Topic: Reds agree Downing fee

[AnnieRoad(Un)Faithful]

I don't care if the fee is £20m as long as Kenny wants him and thinks he's worth it.

[hugoboss]

Suarez can take free kicks too.

Yeah, he does alright. Good to have right and left footed FK takers

[Ikki.Fenikkusu]

So you want Krancjar? That's who you want us spending money on? Mata while a good player doesn't help our strategy and we'd still be stuck on plan A and wouldn't be able to change our play if we couldn't break down an opposition. Negredo has scored some goals but he is nothing special. Oh and how much do you really thin Mata will cost? Definitely not the 15-20M being quoted I believe more in the range of 25-30M

No, the players I named are just names. But there are others out there. People pretend as if "well, if we don't get Downing, that's it, we can't get anyone else" trying to rationalise the overpaying. Look, football is a funny game; you don't need one exact player for success; a player who can largely contribute what another does will more or less provide the same input. There are star players that define a team's way of playing and will determine to a great extent the success of that team - but players like Downing are not it.

And, really, for all your questions of "how do you know"; to then come and say Mata doesn't fit into our team tactics is very presumptuous. How do you know? And more importantly, do you actually think Downing does something that Mata can't do? This is where the unintelligible rationalising comes into play.

If Negredo has scored "a few goals" it is more than than Carroll who has done pretty much f-all to deserve his fee.

And yes, I was calculating like this: 25 for Mata, 25 for Negredo and 10 for Kranjcar and you come in at 10m profit over what we paid for Carroll, Henderson and Downing.

Not only are the former 3 better, they are 10m cheaper in signing fees.*

*Yes, I know, these are just reasonable estimates.

[Hazell]

Yeah, he does alright. Good to have right and left footed FK takers

Right. But if we're signing Adam purely for set pieces (we aren't), then it's the wrong signing IMO.

[Trada]

Just read on Twitter that Kenny is flying back to the UK to tie up the Downing deal is this true?

[MKelly34]

Just read on Twitter that Kenny is flying back to the UK to tie up the Downing deal is this true?

Link?

[Dick Emery]

Could've been worse. We could've spent £20 million on Alberto Aquilani.

[the BIG fella]

Just read on Twitter that Kenny is flying back to the UK to tie up the Downing deal is this true?

It's his daughters Wedding on Saturday anyway

[Aaronb121]

Just read on Twitter that Kenny is flying back to the UK to tie up the Downing deal is this true?

Yeah, the guy outside melwood on SSN just said the same thing.

[Ikki.Fenikkusu]

Could've been worse. We could've spent £20 million on Alberto Aquilani.

Nah, we already paid 17 for him - which is less than the Downing fee. 

[danny boy the red]

Somebody mentioned it in another thread - maybe Abrak- but it's great that finally were not being put off by high prices to sign players needed for priority positions.

The fee is steep, but it is in keeping with what English international players, who are  performing well, usually go for.

Plus it's also a sign of the times that we've actually managed to finally sign someone from Aston Villa.

[Hazell]

Could've been worse. We could've spent £20 million on Alberto Aquilani.

We could have. But we didn't.

[Ikki.Fenikkusu]

Right. But if we're signing Adam purely for set pieces (we aren't), then it's the wrong signing IMO.

I think people trying to rationalise the Adam transfer with respect to his FK ability are selling both him and Kenny short.

[Dick Emery]

Nah, we already paid 17 for him - which is less than the Downing fee. 

Thank God for that. I thought we'd been ripped off on him. £17 million is a bargain.

[Hazell]

Thank God for that. I thought we'd been ripped off on him. £17 million is a bargain.

Thank God we had G+H, Purslow and Broughton and never had the opportunity to find out.

[Ikki.Fenikkusu]

Plus it's also a sign of the times that we've actually managed to finally sign someone from Aston Villa.

Haha, great line.

[scatman]

happy we've signed him, now on for more transfer spending and that so-called 'marquee' player!

[Ikki.Fenikkusu]

Thank God for that. I thought we'd been ripped off on him. £17 million is a bargain.

For a world class player, an Italian international, it's a good fee. For Stewey Downing...

[Kopite Downunder]

What a bloody joke this is ....20 F*$%&* million on steward downing aged 27 english and as average as a winger can come ! Firstly we overpaid for carroll but circumstances dictated that but this one is taking the piss. It does not fall in line with the owners model of young talent and is on the threshold of their age criteria. I'm not complaining that we are signing p[layers but like some one said early we seem to spending silly money just to get a target when clearly in this case they are way better options out there. Its not a question of not backing Kenny or the club but have a bit reasoning to question. It all boils down the to fact that he is english right ? What a waste i dont understand this signing 

[harleydanger]

8 months ago, i couldn't imagine us spending 20mil in a window, we've now spent 100m and countingg in 2. Would i have signed Carroll for 35m? no. Would i have signed Downing and Henderson for 20mil odd each? no. Have i won the league before ? no.

If we over pay wee over pay, enjoy it after the last few years.

[Kopite Downunder]

Could've been worse. We could've spent £20 million on Alberto Aquilani.

Aquilani over downing any day of the week

[Sefton10]

Made up with Downing's fee agreed, already made up with the signings we've already done! I don't think the fee is to much or too little, he is a very under rated player and I think he'll be worth it, Glad to see him as part of the team!

[MKelly34]

Some mad people in here.

[Dick Emery]

For a world class player, an Italian international, it's a good fee. For Stewey Downing...

This post needs an award.

[keyo]

There is: it was in response to the post I quoted which asked one thing and stated another thing: how old is he, and he is underrated. Other than that, I wasn't making a connection between him being overrated and his age. My point on him being overrated is in reference to his price. He is being rated higher than he should be, and we are hence paying a higher price than we should be.

fair enough...about the age/rating non-connection, the rest is your opinion to which you are entitled

It's becoming clear you don't read things and comprehend them well. I said, IF he is a flop, it is unlikely we'll keep him longer than 2 seasons. For example, he may have a bad first season; but we'll keep him for another season to make sure whether he'll hack it. So 2 seasons - I am being conservative here because if he stays even longer he'll be even more worthless at resale.

clearly i don't (or you are just poor at expressing you opinion)....but if you base your opinion on him failing, then what am i supposed to comment on.....where is the upside, what about the bit where he succeeds?  so me commenting on the outcome of the downing's stay as a flop is me not comprehending what exactly?  and again, you are basing your value of his acquisition on his resale value, how have i misunderstood this?

None of this is a fact; it is all subjective. But take a look at the transfers going on around the world and the prices and get back to me. If 20m for DOWNING isn't overpriced then I am not sure what to tell you. That is if that is the fee.

based on the market, using a comparable deal.....ashley young is 1 year younger than downing, and had 1 year less on his contract...he has 12 fewer caps than downing, has averaged around 31games over his career compared to downing's 34, has 62 career goals compared to downing's 32

He is overpriced, Young is a much better player than Downing and I'd say even Young is a tad overpriced. Just because you want a player as a priority doesn't not make him overpriced. You could want John O'Shea for 10m...that's overpriced. That's the crux of the discussion: whether Downing is worth the fee and worth being a priority.

so your answer is that in your opinion young is better than downing and therefore we got done in the transfer, well done, wll thought out case, put in a way that is clear and unequivocal, i bow to your debating skills.....and the john o'shea comparison, just genius...tell me WHY downing and young are not in the same price bracket, then tell me the EXACT prices (and sources) the deals went through at to justify your arguments and who we could buy for that role at the same price with appropriate justification (i gave you the justification for the price, least you can do is the same to back your opinion, not just say look at transfers going on around the globe)

as for priorites, again that is opinion, so fine, you do not think he should be a priority.....do not use price to argue this point because you do not know the price and your opinion is your opinion, not fact, dalglish and comolli have a different opinion, and that is their driver....the price is within the expected market price, whether you like the player is a different matter

the issue i have generally about prices being used as a stick to beat transfers with, but very rarely is there any proper review of the price paid based on what is happening in the market and with the buyer and the seller....and we know nothing about either the budget we have or the policy developed in terms of transfers....and then don't even talk to me about using resale values as a basis for valuing a transfer.......

[rossipersiempre]

Aurelio is not better at set-pieces than Adam mate but this is the Downing thread

Heard it all now...

[walshys_mullet]

Heard it all now...

You happy rossi?

[Trada]

Link?

No link someone just posted it on Twitter so was wondering if it was true and if anyone could confirm if it was true or not.

[main-stand-molby]

if we

What a bloody joke this is ....20 F*$%&* million on steward downing aged 27 english and as average as a winger can come ! Firstly we overpaid for carroll but circumstances dictated that but this one is taking the piss. It does not fall in line with the owners model of young talent and is on the threshold of their age criteria. I'm not complaining that we are signing p[layers but like some one said early we seem to spending silly money just to get a target when clearly in this case they are way better options out there. Its not a question of not backing Kenny or the club but have a bit reasoning to question. It all boils down the to fact that he is english right ? What a waste i dont understand this signing 

its all relative though isnt it.  We've identified we need type x, y and z of player.
We get that and we get 4th place for example.  We get 4th place and we get Champions League income which pays for these players. 

Mata maybe a better technical player nicer on the eye, though i've not seen much of him so can only assume the hysteria about him from fans is merited to some degree.  But if he's not a type x y or z player then its not serving a purpose getting him at this stage.  We want a certain type of player, to get him this is how much we need to pay.  The management are comfortable paying this as the return will make it seem peanuts.  Football Manager and all these types of game have a lot to answer for.

[Red Beret]

Better then Riera and not an arsehole.  Carroll will certainly lap up Downing's width and will love playing off his balls.  Am very pleased with this signing (when confirmed).

To those who have doubts, either over Downing's ability or price just remember: we should not rate a player by how many other big clubs were chasing him.  Just because we didn't come out on top in a slugfest between us, Spurs and Utd doesn't mean Downing is not a good player.  Who did we fight off to sign Ian Rush?  Kenny?  Aldridge?  Suarez?  What a player might bring to another club is irrelevant to us; it's what the player will bring to LFC that matters. 

Slightly off topic, the players we have bought will improve the squad - that cannot be argued against.  It would now not surprise me at all to see Cole and AA retained in the squad for that very reason.  Perhaps, given the chaos of last season and how results became so important a number of players were squeezed to the fringes, Cole may have been hard done by and Kenny's looking to give him a second chance.  In AA's case, bringing in further quality foreign players may prove troublesome this summer given our lack of European football so we may try and hold onto the ones we rate.

At the end of the day, next season we will be aiming for first, even if we only finish fourth.  But that's better than aiming for fourth and only finishing sixth.

[hugoboss]

No, the players I named are just names. But there are others out there. People pretend as if "well, if we don't get Downing, that's it, we can't get anyone else" trying to rationalise the overpaying. Look, football is a funny game; you don't need one exact player for success; a player who can largely contribute what another does will more or less provide the same input. There are star players that define a team's way of playing and will determine to a great extent the success of that team - but players like Downing are not it.

And, really, for all your questions of "how do you know"; to then come and say Mata doesn't fit into our team tactics is very presumptuous. How do you know? And more importantly, do you actually think Downing does something that Mata can't do? This is where the unintelligible rationalising comes into play.

If Negredo has scored "a few goals" it is more than than Carroll who has done pretty much f-all to deserve his fee.

And yes, I was calculating like this: 25 for Mata, 25 for Negredo and 10 for Kranjcar and you come in at 10m profit over what we paid for Carroll, Henderson and Downing.

Not only are the former 3 better, they are 10m cheaper in signing fees.*

*Yes, I know, these are just reasonable estimates.

I'd take Carroll over Negredo and wouldn't even consider Krancjar. Again Mata and Downing are different players, you need to understand we have a way we want to play and we're buying players who fit into that system. Buying better players who don't fit into the system is pointless even if they are available for the same price.

I keep bringing people back to Arsenal and Barca for me the individual players are not as wonderful or good as they appear to be but when they play in a system which using all their strengths they look invincible.

Look at Messi for Argentina, Alves for Brazil, Torres(while at LFC) for Spain, and to an extent Gerrard for England. They all looked a shadow of them selves when they played in different systems so for me it's more important to get a winning system and get players who fit into the system than to get different quality players and try to mold them into a winning system.

[Base21]

Good signing once completed, improved since his Middlesbrough days... will be purely used on the left, IF we were to play a 4-4-2 or a 4-5-1

[vishy01234]

The thing that excites me about this signing is we are assembling a team. There is a clear strategy and I reckon this is important if a club is planning for year on year success. In our heyday we were a team, not a collection of star names.

Yes, the fee is steep. But it's signings like Joe Cole, Christian Poulsen and Paul Konchesky that are really expensive in the long term. Out of form, chronically injured or crap players rarely help to compete for the title.

[nocturnalvin]

Right. But if we're signing Adam purely for set pieces (we aren't), then it's the wrong signing IMO.

obviously not. Else we would have signed david beckham wouldn't we.
But lets not deny setpieces are important. 35% of goals come from them.

[hugoboss]

Right. But if we're signing Adam purely for set pieces (we aren't), then it's the wrong signing IMO.

Why post this at all when you know we are signing him purely for set-pieces? No one ever said we did

[keyo]

This post needs an award.

FA-FUCKING-ZACKERLEY

[The Red artist.]

We could have. But we didn't.

How much was it then Hazell?

[hugoboss]

I think people trying to rationalise the Adam transfer with respect to his FK ability are selling both him and Kenny short.

No one was, don't know what Hazell is on about mate

[Hazell]

Why post this at all when you know we are signing him purely for set-pieces? No one ever said we did

Your post suggested we did.

[MKelly34]

http://www.redcafe.net/f9/downing-liverpool-330764/index19.html

As for Pool splashing all this cash. Dunno why we are laughing. Yes they are over paying. But what do we care? Why would their fans care? If the owners have the cash it matters not.

One thing that is clear. Their squad will be a big improvement. And getting young English players in too is never a bad thing.

Downing is a good winger. The type Liverpool have needed for many years. Young IMO is a better all round player. But end product – there aint much of a difference between the 2. And we paid roughly the same amount.

A lot could well be eating their words. If this team clicks they could well challenge for the top 4 this season

The team is infinitely better than it was last season. The prices are extortionate, indeed, but the team has been improved. Downing, Carroll, and Suarez is a front three that I can see actually complementing each other really well - one player who stays wide, one who cuts in, and one who is direct. It's not a perfect team in other positions by any means, but in fairness, it's going to be a tough side to beat away at Anfield especially.

Agree with this.

We can all talk about how much they've spent but when you simply look at the players brought in and not the nonsense surrounding it they've improved.

Although I'm struggling to figure out exacty how they'll line up.

Even some of the Utd supporters are seeing Downing as a good signing, despite the fee. I really don't care about the money we spent.

FUCK THE MONEY.