Author Topic: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool  (Read 29403 times)

Offline uwinsa

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #80 on: May 11, 2011, 07:12:39 PM »
I think that what you're suggesting is what is hoped for at the gathering.

Oh ok I thought they were suggesting just a platform for the FSF to air and explain their views only

Offline Trada

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #81 on: May 11, 2011, 07:13:47 PM »
Apart from that he hasn't said that - he said "terracing", which is quite different.

"Kenny Dalglish has branded plans to reintroduce standing at football grounds as a "huge insult" to the Liverpool fans who died at Hillsborough.

Parliament is set to vote tomorrow on a private member's bill, tabled by Liberal Democrat MP Don Foster, which would allow league clubs to construct safe terraced areas at their stadiums and has already been backed by various supporter liason groups.

All-seater stadia was introduced in the top two tiers of English football after on the advice of the Taylor Report, drawn up a year after 96 Reds fans were killed at Sheffield Wednesday's ground before their FA Cup semi-final with Nottingham Forest on April 15 1989.

Dalglish was the Liverpool manager at the time and believes that the proposed legislation is disrespectful to the victims of Hillsborough, especially as their bereaved families are still campaigning for justice for their loved ones 21 years since the tragedy.

He said: "To me, I think safe standing is a bit of a contradiction in terms. It might be safe enough if you're there alone but unless it's managed and looked after properly, then I don't see how it could be safe.

"The football fans at Hillsborough in '89 put their trust in the authorities to look after them, to make sure that standing was safe.

"People are going through the process at the moment to get the justice that they've waited so long for and hugely deserve. I think it's really a bit insensitive for someone to put this forward.

"It's alright standing there if there's only one or two of you in a 30,000 crowd but when you start to get people involved and if it's not handled properly, it will always be a problem.

"I don't think it's a coincidence also that there's been less problems with ground since they've been made all-seater. For me, I can't understand the logic in it. And I think it's a huge insult to the people who lost loved ones at Hillsborough and are fighting for justice.

"If they want to have a discussion about it then put it back until they get a ruling on their outstanding legal cases that are going on at the moment."
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Offline rednich85

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #82 on: May 11, 2011, 07:14:03 PM »
No agreeing with someone why is more knowledgeable than me.

Look at the pictures above. The ones of the new style terracing. One person to a designed area.

How could that be more dangerous than having a load of seats where people stand most of the games anyway....i.e. The Kop.
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Offline Classic goal

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #83 on: May 11, 2011, 07:14:08 PM »
Not at all. There were a number of reasons why the disaster happens. I'm not arguing with anybody's opinions, I'm just pointing out mine. I just don't understand why you need to stand up to create an atmosphere at a game.

some people prefer to stand, the idea would be to allow those who want to stand to be able to by offering certain sections of the stadium to them. If you don't want to stand you buy a ticket in a seated area.

though it isn't just about atmosphere. The safe standing option is safer than standing in a seated area - which is something that happens in every football ground in this country yet we all choose to ignore.

Offline Trada

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #84 on: May 11, 2011, 07:16:11 PM »
Look at the pictures above. The ones of the new style terracing. One person to a designed area.

How could that be more dangerous than having a load of seats where people stand most of the games anyway....i.e. The Kop.

Why do people want standing? I can understand owners wanting it back they can squeeze more people into the ground.
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Offline Cesar

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #85 on: May 11, 2011, 07:16:11 PM »
That's the obvious difference between old style terracing and new style terracing?

That is what you see?

i mean the difference between what we have now, i.e. seats that everyone stands in front of anyway.

Offline mtred1984

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #86 on: May 11, 2011, 07:16:21 PM »
Yep instead of worrying if your knee id going to wack the person infronts head

Offline uwinsa

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #87 on: May 11, 2011, 07:17:29 PM »
some people prefer to stand, the idea would be to allow those who want to stand to be able to by offering certain sections of the stadium to them. If you don't want to stand you buy a ticket in a seated area.

though it isn't just about atmosphere. The safe standing option is safer than standing in a seated area - which is something that happens in every football ground in this country yet we all choose to ignore.

Just asking a question I genulinly dont know the ansawer to because as I stated earlier I havent made up my mind what I think yet. Has standing in a seated area ever been proved/suspected to be a contribuatry factor in a serious accident/incident?

Offline Classic goal

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #88 on: May 11, 2011, 07:19:38 PM »
Why do people want standing? I can understand owners wanting it back they can squeeze more people into the ground.

some people do for their own reasons. some believe it is safer, some think it makes for a better atmosphere. If you don't want to be in the safe standing area you don't have to buy a ticket for it. but your second sentence just proves that you have not looked into what safe standing is. The safe standing areas have a capacity linked to the number of seats. Just like the current offer in all seater stadia.

Offline Zanchent

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #89 on: May 11, 2011, 07:20:16 PM »


Are you incapable of speaking for yourself?

Offline kiNki

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #90 on: May 11, 2011, 07:21:39 PM »
How could this be any more dangerous than what is in place?

were you at athens?

i'm sure its hunkydory if managed correctly, but quite clearly you can have excessive amounts of people in each and every row, unless there's a way to prevent that.   

Offline Frank.

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #91 on: May 11, 2011, 07:23:14 PM »
The reintroduction of Safe standing would be brilliant. I doubt even if it comes back in England it would ever be reintroduced at Anfield which I do understand. Say at Anfield though, if you make only the Kop half or full standing it then gives people the option (Particularly those with Children) to sit in a seated area. Yet those who want to stand and those who already stand in the Kop are able to do so in a more safe and better designed way than which they can now.

The German model is perfect, the majority of Bundesliga grounds have way less than 1/4 standing which again meets the needs of both those who wish to sit or stand. Also within these German Safe Standing areas there have been no reported casualties due to the standing. Yet just at Bolton Away this year a young lad with the travelling kop cracked his head. When Maxi scored it caused a slight surge, and due to a seat being in his way and not the standing designed bars, he fell right over and hit his head on concrete below.

I could write more, but I can't be bothered. Anyone who says it's not as safe as the current model where lets face it at every club it happens, people stand in seated areas then they don't know what they're talking about.

Offline redbyrdz

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #92 on: May 11, 2011, 07:23:41 PM »

Im sure the headline of that said "terracing".
Anyway, when you look at what he's actually saying, he mentions "properly looked after". There's no reason a safe standing area would be any less looked after than seated areas are now.


At Hillsborough there were too many people in one stand. The answer to that is restrict access to an area and let only as many people in as the place will hold. It doesn't matter if the area is seated or not, what matters is that there are no more people there than it is designed for.
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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #93 on: May 11, 2011, 07:23:46 PM »
were you at athens?

i'm sure its hunkydory if managed correctly, but quite clearly you can have excessive amounts of people in each and every row, unless there's a way to prevent that.

The technology used today makes it virtually impossible to bunk in.

Offline bonzer red

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #94 on: May 11, 2011, 07:24:49 PM »
Its easy for us to want safe standing at a game but considering what happened at hillsborough, I personally don't think we should bring it back, and i'm gobsmacked that some of our fans are even open for discussing this, do you not see the heart break its brings every April the 15th for the families, plus imagine having the memorial service on an all standing kop, i know you have the option to sit if you want but still, a slap in the face for them it would be, it can't happen and should never happen in my opinion
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Offline Frank.

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #95 on: May 11, 2011, 07:25:00 PM »
were you at athens?

i'm sure its hunkydory if managed correctly, but quite clearly you can have excessive amounts of people in each and every row, unless there's a way to prevent that.   

Well, it's the same as the seated model in which you get allocated a 'seat number' so to speak and you go stand there. Of course numerous people could fit in one row but at Arsenal away in a seated area there was about 3 person per seat in the row I was in. Same case scenario wherever there's standing no matter in what type of area it is.

Offline BHB

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #96 on: May 11, 2011, 07:27:02 PM »
A few thoughts on this:
 
I never want to see a return to terracing at football. More than anything else though, I never want to see a fence erected in front of any stand of supporters. Ever. They are the key points for me, and ones I think those in favour of standing at football should be fully supportive of. That’s only my opinion of course, and one I’ll be happy to air at this meeting.
 
Before Hillsborough and The Taylor Report, the Safety Guidelines that football grounds had to adhere to were worthless and pathetic. Big open terraces, inadequate numbers of turnstiles to cope with fans access and egress from stadiums and very little control over crowd movements. There was never any focus on those areas, mainly as we football fans were thought of us cattle and treated as such. The fact that Sheffield Wednesday’s Safety Certificate for their ground had expired 10 years before Hillsborough highlights how much focus was placed on our safety back then.
 
It took 96 deaths to change all that. But remember that 56 deaths in Bradford only 4 years before Hillsborough didn’t trigger any changes. Fans died at Bradford as they were trapped in the stand and unable to escape the fire by accessing the pitch or exiting through gates at the back of the stand that were locked and trapped them in. 4 years later 96 fans lost their lives as they were unable to access the pitch to escape the crushing. 56 fans lost their lives and still the authorities didn’t change their approach in how they managed football crowds. Now this bit is key:
 
56 lives were lost in the seats at Bradford
 
96 lives were lost on the terrace at Hillsborough
 
152 lives in total were lost as the result of fencing preventing fans from accessing the pitch and escaping. That for me, is as clear as it comes. One statement that we should all be right behind – and I know certain people within the Hillsborough Groups have the same opinion – NO TO FENCES!
 
It wasn’t just fences though that resulted in those deaths, as we all know too well, but it is inescapable that without those fences in place, nobody would have died; fans would have been able to access the playing field and lives would have been saved. I don’t see how anybody could ever dispute that.
 
Now compare all modern stadiums and their layout to that of Hillsborough.
 
The Leppings Lane had 7 turnstiles to omit over 10,000 fans – and I’m pretty sure that the same turnstiles were also used to omit fans using the side stand as well, so more than 10,000 fans had to enter through those turnstiles. Compare that to The Kop we enter today. The Kop holds 12,500 fans and I’m pretty sure there are 36 turnstiles to service that stand alone. Quite a difference.
 
On entering The Kop, there are 3 different levels, with clearly signed blocks which fans are allocated tickets for. There is vast space underneath the stands on the concourses, stewards available on every entrance / exit and CCTV in operation all over the ground. The number of people entering via the turnstiles, their rate of entry etc is all recorded and monitored for every game. If there is any sign of more people entering through the turnstiles than accounted for, it’s there in black and white in the control room and turnstiles can be closed down to prevent anybody else entering. It is pretty much impossible for there to be any chance of crushing / overcrowding in a properly managed modern stadium (see Athens for a poorly managed all-seater stadium and what can go wrong).
 
Now contrast that with Hillsborough.
 
On entering through one of the 7 turnstiles, you were greeted with a tunnel, forcing everyone into the central pens behind the goal. It was unclear where to go if you wanted to go to the outer pens, there were no stewards directing people, no crowd controls in place and most costly of all, fences at the front of the stand meaning those in those central pens had no means in which to escape.
 
Did it matter if there were seats or a terrace at the end of that tunnel? Not in my eyes. The key issues were the lack of turnstiles resulting in a crush outside, the lack of crowd control techniques resulting in poor policing decisions being made, the poor infrastructure of the stand itself in coping with large crowds, and the fences at the front of the stands penning fans in. In my opinion, the fact fans were standing had absolutely nothing to do with why 96 fans lost their lives. All the other points I mentioned contributed massively.
 
Post Hillsborough and The Taylor Report, many changes were made to how the games, grounds etc were regulated. The main one being the implementation of all seater stadiums, and this is the one that everybody focuses on and the main change people associate with the Taylor Report; for me though, the changes that have improved our safety more than any other are not talked about anywhere near as much.
 
The Green Guide detailing specifications that all grounds must conform to, all stewards having to have NVQ’s etc. Our current stadiums have never been safer, and to me, that is as a result of those changes, not the fact that seats have been installed.
 
But looking forward:
 
What we have now are stadiums that are as safe as they have ever been. Within those stadiums, thousands upon thousands of us stand in them for 90 minutes to watch our football week in week out. We do so because we enjoy doing so and because we feel safe in doing so. What I would like to see is the authorities helping us make our grounds even safer again.
 
The word “terrace” should never be mentioned when we talk about standing at football. It’s in the past and should stay there. What we should be pushing for the is the “Safe Standing” areas with Rail seats / combi seats as seen in most German grounds. They are pretty much identical to what we have now, only we’d have a rail / bar in front of our current seats and we’d be able to stand in that space (as we do now anyway), but being allowed to do so in a safer environment where there can be no crowd surge due to the rails being in place.
 
There would be no possibility of overcrowding due to the measures discussed before (increased number of turnstiles, better crowd control techniques, CCTV, signage etc), and even if every one of those measures failed (which they wouldn’t), then we have no fences in our stadiums any more and fans would be able to escape onto the pitch.
 
I can’t think of any logical reason to oppose the introduction of rail seats in our grounds.
 
That’s the debate we need to be having – who opposes the introduction of rail seats, and why.
 
Looking forward to having the debate! 
A Son of Shankly

Offline BIGdavalad

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #97 on: May 11, 2011, 07:27:45 PM »
were you at athens?

i'm sure its hunkydory if managed correctly, but quite clearly you can have excessive amounts of people in each and every row, unless there's a way to prevent that.   

You have numbered tickets exactly as we have now when everyone stands in front of their seat on the Kop.

I personally don't see how this is any more dangerous than a big European night at Anfield with everyone stood in front of their much smaller, much easier to fall over, much less safely set out plastic seat. The Kop has x,000 safe standing spaces, x,000 tickets are sold for the Kop and only x,000 people can enter the Kop. It's not really any more likely that you'd get excessive numbers in a single row than it is now in a big game with everyone standing. How would the stewards stop that now? Whatever they'd do now would be what they'd do for safe standing in the (potential) future.
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Offline redbyrdz

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #98 on: May 11, 2011, 07:28:20 PM »
i mean the difference between what we have now, i.e. seats that everyone stands in front of anyway.
There is more space. And no negotiating between people who want to sit and those who want to stand. You can't sit in a standing area (apart from on the floor). If you don't want to stand, get your ticket somewhere else.

Also, you can stand with your mates if all of you have tickets for the same area, but you don't need to buy tickets next to each other, because you can move about.
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Offline Classic goal

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #99 on: May 11, 2011, 07:28:21 PM »
Just asking a question I genulinly dont know the ansawer to because as I stated earlier I havent made up my mind what I think yet. Has standing in a seated area ever been proved/suspected to be a contribuatry factor in a serious accident/incident?

This is one i could think of from recently

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/03/20/football-fan-in-serious-condition-after-falling-20ft-while-celebrating-a-goal-115875-23001914/

I've seen plenty of injuries from people over celebrating and toppling over rows in lower tiers. At the fa cup final in 2001 my dad was sent flying over the next three rows after someone fell on him. His glasses smashed and he was lucky not to cut his face.

were you at athens?

i'm sure its hunkydory if managed correctly, but quite clearly you can have excessive amounts of people in each and every row, unless there's a way to prevent that.   

that is good point but it happens at every away game lads having tickets for different rows and jumping together on the same one. I can't offer a way to prevent it, but the debate could generate something. I think if it's going to happen it'd be better to have it in an area with more standing space in the rows and a bar at stomach height to stop people falling over.

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #100 on: May 11, 2011, 07:29:48 PM »
Its easy for us to want safe standing at a game but considering what happened at hillsborough, I personally don't think we should bring it back, and i'm gobsmacked that some of our fans are even open for discussing this, do you not see the heart break its brings every April the 15th for the families, plus imagine having the memorial service on an all standing kop, i know you have the option to sit if you want but still, a slap in the face for them it would be, it can't happen and should never happen in my opinion
Are you suggesting people don't currently stand at matches?

This is not about insulting anyone, particularly the 96 and their families and friends. Safe standing is not terracing. It shouldn't be taken as an insult, as it is not remotely like it. You could saying playing football again and following our team is an insult too, but its not. Bringing back terracing, allowing people to flow into sections of the stadium unchecked, and erecting a fence in front of the pitch would be an insult, and should never ever happen. But again, this is not safe standing.

Offline paulsheridan08

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #101 on: May 11, 2011, 07:31:47 PM »
i wouldnt like to see standing again after what happened at hillsborough but i dont see why fans gets done for persistant standing now at games??, ive never seen a fan get hurt or injured doing this and with the seats still in place hillsborough wont happen again so in my thoughts for standing,  never bring it back but as for persistant standing i dont see this as a threat at all and if fans want to persistant stand they should. if fans want to complain about this then why not have a stand for people who want to stand and the rest for those who want to sit.

Offline Cesar

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #102 on: May 11, 2011, 07:33:01 PM »
There is more space. And no negotiating between people who want to sit and those who want to stand. You can't sit in a standing area (apart from on the floor). If you don't want to stand, get your ticket somewhere else.

Also, you can stand with your mates if all of you have tickets for the same area, but you don't need to buy tickets next to each other, because you can move about.

I'd probably be a lot more comfortable with that to be honest. I never liked the idea that if I needed to leave my seat then the entire row of people would have to stand up to let me out.

maybe that's just me being a massive quilt, like.

thinking about it though, judging on your description and the idea anyone can go stand by their mates, would this set-up only really work as safe if every single fan adhered to the one person-per-allocated 'seat' rule? I know it's near impossible to bunk in, but that wouldn't stop large groups of people wanted to move for a better view of be with their mates, meaning some areas could become overcrowded? or am I way off?
« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 07:40:46 PM by Cesar »

Offline Frank.

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #103 on: May 11, 2011, 07:34:06 PM »
i wouldnt like to see standing again after what happened at hillsborough but i dont see why fans gets done for persistant standing now at games??, ive never seen a fan get hurt or injured doing this and with the seats still in place hillsborough wont happen again so in my thoughts for standing,  never bring it back but as for persistant standing i dont see this as a threat at all and if fans want to persistant stand they should. if fans want to complain about this then why not have a stand for people who want to stand and the rest for those who want to sit.

You don't have a clue do you?

Offline uwinsa

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #104 on: May 11, 2011, 07:34:44 PM »
There is more space. And no negotiating between people who want to sit and those who want to stand. You can't sit in a standing area (apart from on the floor). If you don't want to stand, get your ticket somewhere else.

Also, you can stand with your mates if all of you have tickets for the same area, but you don't need to buy tickets next to each other, because you can move about.

I think you've just contradicted yourself, on 1 hand you said it's no different to now you stand in front of your allocated seat and on the other you say you can move about and stand where you like

Offline paulsheridan08

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #105 on: May 11, 2011, 07:35:26 PM »
persistant standing still continues at away games and big games in the kop.

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #106 on: May 11, 2011, 07:35:31 PM »
Is the generation of atmosphere more important than safety? If you think yes then quite frankly I unapologetically think that you are an idiot.

No it isn't more important. But the idea of safe standing is that it should be that it is the best of both worlds. I am completely 100% against terracing, but to me 'safe standing' would make the Kop no less safe than today.

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #107 on: May 11, 2011, 07:35:52 PM »
To be fair I don't think the terraces were to blame at Hillsborough. It was the massive fences and the awful police.

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #108 on: May 11, 2011, 07:35:52 PM »
Well, it's the same as the seated model in which you get allocated a 'seat number' so to speak and you go stand there. Of course numerous people could fit in one row but at Arsenal away in a seated area there was about 3 person per seat in the row I was in. Same case scenario wherever there's standing no matter in what type of area it is.

quite. It already happens. He asked and i gave a answer of how it could be worse.

Introducing the safe standing model - should see an increase of policing and stewards but somehow i doubt clubs, having forked out for the new model, having seen a reduction in capacity to accomodate safe standing, will also shell out for the extra policing needed.

whats the stat half the clubs in the premiership are upto their eyeballs in debt.

Offline Frank.

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #109 on: May 11, 2011, 07:37:13 PM »
quite. It already happens. He asked and i gave a answer of how it could be worse.

Introducing the safe standing model - should see an increase of policing and stewards but somehow i doubt clubs, having forked out for the new model, having seen a reduction in capacity to accomodate safe standing, will also shell out for the extra policing needed.

whats the stat half the clubs in the premiership are upto their eyeballs in debt.

Yep fair enough I agree with the money problems etc. But if they generate extra money from the extra fans in the ground then it shouldn't be too bad.

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #110 on: May 11, 2011, 07:39:25 PM »
Everyone stands away - wouldn't a modern standing area be safer than standing in a seating area?

If my assistant had not signalled a goal, I would have given a penalty and sent off goalkeeper Patr Cheh. he beeped me to signal the foul. The noise from the crowd  stopped me hearing it, I have been involved at places like Barcelona, Ibrox, Old Trafford, Arsenal, but I've never in my life been involved in such an atmosphere. IT WAS INCREDIBLE

Offline Classic goal

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #111 on: May 11, 2011, 07:39:48 PM »
I think you've just contradicted yourself, on 1 hand you said it's no different to now you stand in front of your allocated seat and on the other you say you can move about and stand where you like

it is a contradiction and i would be against anything that condoned or even allowed people to move from around like that. You shouldn't be allowed to to just wander to whatever space you want. You get your seat number and you should stay to it.

Yep fair enough I agree with the money problems etc. But if they generate extra money from the extra fans in the ground then it shouldn't be too bad.

what extra fans? they would probably have to reduce capacity to do this. and if a stand isn't suitable for standing e.g. if the rake of the stand is too steep/too shallow, then they shouldn't put in safe standing there.

Offline Frank.

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #112 on: May 11, 2011, 07:41:48 PM »
it is a contradiction and i would be against anything that condoned or even allowed people to move from around like that. You shouldn't be allowed to to just wander to whatever space you want. You get your seat number and you should stay to it.

what extra fans? they would probably have to reduce capacity to do this. and if a stand isn't suitable for standing e.g. if the rake of the stand is too steep/too shallow, then they shouldn't put in safe standing there.

You actually get more fans in for standing, as people don't need as much space to put a seat down. I think in the picture Nich is posting you get 2 people per row.

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #113 on: May 11, 2011, 07:42:28 PM »
At Hillsborough there were too many people in one stand.

I'm sorry, but that is uninformed nonsense
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Offline Classic goal

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #114 on: May 11, 2011, 07:44:09 PM »
You actually get more fans in for standing, as people don't need as much space to put a seat down. I think in the picture Nich is posting you get 2 people per row.

we're interpreting that photo differently then. When I stood there it was one row of people per row, they didn't squeeze in two rows of people per row. one person per seat is how it should work.

Offline uwinsa

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #115 on: May 11, 2011, 07:44:58 PM »
You actually get more fans in for standing, as people don't need as much space to put a seat down. I think in the picture Nich is posting you get 2 people per row.

I can see you would in a new stand built for that purpose but would you if you adapted a current stand, if theres more space between seats how could you get the same number of seats in?

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #116 on: May 11, 2011, 07:46:06 PM »
I'm sorry, but that is uninformed nonsense
?

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #117 on: May 11, 2011, 07:49:15 PM »
?

I think what he means is that there were too many people in 1 pen not too many people in the stand

Offline bonzer red

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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #118 on: May 11, 2011, 07:49:55 PM »
Are you suggesting people don't currently stand at matches?

This is not about insulting anyone, particularly the 96 and their families and friends. Safe standing is not terracing. It shouldn't be taken as an insult, as it is not remotely like it. You could saying playing football again and following our team is an insult too, but its not. Bringing back terracing, allowing people to flow into sections of the stadium unchecked, and erecting a fence in front of the pitch would be an insult, and should never ever happen. But again, this is not safe standing.

I know people stand at matches, its not allowed though but they still do it. thats not the point i'm trying to make, my opinion is that it don't matter if its safe or not, its still standing, i don't think we should have it at anfield, considering what happened.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 07:56:09 PM by bonzer red »
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Re: Safe Standing Meeting Liverpool
« Reply #119 on: May 11, 2011, 07:52:14 PM »
You actually get more fans in for standing, as people don't need as much space to put a seat down. I think in the picture Nich is posting you get 2 people per row.

Yes you can get two people per row cos there is two steps but there is only one seat = which should equal one spec. That should mean a reduction in capacity.  For instance there are approx 12000 seated in the kop (one spec on one step) i think if you put the new model in, covering the whole kop, you'd have a capacity of approx 6000.

No matter how the debate goes i dont think its a goer for cost reasons alone.