Author Topic: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt  (Read 67631 times)

Offline Andy @ Allerton

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1440 on: April 24, 2011, 12:31:13 PM »
less penalties, younger, more potential, better crosser, more dangerous when playing counter attack....

Unbelievable.
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Offline Mr Dilkington

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1441 on: April 24, 2011, 12:31:15 PM »
I think he means if you're going to compare this person to Dirk, it's only fair that he's compared to someone with a similar price tag. Unless of course you merely enjoy slagging off Liverpool players for the sake of it?
Ha! Where have i slagged him off today? So you can't compare Ronaldo to anyone, and Messi can be compared to Jovanovic, Voronin, etc cause he cost nothing?
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Offline smicer07

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1442 on: April 24, 2011, 12:31:52 PM »
Pens are hardly a basis for how good a player is.

True, but then Ashley Young took  himself off penalty duties because he missed some vital ones.

Offline Mr Dilkington

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1443 on: April 24, 2011, 12:32:25 PM »
Isn't Ashley Young primarily a left winger? Occasionally he plays in the middle too, but rarely on the right?

I rate him. Would love to see him come here. A top LW should be a priority this summer.

Back to Dirk, got to agree with this:

And Andy has a point too - he's definitely been one of, if not our best player, since Kenny took over. Up there with Lucas for me, and Raul and Suarez for shorter spells.
Yep, has been playing a lot more from centre this season. That's fair Neil, at least you have a constructive opinion.

More than can be said for some on here today.
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Offline Neil D

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1444 on: April 24, 2011, 12:32:42 PM »
I think some people will be very surprised and very wrong if they expect Kuyt to be mainly a bench player next season. He will start a lot of games. He's just signed a new deal, and his versatility means he can start in several positions.
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Offline No666

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1445 on: April 24, 2011, 12:33:31 PM »
Dirk is the perfect player for our transitioning squad now, capable, reliable, versatile, and devoted to the club. If and when we buy another player for his position he won't grumble, he'll just get on with it, accept rotation, and raise his game. Dirk has every sign of being a long term stalwart.


Stussy, I'm not so sure that it's true he'll accept regular rotation. If you take Tommo's interjection as true, then he'll be a valuable squad member as number 2 to Carroll, with (according to fairly informed rumour) Wickham as number 3. I think in some big games you'll see Dirk back on the right. BUT - if the rotation means sitting out a fair few, I'm not at all sure he'll be content with it. Obviously this is uncharted territory(!) but looking at the man's personality - his desire to contribute may be more direct than by smiling cheerfully from the bench. We'll have to see.

Having said that, personally, I'd love the above scenario to be true and for your character assessment to be the right one. It would use his strengths and minimise his weaknesses.

But it also strikes me that the Dirk cult on here wants it both ways in terms of criticising other posters. Yorky and Rossi get it in the neck when Dirk has a good game and they stay out of here, posting no criticism of him. But if Roy and others attempt a gentle critique of his good and bad points - expressing the wish for a purer footballer - they are accused of coming on here and 'moaning.'

It's this sort of defensiveness that verges on the ridiculous.
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Offline Lo Pan

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1446 on: April 24, 2011, 12:34:10 PM »
I think he means if you're going to compare this person to Dirk, it's only fair that he's compared to someone with a similar price tag. Unless of course you merely enjoy slagging off Liverpool players for the sake of it?

No, what is being tallked about is signing a player who will be an upgrade on Kuyt. Why does that player have to be a similar price tag? It's quite simple, he doesn't.

Offline itsgunnabebarnes!

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1447 on: April 24, 2011, 12:34:42 PM »
True, but then Ashley Young took  himself off penalty duties because he missed some vital ones.

fairplay. we all know how good dirks been, and how he plays. He will be a vital part of the first 11 next season. That does not mean we do not needs player in the position he often finds himself right midfield. We need some pace,skill, crossing ability from one side or atleast available to the manager.
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Offline smicer07

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1448 on: April 24, 2011, 12:36:45 PM »
No, what is being tallked about is signing a player who will be an upgrade on Kuyt. Why does that player have to be a similar price tag? It's quite simple, he doesn't.

If we're signing an "upgrade" to Kuyt, and comparing him to Kuyt, then it's only fair to involve the price tag in your argument. If we sign someone for 30m to play right wing, you'd EXPECT them to be better than a 10m player, surely?

Offline Neil D

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1449 on: April 24, 2011, 12:36:50 PM »
Yep, has been playing a lot more from centre this season. That's fair Neil, at least you have a constructive opinion.

More than can be said for some on here today.

Well thank you, that's not something people often say about me in this thread!

Seriously though, I think Young has the attributes we really need and lack, namely the attributes Dirk lacks, the blistering pace, skill and dribbling ability, consistently accurate crossing, and he takes a mean free kick to boot. We need variety in our attack, with him, Suarez, Carroll, Kuyt, perhaps another and Maxi as a squad player we would have forwards and widemen of all shapes and sizes and skill sets, aerial threats, speed merchants, dribblers, pass and move players, effective workhorses... which a team needs.

Worry he would cost a lot though and we wouldn't be the only side interested.
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Offline PJG

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1450 on: April 24, 2011, 12:38:00 PM »
Well thank you, that's not something people often say about me in this thread!

Seriously though, I think Young has the attributes we really need and lack, namely the attributes Dirk lacks, the blistering pace, skill and dribbling ability, accurate crossing, and he takes a mean free kick to boot. We need variety in our attack, with him, Suarez, Carroll, Kuyt, perhaps another and Maxi as a squad player we would have forwards and widemen of all shapes and sizes and skill sets, which a team needs.

Worry he would cost a lot though and we wouldn't be the only side interested.

really?

Offline Neil D

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1451 on: April 24, 2011, 12:38:42 PM »
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Offline steveeastend

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1452 on: April 24, 2011, 12:38:47 PM »
It wonīt be easy to find an improvement for what Kuyt brings to the team. First there are rarely any physically stronger players out there. Every team needs at least one of those "iron-made" players who are able to put down 90 minutes of work whatever may come. Then he rarely gets injured, he can pass a ball and he knows how to move in the right way.

On the other hand he is technically not so gifted but thatīs not the point about Kuyt as it doesnīt effect the team in negative way like for example it is the case with the greek.

There is no perfect player existing and itīs important what he can do for the team anyways and what Kenny wants him to be part of within the team.

To me itīs a suprise how someone can defend Cole and critise Kuyt as he is more of a "Liverpool player" than Cole ever will be.

« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 12:45:43 PM by steveeastend »

Offline smicer07

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1453 on: April 24, 2011, 12:38:59 PM »
Anyway, I'm bored of threads slagging off our own lads, so I'll leave you to it.

Offline PJG

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1454 on: April 24, 2011, 12:40:06 PM »

Offline itsgunnabebarnes!

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1455 on: April 24, 2011, 12:40:43 PM »
"blistering pace"

Ok its not blistering. he is quick. good god.
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Offline royhendo

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1456 on: April 24, 2011, 12:42:30 PM »
Let's be honest, a few posts ago you called him a passenger, and effectively stated we'd be hamstrung until he's not in the side. I truly disagree.

Deffo not a fair description of Kuyt.

But from the same post

Love him to bits

And I've since explained what I mean, hopefully. No offence intended.
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Offline dsmith22208

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1457 on: April 24, 2011, 12:43:33 PM »
Im a big Kuyt fan dotn get me wrong and i have been a big fan of him since he came but i can understand why some people do get fustrated with him. Sometimes his passes to our players arent the best, howver its probs due to the fact he's just ran 100 miles and is a bit out of breath like. Anyways he's a great player still and was fantastic to see him get the hat trick against the Mancs. Whole team looks good now, be funny if city and spurs went on a slump and we nicked 4th......... never going to happen but im looking forward to knocking spurs off their perch! Hope Kuyt can score a couple more to help us on the way!

Offline Neil D

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1458 on: April 24, 2011, 12:43:56 PM »
"blistering pace"

Ashley Young is one of the quickest players in the league. Villa's game under O'Neill was almost entirely based on counter-attacking and utilising his and Agbonlahor's pace. He's not as quick as say Owen in his prime, or Cisse when he first came here, but fuck me he is fast. Surely that's not up for debate is it? Is 'blistering' a bit over the top? I don't think so.

Good compilation here - the Everton goal shows just how quick he can be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FtT3trSliU
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Offline royhendo

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1459 on: April 24, 2011, 12:44:10 PM »
I really dont see the point in a dirk thread anymore, he has over the last 4 months answered every doubter with a middle finger.

I think he's done it with a magnanimous smile. There's absolutely no reason for middle fingers.
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Offline itsgunnabebarnes!

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1460 on: April 24, 2011, 12:45:09 PM »
I think he's done it with a magnanimous smile. There's absolutely no reason for middle fingers.

True, i take that comment back.
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Offline Lo Pan

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1461 on: April 24, 2011, 12:45:28 PM »
If we're signing an "upgrade" to Kuyt, and comparing him to Kuyt, then it's only fair to involve the price tag in your argument. If we sign someone for 30m to play right wing, you'd EXPECT them to be better than a 10m player, surely?

 Kuyt's price tag is irrelevant here. Of course we would expect a Ģ30m player to be an upgrade. Some people think we can upgrade on Kuyt by finding a better player. That player will probably cost more than Kuyt did, but so what? The point is we can find an upgrade, and in doing so we are not limited to what we paid for Kuyt.

This is the same argument people on the Ngog thread use for not upgrading on him, because apparently the player we bring in can't cost more than Ngog did. It's ridiculous.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 12:48:33 PM by Lo Pan »

Offline royhendo

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1462 on: April 24, 2011, 12:47:18 PM »
Do you honestly believe that I don't want the team to get better?

I can't speak for you Andy. I do think you're intolerant of others' views on how we should improve though.

Peace and love dude :)
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Offline royhendo

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1463 on: April 24, 2011, 12:48:01 PM »
True, i take that comment back.

Only joshin mate, sorry :)
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Offline mercurial

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1464 on: April 24, 2011, 12:48:12 PM »
He has more assists than Dirk this season.

That's one upgrade right away.

How many goals over the last 3 seasons? how many assists over last 3 seasons? Whats his injury record compared to kuyt? Lets talk on them since you wanted to make this a really wind up post for people.
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Offline Ken-Obi

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1465 on: April 24, 2011, 12:48:45 PM »
How many goals over the last 3 seasons? how many assists over last 3 seasons? Whats his injury record compared to kuyt? Lets talk on them since you wanted to make this a really wind up post for people.
Now now, be nice.
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Offline itsgunnabebarnes!

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1466 on: April 24, 2011, 12:48:56 PM »
Only joshin mate, sorry :)

aye, but you're right. a smile on his face, is more fitting of the man.
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Offline PJG

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1467 on: April 24, 2011, 12:49:57 PM »
Ashley Young is one of the quickest players in the league. Villa's game under O'Neill was almost entirely based on counter-attacking and utilising his and Agbonlahor's pace. He's not as quick as say Owen in his prime, or Cisse when he first came here, but fuck me he is fast. Surely that's not up for debate is it? Is 'blistering' a bit over the top? I don't think so.

Good compilation here - the Everton goal shows just how quick he can be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FtT3trSliU

Fair enough mate.  didn't know it my apologies

Offline Mr Dilkington

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1468 on: April 24, 2011, 12:51:29 PM »
How many goals over the last 3 seasons? how many assists over last 3 seasons? Whats his injury record compared to kuyt? Lets talk on them since you wanted to make this a really wind up post for people.
It's not. I stated a fact, by all means, put up your own.
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Offline Andy @ Allerton

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1469 on: April 24, 2011, 12:55:23 PM »
I can't speak for you Andy. I do think you're intolerant of others' views on how we should improve though.

Peace and love dude :)

I can understand that mate - but I get most of my bans sticking up for my club, my city and our players. I can't help it. If someone slagged my missus off I'd knock them out. I'm the same with Liverpool FC.
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Offline Neil D

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1470 on: April 24, 2011, 12:55:25 PM »
Fair enough mate.  didn't know it my apologies

No worries mate - one thing is for sure he's quicker than Dirk!  :D
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Offline royhendo

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1471 on: April 24, 2011, 12:56:01 PM »
I am dying to see this player who will be such an upgrade on him. 

It might be a bargain or it might be expensive, but this is something BazC used to argue really persuasively. Add another at the Suarez sort of level, and the impact could be profound. Kuyt would still have a massive role IMO, but the game would get easier for everyone on the park as a result.

It could be a homegrown kid, it could be a Suarez to Groningen type bargain, or it could be a massively expensive player, I don't know. But it's inevitable in the coming seasons, if nothing else because Dirk's getting older.
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Offline Stussy

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1472 on: April 24, 2011, 12:56:46 PM »
Stussy, I'm not so sure that it's true he'll accept regular rotation. If you take Tommo's interjection as true, then he'll be a valuable squad member as number 2 to Carroll, with (according to fairly informed rumour) Wickham as number 3. I think in some big games you'll see Dirk back on the right. BUT - if the rotation means sitting out a fair few, I'm not at all sure he'll be content with it. Obviously this is uncharted territory(!) but looking at the man's personality - his desire to contribute may be more direct than by smiling cheerfully from the bench. We'll have to see.

Having said that, personally, I'd love the above scenario to be true and for your character assessment to be the right one. It would use his strengths and minimise his weaknesses.

But it also strikes me that the Dirk cult on here wants it both ways in terms of criticising other posters. Yorky and Rossi get it in the neck when Dirk has a good game and they stay out of here, posting no criticism of him. But if Roy and others attempt a gentle critique of his good and bad points - expressing the wish for a purer footballer - they are accused of coming on here and 'moaning.'

It's this sort of defensiveness that verges on the ridiculous.

I don't know anything about the politics of this thread, this is the first time I've participated in a conversation about Dirk since I can remember. I don't think 'Dirk cult' is a helpful phrase though.

As to him accepting rotation - he'll have to. If not, he can put in a transfer request at the end of next season. Should we qualify for Europe we'll have four competitions to participate in and he'll get games. And he'll get games in the league, regardless, because of injury, suspension, and he'll get starts because of his qualities for various formations we want to play, to say nothing of being a sub. Dirk doesn't seem the kind that will shirk a challenge, and I feel sure that the competition for a place will make him raise his game.

The current squad contains keepers and losers, we'll keep some, we'll lose some.

The keepers we all know who they are, and we know who the losers are. There may be some in a grey area. But generally speaking we know who sits in which part of the Venn diagram.

Amongst the keepers, you can make another differentiation. The ones who will fit into our 'Utopia' team, the ideal first team that we are looking to create now. Would Dirk make the Utopia team? The team we would select to win the title needing three points in the last game of the season? Maybe, maybe not. But thats where a usefulness test comes into play. Will Dirk be useful to our aspirations over the long haul of a season? Undoubtedly so. He's the archetyple useful player, in that definition.

« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 01:04:05 PM by Stussy »

Offline No666

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1473 on: April 24, 2011, 01:02:19 PM »
That wasn't a reference to you, and doubtless could have been phrased more diplomatically.
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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1474 on: April 24, 2011, 01:03:23 PM »
I am dying to see this player who will be such an upgrade on him.

It will be a Winger who scores double figures of goals, who also provides assists, who is willing to tackle back, who is consistently fit,  who presses the opposition, who has a phenomenal work rate, who is a big-game player, who is an ice-cool penalty-taker, who can be a target man, who doesn't seem to have any great ego problems, whose disciplinary record is so good that he is always available.

Who will of course, cost less than Ģ10.7 million.

Oh, and incidentally, will be rated as indispensable by possibly the finest footballer in the team that practically invented pass-and-move.

Upgrade away boys. I am so excited to see this player. What a summer it will be.

You wouldn't let me down would you?
Bang on the money with that post mate.

Like many on here, I hope that we can have competition in all positions for all the regular starters. But no one can deny that Dirk has been brilliant for us, especially since Kenny has come back.

He's not perfect, but then again who is?

We should all be happy right now that he is doing the business, and leave it at that until we see what happens come the Summer..

Offline Stussy

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1475 on: April 24, 2011, 01:04:29 PM »
That wasn't a reference to you, and doubtless could have been phrased more diplomatically.

Sorry mate, no problem.


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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1476 on: April 24, 2011, 01:10:58 PM »
I don't think people would look at kuyt as in need of an upgrade if

1. there was a left winger or another winger who could create more.
and
2. if he played less by which I mean there was an alternative to him whereby if he isn't having an effective game or he is out of form he is substituted or given a rest. As it is he plays every minute of every match and people expect more in general play and expect him to say have a suarez kind of impact (in addition to being a fine complement to rest of the team.)

Offline BazC

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1477 on: April 24, 2011, 01:11:09 PM »
I can understand that mate - but I get most of my bans sticking up for my club, my city and our players. I can't help it. If someone slagged my missus off I'd knock them out. I'm the same with Liverpool FC.

The thing is, there's no need for you (or anyone) to be that defensive. No one's slagging Dirk off and being malicious. We all love the fact he scores such important goals. But wishing we had better options for some of the situations we find ourselves in is not slagging him off. At all. From what I've seen in this thread, it's the people who 'come to his rescue' that paint that particular picture.

It's about expanding the squad with Dirk in it and getting players in that position who can offer more when we're faced with a block of 5 midfielders and 4 defenders. Not replacing him all together.


Offline BMW

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1478 on: April 24, 2011, 01:12:36 PM »
I think some people will be very surprised and very wrong if they expect Kuyt to be mainly a bench player next season. He will start a lot of games. He's just signed a new deal, and his versatility means he can start in several positions.

Kuyt will be in the starting XI more than sitting on the bench IMO.

Offline Azzandro

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Re: An Apology To Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #1479 on: April 24, 2011, 01:14:25 PM »
Give him a break, hes our top goalscorer even taking judas into account and has barely played as a frontman all season!

Name other non strikers this season that have knocked in over 10 goals so far?