Author Topic: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership  (Read 233848 times)

Offline ArgImAPirate

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,020
  • rat a tat tat
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1680 on: March 2, 2012, 05:50:11 PM »
I know Emlyn Hughes has won the European Cup and is a legend and all, but I like the look of this Alan Hansen kid.

I'm sure that's what my dad would have said if I pulled a Back to the Future and could have hung out with him.

Coates has upside and is potentially the future. If he makes mistakes, we're hoping he'll learn from them. Carragher's a legend and offers a lot, but he's also going to make mistakes. I haven't seen anything that indicates Coates is more prone to mistake than Carragher. I'd argue the other way around, in fact.

It might seem harsh. Or disloyal. But I want the club to be closer to returning to it's glory days. Sometimes that means putting sentiment aside and doing what's best for the team.

Offline Aitken Drum

  • Plays with his ladle
  • Main Stander
  • **
  • Posts: 193
  • Curse you, Walter O'Malley
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1681 on: March 2, 2012, 05:58:34 PM »

Dalglish said: "He's got a fractured rib, so maybe it will be a few weeks.
 

I hope Kenny's right. However, I've had cracked ribs and they took quite a while to heal--6 months. I could barely move for the first three months.   A player on the Boston Red Sox, Jacoby Ellsbury, cracked his ribs in 2010 and was out for the season--April to September.  Agger may be back quick, but often there is muscle damage along with the broken rib. The rib may heal in a month, but the muscle tears take more time.
The race is not always to the swift nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet.--Damon Runyon

Offline Vulmea

  • Almost saint-like.....
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,294
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1682 on: March 2, 2012, 06:35:38 PM »
Am I being a bit thick here or are you comparing displacing the 06/07 Carragher-Hyypia partnership plus the newly signed Daniel Agger with replacing Carragher today and the Copa America with the FIFA youth championship? ???

apparently you're being deliberately thick

Paletta had potential, he had similar experience to many other quality 20 year olds - he came here too early in his career , he was not ready when he played and his career was badly damaged by throwing him in too early in his career

the views on here have all been suggesting throwing Coates in, he's proven he's up to it, he'll learn from his mistakes - when all the evidence so far has been he isn't ready - he's looked shakey, he was bullied by Oldham,  excuses were made for him when he has played and quite rightly but that does not mean he's ready and it doesn't mean if he plays when he's not ready there's no downside

there are two sides to suggesting playing him thats all I was saying - when comparisons are being made with Jones it seems reasonable to compare Coates with the only other young south american centre half  we've signed
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate, contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.

John F. Kennedy/Shanklyboy.

Offline Wingman

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,808
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1683 on: March 2, 2012, 07:14:18 PM »
I hope Kenny's right. However, I've had cracked ribs and they took quite a while to heal--6 months. I could barely move for the first three months.   

I'll bet you didn't have access to an oxygen chamber and the best medical care money can buy

Offline Al 555

  • Number 1 is Carragher. Number 2 is Carragher. Number 3 is Carragher. Number 4 is Carragher. Likes to play God in his spare time.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,748
  • JFT 96
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1684 on: March 2, 2012, 07:24:02 PM »
apparently you're being deliberately thick

Paletta had potential, he had similar experience to many other quality 20 year olds - he came here too early in his career , he was not ready when he played and his career was badly damaged by throwing him in too early in his career

the views on here have all been suggesting throwing Coates in, he's proven he's up to it, he'll learn from his mistakes - when all the evidence so far has been he isn't ready - he's looked shakey, he was bullied by Oldham,  excuses were made for him when he has played and quite rightly but that does not mean he's ready and it doesn't mean if he plays when he's not ready there's no downside

there are two sides to suggesting playing him thats all I was saying - when comparisons are being made with Jones it seems reasonable to compare Coates with the only other young south american centre half  we've signed

Paletta was a punt a small fee for a player for the reserves A player who in a few years might turn out to be a squad player to compare him with Coates a full International with a proven pedigree and someone who slotted straight into the first team squad is ludicrous. As for not being ready how can you be ready to keep a clean sheet against Aguerro, Higuain, Tevez, Messi and Di Maria in the quarters of a major tournament but not be ready to play for your club side.



One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline Vulmea

  • Almost saint-like.....
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,294
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1685 on: March 2, 2012, 07:39:08 PM »
Paletta was a punt a small fee for a player for the reserves A player who in a few years might turn out to be a squad player to compare him with Coates a full International with a proven pedigree and someone who slotted straight into the first team squad is ludicrous. As for not being ready how can you be ready to keep a clean sheet against Aguerro, Higuain, Tevez, Messi and Di Maria in the quarters of a major tournament but not be ready to play for your club side.


a million in football terms in 2005 was worth what in 2011 - 2m, 3m, 4m? its hardly a small punt is it

Coates has very little additional experience - some international caps for Uruguay over a very short space of time - there is no 'proven pedigree' thats just bollocks - he's got one less cap than Gary Cahill and 6 less than Joleon Lescott..........

how can you be ready - to play alongside your countrymen , in a football tournament in south america, when you've played your whole career in south america playing south american style football and not be ready to play in a different continent, in a club game in the most direct and physical league in the world - I dont know you tell me.

I'm not saying he isn't ready or he is, that he wont be a great player or he will be - just that the arguments being made are myopic
 
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate, contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.

John F. Kennedy/Shanklyboy.

Offline Al 555

  • Number 1 is Carragher. Number 2 is Carragher. Number 3 is Carragher. Number 4 is Carragher. Likes to play God in his spare time.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,748
  • JFT 96
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1686 on: March 2, 2012, 08:42:19 PM »
a million in football terms in 2005 was worth what in 2011 - 2m, 3m, 4m? its hardly a small punt is it

Coates has very little additional experience - some international caps for Uruguay over a very short space of time - there is no 'proven pedigree' thats just bollocks - he's got one less cap than Gary Cahill and 6 less than Joleon Lescott..........

how can you be ready - to play alongside your countrymen , in a football tournament in south america, when you've played your whole career in south america playing south american style football and not be ready to play in a different continent, in a club game in the most direct and physical league in the world - I dont know you tell me.

I'm not saying he isn't ready or he is, that he wont be a great player or he will be - just that the arguments being made are myopic
 

Myopic when you are talking about the most direct physical League on the eve of a game against Arsenal.

If you are worried about the speed and the
 directness then why are you advocating the return of a slow aerially weak converted full back who has shown time and time again that he simply cannot cope against quick players or big strong players.

As they say the proof is in the pudding Coates has started against Brighton, Stoke home and away, Chelsea and Oldham and we have won four and drew one.

We have the choice between one of the most highly rated young Centre backs on the planet or this seasons Christian Poulson someone who is surviving on reputation alone.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline Vulmea

  • Almost saint-like.....
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,294
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1687 on: March 2, 2012, 08:48:47 PM »
Myopic when you are talking about the most direct physical League on the eve of a game against Arsenal.

If you are worried about the speed and the
 directness then why are you advocating the return of a slow aerially weak converted full back who has shown time and time again that he simply cannot cope against quick players or big strong players.

As they say the proof is in the pudding Coates has started against Brighton, Stoke home and away, Chelsea and Oldham and we have won four and drew one.

We have the choice between one of the most highly rated young Centre backs on the planet or this seasons Christian Poulson someone who is surviving on reputation alone.


you really dont have to keep proving my point for me

i'm not advocating anything except Kenny picks the team and we look at it with a bit of balance
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate, contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.

John F. Kennedy/Shanklyboy.

Offline Gnurglan

  • The Swedish Savaloy
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 25,233
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1688 on: March 2, 2012, 08:56:06 PM »
Don't think it matters whether Carra or Coates is the better player right now. We are so eager to bench Maxi and Kuyt, players who contribute, because of their age. We dare to play young players for the future in their place and we like to talk about their bright future. If they don't perform, we have no real problems with that because they are for the future.

CB? Here we have a choice to go with the oldest player in the squad, or a young player who has proven himself in a big international tournament. If we apply the same logic as we do in midfield, Coates should almost be a guaranteed first pick. Not saying we should play Coates in every game when Agger is out, but we should play him at least as much as we play Carra.

          * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline JamesLS7

  • Kopite
  • ****
  • Posts: 574
  • Rafa Is My Hero.
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1689 on: March 2, 2012, 09:22:31 PM »
I'd say Coates is better than Carra as a player now.

The man was young player of the tournament at the Copa America.
When discussing Dirk Kuyt's work rate :

I don't think he works as hard as some people claim. No harder, for example, than Stewart Downing.

18 League Titles and 5 European Cups. Get counting.

Offline Al 555

  • Number 1 is Carragher. Number 2 is Carragher. Number 3 is Carragher. Number 4 is Carragher. Likes to play God in his spare time.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,748
  • JFT 96
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1690 on: March 2, 2012, 09:37:55 PM »
you really dont have to keep proving my point for me

i'm not advocating anything except Kenny picks the team and we look at it with a bit of balance

Lucky Kenny shame the same privilege wasn't afforded to the manager who picked Jamie to play at right back against Boro.

Next thing you will be telling me that dropping Fat Frank hasn't had any repercussions for Villas Boas.

It is absolutely shameful that it took an injury to Carra before the Skrtel Agger partnership was given a chance to flourish.

Haven't we learnt anything from that Jamie couldn't hack it for England nearly two years ago against mediocre opposition and made Altidore look like Pele.

Two years on he is getting game time for me on reputation only and would struggle to nail down a place in a Championship side. If he was from Bury or Birmingham instead of Bootle he would of been gone years ago.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,646
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1691 on: March 2, 2012, 09:40:38 PM »
Lucky Kenny shame the same privilege wasn't afforded to the manager who picked Jamie to play at right back against Boro.

Next thing you will be telling me that dropping Fat Frank hasn't had any repercussions for Villas Boas.

It is absolutely shameful that it took an injury to Carra before the Skrtel Agger partnership was given a chance to flourish.

Haven't we learnt anything from that Jamie couldn't hack it for England nearly two years ago against mediocre opposition and made Altidore look like Pele.

Two years on he is getting game time for me on reputation only and would struggle to nail down a place in a Championship side. If he was from Bury or Birmingham instead of Bootle he would of been gone years ago.
The bit in bold is so true... This is what probably feels like giving birth to 11 lb baby - pain until it's over, but you're happy afterwards.

(I should ask my mom, I was born 11 lb)
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Offline ginlarde

  • Boys Pen
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Aiiiiiiiiiiii?
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1692 on: March 2, 2012, 10:01:41 PM »
These two lads are boss. 8)

Skrtel getting more and more consistent as an enforcer and Agger finally getting a run of games, displaying a calmness and exuding the authority his play had always promised.

Bodes well imo. All great teams are built from the back.

Kenny's doing this right. 8)

Offline Vulmea

  • Almost saint-like.....
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,294
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1693 on: March 2, 2012, 10:12:59 PM »
Lucky Kenny shame the same privilege wasn't afforded to the manager who picked Jamie to play at right back against Boro.

Next thing you will be telling me that dropping Fat Frank hasn't had any repercussions for Villas Boas.

It is absolutely shameful that it took an injury to Carra before the Skrtel Agger partnership was given a chance to flourish.

Haven't we learnt anything from that Jamie couldn't hack it for England nearly two years ago against mediocre opposition and made Altidore look like Pele.

Two years on he is getting game time for me on reputation only and would struggle to nail down a place in a Championship side. If he was from Bury or Birmingham instead of Bootle he would of been gone years ago.

Everybody saw the potential on paper of Agger and Skrtel - especially Rafa who brought them in for exactly that reason they compliment each other perfectly but Agger has been a sick note and Skrtel's form since his knee injury had been average. Skrtel would not have been top of my pick list for MOTM at Wembley after his gutless peformance against Spurs.

Second guessing form is nigh on impossible - which out of form player is going to hit form next - Downing, Carroll, Henderson, Adam, Enrique, Suarez? 

If the manager sticks with a player and he does not come good he gets crucified because he should have being playing somebody else - if he doesn't stick with  a player and another player comes in and fails he should have stuck with the original one - 'fans' always have hindsight, they always judge on results - they see the 'success' they want to see and ignore the bits that dont fit their  view - its human nature and its bollocks but we can't help it

You say you knew Skrtel would have been playing as well as he has I believe you, but I didn't think he would be, I didn't see him fist pumping and leading the defence as he has and I've normally been pro the lad - you say its absolutely shameful its taken so long and its a carra conspiracy and I say you're talking Bollocks and letting your anti Carra vendetta blind you to reality

The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate, contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.

John F. Kennedy/Shanklyboy.

Offline Noble Nayudu

  • Kopite
  • ****
  • Posts: 514
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1694 on: March 2, 2012, 11:44:45 PM »
I hope Carragher starts tomorrow because if Coates makes a mistake tomorrow then the moaners will be out in full force. They will write him off as they have done already with so many of our players. There will be too much  pressure on Coates to perform well and considering the importance of the game tomorrow even a small error will be magnified.  At least, after tomorrow's game, Carragher and his supporters will understand why he will be fourth-choice CB at best next season.
But hopefully we will win.

Offline Redeye

  • Kopite
  • ****
  • Posts: 516
  • 31/1/59 Sunderland 3-1 Wheeler Bimpson Morris
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1695 on: March 2, 2012, 11:51:54 PM »

If you are worried about the speed and the
 directness then why are you advocating the return of a slow aerially weak converted full back who has shown time and time again that he simply cannot cope against quick players or big strong players.



Yet this "slow", "aerially weak "(!), "converted full back" who has "shown time and time again  he simply cannot cope against quick players or big strong players" has somehow managed to amass almost 700 games for the club, selected by a succession of managers.

Notwithstanding, I'll take your word as gospel  for it....
"Everybody at Anfield hopes that in the not too distant future Bill Shankly will lead the club back to the First Division - and also to a Cup Final victory."

Offline therockbox

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,753
  • Funklord
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1696 on: March 3, 2012, 12:22:36 AM »
Yet this "slow", "aerially weak "(!), "converted full back" who has "shown time and time again  he simply cannot cope against quick players or big strong players" has somehow managed to amass almost 700 games for the club, selected by a succession of managers.
An argument that sounds lovely, but one that unfortunately is drizzled with sentimentality and means absolutely nothing when it comes to what he offers now.

Offline Willi

  • Main Stander
  • **
  • Posts: 234
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1697 on: March 3, 2012, 12:34:06 AM »
Undecided Carra or Coates.However,I would prefer to see Martin on the right of the defence, which means Coates playing.

Offline penga

  • AKA Aquilani
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,392
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1698 on: March 3, 2012, 12:42:24 AM »
Everybody saw the potential on paper of Agger and Skrtel - especially Rafa who brought them in for exactly that reason they compliment each other perfectly but Agger has been a sick note and Skrtel's form since his knee injury had been average. Skrtel would not have been top of my pick list for MOTM at Wembley after his gutless peformance against Spurs.

Second guessing form is nigh on impossible - which out of form player is going to hit form next - Downing, Carroll, Henderson, Adam, Enrique, Suarez? 

If the manager sticks with a player and he does not come good he gets crucified because he should have being playing somebody else - if he doesn't stick with  a player and another player comes in and fails he should have stuck with the original one - 'fans' always have hindsight, they always judge on results - they see the 'success' they want to see and ignore the bits that dont fit their  view - its human nature and its bollocks but we can't help it

You say you knew Skrtel would have been playing as well as he has I believe you, but I didn't think he would be, I didn't see him fist pumping and leading the defence as he has and I've normally been pro the lad - you say its absolutely shameful its taken so long and its a carra conspiracy and I say you're talking Bollocks and letting your anti Carra vendetta blind you to reality
??

Offline Al 555

  • Number 1 is Carragher. Number 2 is Carragher. Number 3 is Carragher. Number 4 is Carragher. Likes to play God in his spare time.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,748
  • JFT 96
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1699 on: March 3, 2012, 12:43:19 AM »
Everybody saw the potential on paper of Agger and Skrtel - especially Rafa who brought them in for exactly that reason they compliment each other perfectly but Agger has been a sick note and Skrtel's form since his knee injury had been average. Skrtel would not have been top of my pick list for MOTM at Wembley after his gutless peformance against Spurs.

Second guessing form is nigh on impossible - which out of form player is going to hit form next - Downing, Carroll, Henderson, Adam, Enrique, Suarez? 

If the manager sticks with a player and he does not come good he gets crucified because he should have being playing somebody else - if he doesn't stick with  a player and another player comes in and fails he should have stuck with the original one - 'fans' always have hindsight, they always judge on results - they see the 'success' they want to see and ignore the bits that dont fit their  view - its human nature and its bollocks but we can't help it

You say you knew Skrtel would have been playing as well as he has I believe you, but I didn't think he would be, I didn't see him fist pumping and leading the defence as he has and I've normally been pro the lad - you say its absolutely shameful its taken so long and its a carra conspiracy and I say you're talking Bollocks and letting your anti Carra vendetta blind you to reality



Form let's be brutally honest here form for a centre back means outrunning, outjumping and out anticipating the oppositions forwards. Jamie hasn't been close to being able to do that for two or three years. He has been like a man with fading eyesight who uses never going out and remembering where the furniture is as coping mechanisms. Jamie has been dropping off quick players and then holding their shirts when they beat him, has been blocking off and impeding tall players when they jumped for the ball and worst of all he has been blaming his teammates for his mistakes.

Like that partiality sighted man using coping techniques Jamie only copes on his terms and in his own environment that is when you play games happy with what you have got.

In modern football you either rely on mistakes and individual brilliance to win games or you accept that you have to commit and at times over commit players and leave your Centre backs one one.

With Jamie in the side you are left with only the first option. Leave him one on one with an opponent in space and he will get done time and time again.

As for having a vendetta against Jamie I haven't I am just sick to the back teeth of watching Liverpool trying to stay in games hoping for a mistake or a individual bit of brilliance.

We are far far better than that. Football has moved on and we need to move on.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline Sangria

  • Ally Machoist
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,942
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1700 on: March 3, 2012, 01:19:49 AM »
Yet this "slow", "aerially weak "(!), "converted full back" who has "shown time and time again  he simply cannot cope against quick players or big strong players" has somehow managed to amass almost 700 games for the club, selected by a succession of managers.

Notwithstanding, I'll take your word as gospel  for it....

I reckon Ian Callaghan could still do a job for us. Callaghan must be good if he's managed to amass 856 appearances for us.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Online JackWard33

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,352
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1701 on: March 3, 2012, 01:26:06 AM »

With Jamie in the side you are left with only the first option. Leave him one on one with an opponent in space and he will get done time and time again.

You'll obviously have numerous examples of this from this season then to back up your argument......?

It's evident he's gone backwards as a player but the notion that it's as far as you're saying and that he's an out and out liability that shouldn't even be in the league is ridiculously prejudice, as you always are on this subject.

Offline harleydanger

  • 7/2=3
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,593
  • If I sound stupid, I'm probably casting a line
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1702 on: March 3, 2012, 07:14:04 AM »
You'll obviously have numerous examples of this from this season then to back up your argument......?

It's evident he's gone backwards as a player but the notion that it's as far as you're saying and that he's an out and out liability that shouldn't even be in the league is ridiculously prejudice, as you always are on this subject.

He's been an definite liability for at least a season, a debatable one for the 2 before that.  Drops us deep, loses the ball by hoofing it, undermines the other CB. It's been a scratched record for a very long time. There's 2 reasons he is still near the first team squad...1. His mate gave him a contract extension 2. He's a local lad

Neither of those reasons relate to how he'll play on Saturday.
Normally a player can look great on tubes, but one of the things that's encouraging for me is just the amount of youtube videos on him

Offline rowan_d

  • boat
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,472
  • JFT96
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1703 on: March 3, 2012, 08:19:25 AM »
Everybody saw the potential on paper of Agger and Skrtel - especially Rafa who brought them in for exactly that reason they compliment each other perfectly but Agger has been a sick note and Skrtel's form since his knee injury had been average. Skrtel would not have been top of my pick list for MOTM at Wembley after his gutless peformance against Spurs.




I honestly have no idea whatsoever what this passage means

Offline TLW 84

  • Kopite
  • ****
  • Posts: 556
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1704 on: March 3, 2012, 08:35:39 AM »
I really think that if Kenny thought he had declined as much as people say he has, he wouldn't dream of starting him in this game.

Offline Neil D

  • The new Kop pin-up model. Met Momo in the ASDA.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,296
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1705 on: March 3, 2012, 10:59:31 AM »
Phil jones looks at a top class player to come, come on neil have you seen him at this season. Talent as he is, he is a diaster at centre back and his been this season for man united, positionally he is awful and he is pretty short so has a problem dealing with high balls which has been exposed a number of times this year. Only difference now is jones is under spot light compared to his blackburn days where he played a significant number of games in midfield or a back 5. Jones has been vastly overrated and theres a reason ferguson has moved him to right back and midfield.

Disagree mate I think he's brilliant. I think he's had a steep learning curve playing with the likes of Evans and Smalling in a transitional United defence which has been all over the place because Ferdinand, Vidic, Rafael, Smalling etc have been injured so much and yes he has made mistakes but the reason they have moved him to RB and DM so much is because they don't have a good DM and haven't had RBs fit as above. He is a proper footballer, very intelligent with all the raw gifts.

Exactly.  Another overrated over-hyped English defender.

Nah, Kenny & Clarke wanted to spend £16m on him because he is boss. He is going to be a great player - he is not a run of the mill Prem defender, he could be as good for United as Terry was for Chelsea in his prime. Gutted we missed out on him.


Here is Phil Jones career before this season



and

Seb Coates career before this season



It is abundantly clear which player had the most experience the one who has been playing Top flight Uruguayan Football, had reached the semi final of the South American equivalent of the Champions League, had played in the U20 World Cup and the South American U20 Championship and the one who had won both the Copa America title and the Copa America best young player.

We need to start remembering which team reached the semi's of the World Cup and which Country is it's continents Champions.

It is abundantly clear that Phil Jones had the most Premier League experience and has far more experience at this level in this country than Coates and that is what I said. I didn't make any claim disputing their experience overall, I think you're intelligent enough to see that. Jones had already had a great year at Blackburn, most of it playing at CB and impressing week in, week out. It takes time to adapt to a new country and a different style of football. Coates may be better than Jones in the long haul and I hope he is but if Jones was here he would be in our first team already because he is ready for this league and has excelled in it and Coates is clearly not yet, or Kenny & Steve would pick him ahead of Carra. I don't think the international comparison of Uruguay and England is relevant to this debate and I don't think your point about Ferguson blooding young but Premiership experienced players compares with our management taking their time with a youngster new to this country. I agree with the likes of Tim Vickery, the transition is huge and cannot be made overnight.
If you're visiting Crete this year, Greece or any of the Greek islands please take a minute to visit this website www.findstevencook.co.uk and learn about a missing Red and his family who need your help. Thank you

Offline OldPoem

  • Anny Roader
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
  • This space is for sale.
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1706 on: March 3, 2012, 02:45:11 PM »
Would play him today instead of shouting static one we had today...

Offline Mr Dilkington

  • would rather be too cold than too hot
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,793
  • Never buy the Sun
    • www.level3football.com
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1707 on: March 3, 2012, 02:53:29 PM »
Hmmm....
You change all the lead, sleeping in my head, as the day grows dim, I hear you sing a golden hymn.

Offline Gerrvindh

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,164
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1708 on: March 3, 2012, 02:59:36 PM »
Skrtel is boss. I wasn't convinced of many people's arguments that Agger makes Skrtel tick. In reality, Agger and Skrtel together make the partnership tick. Today we saw how Skrtel absolutely bossed van Persie, ran around and played his heart out, even with Carragher having a mare beside him. 94th minute I suppose was when he was chasing the ball from defense to attack trying to win it back. He's such a prime example of how being functional, spirited, knowing your role in the team, backing your own ability and being completely focused on the pitch are such a plus to any side.
I would prefer a

R.Ferdinand - Terry - A.Ferdinand

Defence.

Offline Vulmea

  • Almost saint-like.....
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,294
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1709 on: March 3, 2012, 04:31:28 PM »
I honestly have no idea whatsoever what this passage means

Think the first sentence is easy enough. 'Skrtel's form since his knee injury had been average' - this is in reponse to the assertion that it had been shameful Skrtel had not played with Agger consistently sooner.

The second sentence was a bit tortuous wasn't it - sorry about that. What I was trying to say was after Skrtels gutless performance against Spurs,  in our 4 - 0 defeat, not only wouldn't I have been picking him to partner Agger, I wouldn't have been picking him at all. Yet the lad has been our most improved player this season and he was immense against Cardiff and led the defence briliantly at Wembley, Consequently I had him as my MOTM  in that game. The basic giste was how he has performed of late shouldn't be used to call team selection from 12 months ago shameful.
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate, contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.

John F. Kennedy/Shanklyboy.

Offline Hazellinho

  • Hyzenthlay. The 5th Benitle's sex couch.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 39,722
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1710 on: March 3, 2012, 08:17:06 PM »
Think the first sentence is easy enough. 'Skrtel's form since his knee injury had been average' - this is in reponse to the assertion that it had been shameful Skrtel had not played with Agger consistently sooner.

The second sentence was a bit tortuous wasn't it - sorry about that. What I was trying to say was after Skrtels gutless performance against Spurs,  in our 4 - 0 defeat, not only wouldn't I have been picking him to partner Agger, I wouldn't have been picking him at all. Yet the lad has been our most improved player this season and he was immense against Cardiff and led the defence briliantly at Wembley, Consequently I had him as my MOTM  in that game. The basic giste was how he has performed of late shouldn't be used to call team selection from 12 months ago shameful.

Skrtel wasn't 'gutless' against Tottenham, he had a poor game are RB - NOT his usual position - and Carragher played at CB. Virtually the whole team was poor that day so why is there a need to single out Skrtel? Carragher was just as bad that day playing in his favoured position so presumably you wouldn't have picked him at all either? Many were calling for Skrtel and Agger to be partnered together for a while as there was always the potential for it to develop and given Carragher's general performances in recent years. The same now applies to Coates, who's a young player with potential. Given the alternatives (when Skrtel or Agger are out) and Coates' potential, it seems logical to give him some games. He might and most likely will make mistakes but at 21 that's expected and part of the game and I'd much rather be playing 21 year old Coates making mistakes than 34 year old Carragher who again unsurprisingly did.
I did not have a long speech prepared for the players. My notes from the game show there was one message I wanted to drill into them. It is written in Spanish. Lucharlo. Fight for it.

Offline The G in Gerrard

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 29,018
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1711 on: March 3, 2012, 08:19:26 PM »
Skrtel keeps getting better and better. Was great again today.

Offline Melbred

  • Kim cloned.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,163
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1712 on: March 3, 2012, 08:29:08 PM »
He is just an absolute monster. One of the best defenders in the league now, and probably our player of the season. Hope Agger's injury doesn't affect his form too much.

Offline JamesLS7

  • Kopite
  • ****
  • Posts: 574
  • Rafa Is My Hero.
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1713 on: March 3, 2012, 08:33:44 PM »
Skrtel or Agger. Who do you guys think is better?


I am glad we have these two beasts.
When discussing Dirk Kuyt's work rate :

I don't think he works as hard as some people claim. No harder, for example, than Stewart Downing.

18 League Titles and 5 European Cups. Get counting.

Offline Vulmea

  • Almost saint-like.....
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,294
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1714 on: March 3, 2012, 08:54:05 PM »
Skrtel wasn't 'gutless' against Tottenham, he had a poor game are RB -

no,  he was unfortunately gutless,  including the foul for his sending off, looking for an early shower and got one - he looked and played like he did not want to be there on the day, and it was in no small measure why we were so poor - the lack of confidence rippled out from him like a bloody wave that day-  please dont make excuses for that performance it didn't deserve any - I also appreciate that the Greek financial meltdown and the rise of neo nazisim in Germany are down to Carra I'm just surprised nobody has raised those issues yet
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate, contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.

John F. Kennedy/Shanklyboy.

Offline Hazellinho

  • Hyzenthlay. The 5th Benitle's sex couch.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 39,722
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1715 on: March 3, 2012, 08:59:56 PM »
no,  he was unfortunately gutless,  including the foul for his sending off, looking for an early shower and got one - he looked and played like he did not want to be there on the day, and it was in no small measure why we were so poor - the lack of confidence rippled out from him like a bloody wave that day-  please dont make excuses for that performance it didn't deserve any - I also appreciate that the Greek financial meltdown and the rise of neo nazisim in Germany are down to Carra I'm just surprised nobody has raised those issues yet

You must have a different interpretation of the word 'gutless' because he had a bad game. It happens to players, it happened to virtually our team thatday but yeah, single out Skrtel for no reason. I don't know if you're a body language expert but I've never seen that from him and don't assume to know how a player feels. What excuses have I made? He was played out of position and that's a fact, like it or not and like I said, you haven't afforded Carragher the same critique despite him being poor that day.

And no, it's blaming Carragher for anything other than playing poorly - I haven't seen anyone say anything other than his on pitch performances - but if you want to defend him for any other reasons you'd like to make up, you can go ahead.
I did not have a long speech prepared for the players. My notes from the game show there was one message I wanted to drill into them. It is written in Spanish. Lucharlo. Fight for it.

Offline The G in Gerrard

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 29,018
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1716 on: March 3, 2012, 09:02:02 PM »
You must have a different interpretation of the word 'gutless' because he had a bad game. It happens to players, it happened to virtually our team thatday but yeah, single out Skrtel for no reason. I don't know if you're a body language expert but I've never seen that from him and don't assume to know how a player feels. What excuses have I made? He was played out of position and that's a fact, like it or not and like I said, you haven't afforded Carragher the same critique despite him being poor that day.

And no, it's blaming Carragher for anything other than playing poorly - I haven't seen anyone say anything other than his on pitch performances - but if you want to defend him for any other reasons you'd like to make up, you can go ahead.

He's abit bizarre in his comments, it was a silly challenge to get sent off but it wasn't anywhere near gutless

Offline Cicero

  • Main Stander
  • **
  • Posts: 89
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1717 on: March 3, 2012, 09:10:05 PM »
Our CB partnership has been fantastic this season. Skrtel for me is the player of the season so far.

Offline Vulmea

  • Almost saint-like.....
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,294
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1718 on: March 3, 2012, 09:11:44 PM »
You must have a different interpretation of the word 'gutless' because he had a bad game. It happens to players, it happened to virtually our team thatday but yeah, single out Skrtel for no reason. I don't know if you're a body language expert but I've never seen that from him and don't assume to know how a player feels. What excuses have I made? He was played out of position and that's a fact, like it or not and like I said, you haven't afforded Carragher the same critique despite him being poor that day.

And no, it's blaming Carragher for anything other than playing poorly - I haven't seen anyone say anything other than his on pitch performances - but if you want to defend him for any other reasons you'd like to make up, you can go ahead.

gutless: lacking courage or determination

singled out because on the day he was 'gutless', same way I singled him out last week for being fantastic
just writing it as I see it - is it ok to write I thought he looked pumped up and determined last week because as you say I'm not a body language expert.............

The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate, contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.

John F. Kennedy/Shanklyboy.

Offline Hazellinho

  • Hyzenthlay. The 5th Benitle's sex couch.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 39,722
Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1719 on: March 3, 2012, 09:13:40 PM »
What was so gutless about it? I'd assume every player wants to play and play well unless there's anything proven otherwise, and there wasn't at White Hart Lane.

And I'll ask you again, how do you think did Carragher play in that game?
« Last Edit: March 3, 2012, 09:16:34 PM by Hazell »
I did not have a long speech prepared for the players. My notes from the game show there was one message I wanted to drill into them. It is written in Spanish. Lucharlo. Fight for it.