Author Topic: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment  (Read 26155 times)

Online helmboy_nige

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #560 on: July 13, 2011, 03:16:38 PM »
Nice idea, the same could be said of humanity in general. In fact it has been, but even Marx agreed that while trying to effect change, you need to live in the world you inhabit rather than the one you would like to.

This isn't a straightforward situation at all.

Three basic options:

1. Inertia. The club stands still while losing £60m a year to United. That's a Carroll and a Suarez EVERY SEASON. Or four Hendersons. With FFP ruels, that will be very much that, the club will sink to mid-table mediocrity and the owners, realising their ambitions are never going to be realised, will sell the club, possibly at a loss, to the highest bidder. Tom Hicks jr, anyone?

2. Redevelopment. The club somehow manages to make it happen. The council are upset. The local residents are furious. We need to close parts of the ground and lose money while the work is done. The final capacity is now set in stone, with no prospect of increase above 55k, whatever happens. Commercial and community facilities are limited. Very few new long-term jobs in the area.

3. New stadium. 60k and rising. The redevelopment plan benefits the entire area. Community facilities and hundreds of local jobs. Huge increase in potential revenues from the ground both on match days and outside.

Take the emotion out and suddenly, there's no question what the best option is.

But, of course, football is ALL about emotion.

Good post.

It is sadly very true that whichever option is chosen some people will lose out.  The new stadium option finally offers the chance of true redevelopment of the Anfield area because LFC can (hopefully) release the houses it owns from their derelict state.  As a point of interest, and I apologise if it's already been posted, how many houses does the club own?  Are they just a number of the ones in the immediate vicinity (ie Lothair Rd) or does it go much wider than that?

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #561 on: July 13, 2011, 03:28:09 PM »
why exactly? which part made you laugh?

I am laughing at the fact you still don't get it.

Though there is part of me that is terrified and a part of me that would expect nothing less from elements of our muppet fanbase.
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Offline Paul Gardner

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #562 on: July 13, 2011, 03:31:57 PM »
Good post.

It is sadly very true that whichever option is chosen some people will lose out.  The new stadium option finally offers the chance of true redevelopment of the Anfield area because LFC can (hopefully) release the houses it owns from their derelict state.  As a point of interest, and I apologise if it's already been posted, how many houses does the club own?  Are they just a number of the ones in the immediate vicinity (ie Lothair Rd) or does it go much wider than that?

Immediate vicinity primarily. 10 in Lothair Road (8 of them on Main Stand side) as of last October. Technically own more in Anfield Road as well, but that is the land effectively behind the Anny Road End.

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #563 on: July 13, 2011, 04:01:40 PM »
If the club goes down the new stadium route, what happens to the houses?

And are there any other derelict houses on those roads that do not belong to the club?
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Offline The 92A

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #564 on: July 13, 2011, 04:05:52 PM »
I am laughing at the fact you still don't get it.

Though there is part of me that is terrified and a part of me that would expect nothing less from elements of our muppet fanbase.

I believe that Juve have moved out the Stadio delle Allpi, if thats free i think that's got a decent capacity. ;)
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Offline Paul Gardner

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #566 on: July 13, 2011, 04:07:13 PM »
If the club goes down the new stadium route, what happens to the houses?

And are there any other derelict houses on those roads that do not belong to the club?

The area was part of the Housing Market Renewal Scheme which ran out of money, so they would eventually be refurbished. Think all the ones that were meant to be demolished in that proximity to the stadium have already been done now (Lake Street being one). There are other derelict houses on other streets that belong to others particularly on Rockfield Road. Some will belong to Private Owners, others to the likes of Arena Housing.

Offline Mark Walters

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #567 on: July 13, 2011, 05:28:32 PM »
The area was part of the Housing Market Renewal Scheme which ran out of money, so they would eventually be refurbished. Think all the ones that were meant to be demolished in that proximity to the stadium have already been done now (Lake Street being one). There are other derelict houses on other streets that belong to others particularly on Rockfield Road. Some will belong to Private Owners, others to the likes of Arena Housing.

Thanks for the info.
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Offline LiverpoolKopKings

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #568 on: July 13, 2011, 05:45:05 PM »
I am laughing at the fact you still don't get it.

Though there is part of me that is terrified and a part of me that would expect nothing less from elements of our muppet fanbase.

you could have said that it's ridiculous because it is too far away even for a temporary base, but calling me a muppet was low. I was mearly trying to engage in the discussion your highness!!!

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #569 on: July 13, 2011, 05:51:58 PM »
you could have said that it's ridiculous because it is too far away even for a temporary base, but calling me a muppet was low. I was mearly trying to engage in the discussion your highness!!!

How exactly would moving to Cardiff gauge our ability to fill a 75k stadium though?  Do you seriously expect everyone to make that round trip every week?

Offline Nessy76

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #570 on: July 13, 2011, 07:08:45 PM »
How exactly would moving to Cardiff gauge our ability to fill a 75k stadium though?  Do you seriously expect everyone to make that round trip every week?

If more supporters travelled down to watch us in Cardiff than currently go to watch us at Anfield then that would certainly suggest we could fill a 75k stadium. Aside from that, it's a little big of a daft suggestion.

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #571 on: July 13, 2011, 08:41:35 PM »
The area was part of the Housing Market Renewal Scheme which ran out of money, so they would eventually be refurbished. Think all the ones that were meant to be demolished in that proximity to the stadium have already been done now (Lake Street being one). There are other derelict houses on other streets that belong to others particularly on Rockfield Road. Some will belong to Private Owners, others to the likes of Arena Housing.

Cheers.  It's a really bizarre situation.  I can't imagine what it must be like now for the few families that live there.  Last time I went down Lothair there were only about 10 houses not boarded up.  Very depressing.

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #572 on: July 13, 2011, 09:04:38 PM »
If more supporters travelled down to watch us in Cardiff than currently go to watch us at Anfield then that would certainly suggest we could fill a 75k stadium. Aside from that, it's a little big of a daft suggestion.

that was a cup final(s), we saw what happened last season to attendances when results werent great.

Offline richmiller1

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #573 on: July 13, 2011, 09:11:52 PM »
It means you can also add extra rows to the existing stands.  The pitch just moves towards the Main Stand / Anny Road corner.  Size remaining the same.  It's another of the reasons that the footprint of the ground will be growing massively in that direction

Trouble is you can't do that without creating massive complications and compromises. Are we really suggesting an off centre Kop? or that people at the Kop end of the Centenary and vice versa should have their views wrecked? Does anyone really fancy extra uncovered seats for cold wet November nights against MK Dons in the league cup?

Dropping the pitch without extending the stands or moving the pitch is even worse, we could conceivably get a situation where every view from the Kop or Centenary is compromised unless you stand.

« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 09:15:56 PM by richmiller1 »

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #574 on: July 13, 2011, 10:17:40 PM »
It means you can also add extra rows to the existing stands.  The pitch just moves towards the Main Stand / Anny Road corner.  Size remaining the same.  It's another of the reasons that the footprint of the ground will be growing massively in that direction
It would be a very expensive solution that caused more probems than it solved, and exemplifies the difficulty of refurbishment which invariably equals compromise.
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Offline chuckberry

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #575 on: July 13, 2011, 10:22:29 PM »
Teams play in other grounds all the time - its not a big deal for 1 year. THis whole stadium debate is bizarre to an outsider like me - what I would expect to happen here in Australia is for residents to complain - the council to be bribed to give it the go ahead and then the complaint taken to another government body who would come down on the side of Liverpool because thats what's best for the public as a whole - fuck a few thousand people compared to the greater good.

What's wrong with you people? WHy hasnt anyone taken photos of the council members having sex with hoookers and shoving turnips up their bums.

This aint hard stuff

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Offline LiverpoolKopKings

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #576 on: July 13, 2011, 10:33:49 PM »
How exactly would moving to Cardiff gauge our ability to fill a 75k stadium though?  Do you seriously expect everyone to make that round trip every week?

I must admit that I suggested that stadium without thinking it through enough. It is a big ask. However if there was an alternative that is not that far away it'd be worth a try. Someone mentioned Juve. That is exactly what they did. If, and ok these are thoughts in the clouds, we could fill 75K regularly, it'd would make sense, in case of a new build, to go immediately a bit higher. But anyway this ain't gonna happen. But the suggestion that we move to another ground for about 2 seasons to prepare stanley park, put down anfield and scavenge what we can, especially steel that can be recycled ain't that daft. we would just need to find somewhere big enough to be comparable and obviously not goodison (by my reckoning)
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 11:34:30 AM by LiverpoolKopKings »

Offline reddazforever

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #577 on: July 13, 2011, 11:33:30 PM »
Immediate vicinity primarily. 10 in Lothair Road (8 of them on Main Stand side) as of last October. Technically own more in Anfield Road as well, but that is the land effectively behind the Anny Road End.

How many houses are there on Lothair Rd?  and did the club ever offer to buy all the house 'in bulk' previously or have they been buying them one by one as they've come on the market?  cheers
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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #578 on: July 13, 2011, 11:47:43 PM »
How many houses are there on Lothair Rd?  and did the club ever offer to buy all the house 'in bulk' previously or have they been buying them one by one as they've come on the market?  cheers

it`s not a long road, on the main stand side of the road there`s probably only 2 or 3 houses that arent boarded up by the looks of it.

Offline The Lash

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #579 on: July 13, 2011, 11:49:51 PM »
Teams play in other grounds all the time - its not a big deal for 1 year. THis whole stadium debate is bizarre to an outsider like me - what I would expect to happen here in Australia is for residents to complain - the council to be bribed to give it the go ahead and then the complaint taken to another government body who would come down on the side of Liverpool because thats what's best for the public as a whole - fuck a few thousand people compared to the greater good.


Yeah, thats right lid, fuck a few thousand people, as long as yo are not one of the eh.

Offline Paul Gardner

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #580 on: July 14, 2011, 12:05:46 AM »
How many houses are there on Lothair Rd?  and did the club ever offer to buy all the house 'in bulk' previously or have they been buying them one by one as they've come on the market?  cheers

Not sure on exact number of houses on Lothair, but judging by house numbers there are around 40. Not sure on the process for all of them, but five of those houses were bought on the same day in 2000 with two others within around a month of that. There have been a couple sold since then that the club as far as I know haven't bought. There was obviously a change of outlook with regards the properties.

Offline ultimatewarrior

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #581 on: July 14, 2011, 09:09:09 AM »
I must admit that I suggested that stadium without thinking it through enough. It is a bit ask. However if there was an alternative that is not that far away it'd be worth a try. Someone mentioned Juve. That is exactly what they did. If, and ok these are thoughts in the clouds, we could fill 75K regularly, it'd would make sense, in case of a new build, to go immediately a bit higher. But anyway this ain't gonna happen. But the suggestion that we move to another ground for about 2 seasons to prepare stanley park, put down anfield and scavenge what we can, especially steel that can be recycled ain't that daft. we would just need to find somewhere big enough to be comparable and obviously not goodison (by my reckoning)
Why not just sell the steel after the new stadium is finished. Steel is steel, remove the paint and melt it down its as good as raw material.

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #582 on: July 14, 2011, 09:17:00 AM »
Teams play in other grounds all the time - its not a big deal for 1 year.

The club has already stated (by mentioning the loss of revenue due to decreased capacity) that, if they went down the redevelopment route, they would still play at Anfield.

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #583 on: July 14, 2011, 09:23:21 AM »

shoving turnips up their bums.

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #584 on: July 14, 2011, 09:37:42 AM »
It means you can also add extra rows to the existing stands.  The pitch just moves towards the Main Stand / Anny Road corner.  Size remaining the same.  It's another of the reasons that the footprint of the ground will be growing massively in that direction

Have you sat towards the back of the Kop recently? Lowering the pitch would pretty much make seeing the far goal impossible due to the roof on the Kop.

Also, the pitch would then go past the length of the centenary and width of the kop, are we also going to have to extend these stands at a considerable expense?
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Online helmboy_nige

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #585 on: July 14, 2011, 12:10:02 PM »
All the talk of lowering the pitch and moving slightly just seems massively expensive for limited gain.  In the end the only way we can achieve a major capacity rise and stay at Anfield would be to tear down houses on Lothair Road and expand over/through Annie Road (which brings it's own major obstacles about what to do with the road).

Be interested to see what the costs and losses are for a rebuild of say the Main Stand.  Closing off a stand for a season or so will leave us with reduced income.

Offline Nessy76

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #586 on: July 14, 2011, 12:27:27 PM »
that was a cup final(s), we saw what happened last season to attendances when results werent great.

You missed the "if" at the start of my post.

Offline xerxes1

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #587 on: July 14, 2011, 01:34:23 PM »
  Closing off a stand for a season or so will leave us with reduced income.
Very roughly the Main stand equals just over a quarter of capacity, Annie Rd about a fifth, matchday income annually is around £42m, so the Main Stand closed for a year is £10m, Annie rd £9m, or around the combined annual wage bill for Cole and Jovanovic.
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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #588 on: July 14, 2011, 05:11:41 PM »

No doubt they had a look at refurbishing Anfield out of curiosity. Yet the fact that a football club whose Chief Executive makes a great virtue of his own L4 upbringing didn‘t actually get around to knocking on the doors of residents in the shadow of our revered ground tends to suggest they were never that committed to the idea. For me, from the moment Ian Ayre came out with his comment that naming rights would only apply to a new stadium, it’s been nailed-on we’re moving a brand new stadium - with the accent on brand.


I think that’s a bit unwarranted. I don't for one minute believe that they didn't genuinely spend a significant amount of time exploring the possibility of redeveloping Anfield. You do realize they faced this exact situation in Boston with Fenway Park. They don't need to go knocking on doors, I think they understand the historical and emotional bond with an old sports stadium and what it means to it's supporters. They decided to opt for redeveloping Fenway, because they studied every single aspect and every single obstacle and figured it was feasible, locally and economically. So far, from what I have witnessed from FSG I have no reason to doubt them. I take their word when they say Anfield would be their first choice.


i wont be going to the new ground either.
but what you`ve said has made me think of something else, once we move from anfield i think it makes it a lot easier for fans NOT to go the game, if we are going through a bad spell or a few seasons start to pass without us winning anything i think the new stadium wont hold the same emotional attachment so i think it will be a bit easier for fans to think `i think i might jib it for a bit`
if the club dismantles the things that makes the club what it is, if it dismantles the things that give the club it`s identity, fans wont be as loyal imo.
who`s going to get emotional about a 60,000 seat dome full of shops and corporate boxes?


What do you mean you won't be going to the new ground? What kind of mentality is that? Your ties are with this football club and just because they move homes you won't be going to watch them anymore? It's your choice but it doesn't seem logical. Listen, we have to understand the financial aspect of this. In 2008-09 our gate receipts were £42 million. Arsenal's were £100 m and United's were  £109m. We are miles behind in match day income. That is huge in economic terms. In order to get back in to the top 4 and stay there we need to get much closer in terms of match day revenue. Yes, it's going to take a vast sum of money to build a new stadium but in the long term it will give us the opportunity to play on a even field with the United's and Arsenal's. That's why we are looking in to signing up with a naming rights partner to offset the cost of building a new stadium.

We all love Anfield. The symbolic and emotional attachment we have to it is unrivalled. We will never forget it, how could we. It will always be ingrained in our social pysche. But to move forward as a club and cement a more secure ecomonic footing we may well need to move away from it.
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Offline xerxes1

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #589 on: July 14, 2011, 10:21:01 PM »
A first class post.

I raise another point. Some wish to stay at Anfield for nostalgic reasons. A 60k Anfield would require an extra 15,000 seats between the Main and Annie Rd stands. That would result in an Annie Rd End that is bigger than the Kop. A redeveloped Anfield will be very different from the existing one, the centre of gravity will shift not only from end to end, but from side to side too.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 10:22:36 PM by xerxes1 »
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Offline its cold in the stands

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #590 on: July 14, 2011, 10:54:43 PM »
A first class post.

I raise another point. Some wish to stay at Anfield for nostalgic reasons. A 60k Anfield would require an extra 15,000 seats between the Main and Annie Rd stands. That would result in an Annie Rd End that is bigger than the Kop. A redeveloped Anfield will be very different from the existing one, the centre of gravity will shift not only from end to end, but from side to side too.

what`s that got to do with anything?
as far as i`m concerned if the move the ground it`s not the same club, liverpool football club play at anfield not stanley park.

Offline Diomedieocre

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #591 on: July 14, 2011, 10:57:27 PM »
what`s that got to do with anything?
as far as i`m concerned if the move the ground it`s not the same club, liverpool football club play at anfield not stanley park.


And when you die?.

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #592 on: July 14, 2011, 11:00:17 PM »
And when you die?.

when i`m dead i dont think i`ll be able to have much of an opinion on anything.

Offline MurfySmurfy

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #593 on: July 14, 2011, 11:10:28 PM »
what`s that got to do with anything?
as far as i`m concerned if the move the ground it`s not the same club, liverpool football club play at anfield not stanley park.

What about other big clubs like Barcelona that have moved grounds in the past? Are they not the same club because they don't play their football on the same patch of grass? I understand the emotional connection, the memories, but this is the real world and this is modern football, we must be bold or forever be also rans. More Shops and corporate boxes allow us to be competitive, it's sad but true.

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #594 on: July 14, 2011, 11:11:11 PM »
what`s that got to do with anything?
as far as i`m concerned if the move the ground it`s not the same club, liverpool football club play at anfield not stanley park.


Again, read what I have said above. It doesn't become a different club, it loses some of it's history but the club is the club.
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Offline LiverBirdKop

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #595 on: July 15, 2011, 12:28:00 AM »
I think that’s a bit unwarranted. I don't for one minute believe that they didn't genuinely spend a significant amount of time exploring the possibility of redeveloping Anfield. You do realize they faced this exact situation in Boston with Fenway Park. They don't need to go knocking on doors, I think they understand the historical and emotional bond with an old sports stadium and what it means to it's supporters. They decided to opt for redeveloping Fenway, because they studied every single aspect and every single obstacle and figured it was feasible, locally and economically. So far, from what I have witnessed from FSG I have no reason to doubt them. I take their word when they say Anfield would be their first choice.
The Fenway situation has its share of similarities but the point of redeveloping Anfield is to add a lot more seats whereas what FSG have done at Fenway is pretty much give it a much needed facelift.

Fenway after $285 million dollars spent since NESV/FSG bought the Red Sox: 
Total Day Games: 3,488 extra seats    Total Night Games: 3,500 extra seats.



Capacity in 2001 (year NESV purchased the team): Day Games- 33,577 Night games- 33,993  Source: http://www.baseball-almanac.com/stadium/fenway_park.shtml

Capacity in 2011: Day Games- 37,065  Night Games- 37,493  Source: http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/bos/ballpark/information/index.jsp?content=facts


« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 12:32:02 AM by LiverBirdKop »

Offline xerxes1

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #596 on: July 15, 2011, 12:36:14 AM »
what`s that got to do with anything? as far as i`m concerned if the move the ground it`s not the same club, liverpool football club play at anfield not stanley park.
So it's not the fans, or the stands, it's the grass that you physically play on? An interesting call. And one i have never heard expressed by anyone before - fair play to you.

I first visited West Ham in the 70's, a fearsome place and a good old fashioned ground. It is now, in situ, a pale shadow of its former self. The old home end, the North Bank is now a double decker, split with the home fans. The South Bank , home of the ICF is now the home end but split as a double decker and emasculated, The Chicken Run an area of sterile seats. It is the classic example of how revelopement can kill a ground as easily as a new stadium can.
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Offline royhendo

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #597 on: July 15, 2011, 11:20:16 AM »
Anything more in the media - I see the SOS statement was reinforced in the Echo.
Sid Lowe: "Has the environment around the game changed?"
Juanma Lillo: "Yes, the garnish has eaten the steak."

Offline Diomedieocre

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #598 on: July 15, 2011, 02:52:04 PM »
when i`m dead i dont think i`ll be able to have much of an opinion on anything.

Hehe, Didnt mean anything nasty by it mate, was just trying to say that the club was here before we were born and will be here after were gone.

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Re: Liverpool FC Statement on Anfield Redevelopment
« Reply #599 on: July 15, 2011, 08:44:01 PM »
The temporary relocation issue is easy to resolve.  Instead of bogging off to Cardiff we could use Tranmere's ground, while we'd pay them to play at Marine. Marine could therefore play at Goodison & Everton would move to Sefton Park.
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