplanet

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #127 on: July 15, 2011, 08:57:08 PM »
Welcome to Liverpool Doni and may your stay here be a successful one.
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Offline John C

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #128 on: July 15, 2011, 08:59:06 PM »
Fucking hell, I thought we'd signed an Osmond for a minute.

Should of gone for Given instead
It was nearly on the cards a few months back mate  ;)

Online Saint Kopite™

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #129 on: July 15, 2011, 08:59:24 PM »

I like your posts mate, but I think you are reading way too much into it.

When he meant by 60 % paycut, I think he meant the 60 % of the 77 K Euros Per Week he gets at Roma. Personally, I think he would be on around 30-40 K Per Week.
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Offline deester

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #130 on: July 15, 2011, 09:02:19 PM »
Welcome to LFC.  :) :)

Offline Torpedo Tommy

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #131 on: July 15, 2011, 09:03:30 PM »
Damien, DONI Do It !!!  -  Wages Wages Wages  -  IMO This is NOT a Good Bit of Business

First off just want to say that I am glad that we have a proper back-up in here for Pepe.  Guy could use some rest.  Doni should be a marked improvement to Brad Jones who IMHO was either the worst or 2nd worst signing last season (JCole being the other).  Roma fans that I know aren't the biggest fans of Doni, saying he's not all that good, but not all that bad either.  However, to a man they are all ecstatic about getting his wages off the books @ Roma.

Anyway...  Doni's comments the other week about not wanting to take a 60% salary haircut (i.e. Comolli's initial offer), piqued my interest into how much this guy was actually racking up @ Roma as their back-up.After a little digging, I found the following @ La Gazzetta della Sport which shows Roma's players' net take home pay for the '10/'11 season:
Doni @ Outrageous Wages
So that €2.3M figure is for take home pay (i.e. after taxes)
Before taxes that equates to €4.0M per year (assuming a 43% Italian tax-rate)
That equals €77K per week
Or in sterling terms, Roma was on the hook to pay Doni roughly £65K per week

Wow!!

So here's where tax differences between the various countries causes difficulties for English Clubs.

With the higher tax-rate in Britain (50%), if Doni was going to be on the same take-home wages, Comolli & JHenry would have to pay out €4.6M per year (as opposed to the €4.0M that Roma was paying out).  In British terms that's ~£4.05M per year (or £78K per week).

£78K per week here @ Liverpool...  just to keep Doni on the same take home wages that he had @ Roma.

Now I don't mind anyone in any profession trying to maximize their earnings.  More power to ya...  but £78K per week for a back-up keeper just ain't gonna happen.

It's no wonder that Comolli led off negotiations with a figure 60% less (~£30K per wk).

£30K per wk for an experienced back-up keeper sounds about right doesn't it... And it actually seems very aggressive when you consider that Brad Friedel (still one of the better Prem keepers) is on for £30-40K per wk.

Anyway, because of all this I am coming to the conclusion that:
  • Even if we were paying Doni @ a 60% haircut @ £30K per week, we would be waaaaay OVER PAYING for our new back-up keeper
  • Roma is very likely contributing A HEFTY AMOUNT to Doni's wages (after all it's a big difference between Comolli's initial bid of £30K and the £78K per week that would make Doni whole)
  • To make the switch to Liverpool palpable for Doni, we had to offer an extension in years to the existing 2 year deal he had remaining @ Roma ('12/'13 season).  We likely made it sweeter by an additional 1-2 years ('14/'15 season)

IMO, this is not a good deal.  There just had to be better options out there for Pepe's friggin' back-up especially when you put it in context of other deals that have been made this summer for keepers who have at least as much skill as doni and are on @ lower wages (i.e. Ruffier, Douchez!!!, Friedel, etc....   hell, even Scott Carson)


Aside:
Comolli now has to change hats and do this same type of deal with regards to JCole.  We gotta pray that JCole is willing to move the Mrs. to Abu Dhabi where they can take up his wages no problem.  Otherwise, like Roma, we'll be on the hook paying a good chunk of his wages for years to come.

All this stuff matters, because like Roma with Doni, the money that we are going to be on the hook for to support JCole @ another Club could be better spent somewhere else.

Oooo! Shit! :o

Offline Johnny C

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #132 on: July 15, 2011, 09:21:17 PM »
When he meant by 60 % paycut, I think he meant the 60 % of the 77 K Euros Per Week he gets at Roma. Personally, I think he would be on around 30-40 K Per Week.
Hi SK.

I totally agree with the part in red.  That was exactly my point.  The €77K per week @ a 43% Italian tax-rate that he was on @ Roma is equal to £78K per week @ a 50% British tax-rate, just for Doni to take home the same amount.

€77K per week in Italy = £78K per week in England  ;  it's all tax-rate differences

IMO, no one in their right mind would take a 60% cut in their salary no matter what their profession, and Doni is no different.

So I assume that we are paying +£30K per week and Roma is making up a good chunk of the difference.  Unfortunately though, I bet to get him to come here that we had to put some added sweetener in there in terms of added years.  Not the best bit of biz IMO, but I hope he succeeds and brings a good presence to the Club.  Otherwise Comolli just added another aging player who is on @ outrageous wages and a long-term contract to just sit the bench, the exact opposite thing that he was supposed to accomplish.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 09:31:12 PM by Johnny C »

Offline ztommyy

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #133 on: July 15, 2011, 09:36:50 PM »
Fck me where is my salary? :D Great sign anyway.
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Offline astowell1

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #134 on: July 15, 2011, 10:12:08 PM »
Good solid back up, onward!

Offline Cesar

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #135 on: July 15, 2011, 10:16:05 PM »
Welcome to Liverpool, the Brazillian Sieb Dijkstra

Offline Digger2God

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #136 on: July 15, 2011, 10:19:33 PM »
Welcome to the greatest club in the world! No offense, but hope we are never forced to use you  ;D
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Offline El_Pistolero7

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #137 on: July 15, 2011, 10:24:27 PM »
He looks a decent keeper doni

Offline Anywhichwayucan

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #138 on: July 15, 2011, 10:28:43 PM »
He looks a decent keeper doni

We doni-d him as he will never displace Pep.
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Offline Red Emperor

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #139 on: July 15, 2011, 10:28:50 PM »
welcome doni enjoy

Offline ziggyy

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #140 on: July 15, 2011, 11:03:58 PM »
I'm going to suggest that we may be preparing for the day that pepe might leave...

Face it, if we don't get into the CL next year, he'll prob get better offers from elsewhere.

By then, it might be too late to attract a quality keeper and Gulacsi may not be ready yet.

Online helmboy_nige

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #141 on: July 15, 2011, 11:37:44 PM »
Welcome to the club Doni

Offline dmn

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #142 on: July 16, 2011, 12:37:30 AM »
Damien, DONI Do It !!!  -  Wages Wages Wages  -  IMO This is NOT a Good Bit of Business

First off just want to say that I am glad that we have a proper back-up in here for Pepe.  Guy could use some rest.  Doni should be a marked improvement to Brad Jones who IMHO was either the worst or 2nd worst signing last season (JCole being the other).  Roma fans that I know aren't the biggest fans of Doni, saying he's not all that good, but not all that bad either.  However, to a man they are all ecstatic about getting his wages off the books @ Roma.

Anyway...  Doni's comments the other week about not wanting to take a 60% salary haircut (i.e. Comolli's initial offer), piqued my interest into how much this guy was actually racking up @ Roma as their back-up.After a little digging, I found the following @ La Gazzetta della Sport which shows Roma's players' net take home pay for the '10/'11 season:
Doni @ Outrageous Wages
So that €2.3M figure is for take home pay (i.e. after taxes)
Before taxes that equates to €4.0M per year (assuming a 43% Italian tax-rate)
That equals €77K per week
Or in sterling terms, Roma was on the hook to pay Doni roughly £65K per week

Wow!!

So here's where tax differences between the various countries causes difficulties for English Clubs.

With the higher tax-rate in Britain (50%), if Doni was going to be on the same take-home wages, Comolli & JHenry would have to pay out €4.6M per year (as opposed to the €4.0M that Roma was paying out).  In British terms that's ~£4.05M per year (or £78K per week).

£78K per week here @ Liverpool...  just to keep Doni on the same take home wages that he had @ Roma.

Now I don't mind anyone in any profession trying to maximize their earnings.  More power to ya...  but £78K per week for a back-up keeper just ain't gonna happen.

It's no wonder that Comolli led off negotiations with a figure 60% less (~£30K per wk).

£30K per wk for an experienced back-up keeper sounds about right doesn't it... And it actually seems very aggressive when you consider that Brad Friedel (still one of the better Prem keepers) is on for £30-40K per wk.

Anyway, because of all this I am coming to the conclusion that:
  • Even if we were paying Doni @ a 60% haircut @ £30K per week, we would be waaaaay OVER PAYING for our new back-up keeper
  • Roma is very likely contributing A HEFTY AMOUNT to Doni's wages (after all it's a big difference between Comolli's initial bid of £30K and the £78K per week that would make Doni whole)
  • To make the switch to Liverpool palpable for Doni, we had to offer an extension in years to the existing 2 year deal he had remaining @ Roma ('12/'13 season).  We likely made it sweeter by an additional 1-2 years ('14/'15 season)

IMO, this is not a good deal.  There just had to be better options out there for Pepe's friggin' back-up especially when you put it in context of other deals that have been made this summer for keepers who have at least as much skill as doni and are on @ lower wages (i.e. Ruffier, Douchez!!!, Friedel, etc....   hell, even Scott Carson)


Aside:
Comolli now has to change hats and do this same type of deal with regards to JCole.  We gotta pray that JCole is willing to move the Mrs. to Abu Dhabi where they can take up his wages no problem.  Otherwise, like Roma, we'll be on the hook paying a good chunk of his wages for years to come.

All this stuff matters, because like Roma with Doni, the money that we are going to be on the hook for to support JCole @ another Club could be better spent somewhere else.
This is literally the only sensible post made on the topic of Doni on these boards.
+ the fact that there is nothing in his goalkeeping past to suggest that he's actually an improvement over Jones, Cavalieri or even Itandje (lol) who had about as good history.

Roma fans are about as "sad" to losi Doni as people in here were when Salif Diao left and will be once Poulsen leaves.

Hope you prove me wrong Doni, but the ppl talking up this "capture" :cripes:

Offline MolbyLovesGravy

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #143 on: July 16, 2011, 12:52:35 AM »
I find it highly unbelievable that any reporting of what wages a player is on is going to report the after-tax rather than the actual wage paid. That makes zero sense, and would rely on the writer sitting there with a calculator, and considering the various ways to divert money prior to tax would probably be inaccurate anyway.
Think about every article you have ever read that talked about the wages a player was on. Was even one time that figure not the agreed wage, not what happens to get transferred into the guys account?
The very 1st thing they owners said was the wages did not reflect the quality of the squad. DC is hardly going to go out and pay silly money to a player to sit on the bench and replicate the Joe Cole/Jova fiascos. The deal broke down and was dead because of wages and the break through came when Roma negotiated with him (in other words the money to make him happy was not ours).
He isn't a replacement to Reina (not good enough) he is a replacement to Jones (far better). He played 160 plus games in Serie A and 16 last season, even though he was a back-up. The guy is ready to fill in far better than the other options we have, at least for the next couple of seasons.
Have some trust in the people we have behind the scenes and don't try and create dramatic problems that just aren't there.
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Offline dmn

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #144 on: July 16, 2011, 02:21:09 AM »
I find it highly unbelievable that any reporting of what wages a player is on is going to report the after-tax rather than the actual wage paid. That makes zero sense, and would rely on the writer sitting there with a calculator, and considering the various ways to divert money prior to tax would probably be inaccurate anyway.
Think about every article you have ever read that talked about the wages a player was on. Was even one time that figure not the agreed wage, not what happens to get transferred into the guys account?
The very 1st thing they owners said was the wages did not reflect the quality of the squad. DC is hardly going to go out and pay silly money to a player to sit on the bench and replicate the Joe Cole/Jova fiascos. The deal broke down and was dead because of wages and the break through came when Roma negotiated with him (in other words the money to make him happy was not ours).
He isn't a replacement to Reina (not good enough) he is a replacement to Jones (far better). He played 160 plus games in Serie A and 16 last season, even though he was a back-up. The guy is ready to fill in far better than the other options we have, at least for the next couple of seasons.
Have some trust in the people we have behind the scenes and don't try and create dramatic problems that just aren't there.
No, you're wrong. It's been stated over and over that Doni was on 4M+ euro wages at Roma and they are celebrating that they're rid of him.
Roma paid a whole bunch of money to land him from Brazil and he failed to make the spot his own. And Roma are trying to find new keepers, since the guy that Doni was backup to is also considered as not good enough.

Offline shook

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #145 on: July 16, 2011, 02:46:06 AM »
I admit to not having watched either player much, but at the very least, Doni is a much more experienced player than Jones.
Jones, per wiki, has played 100 matches in the past decade, only 57 for Middlesborough.
Doni, played 132 alone for Roma, ~210 club matches total.

Also, think Jones is a career backup while at least Doni has plenty of experience being the perceived (and actual)#1 keeper


Offline Mr Kipling

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #146 on: July 16, 2011, 03:01:34 AM »
Sky Sports News understands the fee to be in the region of £345m ...

They'll be gutted when they find out we signed him on a Boswell.
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Offline MushyP15

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #147 on: July 16, 2011, 03:06:22 AM »
Can't really see the point in this - is he much better than Jones? Plus, will it block Gulacsi - who, by all appearances is a very promising goalkeeper - from ever breaking through?

Good luck to him either way, welcome to Liverpool. If you're happy to sit on the bench bar a few Carling Cup games, so am I.

I have no idea, but Jones is and has always been a pretty shocking back up to Pepe. Has never, ever, filled me with confidence. I fully expect him to be one of the chaps out of the door and good luck to him if this is the case.

Welcome to LFC Doni, you could just be about to experience some of the most exciting years in our recent history.

This is literally the only sensible post made on the topic of Doni on these boards.
+ the fact that there is nothing in his goalkeeping past to suggest that he's actually an improvement over Jones, Cavalieri or even Itandje (lol) who had about as good history.

Roma fans are about as "sad" to losi Doni as people in here were when Salif Diao left and will be once Poulsen leaves.

Hope you prove me wrong Doni, but the ppl talking up this "capture" :cripes:

And as an aside, the one counter argument to Johnny C's very reasoned post is that all the keepers he's mentioned have moved to be first choice, Friedel included, regardless of their wages. My view is that there is faith from within LFC in Gulacsi, and that to keep him we need him to have games rather than be Pepe's back up. Otherwise I would see absolutely no reason to sign ANY new back up keeper.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 03:14:15 AM by MushyP15 »
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Offline Didi_ram

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #148 on: July 16, 2011, 03:07:23 AM »
Welcome Doni.Quality back-up signing.
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Offline Rusty

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #149 on: July 16, 2011, 04:10:10 AM »
Can't really see the point in this - is he much better than Jones? Plus, will it block Gulacsi - who, by all appearances is a very promising goalkeeper - from ever breaking through?

Good luck to him either way, welcome to Liverpool. If you're happy to sit on the bench bar a few Carling Cup games, so am I.

I think the idea is actually to help with Gulacsi's development, by providing cover for Pepe it means he can go out on a season's loan to get experience and game time, without which he would stagnate.

Sure there would be plenty of decent teams who would fancy taking him on loan for a year.
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Offline Redstafarian

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #150 on: July 16, 2011, 04:11:20 AM »
Damien, DONI Do It !!!  -  Wages Wages Wages  -  IMO This is NOT a Good Bit of Business

First off just want to say that I am glad that we have a proper back-up in here for Pepe.  Guy could use some rest.  Doni should be a marked improvement to Brad Jones who IMHO was either the worst or 2nd worst signing last season (JCole being the other).  Roma fans that I know aren't the biggest fans of Doni, saying he's not all that good, but not all that bad either.  However, to a man they are all ecstatic about getting his wages off the books @ Roma.

Anyway...  Doni's comments the other week about not wanting to take a 60% salary haircut (i.e. Comolli's initial offer), piqued my interest into how much this guy was actually racking up @ Roma as their back-up.After a little digging, I found the following @ La Gazzetta della Sport which shows Roma's players' net take home pay for the '10/'11 season:
Doni @ Outrageous Wages
So that €2.3M figure is for take home pay (i.e. after taxes)
Before taxes that equates to €4.0M per year (assuming a 43% Italian tax-rate)
That equals €77K per week
Or in sterling terms, Roma was on the hook to pay Doni roughly £65K per week

Wow!!

So here's where tax differences between the various countries causes difficulties for English Clubs.

With the higher tax-rate in Britain (50%), if Doni was going to be on the same take-home wages, Comolli & JHenry would have to pay out €4.6M per year (as opposed to the €4.0M that Roma was paying out).  In British terms that's ~£4.05M per year (or £78K per week).

£78K per week here @ Liverpool...  just to keep Doni on the same take home wages that he had @ Roma.

Now I don't mind anyone in any profession trying to maximize their earnings.  More power to ya...  but £78K per week for a back-up keeper just ain't gonna happen.

It's no wonder that Comolli led off negotiations with a figure 60% less (~£30K per wk).

£30K per wk for an experienced back-up keeper sounds about right doesn't it... And it actually seems very aggressive when you consider that Brad Friedel (still one of the better Prem keepers) is on for £30-40K per wk.

Anyway, because of all this I am coming to the conclusion that:
  • Even if we were paying Doni @ a 60% haircut @ £30K per week, we would be waaaaay OVER PAYING for our new back-up keeper
  • Roma is very likely contributing A HEFTY AMOUNT to Doni's wages (after all it's a big difference between Comolli's initial bid of £30K and the £78K per week that would make Doni whole)
  • To make the switch to Liverpool palpable for Doni, we had to offer an extension in years to the existing 2 year deal he had remaining @ Roma ('12/'13 season).  We likely made it sweeter by an additional 1-2 years ('14/'15 season)

IMO, this is not a good deal.  There just had to be better options out there for Pepe's friggin' back-up especially when you put it in context of other deals that have been made this summer for keepers who have at least as much skill as doni and are on @ lower wages (i.e. Ruffier, Douchez!!!, Friedel, etc....   hell, even Scott Carson)


Aside:
Comolli now has to change hats and do this same type of deal with regards to JCole.  We gotta pray that JCole is willing to move the Mrs. to Abu Dhabi where they can take up his wages no problem.  Otherwise, like Roma, we'll be on the hook paying a good chunk of his wages for years to come.

All this stuff matters, because like Roma with Doni, the money that we are going to be on the hook for to support JCole @ another Club could be better spent somewhere else.

ok I was with you until you mentioned Carson.
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Offline srinath333

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #151 on: July 16, 2011, 05:53:04 AM »
what happened to the policy of signing players of a certain age group

Offline Acaustiq

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #152 on: July 16, 2011, 07:29:04 AM »
Damien, DONI Do It !!!  -  Wages Wages Wages  -  IMO This is NOT a Good Bit of Business

First off just want to say that I am glad that we have a proper back-up in here for Pepe.  Guy could use some rest.  Doni should be a marked improvement to Brad Jones who IMHO was either the worst or 2nd worst signing last season (JCole being the other).  Roma fans that I know aren't the biggest fans of Doni, saying he's not all that good, but not all that bad either.  However, to a man they are all ecstatic about getting his wages off the books @ Roma.

He turned the transfer down initially because we were only offering 60% of his current wages.

Roma paid him off (there's talk it was a 50/50 split between us and them) and now here he is, so assuming he's on £25k (maybe we budged a bit on that) I don't see how you can get a better deal than that for a backup keeper of his calibre.
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Online ryatnalkar

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #153 on: July 16, 2011, 07:45:29 AM »
He turned the transfer down initially because we were only offering 60% of his current wages.

Roma paid him off (there's talk it was a 50/50 split between us and them) and now here he is, so assuming he's on £25k (maybe we budged a bit on that) I don't see how you can get a better deal than that for a backup keeper of his calibre.

Thats about right.

He was on 78k pounds equivalent. We approached and we said 30k pounds and come sit on our bench. He probably said no can do, as it didnt make any financial sense. Then Roma must have told, this is your other 30k pounds per week, we know you are getting only 60k as compared to 78k here, but if you decide to stay, you won't start a single game and we'll make the fans turn against you so bad, you ll have to hide in your house, or something to that effect.

Anyway, who says Friedel is on 30k per week? Any sources? Plus, I do not know how good is this guy actually, although if he has 10 Brazil caps and some 200 for Roma, I am sure he is better than/at the same level to any backup keeper we have had for a long time.

Damien, DO it, it sounds like a decent deal. (Oh Plus, we might even get some Fee back for Jones, Gulacsi might perform well going out and get sold for 4 to 5M next year if he is too good and can't sit on our bench or we get someone to sit on our bench for free when we move Doni on.)

Offline Johnny C

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #154 on: July 16, 2011, 07:51:58 AM »
ok I was with you until you mentioned Carson.
;D

I find it highly unbelievable that any reporting of what wages a player is on is going to report the after-tax rather than the actual wage paid. That makes zero sense, and would rely on the writer sitting there with a calculator, and considering the various ways to divert money prior to tax would probably be inaccurate anyway.  Think about every article you have ever read that talked about the wages a player was on. Was even one time that figure not the agreed wage, not what happens to get transferred into the guys account?

The very 1st thing they owners said was the wages did not reflect the quality of the squad. DC is hardly going to go out and pay silly money to a player to sit on the bench and replicate the Joe Cole/Jova fiascos. The deal broke down and was dead because of wages and the break through came when Roma negotiated with him (in other words the money to make him happy was not ours).
Actually when players/Clubs negotiated in Spain and Italy, most of that negotiation used to be centered around their "after tax pay" and not the headline number.  At least that's how it used to be up until a couple of years ago.

It was a function of Spain for many years having a 24% tax-rate for high-wage earning foreign players, while every player in Italy was paying 43%.  And by talking in terms of "after tax pay" it allowed the players/Clubs in these different countries to talk apples-to-apples.  It took a worldwide recession for the Spanish citizens to finally figure out that it probably wasn't fair that they were paying taxes north of 40% while foreign players like CRonaldo and Diego Forlan and Kun Aguero were only hit @ a 24% rate on bazillionaire salaries.

Anyway, the press in both Spain and Italy are fairly accustomed to reporting the after-tax figures for players.

Check out that site @ La Gazzetta della Sport and go through the various figures.  They all check out for the various teams from Totti's to Ibra's to Doni's.  For example, it is fairly well reported that Totti signed for €8.9M for '09/'10 and €8.6M for '10/'11...  and that €8.6M taxed @ 43% is equal to €4.9M in take home pay, which is accurately reflected in that work by La Gazzetta della Sport that I referenced.  Doni's checks out, too.


I surely hope that Roma are on the hook to pay a large chunk of Doni's salary, because even if it's Liverpool paying £30K per week and Roma picking up the rest (or paid him to leave with a lump-sum payment), it really doesn't look like a decent bit of business by Comolli when you consider that guys like Douchez and Friedel who are better than Doni are making £30-40K and are actually starting for their new respective clubs.  If £30-40K per week is starter money for many decent Clubs, surely £30-40K doesn't represent good value for a 31 yr old back-up who many people believe is past it.

To me what is even more perplexing is that this is exactly the type of deal that DC was not supposed to be making, but all the numbers are suggesting that he did.


With this move, it's clear that Kenny wanted significant experience in that #2 back-up GK role.  But if that's the case IMO there are plenty of available options out there who (1) are just as good if not better than Doni, (2) have just as much experience as Doni and (3) are on far fewer wages  (i.e. Nigeria's Enyeama, Saint-Ιtienne's Janot, Denmark's Thomas Sorensen, and free agent Timo Hildebrand all spring immediately to mind as available & cheaper options who have significant experience).

Anyway...  I hope that the various Roma forums who are rejoicing over Doni's departure are wrong, and that he comes good for us and can give Pepe a needed breather from time-to-time.  However, on the face of it we had to have been able to get better bang-for-the-buck with another experienced back-up keeper.

DC & Kenny most certainly upgraded our #2 GK in terms of quality.  It was a glaring hole and needed to happen.  However, it seems like we are significantly overpaying for the position (particularly if we are on the hook for several years).

This Doni deal is reminiscent for me of how I felt when we signed JCole :  Not the best bit of business, but I hope it works out for us & him.


Aside:
In case people were wondering, Roma are cleaning house with all of their keepers.  Too much £££€€€$$$ being spent on them all last year.

They just brought in 26 yr-old Curci from Sampdoria to be their #2.  Guy is 5 yrs younger than Doni, already has international experience and is on €17K per week wages (vs. the €77K per week that Doni was on @ Roma).  A €60K per week difference for back-up keepers !  That's what you call a good bit of business.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 10:53:16 AM by Johnny C »

Online ryatnalkar

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #155 on: July 16, 2011, 08:11:16 AM »
;D
Actually when players/Clubs negotiated in Spain and Italy, most of that negotiation used to be centered around their "after tax pay" and not the headline number.  At least that's how it used to be up until a couple of years ago.

It was a function of Spain for many years having a 24% tax-rate for high-wage earning foreign players, while every player in Italy was paying 43%.  And by talking in terms of "after tax pay" it allowed the players/Clubs to talk apples-to-apples.  It took a worldwide recession for the Spanish citizens to finally figure out that it probably wasn't fair that they were paying taxes north of 40% while foreign players like CRonaldo and Diego Forlan and Kun Aguero were only hit @ a 24% rate on bazillionaire salaries.

Anyway, the press in both Spain and Italy are fairly accustomed to reporting the after-tax figures for players.

Check out that site @ La Gazzetta della Sport and go through the various figures.  They all check out for the various teams from Totti's to Ibra's to Doni's.  For example, it is fairly well reported that Totti signed for €8.9M for '09/'10 and €8.6M for '10/'11...  and that €8.6M taxed @ 43% is equal to €4.9M in take home pay, which is accurately reflected in that work by La Gazzetta della Sport that I referenced.  Doni's checks out, too.


I surely hope that Roma are on the hook to pay a large chunk of Doni's salary, because even if it's Liverpool paying £30K per week and Roma picking up the rest (or paid him to leave with a lump-sum payment), it really doesn't look like a decent bit of business by Comolli when you consider that guys like Douchez and Friedel who are better than Doni are making £30-40K and are actually starting for their new respective clubs.  If £30-40K per week is starter money for many decent Clubs, surely £30-40K doesn't represent good value for a 31 yr old back-up who many people believe is past it.

To me what is even more perplexing is that this is exactly the type of deal that DC was not supposed to be making, but all the numbers are suggesting that he did.


With this move, it's clear that Kenny wanted significant experience in that #2 back-up GK role.  But if that's the case IMO there are plenty of better options out there who (1) are just as good if not better than Doni, (2) have just as much experience as Doni and (3) are on far fewer wages  (i.e. Nigeria's Enyeama, Saint-Ιtienne's Janot, Denmark's Thomas Sorensen, and free agent Timo Hildebrand all spring immediately to mind as better & cheaper options).

Anyway...  I hope that the various Roma forums who are rejoicing over Doni's departure are wrong, and that he comes good for us and can give Pepe a needed breather from time-to-time.  However, on the face of it we had to have been able to get better bang-for-the-buck with another experienced back-up keeper.

DC & Kenny most certainly upgraded our #2 GK in terms of quality.  It was a glaring hole and needed to happen.  However, it seems like we are significantly overpaying for the position (particularly if we are on the hook for several years).

This Doni deal is reminiscent for me of how I felt when we signed JCole :  Not the best bit of business, but I hope it works out for us & him.


Aside:
In case people were wondering, Roma are clearing house with all of their keepers.  Too much £££€€€$$$ being spent on them all last year.

They just brought in 26 yr-old Curci from Sampdoria to be their #2.  Guy is 5 yrs younger than Doni, already has international experience and is on €17K per week wages (vs. the €77K per week that Doni was on @ Roma).  A €60K per week difference for back-up keepers !  That's what you call a good bit of business.

Not attacking you, in fact, I think your posts are a good read. But in general, how much do you reckon Gulacsi is on? If Ngog is on 40k per week, as I read that is what Sunderland could not pay him, defo Gulacsi will be 20 to 25k per week? Doni will be on something similar IMO, with Gulacsi going away and with a chance of improving his market value. In that respect alone, if and if (IFF) Doni performs decently, I think we have a good deal. Anyway 30k per week for 2 years isnt all that astronomical, plus I dont think we are paying any signing on Bonuses (All that will be provided by Roma I guess) so this deal isnt half as bad as the Joe Cole deal, I reckon.

Offline Johnny C

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #156 on: July 16, 2011, 08:45:17 AM »
Not attacking you, in fact, I think your posts are a good read. But in general, how much do you reckon Gulacsi is on? If Ngog is on 40k per week, as I read that is what Sunderland could not pay him, defo Gulacsi will be 20 to 25k per week? Doni will be on something similar IMO, with Gulacsi going away and with a chance of improving his market value. In that respect alone, if and if (IFF) Doni performs decently, I think we have a good deal. Anyway 30k per week for 2 years isnt all that astronomical, plus I dont think we are paying any signing on Bonuses (All that will be provided by Roma I guess) so this deal isnt half as bad as the Joe Cole deal, I reckon.
Thanks.

RE:   Gulacsi....  I really have no idea.  But we can ballpark the figure.

I will say this though....  Even Insua @ £15K per week is making £800K per year.  And that is a BOATLOAD of money even for professional football players.  When you start getting away from the Top 6 of the Prem or go to any other league, that £15K per week is pretty solid money even by European football standards.

Anyway, it's tough to see Gulacsi on for more than Insua.  If I had to guess I would say he's on for £7-10K tops.  Even @ £7K he'd be making half a million dollars per year, which seems outrageous for a 21 yr old footballer who plays League 1 football.

When you put this Doni deal in context of 28 yr old Vincent Enyeama's (who lit up the World Cup with Nigeria) recent deal @ Lille it is tough to say we are getting good value for our new #2 who will rarely play.

Enyeama who is younger and seems much better than Doni just signed on to be Lille's #2.  Lille were looking for the exact same thing that Kenny seemed to be wanting in a #2 GK.... Significant Experience.

Anyway, Lille signed Enyeama for £17K per week on a 3yr deal.  A figure that seems about right for an experienced back-up.  That still equates to €1,000,000 per year for Enyeama.  A BOATLOAD of money.  And yet it's a far far cry from what we are likely over-paying for Doni.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 08:48:44 AM by Johnny C »

Offline kopindian

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #157 on: July 16, 2011, 08:48:41 AM »
1.Argument that we are signing a sub keeper is naive as GK is unlike other positions. He has to be similar to Reina in his general style and need to have the quality to step in if reina face a lengthy injury lay off. Fact that he didn't face that till now is not a guarantee that it won't happen in the future.
2. Suppose if he is gonna be contracted till 2015, we can loan out Gulacsi or any other very good keepers we have and save on their wages,earn loan fees,increase their market value etc over next 3 seasons. If one of them turn out to be good enough to challenge reina,then even better. Maybe we can even sell Doni after 3 seasons netting a transfer fee.
All in all a good deal in a needed position. If we had kept Cavalieri,it wouldn't have been needed though.
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Offline Acaustiq

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #158 on: July 16, 2011, 08:49:12 AM »
Aside:
In case people were wondering, Roma are clearing house with all of their keepers.  Too much £££€€€$$$ being spent on them all last year.

They just brought in 26 yr-old Curci from Sampdoria to be their #2.  Guy is 5 yrs younger than Doni, already has international experience and is on €17K per week wages (vs. the €77K per week that Doni was on @ Roma).  A €60K per week difference for back-up keepers !

That's not really an 'aside' you've identified the fundamental problem with backup keepers and thus why this makes quite a bit of sense.

There are five types of backup goalkeepers at this level;

1. Young, talented keepers brought in for money - Cavalieri, they're good and they know it, eventually they want playing time and leave, giving you a problem.

2. Young, talented keepers brought through the academy - Gulacsi, they're good an they know it, eventually they want playing time and leave, giving you a problem.

3. Young, shit keepers, brought in for money - Padelli/Jones, well, they're shit aren't they, eventually the club realises it has to get rid, giving you a problem.

4. Veteran, quality keepers who are displaced by a new signing - Dudek/Cudicini, they're either content to sit on the bench on big money (not really an option for us) or they eventually want out, giving you a problem.

5. Veteran, quality keepers who are displaced by a new signing and are looking for a new club - Doni/Dudek, they understand the situation and don't leave you with a hole to fill every one or two seasons.

Doni comes in the knowledge he's backup and will ultimately allow us to realise an asset in Gulacsi; having a 21 year old full international sat on the books when he's not needed is surely what represents bad business?
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Offline crasher1in

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Re: Doni signs
« Reply #159 on: July 16, 2011, 08:51:38 AM »
Nice one, just so lucas doesn’t feel away from home.