Topic: Daniel Agger: A Luxury Liverpool can’t afford

[Gnurglan]

Last 6 games without Agger:
W1 D3 L2 F5 A6

Last 6 games with Agger:
W6 D0 L0 F10 A0

I think 3 points and a GD of +1.66 per game is an affordable luxury.

3 pointed Agger

alias Trident.

[abhred]

He'd be the best defender in the country, if he was playing regularly.

[Art Vandelay]

If we could find a centreback of his type who's either as good or has the potential to be as good as him, then I'd sell Agger.  He makes a huge difference to our back line, but what's the point in keeping him if he keeps picking up 6 or 7 injuries every season.  How are we going to create a stable back four if he's in one week, out for two, back for three, out for a week etc....

I think we ought to think long and hard about all our injury-prone players, and consider selling them all.

[Gnurglan]

I think we ought to think long and hard about all our injury-prone players, and consider selling them all.

Agree. Injuries are part of the package. Means we can't count on those players to be playing the majority of the games, so we need to add a backup (or two) for them. Adds cost and makes it harder to plan for the manager.

The one area where I think we could afford to have a top quality player who only plays half the games is in attacking midfield/up front. If he's a match winner/super sub. Think 20 games = 10 goals or something like that. It's more difficult to get the benefits if we're thinking of an injury prone defender.

[Roger Federer]

If we could find a centreback of his type who's either as good or has the potential to be as good as him, then I'd sell Agger.  He makes a huge difference to our back line, but what's the point in keeping him if he keeps picking up 6 or 7 injuries every season.  How are we going to create a stable back four if he's in one week, out for two, back for three, out for a week etc....

I think we ought to think long and hard about all our injury-prone players, and consider selling them all.

It's worth keeping him for the times he is fit. He's far better than the other centre backs, and adds so much when he plays. What he has a centre back is very difficult to find in other players, but if we can find someone similar to him, we wouldn't be so dependant on just Agger. The new CB should be the one we build around, with Agger as an (outstanding) option along with the decent/promising Skrtel/Kelly/Ayala/Carragher.

I think we would be fine if we had that one top class CB, but that player must be available all the time. Like Vidic is for the Mancs. Before Ferdinand's injury problems of late, they were even better of course, but they still get by with rotating the promising, but raw, Smalling or the average Evans alongside him when Ferdinand is out.

[Jellies]

If we could find a centreback of his type who's either as good or has the potential to be as good as him, then I'd sell Agger.  He makes a huge difference to our back line, but what's the point in keeping him if he keeps picking up 6 or 7 injuries every season.  How are we going to create a stable back four if he's in one week, out for two, back for three, out for a week etc....

I think we ought to think long and hard about all our injury-prone players, and consider selling them all.

It's not like he never plays. He's played like 20 games this season. It's worked pretty well this far with rotation in the defense. We haven't been bad defensively very often.

[scatman]

i actually think the 4 youngsters Wisdom, Ayala, Kelly and Wilson should get chances at centre back. All this too young shit is bollocks, the Mancs did that by picking Evans over Pique, Pique wanted to leave to get first team action, he went to Barcelona and the rest is history.

[Greg]

I made a point a while ago that Daniel Agger is our most expensive player in terms of cost.

His league appearances in the 5 and a half seasons he's been here are as follows:

2005/06: 4 (half season)
2006/07: 27
2007/08: 5
2008/09: 18
2009/10: 23
2010/11: 15 (from the 30 games so far)

It averages out that he plays 17.4 league games per season for us. But considering we pay him an annual salary of £3,640,000 per season (based on an educated guess that he's on £70k per week), then it translates that he actually costs the club £210,000 for every league match that he plays.

Only Gerrard (£156,000 per league game), Glen Johnson (£152,000 per league game) and previously Torres (£172,000 per league game) came close to him (figures calculated Jan 2011).

He's a very good player, we can all see that. But the people at the club who do the economics might have other things to consider apart from his ability.

[Carlito Roberto]

Such a good player makes all the difference, easily one of the best central defenders in the league. In an ideal world we should hang onto him and he'll play 38 Premier League games next season. We all know that's not going to happen, so regrettably if we can find another Agger without the injuries, we should seriously look at moving him on.

[PIPA23]

He'd be the best defender in the country, if he was playing regularly.

He would be in world top 5, not just England... if he would be always fit.

[Jellies]

I made a point a while ago that Daniel Agger is our most expensive player in terms of cost.

FSG doesn't seem to have a problem with it though, and he's extremely important for us when he plays. Equally you could say that Brad Jones is our most expensive player in terms of cost as he's never actually played a first team league game.

[Carlito Roberto]

FSG doesn't seem to have a problem with it though, and he's extremely important for us when he plays. Equally you could say that Brad Jones is our most expensive player in terms of cost as he's never actually played a first team league game.

And you know this how?

[Greg]

FSG doesn't seem to have a problem with it though, and he's extremely important for us when he plays. Equally you could say that Brad Jones is our most expensive player in terms of cost as he's never actually played a first team league game.

Well they might have a slight issue with it, but it doesn't mean they will want to get rid of him at the earliest opportunity. FSG are meant to be "smart", so I would be surprised if it wasn't under consideration at least. If money was no object then it wouldn't be an issue. But it's not, and therefore every player has a kind of opportunity cost. i.e. having Player X on a contract means that you are unable to sign Player Y on a similar contract.

Fair(ish) point on Brad Jones. But every team needs a reserve keeper who shouldn't necessarily need to play a single game to justify his wages.

[scatman]

I made a point a while ago that Daniel Agger is our most expensive player in terms of cost.

His league appearances in the 5 and a half seasons he's been here are as follows:

2005/06: 4 (half season)
2006/07: 27
2007/08: 5
2008/09: 18
2009/10: 23
2010/11: 15 (from the 30 games so far)

It averages out that he plays 17.4 league games per season for us. But considering we pay him an annual salary of £3,640,000 per season (based on an educated guess that he's on £70k per week), then it translates that he actually costs the club £210,000 for every league match that he plays.

Only Gerrard (£156,000 per league game), Glen Johnson (£152,000 per league game) and previously Torres (£172,000 per league game) came close to him (figures calculated Jan 2011).

He's a very good player, we can all see that. But the people at the club who do the economics might have other things to consider apart from his ability.

Yes but how can you only use League Appearances, when in those seasons you've mentioned we've gone far in Champions League campaigns and an FA Cup campaign in one?

[Fern9do]

You should change the title of the post.  There's a total disconnect with the main body of text.

I don't think so. Her'es my train of thought. Agger = class = luxury. Poor injury record = something we can't afford. i.e we cant afford to depend on Agger due to his injury problems. English is not my first language so forgive me if it's a bit misleading. Made sense at the time.

[Fern9do]

If we could find a centreback of his type who's either as good or has the potential to be as good as him, then I'd sell Agger.  He makes a huge difference to our back line, but what's the point in keeping him if he keeps picking up 6 or 7 injuries every season.  How are we going to create a stable back four if he's in one week, out for two, back for three, out for a week etc....

I think we ought to think long and hard about all our injury-prone players, and consider selling them all.

Great point mate. I think the 'fear' with selling Agger is similar to what we had with babel. There was always the chance that after giving them so much time, they could suddenly become the player that we know they are capable of.

Im not so sure about sellling him because it would be purely for financial reasons i would think.

[MKelly34]

In my opinion, selling him would be just crazy, as long as we buy a player like ...Vidic to be honest, yes I rate Agger that much.

[Fern9do]

Terrible. Vidic is the best defender in the country

The Vidic comment was meant to be tounge in cheek. Agger's performances cant make Vidic look weaker as a defender, only Torres can do that

[HELLRAZOR]

That's not to say he won't ever be used as a CB.  Carra was used at LB and RB for years.

true i suppose

forgot Hodgson used kelly at left back for a while too (atleast i think he did)

i dont think ive seen too much of him at centre back. kelly is a very exciting prospect. from reading the kings book i know he thinks the same

[The 5th Benitle]

Terrible. Vidic is the best defender in the country

You quoted the entire, well written, well justified post just to say that? Fantastic contribution.

On the OP - I agree with a lot of it. Would keep Agger at all costs. People seem to be frothing at the mouth because of his injury problems but the last couple have been knocks which is simply unlucky and not indicative of residual issues related to the previous long term injuries.

[The 5th Benitle]

Utter shite.

We ae a much better footballing side when he is playing, not to mention we are much more solid at the back.

Maybe try commenting on the article rather than the title. You should be aware however that this requires actually reading the article.

[HELLRAZOR]

Maybe try commenting on the article rather than the title. You should be aware however that this requires actually reading the article.

well that is true but the title is very misleading

the article is good dont get me wrong

[Greg]

Yes but how can you only use League Appearances, when in those seasons you've mentioned we've gone far in Champions League campaigns and an FA Cup campaign in one?

Only used league appearances because that's the only stats I could find. Anyway mate, it's kind of irrelevant when you use these figures simply as a comparsion between our other players. It's not about the real value of how much he costs us per game, it's really about the opportunity cost.

On the OP - I agree with a lot of it. Would keep Agger at all costs. People seem to be frothing at the mouth because of his injury problems but the last couple have been knocks which is simply unlucky and not indicative of residual issues related to the previous long term injuries.

He does seem to pick up these knocks more than other players though I think. And while a typical "knock" might keep someone else out for 1 week, they tend to keep Agger out for at least 2.

I wouldn't go as far as saying "keep him at all costs". That's not to say he's not an important player, but if his running costs are more than Gerrard's for example, then you have to at least consider whether the money could be spent better elsewhere in the team.

[jackh]

Actually rather than being an affordable luxury it just highlights how ordinary the selection options are when he isn't available. Skrtel is as good as gone. Not good enough to be a first choice and too much competition for a backup role. Carragher will most likely stay and play a backup role. Lots of good kids as CB options but none ready just yet to walk in. Ayala Kelly Wilson. I think they will all be in the squad next year, perhaps only Skrtel sold and one to come in?

Doesn't really change the setup though, does it?  Do you mean a player incoming from another club or one of the young lads being given a more senior role?

I said in a different post recently that, whilst the three young lads listed there all look like good prospects, it'd be a real gamble to see us promote on of them as one of the four (and we've seen this season that we need at least four central defensive options) - the only opportunity to trial them, aside from pre-season (which is probably not ideal) is if in two or three weeks we're out of the hunt for a qualifying position in the league - if that happens, then it might be time to give Wilson a chance in Agger's position for the last 4 games of the season to prepare him to be one of the 4 next season.  It'd save us a lot of money if he were to impress.  Especially given that Kelly looks a ready made replacement for Carra a year or two down the line (though the right back role may then require attention).

[trequartista]

Made of glass shame a class player but can you really carry a player who can barely get through the season.

[tea_tree]

He's a luxury we can afford. We need to buy a similarly skilled CB (or 2). The real luxury we can't afford is our resident hoofer in the CB/RB position

[Jellies]

He's a luxury we can afford. We need to buy a similarly skilled CB (or 2). The real luxury we can't afford is our resident hoofer in the CB/RB position

Yes .... yes .... yes .... Ooooh no you lost it. Bummer.

[Studog]

I disagree completely, I really rate Dagger and always have done. However, I think Skrtel is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard, really do not rate him. I'd like to see Wilson given a run, he will have learnt from some very good cbs so far (I know Weir played for Everton, but he's still got a fair bit of experience!)

But I agree with the people saying why we haven't been linked with a top draw CB because you don't want to hinder those players develop

Maybe Wilson hasn't been played because he came from rangers??

[b_joseph]

We dont have any luxuries in our squad right now.

For me, Agger is so good that I dont care if he can only play 25 games a season. I want him in this squad so he can play thsoe 25 and make the team look 100 times better in the process. What his injuries do mean though is that he will never be able to garner the type of contract that his ability deserves...so that shouldnt be much of an issue over the next 5 years. We should always get a good deal out of him.
Now, even if Agger was guaranteed to be healthy for 50 games a year, we still would need 2 CB's IMO. Someone to play next to him and a back up for the inevitable suspensions/injuries/general rotation.

[JavierMascherano20]

I think we’re all agreed that Agger is a quality player. That isn’t the main issue here; the issue is his injury problems, which continue to be a burden on him, and on our team. With Agger in the side, we look better from the back, because he’s a ball playing centre half, he is good defensively and good going forward.

Agger is still only twenty six years of age, but it is fair to say that, he hasn’t played enough games given his time here, due to injuries, as we know. He joined us in January 2006, and has never played more than 27 league games in any season. Now, as we all know, that isn’t ideal for a side that wants to challenge for titles, because you want consistency in all your positions within the team. Yes, rotation is a huge part of football but ideally, you want your main starters to be hitting 32-35 League games per season, if not all the 38 required games.

I see a lot of ifs in this thread, as I read through, and I can’t help but feel that some people are clutching at straws. Agger, like Aurelio, is bound to be plagued by injuries. We have to assess the situation this summer, because I personally feel that we need changes in certain positions and that we have to be ruthless about it. We have some good prospects, and Wilson and Kelly have really impressed me, and I hope they’re given more chances.

[AnnieRoad(Un)Faithful]

I hope Comolli or King Kenny has a central defender line-up that can step in when Agger is not available as Carragher and Skrtel are clearly not up to the task.

Utter bollocks.

Carragher is still very much up to it, whereas Skrtel and Kyrgiakos are not.

I saw us linked with Richard Dunne yesterday. Not sure how that'd work out.

[JavierMascherano20]

Utter bollocks.

Carragher is still very much up to it, whereas Skrtel and Kyrgiakos are not.

I saw us linked with Richard Dunne yesterday. Not sure how that'd work out.

I think I'm going to puke at the Richard Dunne comment. Where did you read about that anyway?

I agree on Carragher, I think he still has something to offer the team, and given his age and his loyalty to the club, I think we should keep him on until he retires. Of course, his role within the team should become less important over the years, but that is the way it is. I think Martin Kelly and Danny Wilson are definitely going to become good players for us, providing they stay on the right track.

[Jellies]

Sometimes I think you lads watch football with your arse. Skrtel was our best defender vs. Sunderland and arguably our best player on the day

[royhendo]

Sensationalist title to the article. With all due respect.

[dr.dracco]

Sometimes I think you lads watch football with your arse. Skrtel was our best defender vs. Sunderland and arguably our best player on the day

It´s fashionable to slate him thi season. He has easily become Nr. 1 scapegoat on here. No credit when he plays well and when the whole team plays poor it´s usually Martin who gets the stick.

[Ultimate Bromance]

If we could find a centreback of his type who's either as good or has the potential to be as good as him, then I'd sell Agger.  He makes a huge difference to our back line, but what's the point in keeping him if he keeps picking up 6 or 7 injuries every season.  How are we going to create a stable back four if he's in one week, out for two, back for three, out for a week etc....

I think we ought to think long and hard about all our injury-prone players, and consider selling them all.

I think Subotic(sp)? was one of the names that cropped up as a potential replacement, CB with a great eye for a pass, don't really know much about him myself.

[qulu]

Methinks too much emphasis is being put on Aggers injuries. If I remember correctly he has had two biggies (well one big, and one normally small one that was mistreatet by our medical staff which led him to miss almost a season). The rest has been minor. He did have a problem with his back, which is a bit worrying, but he seems to have recovered from it, so why start a storm over one of the absolute world class players that is left at anfield?
The appereance stats aren't too usefull either, since he has never really been first choice CB, and has been sitting out a lot of matches while fit.
How many would get rid of Gerrard based on his injury-proneness alone? He has had year long spells were he wasn't able to string 3-4 matches together. And he still isn't.

[XabiArt]

i actually think the 4 youngsters Wisdom, Ayala, Kelly and Wilson should get chances at centre back. All this too young shit is bollocks, the Mancs did that by picking Evans over Pique, Pique wanted to leave to get first team action, he went to Barcelona and the rest is history.

Evans is younger than Pique...

Not that im dismissing your point, I do believe we have some talented defenders coming through at the moment which is encouraging.

[Lord Roger Hunt]

When fit, I would say that Agger is every bit as good as Luiz and he cost £24m (ish)..........

[nittinivala]

Suarez and Agger-the two players we miss most when not playing.