Author Topic: The Royal Wedding (Read 30019 times)

And Could He Play · « **Reply #1960 on:** May 1, 2011, 10:00:40 PM »

Quote from: One of these on May 1, 2011, 09:59:46 PM

Somewhere we've paid for mate

very true

its cold in the stands · « **Reply #1961 on:** May 1, 2011, 10:06:30 PM »

Quote from: Alan_F on May 1, 2011, 09:46:47 PM

You do know that the Royal Family traces their family tree back to the Garden of Eden and ultimately to God, and that they rule over us by divine right?

the royal family we have now struggle to even trace their ancestory back to william the conqueror, never mind the early kings like canute and alfred of wessex (he who burnt the cakes)
when the saxe-coburg gotha`s arrived over 70 people had more of a claim to the throne than them, i think they traced the `proper` king or queen for a telly program not so long ago and he (or she, cant remember now)was living in australia.

helmboy_nige · « **Reply #1962 on:** May 1, 2011, 10:06:38 PM »

Quote from: Tonyh on May 1, 2011, 09:59:18 PM

Alan have to disagree somewhat, Andrew, Charles, William & Harry have all been in the forces and at least 2 have served in a war zone. William and Harry are still serving their time, Will isnt even taking his honeymooon. Any other family would be applauded, and dont forget an uncle was blown up by the IRA. They have tons of benefits but they also understand duty.

With regard to the economy, I am in the same boat as you but see this as a credit in the bank as you cannot buy the free quality advertising UK PLC has had in the last week. Next year will be superb tourism wise and Liverpool will benefit hugely.

Very true. And with next year being the jubilee get ready for another massive party and advertisement for UK PLC.

Cusamano · « **Reply #1963 on:** May 1, 2011, 10:07:30 PM »

This might sound stupid but what will Kate Middleton do now?

She "worked" for the family business selling party items before she was married but thats hardly suitable for someone who is married to the future king.

Ziltoid · « **Reply #1964 on:** May 1, 2011, 10:08:08 PM »

Quote from: Tonyh on May 1, 2011, 09:59:18 PM

Alan have to disagree somewhat, Andrew, Charles, William & Harry have all been in the forces and at least 2 have served in a war zone. William and Harry are still serving their time, Will isnt even taking his honeymooon. Any other family would be applauded, and dont forget an uncle was blown up by the IRA. They have tons of benefits but they also understand duty.

With regard to the economy, I am in the same boat as you but see this as a credit in the bank as you cannot buy the free quality advertising UK PLC has had in the last week. Next year will be superb tourism wise and Liverpool will benefit hugely.

When you see this huge benefit can you throw £50K my way please, because i can't see anything at all on the horizon that's going to benefit SME's.

Tonyh · « **Reply #1965 on:** May 1, 2011, 10:09:37 PM »

Quote from: helmboy_nige on May 1, 2011, 09:52:36 PM

Of course not. You can dislike something or think it's bad for the country as much as you like, but people saying those who want a Royal Family should pay and those who don't shouldn't is ludicrous, because the same could be said for anything in that case.

On the bank holiday point I do actually agree with those saying it shouldn't have been a public holiday. Govt should have kept it as a normal day.

I think you might find that a lot of employers had Friday as a normal day. A lot of contracts of employment are for 28 days annual leave including all bank holidays so it will count as part of annual leave.

GBF · « **Reply #1966 on:** May 1, 2011, 10:15:26 PM »

Quote from: Cusamano on May 1, 2011, 10:07:30 PM

This might sound stupid but what will Kate Middleton do now?

She "worked" for the family business selling party items before she was married but thats hardly suitable for someone who is married to the future king.

too easy! she will be appearing on all Diana's old charity work photos and everyone will be saying "awwww...she is just like Diana"

Alan_X · « **Reply #1967 on:** May 1, 2011, 10:25:22 PM »

Quote from: BIGdavalad on May 1, 2011, 09:57:45 PM

I think the Divine Right of Kings went out with Charles I Alan.

That's part of my beef with it all Dava - if Charles or William stuffed a load of snooker balls in a sock, walked into the House of Commons, leathered the Prime Minister around the head and shouted "who's the fucking Daddy!" I might have a bit more time for them. They're just so fucking desperate to be seen as middle class.

I do a lot of exhibitions and two of the most interesting were on Holbein and on Van Dyck. The first was full of paintings of the Tudors and Henry the Eighth in particular, along with Thomas More and a whole host of powerful scheming heavyweights... move forward a few hundred years and we're onto Charles the First - a simpering fop whose incompetence as King almost spelled the death knell of the monarchy. There was a point to Kings five hundred years ago but as society develops that need diminishes. Some countries are fortunate enough to do away with their monarchy and some simply sideline them like Denmark and Holland. There's a case for saying that the King performed a vital role in WW2 (although his brother might have performed an equally significant role in a diametrically opposite direction) but Presidents of France and the US provided equally important rallying points for their own countries. And the current Queen (as I've said) has been a key part of British Government for 50 years. I just don't see the point of Charles or his kids in the 21st Century.

Tonyh · « **Reply #1968 on:** May 1, 2011, 10:33:13 PM »

Is it easier to have than not to have and does it give people comfort? You would think that Australia was the ultimate "young" country, but even they cannot agree to get rid of the monarchy.

Nofliesonfrank · « **Reply #1969 on:** May 1, 2011, 10:36:05 PM »

Quote from: Alan_F on May 1, 2011, 10:25:22 PM

There's a case for saying that the King performed a vital role in WW2 (although his brother might have performed an equally significant role in a diametrically opposite direction) but Presidents of France and the US provided equally important rallying points for their own countries. And the current Queen (as I've said) has been a key part of British Government for 50 years. I just don't see the point of Charles or his kids in the 21st Century.

Presidents have ALWAYS been divisive. Even if they a simply heads of state, because they are elected they can be used as tools against one side of the political divide or the other.

As far as America goes, there has never been a President who has truly unified this country. It's a myth. Our presidents have always had strong enemies. Lincoln was hated by half the country, they went to war over him! And yet he is seen as one of our greatest and most unifying Presidents. The nation rallied in WWII but FDR was strongly hated and even feared by a huge section of the country. We rallied around our presidents as national symbols of unity, but not as men. We were really rallying around the Constitution itself, which I think is our true head of state.

scatman · « **Reply #1970 on:** May 1, 2011, 10:41:18 PM »

The last monarch who actually had any importance in the affairs of the kingdom was probably William III who actually led British and Allied armies into battle during his reign being a top general of his time. You could probably make a case of George III too who regularly changed things in parliament but since then, there does not seem to have been any use for a monarch who no longer has the 'Divine Right of Kings'.

Nofliesonfrank · « **Reply #1971 on:** May 1, 2011, 10:51:22 PM »

Quote from: rapcage on May 1, 2011, 10:41:18 PM

The last monarch who actually had any importance in the affairs of the kingdom was probably William III who actually led British and Allied armies into battle during his reign being a top general of his time. You could probably make a case of George III too who regularly changed things in parliament but since then, there does not seem to have been any use for a monarch who no longer has the 'Divine Right of Kings'.

I think "Divine Right of Kings" was always a myth. Monarchies in medieval times and beyond were never dictatorships. They always had to rule by some kind of consensus from people with regional and local power or their throne was lost. They were never as powerful as say, the dictators of the 20th century were.

Without factoring the "divine right of kings" you could say that monarchies play the same role today as they did then, that is they are a unifying and personal representation of government.

Alan_X · « **Reply #1972 on:** May 1, 2011, 10:54:06 PM »

Quote from: helmboy_nige on May 1, 2011, 10:06:38 PM

Very true. And with next year being the jubilee get ready for another massive party and advertisement for UK PLC.

Sorry but what the fuck is UK PLC and how is another long bank holiday an advert for business? Our business competitors must piss themselves laughing at our obsession with Royalty while they get on with manufacturing actual products instead of selling plastic tat made in China.

its cold in the stands · « **Reply #1973 on:** May 1, 2011, 10:57:10 PM »

Quote from: Nofliesonfrank on May 1, 2011, 10:51:22 PM

I think "Divine Right of Kings" was always a myth. Monarchies in medieval times and beyond were never dictatorships. They always had to rule by some kind of consensus from people with regional and local power or their throne was lost. They were never as powerful as say, the dictators of the 20th century were.

Without factoring the "divine right of kings" you could say that monarchies play the same role today as they did then, that is they are a unifying and personal representation of government.

but they also represent a class system which has held this nation back socially for centuries.

grifter · « **Reply #1974 on:** May 1, 2011, 10:58:08 PM »

Quote from: BIGdavalad on April 30, 2011, 10:07:18 PM

Direct from the Crown Estates website. The Crown Estates provided income to the Monarch to run the country in the days when taxation was rare and could not provide the income needed to run the country. These days the income from the Crown Estates is dwarfed by what is brought in by taxation.

Who owns The Crown Estate?

"The Crown Estate belongs to the reigning monarch ‘in right of The Crown’, that is, it is inherent with the accession to the throne. But it is not the private property of the monarch – it cannot be sold by the monarch, nor do revenues from it belong to the sovereign."

Still on topic , what a toady , insincere , sycophantic , bed-wetting shitbag.

Nofliesonfrank · « **Reply #1975 on:** May 1, 2011, 11:15:37 PM »

Quote from: its cold in the stands on May 1, 2011, 10:57:10 PM

but they also represent a class system which has held this nation back socially for centuries.

Class systems exist all over the world. Nothing is really going to change that. We don't have monarchy in America and we have a class system too. You can project and blame that class system on whomever and whatever you want.

If anything the monarchy provided the solid political and social cohesion which enabled the massive political and social reforms in Britain in the 19th and 20th centuries. Instead of anarchy and revolution, your changes were accomplished through solid and thoughtful reforms united by a common loyalty. It's something more to add to Britain's enormous historical legacy.

Tonyh · « **Reply #1976 on:** May 1, 2011, 11:18:39 PM »

Quote from: Alan_F on May 1, 2011, 10:54:06 PM

Sorry but what the fuck is UK PLC and how is another long bank holiday an advert for business? Our business competitors must piss themselves laughing at our obsession with Royalty while they get on with manufacturing actual products instead of selling plastic tat made in China.

Its not our obsession with Royalty but the rest of the worlds obsession. You only had to count the 1000's of overseas journalists and tv crews. Come on Alan, UK PLC is a well known business phrase for the UK as a working community. Also it is not the bank holiday that is the advert for business but the pictures of a population that is integrated, at ease with itself and forward looking. Sales wise, Aston Martin for one must think it is Christmas!

its cold in the stands · « **Reply #1977 on:** May 1, 2011, 11:51:43 PM »

Quote from: Nofliesonfrank on May 1, 2011, 11:15:37 PM

Class systems exist all over the world. Nothing is really going to change that. We don't have monarchy in America and we have a class system too. You can project and blame that class system on whomever and whatever you want.

If anything the monarchy provided the solid political and social cohesion which enabled the massive political and social reforms in Britain in the 19th and 20th centuries. Instead of anarchy and revolution, your changes were accomplished through solid and thoughtful reforms united by a common loyalty. It's something more to add to Britain's enormous historical legacy.

you need to read up on british history mate.

Alan_X · « **Reply #1978 on:** May 2, 2011, 12:00:47 AM »

Quote from: Tonyh on May 1, 2011, 11:18:39 PM

Its not our obsession with Royalty but the rest of the worlds obsession. You only had to count the 1000's of overseas journalists and tv crews. Come on Alan, UK PLC is a well known business phrase for the UK as a working community. Also it is not the bank holiday that is the advert for business but the pictures of a population that is integrated, at ease with itself and forward looking. Sales wise, Aston Martin for one must think it is Christmas!

I know it's a well known media phrase but it's completely meaningless. I don't know why anyone would think a prince getting married and travelling back to the Palace in a horse drawn carriage is representative of a forward looking country, especially when 'commoners' are made to stand in the streets and the audience is predominantly White.

John C · « **Reply #1979 on:** May 2, 2011, 01:10:32 AM »

Quote from: The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society on May 1, 2011, 08:52:40 PM

can't think of anything more ghastly than having pride in where you were born and/or brought up like as if you had a conscious choice in the matter.

Are you serious? Putting aside the horrid trouble cause by being brought up in an area taught to hate another area. I'm not looking for an argument here, but are you saying we are neither scouse or English or westerners, we are just people?

Velky Al · « **Reply #1980 on:** May 2, 2011, 01:44:59 AM »

Quote from: SamAteTheRedAcid on May 1, 2011, 02:27:01 PM

Because we pay for the Royal Family, no? Usually I want something in return for my money.

we will also be paying for the Olympics, what are you hoping to get from that?

The idea that we somehow "pay" the Royal Family is far more complicated than a simple case of being supported by the taxpayer. Likewise the idea that the Royal Family do nothing but sit around enjoyed their luxury is simply ludicrous, the amount of unseen work that they do promoting British interests in the wider world and supporting charitable endeavours is remarkable.

Nofliesonfrank · « **Reply #1981 on:** May 2, 2011, 01:59:07 AM »

Quote from: its cold in the stands on May 1, 2011, 11:51:43 PM

you need to read up on british history mate.

I'm a history major at college. British history has been my passion since I was a child. Britain is part unique because many of it's greatest political developments, whether it was the great reforms in the 1820s and 30s, or Gladstone's extending of the franchise, or Atlee in the 1940s, they came not at the will of the mob (but close) but from an orderly transition with the rule of law. Britain has always been known for having an orderly society right? And Britain's government around the world is admired for it's stability and has been for a long time. Certainly a stable monarchy can be thanked in part for that, right?

Nofliesonfrank · « **Reply #1982 on:** May 2, 2011, 02:08:31 AM »

Quote from: Alan_F on May 2, 2011, 12:00:47 AM

I know it's a well known media phrase but it's completely meaningless. I don't know why anyone would think a prince getting married and travelling back to the Palace in a horse drawn carriage is representative of a forward looking country, especially when 'commoners' are made to stand in the streets and the audience is predominantly White.

No one "made" anyone stand in the street and wave. And I saw plenty of minorities in the crowds.

You might think all those people on The Mall are sick and ignorant, but the joy of them being there was that they WANTED to be there. They weren't there because they wanted to play the poor ignorant commoners in the royal families' global show.

People have more self-respect i would think in Britain-Royalists or Republicans- than to just think of themselves as the poor helpless commoners to an overbearing ruling class. I don't think anyone was at The Mall thinking "We're not worthy oh great Windsor family." They were happy to be congratulating a man that we have all seen grow up who will one day be an important symbol and representative for the nation.

alfonso · « **Reply #1983 on:** May 2, 2011, 07:21:54 AM »

Someone sent me this alternative view to the Royals

Secrets of the Royal Wedding Exposed!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/-I3l7wYmUyU" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/-I3l7wYmUyU</a>

BIGdavalad · « **Reply #1984 on:** May 2, 2011, 09:02:42 AM »

Quote from: alfonso on May 2, 2011, 07:21:54 AM

Someone sent me this alternative view to the Royals

Secrets of the Royal Wedding Exposed!

He starts badly by calling George III a German King (he was born in London). American Independence was about resistance to the House of Windsor? For a start, George III was from the House of Hannover and wasn't the War of Independence more about taxation being levied without political representation? Not sure why he drags the poor Saxe-Coburgs into it either, they didn't enter the British Monarchy until Prince Albert married Victoria and their son Edward was the first Monarch of the UK with that name.

Prince Philip is a Germanic supporter of Nazism? That'll be why he was decorated for bravery in the Mediterranean fighting Nazism with the Royal Navy then?

Let's be honest, the fat c*nt can't do the basic research right. He's talking shite and deep down even you know it. It happens to fit your views though so that doesn't matter, does it?

MichaelA · « **Reply #1985 on:** May 2, 2011, 09:07:59 AM »

Quote from: Alan_F on May 1, 2011, 10:20:11 AM

Cheers Andy - no offence and excuse the colourful language but of course I factor in bank fucking holidays and annual fucking leave. Of course one day won't break the company but it'll cost me as a small business owner over a thousand pounds in salaries, overheads and National Insurance and probably double that in lost productivity. So not really a "free day off". (And by the way - pretty much everyone I know took the time off to fuck off out of the country and away from the wedding so what was the point?)

It's not a legal requirement to observe the Bank Holiday or pay your staff to take the day off, provided that you already cover the minimum statutory holiday entitlement.

redmachine · « **Reply #1986 on:** May 2, 2011, 09:34:42 AM »

Quote from: MichaelA on May 2, 2011, 09:07:59 AM

It's not a legal requirement to observe the Bank Holiday or pay your staff to take the day off, provided that you already cover the minimum statutory holiday entitlement.

pwned.

Andy @ Allerton · « **Reply #1987 on:** May 2, 2011, 09:44:09 AM »

Quote from: gritsvanilla on May 1, 2011, 04:24:26 PM

Go on then quote me where i tell people what they can and cannot watch, good luck with that.

"Btw anyone who watched one minute of this charade needs their fucking heads testing."

Andy @ Allerton · « **Reply #1988 on:** May 2, 2011, 09:45:41 AM »

Quote from: Alan_F on May 1, 2011, 02:06:30 PM

What do you mean - even my employees? Snidey little dig and completely unnecessary.

Snidey?

You have a personal problem. It's cost you money. Fair enough. I can see where you are coming from. But your employees have been granted a holiday off. Surely you don't begrudge them that time off when everyone else gets it?

Andy @ Allerton · « **Reply #1989 on:** May 2, 2011, 09:47:42 AM »

Quote from: Alan_F on May 1, 2011, 09:46:47 PM

The Royal Family, the aristocracy, the class system system and the honours (by extension) are all based on the fundamental principle that some people are worth more than others through birth. It doesn't honour excellence. There's nothing excellent about Charles, Andrew, William, Harry, Edward, Eugenie etc... The Queen has been a good head of state but that's through accident not design and Anne happened to be a pretty good horsewoman...

America has had some shit Presidents but it has had some great ones too, same as France and many other democracies. Until William & Kate have kids we are one horrific plane crash away from having Prince Andrew as our next King.

Oh and most people on here aren't clamouring for Kenny to get a knight hood.

You do know that the Royal Family traces their family tree back to the Garden of Eden and ultimately to God, and that they rule over us by divine right?

See that's where the Royal Family makes no sense to me. Either they are superior beings who are different and special... or they aren't in which case why are they in such a position of privilege.

You can't have it both ways.

Agree with that. Everyone is equal. They always have been. Having more money or power doesn't make you better. It just means you have more money and power.

Andy @ Allerton · « **Reply #1990 on:** May 2, 2011, 09:48:56 AM »

Quote from: BIGdavalad on May 2, 2011, 09:02:42 AM

He starts badly by calling George III a German King (he was born in London). American Independence was about resistance to the House of Windsor? For a start, George III was from the House of Hannover and wasn't the War of Independence more about taxation being levied without political representation? Not sure why he drags the poor Saxe-Coburgs into it either, they didn't enter the British Monarchy until Prince Albert married Victoria and their son Edward was the first Monarch of the UK with that name.

Prince Philip is a Germanic supporter of Nazism? That'll be why he was decorated for bravery in the Mediterranean fighting Nazism with the Royal Navy then?

Let's be honest, the fat c*nt can't do the basic research right. He's talking shite and deep down even you know it. It happens to fit your views though so that doesn't matter, does it?

Good post mate.

grifter · « **Reply #1991 on:** May 2, 2011, 09:53:29 AM »

Quote from: Tonyh on May 1, 2011, 11:18:39 PM

Sales wise, Aston Martin for one must think it is Christmas!

Christmas in USA or Kuwait ?

Sr Harvest Fiields · « **Reply #1992 on:** May 2, 2011, 09:54:25 AM »

Dava, you probably know more than me ( not hard ) but did Harry and William see front line action? Or were they kept back and protected from it all?

BIGdavalad · « **Reply #1993 on:** May 2, 2011, 10:03:05 AM »

Quote from: Sir Harvest Fields on May 2, 2011, 09:54:25 AM

Dava, you probably know more than me ( not hard ) but did Harry and William see front line action? Or were they kept back and protected from it all?

William was told he never will, I think that's why he went ASR so that he could still do something useful. Harry was a JTAC (Joint Tactical Air Controller) with a Gurkha battlegroup in Helmand. He was responsible for calling in air assets to support troops on the ground. There was video of him out on a foot patrol through an urban area so he was certainly out on the ground at least once. Even if he wasn't actually out in the cuds all that often, he was still living on a FOB in Helmand with his battlegroup so he would have been exposed to mortar attacks and the like.

Sr Harvest Fiields · « **Reply #1994 on:** May 2, 2011, 10:31:06 AM »

Ah ok. Thanks mate, I often wondered if it was more of a PR thing but obviously not.

Tonyh · « **Reply #1995 on:** May 2, 2011, 10:49:07 AM »

Quote from: Sir Harvest Fields on May 2, 2011, 10:31:06 AM

Ah ok. Thanks mate, I often wondered if it was more of a PR thing but obviously not.
[/quote

If I remember rightly Harry is currently finishing his training as an Apache pilot and will almost certainly be going back there in that role (or at least he wants to go back).

jillc · « **Reply #1996 on:** May 2, 2011, 11:27:05 AM »

My god this thread has moved on. The revolunionerys have taken over! In that case I will repeat my question that I put pages back. Those who are so anti-royal, what is your solution to cure this country's problems. Please don't just state republic, as I'd like to know exactly how we put in a system where "everyone is equal".

yorkykopite · « **Reply #1997 on:** May 2, 2011, 11:27:12 AM »

Quote from: BIGdavalad on May 2, 2011, 09:02:42 AM

He starts badly by calling George III a German King (he was born in London). American Independence was about resistance to the House of Windsor? For a start, George III was from the House of Hannover and wasn't the War of Independence more about taxation being levied without political representation? Not sure why he drags the poor Saxe-Coburgs into it either, they didn't enter the British Monarchy until Prince Albert married Victoria and their son Edward was the first Monarch of the UK with that name.

Prince Philip is a Germanic supporter of Nazism? That'll be why he was decorated for bravery in the Mediterranean fighting Nazism with the Royal Navy then?

Let's be honest, the fat c*nt can't do the basic research right. He's talking shite and deep down even you know it. It happens to fit your views though so that doesn't matter, does it?

Do people still use the word 'fisk'? Anyway, that was a top-class fisk Dava.

(And I say that as a republican).

The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society · « **Reply #1998 on:** May 2, 2011, 12:01:00 PM »

Quote from: jillc on May 2, 2011, 11:27:05 AM

My god this thread has moved on. The revolunionerys have taken over! In that case I will repeat my question that I put pages back. Those who are so anti-royal, what is your solution to cure this country's problems. Please don't just state republic, as I'd like to know exactly how we put in a system where "everyone is equal".

A solution to cure this country's problems? what problems are you referring to? and what does the Royal Family offer us in this regard?

SMD · « **Reply #1999 on:** May 2, 2011, 12:01:21 PM »

Quote from: The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society on May 2, 2011, 12:01:00 PM

A solution to cure this country's problems? what problems are you referring to? and what does the Royal Family offer us in this regard?

A glimpse at divinity.