Author Topic: Carra: Treble win in 2001 is bigger than Istanbul (Read 16964 times)

Y2J · « **on:** December 6, 2010, 11:01:14 AM »

Liverpool FC's Jamie Carragher insists treble win under Gerard Houllier was bigger than Istanbul
Dec 6 2010 by James Pearce, Liverpool Echo

JAMIE CARRAGHER insists winning the treble under Gerard Houllier in 2001 was an even bigger achievement than lifting the European Cup in Istanbul four years later.

The Liverpool defender will have to sit out tonight’s clash against Houllier’s Aston Villa at Anfield as he recovers from surgery on his dislocated shoulder.

But Carragher believes everyone connected with the club owes a debt of gratitude to Houllier for helping to restore the Reds’ reputation on the continent.

Carragher was part of the 2001 UEFA Cup-winning side which followed triumphs in the finals of the League Cup and FA Cup.

“Gerard put us back on the map in Europe with that UEFA Cup run in 2001,” he said.

“He was also the first manager to get us into the Champions League.

“The treble in 2001 is definitely under-appreciated. That season was unbelievable. To win a trophy in a season is a great thing. To win three?

“It’s not just the finals. You’ve got the quarter-finals and the semi-finals – they’re all massive games. Everything is on a knife-edge. Lose one game and it all falls apart.

“The treble is actually a better achievement than Istanbul. Istanbul as a one off will never be beaten by anyone but someone wins the Champions League every year.

“To win three cup competitions in one season – that’s not something that happens very often, not just at Liverpool but anywhere.”

Carragher believes Houllier also deserves some praise for the Reds’ remarkable Champions League success under Rafa Benitez in 2005.

Some 12 of the 14 Liverpool players involved that night were signed or nurtured by the Frenchman, who was in Istanbul to share the triumph with them.

“Don’t get me wrong – the players and Rafa, it was our team,” Carragher added.

“But a lot of the players Gerard brought through played a major part in Istanbul. He’s got to take some of the credit.

“Whenever a manager leaves it’s because things haven’t gone too well towards the end – it was the same with Rafa Benitez.

“But what Gerard left was winners in the team. He didn’t inherit a team of winners.

“Even though the team wasn’t doing too well, there were players in the squad who knew how to win trophies.

“Myself, Sami (Hyypia), Stevie (Gerrard), Michael (Owen), Didi (Hamann), John Arne Riise. All these players had played in major finals. That made Rafa Benitez’s job a bit easier coming in – he had players who knew how to win.”

Carragher says Houllier also left a legacy in terms of eradicating the booze culture at Anfield and improving training facilities.

The centre-back, who recently clocked up his 650th appearance for the Reds, believes he wouldn’t still be playing without Houllier’s guidance.

“The club and the team he came to was maybe set in its ways from the old days; going out drinking and enjoying your wins,” he said.

“He certainly put a stop to that and he was certainly proved right by the success he had in his first few seasons.

“When we won the treble in 2001 – that’s when the penny finally dropped.

“After the FA Cup final, no one was allowed a drink even though we had won – and we went on to win the UEFA Cup final. These things make a difference.

“The fact I’m still playing now, and you look at Danny Murphy, Stevie, Michael Owen, (Emile) Heskey - all those players from back then are still playing around the 30 mark or over. A lot of that is down to the manager.

“It probably wouldn’t have been possible (to play 650 games) without the advice he gave me off the pitch.

“He’s someone who came in just after Arsene Wenger and revolutionised English football in terms of how we look after ourselves. He was the biggest influence on my career because of what I won with him, how he influenced me as a player and what he gave me off the pitch.”

Houllier’s progress at Anfield was halted by heart problems in October 2001. He rushed back five months later but couldn’t turn the Reds from challengers into champions.

In the last two years of his tenure his signings failed and he was sacked in May 2004 but Carragher insists he will get the warm reception he deserves at Anfied tonight.

“He came back too soon (after heart surgery),” Carragher said. “Obviously it didn’t help him that summer when he made certain decisions but for the first three or four years he was the best manager I’ve had.

“There were signings that didn’t work but look at Sami Hyypia – what a signing he was. Markus Babbel, Didi Hamann, Stephane Henchoz, Gary Mac – these signings.

“Look at what Heskey did in the treble season, the way he made me and Danny Murphy better players and brought Steven Gerrard through.”

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2010/12/06/liverpool-fc-s-jamie-carragher-insists-treble-win-under-gerard-houllier-was-bigger-than-istanbul-100252-27773169/3/

I beg to disagree Jamie la, while winning three cups in one season was a massive achievement, competing against and beating the best in Europe is just something else.

It is the pinnacle of club football.

Grobbelrevell · « **Reply #1 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:02:40 AM »

There's already a thread on this mate and it's already locked.

drpepe · « **Reply #2 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:03:16 AM »

Y2J · « **Reply #3 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:03:34 AM »

Didn't see it on the front page ,my bad.

Mods delete it then.

RedinExile · « **Reply #4 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:13:59 AM »

Hopefully not before I get to say:

“The treble is actually a better achievement than Istanbul. "

Laughable.

Dixon_Cox · « **Reply #5 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:18:05 AM »

What a joke.

hide5seek · « **Reply #6 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:18:44 AM »

I don't agree with him but he has the right to his opinion.

filthy1980 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:19:56 AM »

JC is starting to get a little deluded in his old age,

i can see his point about it being an under appreciated achievement, but better then istanbul?

i think JC clearly has an emotional attachment to GH which is fine (if not a little strange considering it was rafa who stuck him at CB and turned him from a utility defender into one for the best CB around)

Skrtels Head · « **Reply #8 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:23:52 AM »

Quote from: filthy1980 on December 6, 2010, 11:19:56 AM

JC is starting to get a little deluded in his old age,

i can see his point about it being an under appreciated achievement, but better then istanbul?

i think JC clearly has an emotional attachment to GH which is fine (if not a little strange considering it was rafa who stuck him at CB and turned him from a utility defender into one for the best CB around)

He's been hanging around with uncle Roy for too long.

Incognito · « **Reply #9 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:26:37 AM »

I think people are reading a bit too much into this. It was a great achievement and I personally enjoyed it as much as I enjoyed Istanbul.

Surprised tho that no one has blasted Houllier for extending the mentioned players pro footy life...I'm not doing that in mentioning this, but with all the over-analysing...well, u get my drift

neel2108 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:28:08 AM »

Like others have said, he's entitled to his opinion, but i think the vast majority of Liverpool fans will disagree. It was a fantastic achievement and shouldn't be ignored, but Istanbul was a bigger one. Simple as.

Carra really does love his old boss though, that much is clear.

gollne · « **Reply #11 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:28:36 AM »

This is so daft by Jamie. Sure he is entitled to his opinion but imo his opinion is shit.

Barneylfc · « **Reply #12 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:28:50 AM »

“The treble is actually a better achievement than Istanbul. Istanbul as a one off will never be beaten by anyone but someone wins the Champions League every year.

“To win three cup competitions in one season – that’s not something that happens very often, not just at Liverpool but anywhere.”

I can see what he's saying. To a certain extent I agree with him in that it is a better achievement winning three trophies than winning one. The treble is hugely underrated.

drpepe · « **Reply #13 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:29:46 AM »

he can say what he wants, if that is his personal opinion on the 2 managers then so be it...

But on the subject of the winnings, I reckon that by most impartial judgements the UEFA CL has more prestige than the WAFA, FA and Milk cup, even if they were all in the same year... simple as

Crosby Nick · « **Reply #14 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:30:52 AM »

Hopefully this will stay open and can be debated without people resorting to isults…

In my view he is wrong but they are both amazing achievements. To win 3 cups in a year was incredible – to stay undefeated (ok we lost at Palace!) for 25 cup games and win every knock out competition we were in for was brilliant and will be very hard for anyone to repeat again. The games came so thick and fast towards the end (from memory one spell went:

UEFA: Barca - Thurs
FA: Wycombe – Sun
League: Ipswich – Tue
League: Leeds – Fri
League: Everton – Mon
UEFA: Barca – Thurs
League: Spurs – Sun

I also feel it has since been derided, especially by other fans as if it’s something to be belittled rather than celebrated. Well fuck them – it was our first European trophy in 17 years and our first FA Cup in almost a decade so nothing to be sniffed at. I maintain that the teams we beat in the build up to the final were Champions League standard in other years, backed up by then getting Barca and Roma in our group the next season.

Having said all that though – the Champions League tops it for me. I can only remember 84 as a kid (and then I only remember watching it in a hotel room in Devon with my Dad having kittens due to a pre-match powercut). I never thought I’d see us back at the very top of Europe in my lifetime. It was so out of the blue that unless we win the league again it will always be the favourite trophy I’ve seen us win.

blert596 · « **Reply #15 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:31:33 AM »

Now if the treble had involved the league then I'd have agreed with him.

Rohit · « **Reply #16 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:31:50 AM »

The thing is winning three trophies is great, but winning the champions league is what puts you on the map worldwide and i dont get why carra loves houiller so much. Till benitez came and converted into a centreback i kind of doubt he would have the hero status with the fans as he wasnt the best of fullbacks.

Alf · « **Reply #17 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:33:28 AM »

Absence makes the heart grow fonder. I bet Carra wasn't saying that about GH 6 months after he left the club.

drpepe · « **Reply #18 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:34:52 AM »

Quote from: Rohit on December 6, 2010, 11:31:50 AM

The thing is winning three trophies is great, but winning the champions league is what puts you on the map worldwide and i dont get why carra loves houiller so much. Till benitez came and converted into a centreback i kind of doubt he would have the hero status with the fans as he wasnt the best of fullbacks.

good point

i was very frustrated at carra as a player under houllier

could have seen him leave no problem

he became a legend under rafa

scared_person · « **Reply #19 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:34:56 AM »

I suppose it is unique. Plenty of other Liverpool players can boast a european cup medal, not many have that particular treble. For me personally though, Istanbul felt 100 times better.

Am I allowed to say that this screams of emnity towards the previous manager?

JohnBarnesBigToe · « **Reply #20 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:36:34 AM »

Champions League was far the stronger competition of the two. Juventus, Chelsea and Milan would all have been worthy champions that year. However to be fair to Carra, that season taken as a whole was better, three cups and a Champions League place was a hell of an achievement.

Prelude no.5 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:37:23 AM »

Quote from: Alf on December 6, 2010, 11:33:28 AM

Absence makes the heart grow fonder. I bet Carra wasn't saying that about GH 6 months after he left the club.

I'm quite sure that he won't be saying otherwise in 6 years time. He'd still consider Rafa & his achievements less.

No.7 The King · « **Reply #22 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:41:31 AM »

Quote from: Rohit on December 6, 2010, 11:31:50 AM

The thing is winning three trophies is great, but winning the champions league is what puts you on the map worldwide and i dont get why carra loves houiller so much. Till benitez came and converted into a centreback i kind of doubt he would have the hero status with the fans as he wasnt the best of fullbacks.

Probably that Benitez was readying a Carra-less future for Liverpool.

drpepe · « **Reply #23 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:43:40 AM »

Quote from: JohnBarnesBigToe on December 6, 2010, 11:36:34 AM

Champions League was far the stronger competition of the two. Juventus, Chelsea and Milan would all have been worthy champions that year. However to be fair to Carra, that season taken as a whole was better, three cups and a Champions League place was a hell of an achievement.

would it have changed matters if gerrard hadnt scored that own-goal in the CC final vs chelsea?

CL, CC and 5th place vs UEFA , FAC, CC and 3rd (no CL qualification)

Cid · « **Reply #24 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:44:11 AM »

Istanbul was magical and as a fan I can think of few other moments I have been happier..it was like a dream, the world changed for the better and for a few moments, anything was possible.

For Carra, look at this from a professional viewpoint. All the stars aligned and with a lot of red heart, a lot of luck and a boost from the fans we made it..but the treble was different. It demonstrated a consistency and a team spirit over an extended period that must have had all the players on a high..perhaps believing that we were finally rising back to where we belonged and proving again and again we were the best.

As a fan, Istanbul cannot be equaled..but if I were a player, the treble would mean far more to me.

UNO · « **Reply #25 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:46:54 AM »

Oh yea that's why all the top teams in Europe are playing their reserves and young players in these "Important" Cups! Who cares about what Carragher said anyway. He may be the luckiest player in the world to have made a fortune with his limited abilities but definitely not the smartest.

jaygraham · « **Reply #26 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:50:06 AM »

Both incredible acheivements.

But istanbul was twice the size of the cup treble. Carras going overboard with the houllier praise at the moment.

ziggyy · « **Reply #27 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:50:33 AM »

Boss, he hasn't beaten you yet...

ladcameo · « **Reply #28 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:51:12 AM »

earlier also i saw him place Dudek ahead of reina in his all time list, guess leave fernando in his starting 11... always in illusion believes shouting and yelling is leadership, made a fool of himself fighting with Arbeloa and more... every one entitled to their opinions, even over rated pseudo legends

RedSuarez · « **Reply #29 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:51:46 AM »

Will he say the same thing if miraculously we won the league next year (Not likely under Roy)? GH gave this club winners mentality and Rafa improved on that. For me its always the Istanbul. That run was against all odds and Istanbul gave us platform to become the force in Europe.

And not to mention that it made us to keep the trophy. So until Scum can Manage to win it two more times, everyone in England has to come to Liverpool to have the glimpse of CL trophy.

:-)

CHOPPER · « **Reply #30 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:51:58 AM »

I know the other one got locked and we all know how big a comp the CL is, but this lad played in both cup runs and if he feels that the treble felt better to him then so be it. He has more of an opinion on it than we do to be fair, seeing as he actually won the fuckers.

All I had to do was traipse across the UK and Europe having to get pissed and eat all that funny food singing me heart out and having a laugh.

Much simpler times then.

Cpt_Reina · « **Reply #31 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:53:24 AM »

Don't agree with Carra here. The European cup is the pinnacle of club cup football. That cup run, beating the likes of Chelsea, Juve, Milan, that Olympiacos game was much more special than the FA cup run (a cup i love) beating teams like Wycombe, Tranmere and Rotherham. Or the lesser teams we faced in the League cup. 05 was much more impressive and means a hell of a lot more.

toshi · « **Reply #32 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:54:57 AM »

El oh el... Didn't realise that carra can be so funny

Yiannis · « **Reply #33 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:56:54 AM »

Cup Treble was a great achievement but when it's compared to the win of the most important trophy in club football...

Quote from: ziggyy on December 6, 2010, 11:50:33 AM

Boss, he hasn't beaten you yet...

Haha.So true!

DanA · « **Reply #34 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:57:17 AM »

The difference:

Istanbul was a moment in football history for every football fan in the world. The tremble was just another great season for an otherwise forgettable team for most fans.

shelovesyou · « **Reply #35 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:58:25 AM »

It is more of an achievement to win 3 trophies in one season as opposed to just 1.
Thats not belittling Istanbul in any way but it just is a better ACHIEVEMENT.

Ultimate Bromance · « **Reply #36 on:** December 6, 2010, 11:59:43 AM »

Writing an angry letter to one Jamie Carragher as we speak!

scared_person · « **Reply #37 on:** December 6, 2010, 12:01:57 PM »

Quote from: Cid on December 6, 2010, 11:44:11 AM

Istanbul was magical and as a fan I can think of few other moments I have been happier..it was like a dream, the world changed for the better and for a few moments, anything was possible.

For Carra, look at this from a professional viewpoint. All the stars aligned and with a lot of red heart, a lot of luck and a boost from the fans we made it..but the treble was different. It demonstrated a consistency and a team spirit over an extended period that must have had all the players on a high..perhaps believing that we were finally rising back to where we belonged and proving again and again we were the best.

As a fan, Istanbul cannot be equaled..but if I were a player, the treble would mean far more to me.

Great thought that. Think you're probably spot on here

Grobbelrevell · « **Reply #38 on:** December 6, 2010, 12:03:13 PM »

Quote from: hide5seek on December 6, 2010, 11:18:44 AM

I don't agree with him but he has the right to his opinion.

Agreed, but I must admit that I struggle to look past this bit:

“Look at what Heskey did in the treble season, the way he made me and Danny Murphy better players..."

I would have to argue that Rafa made him twice the player he was under Houllier when he converted him to centre back full time.

CHOPPER · « **Reply #39 on:** December 6, 2010, 12:03:23 PM »

Quote from: DanA on December 6, 2010, 11:57:17 AM

The difference:

Istanbul was a moment in football history for every football fan in the world. The tremble was just another great season for an otherwise forgettable team for most fans.

Ha tremble!, the 80's was the tremble decade

Anyway, slips of the tongue aside, Impressive to see you hold that season in such disregard. I've seen us win the lot and it's up there with the best of them and if we are honest about it, that was 5 trophies in a 12 months spell, now that was! something.