Author Topic: Reds agree Downing fee  (Read 52118 times)

Offline scatman

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1200 on: July 14, 2011, 02:02:40 PM »
ok

Downing is faster than Ashley Young. This was confirmed by someone last month on here.

Skrtel is our best centre back (aimed at Fordy) he's the most consistent, quickest, least injury prone and top statistically (as proven by Anfield Index) in that position.

some guy said on here that Skrtel is going the other way
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Offline finchy1972

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1201 on: July 14, 2011, 02:05:05 PM »
With the signing we've made and now downing we have got one help of a team , with the emphasis being on team, I can't wait for the start of the season.
Whatever we are , we are , whatever we will be is yet to be written .

Online SerbianScouser

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1202 on: July 14, 2011, 02:09:31 PM »
Can't hear this at work - what is Marcotti saying bout the Downing deal? Its at the start...

http://soccernet-assets.espn.go.com/feature?id=252531

That he brings options even as a wingback in 3-5-2

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1203 on: July 14, 2011, 02:09:42 PM »
Can't hear this at work - what is Marcotti saying bout the Downing deal? Its at the start...

http://soccernet-assets.espn.go.com/feature?id=252531

He said:

- Kenny likes a number of different options
- Carroll won't be a week in week out player
- Downing provides this as he can play on the left or on the right or down the middle or at left back or as a wingback

Hislop said it wasn't an exciting signing and won't set Anfield alight but Kenny's bringing in young English talent and he's a better man manager than many give him credt for. He agreed with Marcotti that Kenny's looking for as many different options as possible.
"My coach told me to warm up just before the break. He told me I was going to take care of Kaka. I didn't think it was possible to turn things around but in the dressing room at halftime Rafa Benitez was calm - "We are Liverpool FC, we have so many fans, we are not going to be slaughtered. If we can score a goal quickly we push on from there.""

Online Nessy76

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1204 on: July 14, 2011, 02:13:47 PM »
It seems the lack of British influence is becoming the reason for all our problems in recent years.

The spirit of the squad was poor because we had disgraceful owners and a shit manager, had our squad been primarily made up of British players at the time I don't think ti would have made a difference.

It would have made a big difference. Carlton Cole for Torres. Scott Parker for Mascherano. Joey Barton for Alonso. Carson for Reina.

Offline Fuzion6

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1205 on: July 14, 2011, 02:14:29 PM »
He said:

- Kenny likes a number of different options
- Carroll won't be a week in week out player
- Downing provides this as he can play on the left or on the right or down the middle or at left back or as a wingback

Hislop said it wasn't an exciting signing and won't set Anfield alight but Kenny's bringing in young English talent and he's a better man manager than many give him credt for. He agreed with Marcotti that Kenny's looking for as many different options as possible.
Thanks a lot. Carroll not a week in / week out player? I guess Dirk will be getting some games then. Wonder why they say this though.

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1206 on: July 14, 2011, 02:14:47 PM »
We must face a very simple reality. There are now 4 teams in the Premiership that have greater revenues than us. That means they can spend more on their team and breakeven. As we have to spend less but beat them if we want to be in the CL let alone win the Premiership we have to be smarter than them.

Now in reality that is not always as difficult as you might think.

For instance if we sell Torres to Chelsea for 50m quid they will take 50m of their revenues and hand them to us. We will then have more revenues than Chelsea so we will be able to spend more on our team than his. He will have Torres but the 50m he invested in his transfer fee will erode to zero over the next 5 years by which time Torres will be 32. And Chelsea still need to pay him 180k a week to perform on the pitch which may or may not bring them value. We could afford to pay a player 180k a week better than them as we have more revenues and we have additional revenues to spend even further on our squad.

As you rightly point out what we should be doing is buying an Alexis Sanchez or some similar player at say 23 so that we can afford to sell our best players near their peak and get the best players into replace them. It maybe better to sell say Suarez at 28 for 40m so we can get a 40m young superstar into replace him rather than wait until he is in decline at 29/30 and only get 15m which will not buy us the best replacement.

I agree with most of that, but bear in mind Torres wanted to leave and had he stayed it would not have prevented us signing Suarez.  We do not know what may have happened with Carroll - it could be we may have tried to buy him anyway, albeit for less, or that he may have become a summer target instead.

Another point is that we're clearly going after players for whom there is not a mad scramble for.  Someone mentioned early that Downing (in essence) was not a good signing as none of the other 'big' clubs were in for him.  As you rightly say, competing against clubs with superior revenue, plus European competition to offer, is always going to be difficult.  We looked at Young and we bid for Jones but ultimately lost them both to the Scum.  But I'm sure we can all agree that spending wisely trumps spending big every time.

Where I was trying to highlight those taking moneyball literally is that there seems to be a belief now that we will sell players regardless of their contribution, just because they meet the criteria to be sold.  What I would say is that it would be idiocy to sell a key player on that criteria alone, ie at his peak and being offered maximum money.

Where moneyball does make sense is that, once we have a successful team that we know will win trophies because it is greater than the sum of its parts, then selling a player at his peak knowing we will have a quality replacement lined up is sensible because it wont damage our competitiveness.  We survived selling Rush and we survived selling Aldridge as examples.

The key, as ever, is for us to actually start bagging some silverware.  Once we are seen to be able to match rivals who are spending more than us and who are padding their squads with superstars who can't even make the bench, then we will come back into our own as a club and as a preferred destination for players.
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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1207 on: July 14, 2011, 02:15:46 PM »
Thanks a lot. Carroll not a week in / week out player? I guess Dirk will be getting some games then. Wonder why they say this though.

It was all their opinion though and there wasn't anything in it about the specifics of the deal.
"My coach told me to warm up just before the break. He told me I was going to take care of Kaka. I didn't think it was possible to turn things around but in the dressing room at halftime Rafa Benitez was calm - "We are Liverpool FC, we have so many fans, we are not going to be slaughtered. If we can score a goal quickly we push on from there.""

Offline Redcap

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1208 on: July 14, 2011, 02:16:06 PM »
If we win the league with this squad, the FA would be fools not to offer the England job to Kenny. Well they are anyway, but the point remains :P

Offline Red Genius

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1209 on: July 14, 2011, 02:17:39 PM »
If we win the league with this squad, the FA would be fools not to offer the England job to Kenny. Well they are anyway, but the point remains :P

Why the hell would Kenny want the England job.
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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1210 on: July 14, 2011, 02:18:06 PM »
For instance if we sell Torres to Chelsea for 50m quid they will take 50m of their revenues and hand them to us. We will then have more revenues than Chelsea so we will be able to spend more on our team than his.

£50m is nothing to Abramovic. Hopefully FFP will change this, but there's no sign of City or Chelsea complying so far. He can give us £50m, but he'll still have far more to spend than we do.

Offline Liverbird 2010

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1211 on: July 14, 2011, 02:27:55 PM »
Why the hell would Kenny want the England job.

Indeed !!! Who gives a fuck about England anyway?

Offline -Willo-

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1212 on: July 14, 2011, 02:28:47 PM »
Stewart Downing will wear the number 19 I think.

Offline drpepe

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1213 on: July 14, 2011, 02:30:07 PM »
Who said anything about the age? What did Henry say we're not signing any 27 year olds? 

You're hanging on to every word that Mr Henry has said.

We might not get much resale value from Carroll or Henderson.

age was a big part of abrak's breakdown of transfer strategy


i'm not hanging on anything (  :o ) , just asking the question  :lickin

Offline Vladi Legend

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1214 on: July 14, 2011, 02:31:10 PM »
People are getting their knickers in a twist over this resale value stuff, but I'm not sure I buy it.  If a player is shit his resale value is effected whatever his age, if he's great why the hell would we want to sell until they're past their best anyway?

I think the club's stance on (generally) signing younger players is simply so we get more years out of them and not have to replace them in 2 seasons time rather than a conscious effort to recoup the fee at a later date.

I think people questioning the signing a 26 year old footballer on account of his age are maybe missing the point.

Of course we're not going to be looking at selling our best players purely for the sake of the profit but the point you are missing is when the players themselves want to leave to sign for that "bigger" club or bigger wage elsewhere.

In situations like that where the player wants away there's not much the club can do other than being spiteful and sticking him in the reserves so better to cut your losses and sell.

The younger the player and longer the contract he's under means a better return for the club to go out and buy his replacement.
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Offline Gobias Industries

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1215 on: July 14, 2011, 02:31:31 PM »
Why the hell would Kenny want the England job.

There is a world of a difference between someone saying "Kenny should be offered the England job" and "Kenny wants the England job"

I don't agree with either of those statements. Kenny's Scottish. It would be a humiliation for the FA to be turned down by a Jock. They would know he would never want it.

Offline Loola

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1216 on: July 14, 2011, 02:33:09 PM »
Great signing but never, ever worth the reported £20 million.  Definately what Liverpool have been missing in recent years but I thought the same about Gonzalez, Babel, Maxi and Kewell. 

Will be a very interesting season ahead!
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Offline AriGold

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1217 on: July 14, 2011, 02:35:39 PM »
So fucking what if we've overpaid on a few players, Kenny wants the players and we'll do all we can to sign them. Rewind a year ago, would you rather pay a little over the odds for good players or scrape the barrel and bring in dross like Paul Konchesky and Christian Poulsen? I know what I'd rather be doing. Things could be worse, we could be Everton.
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Offline drpepe

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1218 on: July 14, 2011, 02:35:48 PM »
For people with reservations see below for a sample of our recent LM 'coups'..

Jova
Riera
Leto
Gonzalez
Zenden

The above scream mediocre..Downing on the other hand is a proven quality winger.

At the end of the day we should be grateful that we are no longer scraping the barrel for players and instead splashing upwards of 100 million on 5 players. A LB and CB now and the squad is looking very strong.

Roll on the 13th.

Jova - boswell
Riera - paid 8m, sold ~5m
Leto - paid <2m sold for 5m
Gonzalez - 2m
Zenden - boswell


it is easy to see the problem....  :o

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1219 on: July 14, 2011, 02:36:43 PM »
Boswell? You mean Bosman, right?
"My coach told me to warm up just before the break. He told me I was going to take care of Kaka. I didn't think it was possible to turn things around but in the dressing room at halftime Rafa Benitez was calm - "We are Liverpool FC, we have so many fans, we are not going to be slaughtered. If we can score a goal quickly we push on from there.""

Offline Red Genius

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1220 on: July 14, 2011, 02:36:46 PM »
Jova - boswell
Riera - paid 8m, sold ~5m
Leto - paid <2m sold for 5m
Gonzalez - 2m
Zenden - boswell


it is easy to see the problem....  :o


Boswell? :)
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Offline MKelly34

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1221 on: July 14, 2011, 02:37:12 PM »
Boswell  :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

Offline Anfield Mob

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1222 on: July 14, 2011, 02:37:57 PM »
welcome stuart, hope you continue your good form!

to those mumping about our less than exotic transfers so far, dont! whilst i may not be beside myself with excitement either, they are still 100% better than what we signed last summer, by a very large margin.

Offline AriGold

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1223 on: July 14, 2011, 02:39:32 PM »
Jova - boswell
Riera - paid 8m, sold ~5m
Leto - paid <2m sold for 5m
Gonzalez - 2m
Zenden - boswell


it is easy to see the problem....  :o
What/who the fuck is boswell?
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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1224 on: July 14, 2011, 02:40:05 PM »
Boswell? You mean Bosman, right?

;D I prefer Boswell

Offline RobbieRedman

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1225 on: July 14, 2011, 02:42:53 PM »
Lmao @ Boswell...quality

Offline KK Legend

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1226 on: July 14, 2011, 02:43:38 PM »
So because someone voices an opinion over a signing that disrespectful to Kenny ? Grow the Fuck up mate. Using modric and sneider was just an example its obvious we cannot get the cream of the crop with no european football to offer but that does mean that you still cannot sign quality. If he was a foreigner aged 27 people would talking all sort of shit but because he is english there its fine spend that much ? Have you seen stewart downing take a player on and beat him ? No other clubs were in  rush to get him because the price was too high, if he is as good as you say trust me clubs would be lining up. Just because he handed in a transfer request dont mean anything, players go where the money is thats reality. Im not going to carry on this with you, you have your opinion i have mine we support the same team and club. I wish him well when he does sign but its overpriced FACT! 

It's not an opinion when you use the word fact is it?
Have I seen Stewart Downing take on a player and beat him? Does that even require an answer? The lad's been playing at the top level league for years and on the international scene yet you've seen  no quality to his game...never? What was it you were saying about respect?
And just for the record, I never directly said you were showing a lack of respect (although I think you are now) for Kenny or anybody, I said that's what I think is required from all of us as supporters along with the other things I've mentioned. Forget where we were just over a year ago and then a short time after that with Roy as manager?
BTW, European football is by far not the only reason for players not to want to come to Liverpool, despite what deals they are offered or pay they might receive, there's other variables involved here. Maybe you need to grow up a bit mate if you can't grasp any of that!

I need to go back to your question of if I've ever seen Downing take on and beat anybody. My answer to that is this. Years ago there was a programme on tv can't remember what it was called but it was basically about how the bigger clubs tend to sniff out the young talent whilst they're at academys or younger and start to try and apply pressure on these young players, their agents ( if they have them), their parents and their respective clubs if they're keen on that player. Downing's name was mentioned in this programme and as I understood the programme at the time certain scouts/clubs were feeling around and gathering information on him, Liverpool were mentioned on several occassions throughout the programme.  Downing at that time was very highly thought of at Middlesboro and he was producing the goods against his peers and was attracting interest from the bigger clubs, since I actually watched that programme and the fact it interested me in how clubs tried to go about snapping up these young players I genuinely began to take an interest in Stewart Downing, not as far as stalking him and watching his every move, just a kind of subconscious thing that would pop up now and again as he became mentioned more and more as he started his pro career. I wondered at the type of player he was and if he was good enough for us to have been looking at him. The rest is history but back in the present we're about to sign the lad and there's nothing I've ever seen from Downing to suggest that he would be a failure if he came to Liverpool, like I said, I haven't followed his every move but I can form an opinon based on a fair amount of knowledge gleaned here and there over the seasons about Downing and that opinion I've already expressed, he fits my profile type to meet the standard needed to be a Liverpool player and it would seem Kenny does too.
  Downing has worked hard at his football career to gain a chance at one of the 'bigger' clubs, I hope he takes it and think he will. Hope that kind of answers your question.

Offline Growler2

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1227 on: July 14, 2011, 02:44:13 PM »
;D I prefer Boswell

Yeh and me we could also call it a Freddie, imagine 'our new midfielders boss mate considerin we got him on a Freddie'

Offline stonty

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1228 on: July 14, 2011, 02:47:08 PM »
Boswell is class

Offline Raoul Duke

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1229 on: July 14, 2011, 02:47:15 PM »
Uh-oh. Trouble....

That's nothing compared to what Gerrard's going to do when he finds out there's no Phil Collins.
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Offline fowlermagic

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1230 on: July 14, 2011, 02:48:07 PM »
PreWelcome to the Kenny Revolution lad.
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Offline Neil D

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1231 on: July 14, 2011, 02:50:08 PM »
Skrtel is our best centre back (aimed at Fordy) he's the most consistent, quickest, least injury prone and top statistically (as proven by Anfield Index) in that position.

Sorry I don't buy that, Agger and Carra are better for me. Think they read the game better, are better tacklers, better in the air, stronger, and in Agger's case much better on the ball. I don't think stats can prove Skrtel is better on their own.
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Offline Baz Smythe

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1232 on: July 14, 2011, 02:52:30 PM »
;D I prefer Boswell

gonna start using that from now on

Offline lucas21

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1233 on: July 14, 2011, 02:54:16 PM »
Is Boswell Baldrick?

Offline the jesus

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1234 on: July 14, 2011, 02:54:19 PM »
"We just stand beside each other, and help each other. And we make sure that what we’re doing, we’re doing correctly"- Kenny

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Offline Lofty Ambitions

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1235 on: July 14, 2011, 02:56:09 PM »
It's not Bos-well it's Bos-ley  :wanker

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Offline Ikki.Fenikkusu

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1236 on: July 14, 2011, 02:57:18 PM »
Thanks for helping my post have some weight. Getting Carroll was lazy? "It's either lazy or ignorant." This is so ridiculous it's beyond contempt. We had no time, were suddenly cash-rich and needed a quick replacement who we knew we could buy, had talent, and would be a summer target and we got him. Of course we paid a premium for dealing late. Just like Chelsea did. Don't let any facts whatsoever get in the way of your non-existent argument though eh.

I am not saying Kenny or Comolli were lazy or ignorant for simply buying him. I am saying IF we paid 35m because Carroll was the only player they thought would fit into their plans then by that account I do think it is lazy and ignorant. If it is because of the above, it does explain the premium. It still doesn't mean Carroll is worth the fee IMO. And it doesn't explain the premiums we keep paying in subsequent transfers. And also, we didn't have to buy Carroll.

You realise our first port of call in January was Bilbao and Fernando Llorente, yes?

I know that, but what is your point? That they looked at two players? This refutes my point how?

Offline Gareth 84

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1237 on: July 14, 2011, 02:57:26 PM »
I wonder who else we can buy on a boswell.

Didnt we get joe cole last season on a boswell

I think any future reference on rawk to a free transfer it should now be called a boswell!!    :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

Offline gray19lfc

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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1238 on: July 14, 2011, 02:58:41 PM »
Fucking boswell'?

:lmao
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Re: Reds agree Downing fee
« Reply #1239 on: July 14, 2011, 02:58:42 PM »
Sorry I don't buy that, Agger and Carra are better for me. Think they read the game better, are better tacklers, better in the air, stronger, and in Agger's case much better on the ball. I don't think stats can prove Skrtel is better on their own.
I trust the judgement of our previous 3 managers when it comes to the centre backs even owl face. Carragher is not good in the air nor stronger than skrtel. But I've seen your posts in the Skrtel thread so....
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