Topic: Jay Spearing- Better Late than Never

[SpartanRed]

Could have done with him today for sure.

[BazC]

Fucking hope he's back midweek.

[sat]

We really do need him on Wednesday, cant play with SG and Adam in the middle

[Heighwayondawing]

We need him for the next 2 games instead of Adam- otherwise our season will end this month.

The FA effectively ended it when they sat our most creative player.

[fosspowered]

We really do need him on Wednesday, cant play with SG and Adam in the middle

Is he fit?

[Channo]

Lucas>Spearing>Coady>Adam

Don't know what Kenny was thinking using Adam as a defensive shield without having Gerrard give him a hand. Adam is both unwilling and incapable of staying in positon

Agree... I've advocated Coady as a DM before now, and shouted down as him being too young, but if Lucas is injured, and Spearing is injured  - Coady seems the next in line.

[sonnyred]

Is he fit?

I hope so but if he's not then I hope it's Gerrard, Henderson and Shelvey in CM on Wednesday, with Bellamy up top on his own being supported by Stevie.

[GrkStav]

Lucas>Spearing>Coady>Adam

Don't know what Kenny was thinking using Adam as a defensive shield without having Gerrard give him a hand. Adam is both unwilling and incapable of staying in positon

Well, I think Gerrard was supposed to take about 60% of the DM duties with Adam taking up the remainder. With Adam stinking up the joint in attack, Stevie felt the need to make up for it by being more involved in attack. Adam, whether because he was unwilling, unable, or both, did not make up the difference defensively. Result: failure.

[Gnurglan]

Really hope Spearing is back for the City game. We need him in there to get some defensive stability. Without Lucas and/or Spearing, our CMs leave huge gaps of space to exploit. Something I'm certain Silva/Aguero/Nasti will know how to do. Spearing may not be the long term solution for the problem, but he's definitely the best short term solution we have here and now.

[Cpt_Reina]

You dont know what you've got 'till its gone.

No Spearing has left a gaping hole in our midfield. Not only does he do all of the donkey work that Adam can't and Gerrard is unwilling to do but he allows them to focus on doing what they're actually good at.

He improves us in attack as much as he does in defence.

[Saul Goodman]

Any word on his injury ?

[Spanish Al]

Hope he's fit as we desperately need him. If he plays I'll be very confident of winning, if he is still injured I think we'll get knocked out. Thats how much we need him right now imo.

Every time I see him play he seems to improve and he is a brilliant little player. I'd have him over Adam every single time at the moment.

[krizzobizzle]

Its astonishing how opinion of Jay has changed over 12 months. I read some pages back and its a good squad player at best yada yada yada, loan him out etc.

Bottom line is he's the only one in our midfield currently that is most similar to Masch or Lucas in terms of a like for like replacement. I would stick my neck to say at the moment he's the most important midfielder we need at this time.

He hassles players and gets stuck in, and contrary to Charlie Adam, he is mostly goal side of attacking players, not running bag like a bag of moldy spuds tumbling into someone with sunday league hacks giving away free kicks like sweets.

I just desperately hope he gets fit for wednesday, fuck

[redprodigal]

He was class in the first leg and I think we'd have gone on to beat them comfortably if he wouldn't have got injured. The game changed dramatically when he went off and we went into our shell. Would love to see him play Wednesday but surely he has no chance.

[bigbear]

He was class in the first leg and I think we'd have gone on to beat them comfortably if he wouldn't have got injured. The game changed dramatically when he went off and we went into our shell. Would love to see him play Wednesday but surely he has no chance.

In Lucas's absence he is absolutely key for us on Wednesday.

Gerrard and Adam in midfield is a very big no-no.

[Number 7]

You dont know what you've got 'till its gone.

No Spearing has left a gaping hole in our midfield. Not only does he do all of the donkey work that Adam can't and Gerrard is unwilling to do but he allows them to focus on doing what they're actually good at.

He improves us in attack as much as he does in defence.

This. I miss Lucas immensely but i miss Spearing more than I thought I would.

[Tepid water]

Lucas>Spearing>Coady>Adam

Don't know what Kenny was thinking using Adam as a defensive shield without having Gerrard give him a hand. Adam is both unwilling and incapable of staying in positon

This is coady who's never even played in the first team?

[Notayesman]

This is coady who's never even played in the first team?

You know normally I'd agree with the intention of that remark but in this case I think Coady would be a better option than Adam in that position. I seriously doubt he'd just stand there as midfield runners tore past him as they made a beeline for our goal. Adam has ability but it's not in that position and not when Gerrard is his partner.

[rowan_d]

This is coady who's never even played in the first team?

If he's not a liability, he'll be better in DM than Adam

[Tony18:5]

I still don't see why a CM has to have a specific role (yes they will be better at certain duties)

Surely players with the experience of Gerrard & Adam should be able to play together and sort it out, else play the 3 centrally, which I think KK will go with tomorrow.

[BazC]

I still don't see why a CM has to have a specific role (yes they will be better at certain duties)

Surely players with the experience of Gerrard & Adam should be able to play together and sort it out, else play the 3 centrally, which I think KK will go with tomorrow.

Which teams in the last, what, 5-10years, has been successful *without* having specialist midfielders?

Compared to those who have been successful?

[Tony18:5]

Which teams in the last, what, 5-10years, has been successful *without* having specialist midfielders?

Compared to those who have been successful?

Dunno Baz, my point being that the 2 I mentioned should have adapted better to the situation.

I guess the guy who picked the team on Sat thought the same - hence his disappointment.

[Sangria]

I still don't see why a CM has to have a specific role (yes they will be better at certain duties)

Surely players with the experience of Gerrard & Adam should be able to play together and sort it out, else play the 3 centrally, which I think KK will go with tomorrow.

I refer you to my glue and energy essays, whose validity have been painfully proven by their absence. There are certain basic things the midfield needs to do. Adam in particular does the glue bit extremely unreliably, and the energy bit not at all. He is like a much reduced version of Gerrard, who can at least force himself for a while to do these things well, at the cost of reducing his overall impact. These qualities are often overlooked in favour of more eyecatching contributions, but they're certainly noticeable when they're absent.

Within the current squad, Lucas-Spearing offers the best balance of these qualities, with both players having a decent amount of both qualities. It's not just a matter of liking a tackle, or having an eye for a pass, as the oft-repeated cliches go. It's about making the midfield an unfriendly place for the opposition, which comprises a whole number of things, and circulating the ball quickly and reliably.

[BazC]

Dunno Baz, my point being that the 2 I mentioned should have adapted better to the situation.

I guess the guy who picked the team on Sat thought the same - hence his disappointment.

I dunno mate, but we've all discussed for literally years about Gerrards shortcomings in a midfield 2 and lately, Adams when defending.

The only thing I was surprised about was they weren't even good enough to impose themselves onBolton (if it wasManCity or Tottenham, I'd have expected such a showing to be honest).

[kopitecrash]

It's about making the midfield an unfriendly place for the opposition, which comprises a whole number of things, and circulating the ball quickly and reliably.

Man Lucas and Spearing were kings of this when they played and probably more so now. Almost a perfect double pivot.

[andspecks]

Is he still injured?

[jimmyjr86]

Man Lucas and Spearing were kings of this when they played and probably more so now. Almost a perfect double pivot.

it was a joy to watch. Jay and Lucas moved the ball around so quickly it gave theattacking midfielders so much nore space and service and we thrived. they both shut down the opposition so well it just meant we won the midfield everytime and overloaded teams.

[harleydanger]

I still don't see why a CM has to have a specific role (yes they will be better at certain duties)

Surely players with the experience of Gerrard & Adam should be able to play together and sort it out, else play the 3 centrally, which I think KK will go with tomorrow.

You need two players of outstanding, exceptional ability and fitness to play two in the middle in todays game, even more so in the PL. The game has just become too quick that if you play with 2 in the middle, you either end up sitting outside your own box with 2 banks of 4 or you get ripped apart if one of your CM's get to far forward.

[rowan_d]

I dunno mate, but we've all discussed for literally years about Gerrards shortcomings in a midfield 2 and lately, Adams when defending.

The only thing I was surprised about was they weren't even good enough to impose themselves onBolton (if it wasManCity or Tottenham, I'd have expected such a showing to be honest).

In a way its not surprising at all. It must be the easiest tactic to impose upon the players. Basically a case of telling your midfielders to burst past the ball and the static midfielders when you've retained possession for a while within 35 yards of the goal you're attacking. If you try that against a team set up to deal with it you leave yourself horribly open to the counterattack, and short on numbers once the ball's cleared. We posed no such threat though, either in terms of breaking incisively to make the vacated space count, or in terms of intercepting the ball to the runner, and we posed even less threat of tracking the runner. Was a tactical disaster in all honesty

[kopitecrash]

Supposedly a doubt for the game according to the beeb. If so, not good.

[Hazell]

Supposedly a doubt for the game according to the beeb. If so, not good.

I think the BBC usually just go on him having been out since the first leg and they're not always so accurate. Still, he would be a big miss and a midfield today without him could be very problematic for us tonight.

[Grobbelrevell]

If he plays I'll be very confident of winning, if he is still injured I think we'll get knocked out. Thats how much we need him right now imo.

That sums up my feelings as well.

Either way, we need to go with a three-man midfield. Anything less would be suicide. Without Spearing (and Lucas) though, I still fear the damage that the likes of Silva could inflict if we leave the kind of space in and around our box that we've done consistantly this season in their absence.

The problem is, i'm not sure what the best solution is, assuming that Jay is not fit.

There's been talk of Carragher playing that shielding role, but personally I wouldn't feel comfortable having Jamie tracking nimble, tricky players like Silva and Aguero in and around our box. There's an accident waiting to happen there in my opinion, a lot like Adam in that position, only withouth the occasional redeeming hollywood ball.

The two obvious options, and arguably both would be more comfortable in that area, would be Agger or Aurelio. Aurelio especially has played that role before, notably under Rafa. However, he's played a grand total of about half an hours (first team) football this season and for that reason alone I can't see him being thrown into this one. As for Agger, his partnership with Skrtel has probably been the shining light this season so unless it was absolutely necessary I would prefer to see these two kept together. We'll certainly need that solidity and understanding at the heart of the defence.

And then there's young Coady. Whichever way you look at it, he's the closest to a specialist defensive midfielder that we have at our disposal right now. He would be comfortable in that position and tactically would arguably be most likely to know what is required. However, his lack of experience disctates that this could be an exercise in sink or swim. Say he has a bad first couple of touches and the nerves set it, it could have a devastating effect on his confidence and for that reason, again, I can't see Kenny throwing him into this kind of fixture. Although against that argument comes the fact that Kenny did very similar when we were deserately short of full-backs last season and thought highly enough of Flanagan and Robinson to cast them in at the deep end against Arsenal and City.

Which is the better option of those? I don't know to be quite honest, but what's certain is that Kenny has a massive decision to make. This decision alone has the potential to decide this tie so he simply has to get it right.

[joe ®]

Yeah let's give a debut to an 18 year old kid who's not exactly bossing it at reserve level and isn't really a DM anyway. Let's play him directly up against the best between-the-lines player in England.

Definitely a great idea.

[exiledinyorkshire]

That sums up my feelings as well.

Either way, we need to go with a three-man midfield. Anything less would be suicide. Without Spearing (and Lucas) though, I still fear the damage that the likes of Silva could inflict if we leave the kind of space in and around our box that we've done consistantly this season in their absence.

The problem is, i'm not sure what the best solution is, assuming that Jay is not fit.

There's been talk of Carragher playing that shielding role, but personally I wouldn't feel comfortable having Jamie tracking nimble, tricky players like Silva and Aguero in and around our box. There's an accident waiting to happen there in my opinion, a lot like Adam in that position, only withouth the occasional redeeming hollywood ball.

The two obvious options, and arguably both would be more comfortable in that area, would be Agger or Aurelio. Aurelio especially has played that role before, notably under Rafa. However, he's played a grand total of about half an hours (first team) football this season and for that reason alone I can't see him being thrown into this one. As for Agger, his partnership with Skrtel has probably been the shining light this season so unless it was absolutely necessary I would prefer to see these two kept together. We'll certainly need that solidity and understanding at the heart of the defence.

And then there's young Coady. Whichever way you look at it, he's the closest to a specialist defensive midfielder that we have at our disposal right now. He would be comfortable in that position and tactically would be most likely to know what is required. However, his lack of experience disctates that this could be an exercise in sink or swim. Say he has a bad first couple of touches and the nerves set it, it could have a devastating effect on his confidence and for that reason, again, I can't see Kenny throwing him into this kind of fixture. Although against that argument comes the fact that Kenny did very similar when we were deserately short of full-backs last season and thought highly enough of Flanagan and Robinson to cast them in at the deep end against Arsenal and City.

Which is the better option of those? I don't know to be quite honest, but what's certain is that Kenny has a massive decision to make. This decision alone has the potential to decide this tie so he simply has to get it right.

I'm sure Coady is a great player, but i watched him get walked around all day yesterday against Blackburn Reserves. Not good enough with the ball to be in our first team, and nowhere near good enough without it IMO of course. You have to be one or tuther, if your not both of course. The way forward in the long run, is to turn very good quick thinking technical types into disciplined harriers. Spearing and lucas are realistically just that. Coady in my opinion is not in that kind of league (yet). It remains to be seen if he will develop sufficiently to make that step up. A bit off the pace thats required to be fair at htis stage.

For me, and i dont suppose its ever going to happen, but somebody like Flannagan is a more suitable candidate. Great in the tackle (still a bit of a red card waiting to happen) nice and mobile, quick brain and nice and tidy passer. In an ideal world, youd look for the likes of Suso and Texiera to bulk up a bit and be able to play the defensive game in there (quick feet good passers, keep it moving keep it ticking, with great movement and a bit of skill).

Look at Barca, Busquetts is the only really dedicate destroyer, and he can play, the other two are always playmakers that can get back.

[Cpt_Reina]

I'm sure Coady is a great player, but i watched him get walked around all day yesterday against Blackburn Reserves. Not good enough with the ball to be in our first team, and nowhere near good enough without it IMO of course. You have to be one or tuther, if your not both of course. The way forward in the long run, is to turn very good quick thinking technical types into disciplined harriers. Spearing and lucas are realistically just that. Coady in my opinion is not in that kind of league (yet). It remains to be seen if he will develop sufficiently to make that step up. A bit off the pace thats required to be fair at htis stage.

For me, and i dont suppose its ever going to happen, but somebody like Flannagan is a more suitable candidate. Great in the tackle (still a bit of a red card waiting to happen) nice and mobile, quick brain and nice and tidy passer. In an ideal world, youd look for the likes of Suso and Texiera to bulk up a bit and be able to play the defensive game in there (quick feet good passers, keep it moving keep it ticking, with great movement and a bit of skill).

Look at Barca, Busquetts is the only really dedicate destroyer, and he can play, the other two are always playmakers that can get back.

Funny you mention Busquets, because that's the sort of player Coady is (although not as good as is).

Busquets isn't a destroyer. Mascherano's a destroyer. Busquets is much more 'refined' in his defensive duties. He doesnt tear around the midfield snapping at ankles, he floats about mopping up, and is only able to do so because of Barca's excellent pressing.

Coady's similar. He's not one to go steaming in to challenges and bullying players in to giving up the ball. He likes to get in to good defensive positions and then sweep up loose balls and support others. It's when he's left to do the job alone that he struggles.

He'd do well alongside Spearing or Lucas, but right now I agree he's not a direct replacement for either.

(I do think he's good enough on the ball though. Never gives it away)

[Vidocq]

its Spearing and his critical role for Liverpool

[Discipline]

Yeah let's give a debut to an 18 year old kid who's not exactly bossing it at reserve level and isn't really a DM anyway. Let's play him directly up against the best between-the-lines player in England.

Definitely a great idea.

Better than a certain 26 year old.

[exiledinyorkshire]

I've always been so so with Lucas, never been his greatest fan, but always seen in him something.Funnily enough in the summer i was suggesting that Jay was as good as him, which got me roundly derided. Since he has been gone it really throws everything into focus. In a 3 man midfield you can play who you like really as long as lucas is one of them. And as i suspected Jay is a capable understudy for Lucas. We definitely need somebody to do that job, just not Coady as far as i can see.

If you play a 3 in midfield we have got 4 options as it stands without jay lucas or using a defender. Gerrard, Adam, Hendo and Shelvey. None of those combos looks particularly solid against a team like City. Personally i would go with Agger,Gerrard and Shelvey.

[exiledinyorkshire]

Actually Agger, Shelvey and Henderson, and play Steven on the right of the front 3.

[Grobbelrevell]

Actually Agger, Shelvey and Henderson, and play Steven on the right of the front 3.

And then that poses the next question.

Who comes in at centre-half in place of Agger?

And is it worth disrupting the partnership that has been the one constant positive over the course of the season?