Topic: Liverpool Football Club...

[The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society]

Why does the money concern you?

I understand that they're not mutually exclusive but history in this league dictates superstar signings either a) fail or b) take a lot of time to fully reap rewards. I have that patience, mind you, but I don't know if others do, evidenced by the fact they want to sign such players when we're not even in the Europa League.

Sign the players to get us back into Europe, back to winning in the league, and build upon that. Kenny isn't going nowhere, and neither are any of we.

Speak for yourself, if we don't win the league this year I'm switching to West Brom.

[Johnnyboy1973]

I don't believe in Commolli, and I think Dalglish needs reigning in on his buy British slant.

You'll either be prophetic or an arse.

Time will tell.

[rossipersiempre]

Macmanaman like Lloyd did very well, mascherano warmed a seat for the best part of a season and played in a final in a position he doesn't play and wouldn't of gotten a game if they had there first choice squad fit and what has Alonso and Arbeloa done exactly to make it a step up.

Or, are you just going for those Spanish teams being a step up from us no matter what, Or, is it success, to which you must rate Forest above us as well.

I never used the phrase "a step up", I just said you were wrong in your statement that all players leaving the club were taking a "step down".

[barneystuta]

I personally will reserve full judgement until 1st of September.

If we end the transfer window with Adam, Downing, Henderson, and a left back, will I be disappointed? I probably will a little, yes.

But, I genuinely don't think that we will. I think there will be an exciting signing lined up, no idea who (and I wont be playing the Football Manager game), but I reckon their is a surprise or two out there.

[Jellies]

Yeah but when a combined £44m looks like being spent on them (plus £35m for Carroll), it's a bit different. That's insane money.

WHO
GIVES
A
FUCK?

[BobbyDavro]

Bobby till Friday we could only buy British how do you know there are no deals sorted but not announced yet abroad?

Good point well made.
I could be worrying about nothing.

In which case, superb.

[BobbyDavro]

You'll either be prophetic or an arse.

Time will tell.

I could always be a prophetic arse, the two aren't mutually exclusive.
I'll be the one shouting "told ya, fucking told ya didn't I, we're proper fucked now" and being right won't stop you from wanting to punch me in the mouth.

[koppper]

We seem to be letting Ngog go, which suggests another striker - also, we will get a centre back. I understand that we want people who are experienced in this league so that they can hit the ground running and get us back in to the top 4 as next season, the fight for top 4 will be fierce and there wont be too much time for bedding in. Anyway, the European window does not even open for a few days but it all looks very exciting - I cant remember the last time we had so much action early in the transfer window - very much looking forward to the start of the season.

[Shirley.]

WHO
GIVES
A
FUCK?

 When players who may improve the team an equal amount or more are available for less, it could be called reckless spending. And we should all 'give a fuck' about that.

[Mad Men]

It's never signed superstars.

It's made them.

Paul Stewart, Julian Dicks and Neil Ruddock would disagree

[barneystuta]

On a semi related point, it is all well and good us wanting to sign all these players... but our biggest problem is our current wage bill.

Cole, Poulsen, Jovanovic, and many more, are on big contracts, and have little value. The kind of teams they could go to (and do relatively well) are not going to pay their wages. Until we get rid of them, I can't see us breaking the bank and giving a new signing 80k+ per week. Or, in other words, a "superstar" wage (even that isn't a super star wage, when you compare with some teams).

[geoffstrong]

Paul Stewart, Julian Dicks and Neil Ruddock would disagree

well Paul certainly became a better player with us, as you could argue did Neil, however for Dicks think the Konch something even the other God could not make happen!

[John C]

Anyone saying Suarez was a superstar when we signed him is a liar. No way was he considered in the same light as he is now and even then he has so much yet to show.

Yeah mate, he's about as close as I could think of one but he wasn't a household name. I'm not quite sure Kenny was a superstar?
So L6's point stands. We don't sign them we make them. It's a simple point that's caused a right fracas though.

[Ares.]

Anyone saying Suarez was a superstar when we signed him is a liar. No way was he considered in the same light as he is now and even then he has so much yet to show.

Bit of a naive thing to say. He was well known as a superstar in South America and Holland and to people who don't just watch the Premier League.

[horne]

Bit of a naive thing to say. He was well known as a superstar in South America and Holland and to people who don't just watch the Premier League.

are you dyslexic ares?

[C]

Anyone saying Suarez was a superstar when we signed him is a liar. No way was he considered in the same light as he is now and even then he has so much yet to show.

Oh i don't think thats fair, his reputation hasn't changed a great deal since he signed has it?

You go to Montevideo or North-Holland, and try telling them Luis isn't a superstar!

A superstar is either: Cristiano Ronaldo, Messi and Ibrahimovic.

or it is: Benzema, Pato, Rooney, Torres, Gerrard, Kaka, Suarez et al.

Either way, its not really the point of the thread is it? We are great enough to bring in players and turn them into stars, signing Mata isn't necessarily going to guarntee us winning the title, nor is signing Downing a nailed on 6th place finish.

The signings that have gone on in Germany and the Netherlands this summer, which we haven't even had a sniff at is really irritating me though - both are hotbeds for cheap brilliant talent.

[mark82]

I debated whether to put Mata in there, but he's had big international exposure - unlike Torres - as well as several seasons in the European Cup.

Aguero had been talked about in the same breath as Messi until Guardiola got his hands on him, and Pato has been Brazil's next big thing since forever. Both would go for over £35million (but not sure where the Carroll fee comes into it?)

Our best players in the past decade: Owen, Hyypia, Hamann, Gerrard, Carragher, Reina, Alonso, Torres. The only one you could argue was a superstar is Torres, but he didn't a) make waves on an international stage or in Europe and b) have the entire LFC online community screaming for him as if he were Gary Barlow circa 1994.

It could be seen to extend even further, although I'm worried to go back that far since I was chastised by some biff that I was weird for talking about things from when I wasn't born. Barnes? Aldridge?

Torres scored a few in 2006 World Cup did he not? What more 'international exposure' you need?

In response to the OP did we ever spend World Class player money on these people that we developed into World Class stars, that is what we seem to be doing recently.

[Junkle]

I was never licking my lips when reina and alonso were signed.
Never heard of them much before that.
Ok i did get a bit excited when torres signed though.
What a beautiful moment in time.

Count me in.

That is why I tend to agree with the OP.

[TheDpoLenz without the please like]

It's never signed superstars.

It's made them.

Not enough seeing as we have not won the league for 20 years

[Junkle]

Anyone saying Suarez was a superstar when we signed him is a liar. No way was he considered in the same light as he is now and even then he has so much yet to show.

I disagree. He was already a superstar and that is why we paid that much for him which is probable close or in the top 5 highest money paid to any Dutch club. He was already a household name but may be not in England [for his hand of devil business...hahaha]. May be Check Zlatan, Van Nistelroy demanded more or around the same amount at different times to the present.

[Roy of the rovers]

Speak for yourself, if we don't win the league this year I'm switching to West Brom.

I've gone already. Sick of the club wasting money on young talent when there's old folks out there that need our help

The whole aged Kenny figleaf is pathetic.

[mulhiem]

Great quote. Funny how players that leave us, don't end up doing much else!

[Roy of the rovers]

I personally will reserve full judgement until 1st of September.

If we end the transfer window with Adam, Downing, Henderson, and a left back, will I be disappointed? I probably will a little, yes.

But, I genuinely don't think that we will. I think there will be an exciting signing lined up, no idea who (and I wont be playing the Football Manager game), but I reckon their is a surprise or two out there.

I'm most interested in the left back to be honest - the rest (Downing apart) are upgrades rather than replacements. But if we get a good left back, then I'm delighted with that. It tells is something about the way we're going to play though - and width isn't going to be a big part of it. Downing a good player, but one true winger in the squad means banging in crosses from wide isn't going to be the game. But an aggressive left back combined with Glen on the right says we're going to be playing with advanced fullbacks, and otherwise through the middle

There's probably one more signing out there, but if there isn't, I won't be disappointed at all

[helmboy_nige]

Good opening quote L6.  Completely agree.  We are in the job of team building, not buying instant success.

[Andy @ Allerton]

Another random yet highly thought-provoking thread pertaining to "The Liverpool Way"^®.

For the record, we've signed a fair few "big names" for "big money". Maybe you should define that word "superstars" or is that word specifically chosen to resonate with the RAWK demographic you're aiming this at?

I agree with Rossi

[yes]

Sounds catchy? Check
A bit pretentious? Check
Doesn't really hold up to close examination? Check
Could fit on a banner? Check

I'm in!!!

[The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society]

Doesn't really hold up to close examination? Check

Would you like to qualify that?

[Alonso]

Not enough seeing as we have not won the league for 20 years

You're right. Football only started in 1991.

[coct3au]

Doesn't really hold up to close examination? Check

Would you like to qualify that?

If it's relating to the original post, then the fact that we've broken the transfer record on a number of occasions would seem to contradict it pretty objectively.

[Cpt_Reina]

Collymore?

[Eglantine]

L6 Red - I was expecting a long ass brilliant article when I read the title but then two lines. I am dissapoint :p

I think people are focusing too much on the first line and not enough on the second. It's about the club and how we manage and develop our players.
With the same squad bar Suarez (and I'm not trying to underestimate his impact) and Carroll, we were fighting relegation at some point. Surely we could have done better with the right manager.
Sure Torres was an exciting signing but there were no guarentees he would turn into the high profil player he is today. He had a whole system built around him to bring the best out his abilities. Reina with his fantastic abilities and potential, found an excellent goalkeeper coach in Valero and some argued that his form dipped since he left. Of course I'm not saying these players would have flopped elsewhere they are too good for that but one cannot underestimate the role of our club in developing them. I'm not also saying that we will turn Adam and Downing into superstars but no matter how underwhelming they are for some, their signing make sense and they will bring something to the team we already have and we can make things easy for them surrounding them with the quality and resources we have. Then there is the Henderson signing which highlights where our concerns and priorities lie - the long term. And as L6 Red put it better

What we do now is build our squad for the league and ensure we get 4th. Once we have that, the market becomes much, much more open for us.

It's like people think that Martinez, Isco, Iker are realistic possibilities, they're not, their clubs would demand enourmous fees and we can't attract them in terms of wages or European football.
Plus we still have no idea about our transfer plans as a whole, we might afford to have both Downing and Mata. But with or without Mata, it doesn't Mata I think we'll be fine. I'll start panicking when this Wayne Bridge link become genuine  

I think patience and expectations of grandeur are going to be a bitch of a test for some, good luck with that.   

Ja Mata ne! 

Sorry for the cheesy puns overload couldn't help myself.

[Andy @ Allerton]

Speak for yourself, if we don't win the league this year I'm switching to West Brom.

I'm going for the heady heights of the Conference with Cambridge United and £1 a pint in the supporters club.

[Andy @ Allerton]

Good opening quote L6.  Completely agree.  We are in the job of team building, not buying instant success.

It's an Arsene Wenger quote

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-479298/Wenger-We-dont-sign-superstars-make-them.html

[jDJ]

We also don't usually sign relatively unproven talent for staggering fees, so the times they are a-changin'.

[helmboy_nige]

We also don't usually sign relatively unproven talent for staggering fees, so the times they are a-changin'.

Kenny Dalglish, while great for Celtic was unproven in the big leagues and cost a british transfer record.
Ian Rush, record transfer fee for a teenager... and he came from Chester.

It does happen at LFC.

[killer_heels]

Harry Kewell?

[yorkykopite]

The clubs which sign 'superstars' do tend to do rather well. I've noticed that.

The clubs which 'make' them, on the other hand, tend to lose them too - unless, of course, those home-reared players feel they belong to a club which doesn't blink at spending huge sums of money on the markets to bring in the best talent from outside as well.

I don't like this in modern football. But it's been this way now for 20 to 25 years years. The idea in the OP was true when we last won the double. But it was already becoming untrue by the time we signed Barnes n' Beardsley two years later.

[Eglantine]

Well hard to argue with that but this is not the point of the thread though. We are not in favorable odds to sign superstars anyway. I guess what L6 Red is trying to say is keep the faith in our current squad plus the upcoming additions even if we don't sign the Agueros, Patos... of this world this summer.

I'm currently reading the book in your avatar, very poignant.

[yorkykopite]

Well hard to argue with that but this is not the point of the thread though. We are not in favorable odds to sign superstars anyway. I guess what L6 Red is trying to say is keep the faith in our current squad plus the upcoming additions even if we don't sign the Agueros, Patos... of this world this summer.

I'm currently reading the book in your avatar, very poignant.

In the French I hope Eglantine!

Aye well, I'm all for keeping the faith. Who isn't? Really? And let's face it, if the faith can survive Ruddock, Babb, Meijer and Traore, it can survive the current lot pulling on the jersey. But if Liverpool plan on keeping Suarez over the long haul they'll have to entice another one or two 'Suarez's' along the way. That's obvious.

[Vulmea]

The clubs which sign 'superstars' do tend to do rather well. I've noticed that.

The clubs which 'make' them, on the other hand, tend to lose them too - unless, of course, those home-reared players feel they belong to a club which doesn't blink at spending huge sums of money on the markets to bring in the best talent from outside as well.

I don't like this in modern football. But it's been this way now for 20 to 25 years years. The idea in the OP was true when we last won the double. But it was already becoming untrue by the time we signed Barnes n' Beardsley two years later.

I'm not sure that was true - barnes was less than half the price of beardsley  and was thought of as a massive gamble (hence the price) he was not anywhere close to being a superstar

Beardsley was expensive but still considerably less than we got for Rushie - we replaced Rush with 3 or 4 players I'm not sure any of those could genuinely have been labelled 'superstars' - If Beardsley had looked like Torres he may have cost double but he didn't and whilst highly rated in England I dont think that translated onto the world or even european stage - he was about as close as it came though (along with Kenny probably).

I'm not even sure United bought superstars in the early 90's - Cantona, Konchesky etc may have been expensive but not really superstars  = the cult of the 'superstar' is  a relatively modern/sky concept isn't it?