Author Topic: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.  (Read 55379 times)

Offline xerxes1

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #600 on: January 7, 2011, 12:51:50 PM »
Oh my God.The clamour for Owen Coyle really does sum up the impattient modern day football fan.I bet those who want coyle are the same as those who now mistrust NESV for their lack of movement on Hodgson.I like Coyle.He is a good coach.
But has only been one for 5 minutes.Seriously - theres too much of this shit on RAWK now.
Or does it reflect a preparedness on the part of some of our support to look forwards, rather than backwards? To consider that what a manager might achieve is more important than what he has already achieved? To acknowledge that Coyle has achieved more as a a manager to date than Shankly,paisley, Fahan and Dalglish had done on appointment?

I am "Coyle neutral", a contender definitely, nor the obvious choice. With kenny on the Board the two might enjoy the fruiful relationship that Dein and Wenger enjoyed at Arsenal.
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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #601 on: January 7, 2011, 12:51:54 PM »
I can understand why Hodgson is still here.. I can understand it if the aftermath (probably a loss if we're honest) of the Manchester United game is to fall on his shoulders. The difficulty, of course, comes if it's an emphatic win. A win against Blackpool and then a home win against Everton could seal his future for the season.

Is this a good thing? There are arguments for and against, but I'm betting that NESV are hoping that this happens. They are clearly not ready and their plans haven't reached fruition just yet. I'm sure that the actions behind the scenes have stepped up in intensity - but as much as it pains me to say it - we've really got to think long term.

In many, many ways I want Roy gone RIGHT NOW. THIS SECOND. And there would be short term satisfaction in that. Even the vitriol and gnashing and wailing in the press would be most welcome - it would revert to 'them and us' once again (With your usual balanced exceptions). It's not sitting well with us that the press appear to be almost schizophrenic in their treatment of Liverpool FC at the moment. Their usual bile and guff is still there in droves - everyone from Rafa to the fans are getting blamed for everything as per usual - so it's business as normal there for the nations media. But then in steps their other personality - they clearly are out of their depth and don't know what to do. How to quite balanced their hysteria regarding the club with wanting to promote and back the only English manager to take the helm of a 'top four' club. The fact that he's making a dogs dinner of it doesn't really change their agenda. Whatever Roy accomplishes here will be down to him and he will get the credit. Not the club. You can bank on that.

But. Media aside. What other gains can be made here? What advantages does booting Roy into touch offer? NESV could gain short term satisfaction and thanks for 'acting quickly' from fans so fed up with football and what remains of their club that they are desperate to see action. Any action. NOW! So, short term appeasment is on the cards. That will make people happy. For a while. But then comes the next can of worms. Despite what people say, whoever comes in will be in a tricky position. If it's one of the LMA's (And obviously Media's) pets then they too will receive short shrift from the fans. The LMA and Media cannot insult, deride and take the piss out of LFC for decades without receiving some sort of backlash. Anyone coming that is seen as 'in' with the British media and 'in' with the LMA will evoke suspicion. Obviously depending on who it is - there will be most backing them (Obviously not if it's the likes of O'Neill or Allardyce who will be immediately hated and shunned from day one by a large proportion of the fanbase) - but there will always be someone that won't.

So. Where have we got to? Sacking Roy will feel good. But for how long? If the plans that NESV are obviously working on aren't in place then rushing them through will achieve nothing but more strife. Apart from anything else important decisions will have to be made - Roys severance is one thing - £3M that would be leaving the club. £3M that might do some good. £3M that might be needed. Then we come to the possibility of bringing a GOOD manager in that's already employed elsewhere (And most of the good ones are) - so if someone is brought in full time then you may well have yet another payoff to a club to release that manager. More good money leaving the club after bad. To appease the fans (including people like me). Or you could take a gamble on a manager out of contract, but you if you take that route then questions clearly need to be asked why any particular manager is out of work at that particular time. You also have to analyse their results, impact to the team and how they fit the strategy of the new owners. This (it goes without saying) is also something that has to be analysed in great detail to any potential new man coming in.

What if we take the route of short-termism? Temporary appointments? Something that certainly could turn into a recipe for disaster - we've just had so many examples in recent seasons and in recent decades of clubs that jump on the NOW! NOW NOW! Bandwagon. Nothing is certain in life, but it's pretty odds on that short term appointments on the whole (Unlesss you're escaping relegation) tend not to work. However, The other side of the coin and yet another potential problem with a short term appointment (if another target has been wooed, selected and setup for the new season) - is bizarrely if the short-term replacement comes in and does a sterling job. What then? You get to the end of the season. The club has spent more millions securing the manager to start a new reign - and yet the fans will probably want a successful 'short term' appointment to stay. If they do stay then that's more money and time gone for the club. If they go and are seen to be 'unfairly replaced', then seething resentment will appear once again against the owners and the club. And once again the fans are going to be massively divided. Say Kenny was brought in. Did an amazing job. Got us to 2nd and won the UEFA Cup? How many people would want him to be 'booted out' once the season ends? A massive, massive can of worms. Any new man coming in will be unfairly treated and thought of by the fans and potentially by the media.


This leaves us somewhere between a rock and a hard place. My personal view is that if the club sticks with Roy then we are getting relegated. Looking at stats from Hodgson's career - I think we'll take a dip in the second half of the season. No other team really has hit much form - but I've never seen a season where most teams don't put a run together at some point. Past statistics strongly suggest that we won't be a team that will achieve this. Given we are 4 points from relegation - but more importantly 5 points from the bottom of the table, this is a concern.


There is no easy choice here for NESV. It's a minefield. Short termism is proven time and again not to work (Except at a very basic 'saving the club from relegation' level). Long termism would be the order of the day in most circumstances - but the world isn't fair and things don't always go as you expect and sometimes your hand is forced.

There is a saying: A wise man does immediately what a non-wise man does eventually.
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Online redmark

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #602 on: January 7, 2011, 12:52:11 PM »
Another English manager is the last thing we need.

I don't think anyone's suggested Allardyce yet.
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Offline Danny Boys Dad

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #603 on: January 7, 2011, 12:52:54 PM »
Coyle sitting on the bench in his red LFC tracksuit top, red LFC shorts and red LFC socks? No thanks, he's a wierdo.
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Offline Stretch Armstrong

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #604 on: January 7, 2011, 12:53:01 PM »
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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #605 on: January 7, 2011, 12:53:37 PM »
I wonder if they are leaving Roy in charge for the time being because they would like the new man (whoever he may be) to get off to a decent start and not a tonking at Old trafford. Let Roy get beaten and then its all Roy's fault, with someone else riding in on their white horse.

No - usual practice would be to let the assistant manager take charge for that game (as Ipswich are doing this weekend, Jewell will take charge after the cup game).
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Offline rj2005

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #606 on: January 7, 2011, 12:53:52 PM »
What about Allardyce?

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Offline myrlas

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #608 on: January 7, 2011, 12:54:45 PM »
As posted above -

Coyle has 6 years experience of continual improvement.
Hodgson has 35 years experience of consistent mediocrity.

They are not the same.


Still Coyle has a poorer away record than Hodgson. Explain that please?
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Offline Phil_88

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #609 on: January 7, 2011, 12:54:48 PM »
What about Allardyce?

taking the piss . . . .  right?

Offline slaphead

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #610 on: January 7, 2011, 12:55:04 PM »
Another English manager is the last thing we need.

Aye but a Scottish one would do rightly.
Or a certain Danish, Portuguese or Dutch one

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #611 on: January 7, 2011, 12:55:05 PM »
There is a saying: A wise man does immediately what a non-wise man does eventually.

A wise man does at once what a fool does finally.

Although I get your point.
I trust the King, but if we lose a few more on the trot now - he may have to step aside, and we have to purchase another manager in the middle of the season. If we are relegated, this could be the end of our ambitions to win any title the next 100 years.

Offline Mewtwo

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #612 on: January 7, 2011, 12:55:23 PM »
Just get Roy out, anyone will do

Offline montysmum

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #613 on: January 7, 2011, 12:55:38 PM »
What about Allardyce?

Hope that was meant as a joke!
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Offline Shauno

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #614 on: January 7, 2011, 12:56:03 PM »
Reiterating a point made earlier about Owen Coyle as this does really show the desperation that has gripped people on this board.

I really cannot believe some people are thinking of getting rid of a stop gap manager, and replacing him with an unproven, inexperienced manager would be anything short of idiocy.

If Owen Coyle is appointed as the next LFC manager, I will chop my left leg off with a spoon, no sound thinking, logical and intelligent business man would invest in him, it's a no brainer.
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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #615 on: January 7, 2011, 12:56:22 PM »
Oh my God.

The clamour for Owen Coyle really does sum up the impattient modern day football fan.
I bet those who want coyle are the same as those who now mistrust NESV for their lack of movement on Hodgson.

I like Coyle.
He is a good coach.
But has only been one for 5 minutes.

Seriously - theres too much of this shit on RAWK now.


I agree, apart form the five minutes bit. Coyle hasn't just arrived on the management scene. Hes been one for about four or five years now.
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Offline montysmum

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #616 on: January 7, 2011, 12:56:38 PM »
Just get Roy out, anyone will do

No, anyone will not do.  That was how we ended up with Roy for God's sake.

We need a good manager, not some also ran who doesnt have a clue
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Offline Schmidt

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #617 on: January 7, 2011, 12:56:40 PM »
No - usual practice would be to let the assistant manager take charge for that game (as Ipswich are doing this weekend, Jewell will take charge after the cup game).


I'm not sure having Sammy in charge is any better to be honest, he surely has some input into current tactics.

Also, as superficial as it is, for some reason I really want a manager who wears a decent suit and not a tracksuit.

Online Brentie

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #618 on: January 7, 2011, 12:57:01 PM »
Roy Hodgson is an old manager who has been set in his ways for 35 years and has said himself that he won't change his methods. In addition, his "ways" are some of the most dour, anti-football tactics known to mankind.

Owen Coyle is an exciting, young, up and coming manager who likes his teams to play good football, who has a winning attitude and one that many could imagine staying around and building a dynasty.

This is why it's not the same. The only similarities between them are that they're British. You're argument seems to be "well Hodgson was popular and that's turned out shit and Coyle is popular, so he'll obviously be shit". It doesn't make a lot of sense.

Coyle isn't my top choice by the way, but I would not be disappointed to see him as Liverpool manager. And there really are no similarities between him and Hodgson.

Good for him. Let him go manage at a semi big club like Newcastle or Everton and if he's succesful then we'll talk.

Fucking hell people. We need a manager who is used to the 24/7 media glare. We need a manager who can manage big egos, fight player power. We need a manager who will instantly command respect the minute he enters the dressing room. We need a manager who is used to having high expectations. We need a manager who is used to managing big name players. Who is used to scouting big money targets. Who has experience of winning things. Who has managed in the Champions League.

Owen Coyle is not that manager. Taking Burnley to the premier League and making Bolton play good football doesnt fucking mean he's ready to manage Liverpool Foobtall Club. Have we learned nothing from the failures of Hodgson, Francis, Allardyce, Rioch, Walker etc....
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Offline jayred19

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #619 on: January 7, 2011, 12:57:06 PM »
What about Allardyce?

would  never have him sucks fergies cock
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Offline Andy @ Allerton

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #620 on: January 7, 2011, 12:57:21 PM »
A wise man does at once what a fool does finally.

Although I get your point.

I know what the saying is. But I choose not to couch it in those exact words. :)
Football has reached the ninth gate of farce and pathetic, unbelievable trite nonsense. It's supposed to be a game and it's turned into pantomime, hype, quilts and bellends.

Offline caronia

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #621 on: January 7, 2011, 12:57:22 PM »
Wo
Just get Roy out, anyone will do
[/quote
Just get Roy out, anyone will do

Very informed view that....shakes head.

Offline Danny Boys Dad

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #622 on: January 7, 2011, 12:57:24 PM »
Just get Roy out, anyone will do

Moyes? Plenty of Evertonians want him out.
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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #623 on: January 7, 2011, 12:57:39 PM »
Just get Roy out, anyone will do

Thats the spirit.

Offline Stretch Armstrong

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #624 on: January 7, 2011, 12:58:33 PM »
would  never have him sucks fergies cock

I assume this is speculation
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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #625 on: January 7, 2011, 12:58:58 PM »
If we take on Coyle as manager it going down the route of Hodgson the Media's man of the moment.

Fuck that again.

Yep, been there, still doing that.
No thank you.

Offline bleedsred1978

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #626 on: January 7, 2011, 12:59:32 PM »
would  never have him sucks fergies cock

I knew she was ugly but didnt think she actually had a dick..
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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #627 on: January 7, 2011, 12:59:54 PM »
This man hunt doesn’t sit well with me, Roy is and always has been a decent man and our supporters treatment of this man has been shameful.


From a distance I'd always thought Roy was a decent bloke. However, after observing 6 months of self-preservation, blame shifting, blatant xenophobia, propagating lies and attacking the clubs own support for trying to oust G&H, I see little evidence to back up your claim.   This is before we even get onto the problem of results.

Roy only has one priority - protecting himself. This is completely at odds with the socialist foundations Shankly built Liverpool up on.

Offline Greyfox

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #628 on: January 7, 2011, 01:00:19 PM »
Gut feeling, on an interim basis it should be Kenny and Thommo....then if the time in the summer came for a "new" appointment ...the two of them could be moved upstairs to bolster the board's footballing background.

With Kenny out of the country until next week.....as someone who's got the balls for the fight at OT...get Thommo in to lead the team for the Sunday, until Kenny returns next week for the bitters etc...

Offline Torpedo Tommy

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #629 on: January 7, 2011, 01:00:40 PM »
I just rewatched the Blackburn match (don't ask me why) and I'm finding it a bit ridiculous that the players seem to have got off Scott free on this one. Roy out and all that yeah, but let me tell you, the tactics against Blackburn were barely half the problem. I really can't think of a manager that's available that can come in and suddenly get this bunch of mugs who call themselves footballers playing in the manner they're supposed to. I'm beginning to think NESV may share my concerns.

Mate I'd love to share your opinion on this but have a look at the scenario at Bolton last season.

They were dead in the water under Gary Megson and looked at one point to be doomed to relegation.  In comes Owen Coyle and waves the magic wand that Roy refers to and they escape relegation.  This season, with very few squad changes, he has them top half.  And lets be fair, whilst we apparently were the better team last weekend, the game at The Reebok could easily have gone their way.

The game against Blackburn seemed to be a case of 11 players performing poorly.  If 11 players are performing poorly then it might suggest the 11 on the field had lost confidence in the game plan they were having imposed on them.

It's not schoolground 5-a-side were players just turn up and do what they want.  They should be sticking to a gameplan - the longer that gameplan remains fruitless the less the players confidence in it remains.

The majority of these players want to be challenging in Europe - not the middle of the Premier League.  Roy's tactics suited Fulham - not so Liverpool for that reason alone.  They offer little chance of success.

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #630 on: January 7, 2011, 01:00:50 PM »
HUZZAH! a single thread.


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Offline rj2005

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #631 on: January 7, 2011, 01:00:54 PM »
would  never have him sucks fergies cock

Source?

Offline banksybanks

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #632 on: January 7, 2011, 01:01:11 PM »
probably a very good idea not to hold an open press conference given the uncertainty at this moment.

would be completely over shaddowed by endless questions about Hodgons future, complete distraction from what I see as a very important game on Sunday.


Didn't we have months of that while Rafa was here though? Shame no-one thought of it then.

Offline jayred19

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #633 on: January 7, 2011, 01:01:21 PM »
I assume this is speculation
let united get there goal diff up wen he was at blackburn 7-0
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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #634 on: January 7, 2011, 01:01:26 PM »
Fucking hell people. We need a manager who is used to the 24/7 media glare. We need a manager who can manage big egos, fight player power. We need a manager who will instantly command respect the minute he enters the dressing room. We need a manager who is used to having high expectations. We need a manager who is used to managing big name players. Who is used to scouting big money targets. Who has experience of winning things. Who has managed in the Champions League.
That calibre of manager was not queuing up last time. Are things sufficiently improved that they will this time?

Parking the well worn Kenny/Rafa arguments, there are very few who fit that billing- and would come. Rijkaard, Deschamps - and that's about it.
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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #635 on: January 7, 2011, 01:01:53 PM »

First however, the ground rules.


Everybody wants him gone - so posting "Why is he still here?" or "Just go" or anything similar is just a waste of everyone's time. DO NOT DO IT.
Unless you have a good theory backed with evidence that Fenway are doing nothing the DON'T SIMPLY POST THAT EITHER.
And remember just because they have not personally told you what they are doing does not amount to evidence of inactivity.


Any post demanding Roy's immediate removal must be backed up with who you would have immediately take his place and for how long.  Managers who are currently unavailable (either through having jobs or being on a cruiseliner in the middle of the Gulf of Oman do not count).


You will have noticed a slight slackening of the reins since the RAWK Editor message about the manager.  However the basic rules of decency still apply.  Abuse just for the sake of it will not be tolerated.


THINK OF THE SERVER.  Nobody wants to see your tired internet meme pic of Darth Vader screaming or Homer or Family Guy or the man typing his hands to stumps.  It was funny once....   in 2003. Now grow up.


Repeated violations of the above codes could see Roy outlasting you.

These basic ground rules seem to simple enough, so presumably the idiots who breach them just haven't read them. One of the oldest and wisest pieces of advice for using a message board is very simply to 'read more and post less'.

I'd particularly like to point some of our new members in that particular direction. :wave
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Offline Stretch Armstrong

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #636 on: January 7, 2011, 01:03:12 PM »
From a distance I'd always thought Roy was a decent bloke. However, after observing 6 months of self-preservation, blame shifting, blatant xenophobia, propagating lies and attacking the clubs own support for trying to oust G&H, I see little evidence to back up your claim.   This is before we even get onto the problem of results.

Roy only has one priority - protecting himself. This is completely at odds with the socialist foundations Shankly built Liverpool up on.

Spot on - I respected Roy until he started using our own fans, players and former managers (who won trophies) as the scape-goat; only when you look deeper do you realise that Roy has a track record of this type of behaviour.  He's interested in self-preservation only, he's not part of LFC and keeps distancing himself from the team and players
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Offline the jesus

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #637 on: January 7, 2011, 01:05:06 PM »
That calibre of manager was not queuing up last time. Are things sufficiently improved that they will this time?

Parking the well worn Kenny/Rafa arguments, there are very few who fit that billing- and would come. Rijkaard, Deschamps - and that's about it.

If Deschamp is to believed your down to a list of one.
It was expectations of who we were going to get post Rafa that led a lot of fans to call for his sacking. This time we need a bit of realism.
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Offline merseymack

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #638 on: January 7, 2011, 01:05:56 PM »
If he's with the team on sunday and it is infact his last match then i will be behind him and the team. This was his last chance at the big time and it never worked out for him. He was out of his depth and maybe with hindsight he'll realise this. He has sid he is doing his best abd we should thank him for that. His best was nowhere near good enough for this club. If the decision is all but done then I see no reason to pull the man apart. If it is his last game then he owes us a win, providing no major gaffs (resting gerrard, torres) then we can do it. Goodbye , sorry it didn't work out but we have to put the club above all else

Offline NZ Red

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Re: Roy's Future, and more importantly what happens next. All in here please.
« Reply #639 on: January 7, 2011, 01:06:32 PM »
From a distance I'd always thought Roy was a decent bloke. However, after observing 6 months of self-preservation, blame shifting, blatant xenophobia, propagating lies and attacking the clubs own support for trying to oust G&H, I see little evidence to back up your claim.   This is before we even get onto the problem of results.

Roy only has one priority - protecting himself. This is completely at odds with the socialist foundations Shankly built Liverpool up on.

I feel exactly the same. From day one he's come across as someone only out to boost and protect his own reputation. He's never become part of the club in the manner our previous managers have. In a recent press conference, I couldn't help but laugh when the reporter began a question with: "now we know you're not one to look for excuses Roy...". I can't wait to here his pile of reasons why he didn't succeed at Liverpool once he's got the sack.