Topic: Future Of David Ngog?

[hugoboss]

If we don't have anyone in the reserves ready to make the step up who has more potential than Ngog, then we should be looking to sign someone who does to be our fourth choice, ideally third choice if they are close to being good enough already.

Ngog is not good enough to be third choice striker at this club, and whilst he is just about good enough to be fourth choice, i no longer feel he has the potential to justify keeping him at the club in that role and denying a potentially better player (who we will hopefully obtain) an opportunity to be developed by the club.

 Of course, if we don't get anyone else he will have to stay, but that is not the ideal outcome this summer as i see it.

Ngog has a lot to prove as far as i'm concerned, and i'd prefer to see him do that on loan.

What did you think of Lucas two seasons ago?

[The Grinch]

If we don't have anyone in the reserves ready to make the step up who has more potential than Ngog, then we should be looking to sign someone who does to be our fourth choice, ideally third choice if they are close to being good enough already.

Ngog is not good enough to be third choice striker at this club, and whilst he is just about good enough to be fourth choice, i no longer feel he has the potential to justify keeping him at the club in that role and denying a potentially better player (who we will hopefully obtain) an opportunity to be developed by the club.

 Of course, if we don't get anyone else he will have to stay, but that is not the ideal outcome this summer as i see it.

Ngog has a lot to prove as far as i'm concerned, and i'd prefer to see him do that on loan.

We have just signed a 22 yr old Striker with plenty of potential, sadly he hasn't much in the way of European or International experience and a third of the experience of Ngog at U21 level.

The price £35m.

[Lo Pan]

I would definitely have him as more valuable to Liverpool than both Jo and Owen are to both Manc clubs.  Owen is perma-crock and Jo doesn't do it for me.  Apart from his time at CSKA he has done feck all for both City and the Bluenoses.

They are both comfortably better than Ngog.

[Lo Pan]

We have just signed a 22 yr old Striker with plenty of potential, sadly he hasn't much in the way of European or International experience and a third of the experience of Ngog at U21 level.

The price £35m.

Obviously not all young players are going to be that expensive, so i'm not exactly sure what your point is. Had we moved for Carroll 2 years ago we would have got him for a fraction of that. I believe Benitez has said that Carroll was a player he had interest in, but our financial situation at the time obviously made it difficult, hence why we missed out on the likes of Ramsay as well.

[Lo Pan]

What did you think of Lucas two seasons ago?

I thought he was a player with decent potential who would go on to be a good option for us to have. He seems to be doing that and is a useful member of the squad. I'm never unhappy to see him in the team because i know he can perform to a good standard.

I don't rate him as highly as some on here, i think he's a good player but not the world class talent that some seem to paint him as, and i do think it's possible for us to do better than him. I guess in an ideal world i would see him as a squad player as opposed to someone who starts every match as an undisputed member of our best eleven, but at the moment he's obviously well worth his regular starting birth given our options.

But this doesn't really have a lot to do with Ngog.

[The Grinch]

Obviously not all young players are going to be that expensive, so i'm not exactly sure what your point is. Had we moved for Carroll 2 years ago we would have got him for a fraction of that. I believe Benitez has said that Carroll was a player he had interest in, but our financial situation at the time obviously made it difficult, hence why we missed out on the likes of Ramsay as well.

The problem is two years ago you would of probably said all the same things about Carroll that you are currently saying about Ngog. In the last twelve months Carroll hasn't had a Fernando Torres blocking his progress and has blossomed accordingly.

If Carroll had of signed two years ago he would of had the same problems that Ngog has endured understudying probably the best number nine on the planet. Getting the odd ten or fifteen minutes here and there and the occasional start when Torres was injured.

No chance to get into a rhythm or to build up an understanding with your team mates, given those problems Ngog has still notched 16 goals from his 40 starts, a very similar goal ratio to Carroll.

[The G in Gerrard]

But this doesn't really have a lot to do with Ngog.

Neither do your posts sadly. I'd be shocked if we are deciding a lad at 21 ain't good enough. Ngog ain't like El Zhar for example or Spearing.

[Lo Pan]

Neither do your posts sadly.

Grow up.

They've been on topic.

[Lo Pan]

The problem is two years ago you would of probably said all the same things about Carroll that you are currently saying about Ngog.

That is a very big assumption to be making. I highly doubt i would have been.

[redman1974]

looks a decent player who will probably be good enough to play in the premier league,just not sure if it will be for us. needs experience,regular games. i would send him out on loan

[The G in Gerrard]

Grow up.

They've been on topic.

Like I said. Judging a 21 year old who should never have been second choice striker through no fault of his own is now being judged by those like yourself who've already decided he's not good enough. Is he worth a place in our squad? Yeah he is. Its ridiculous to assume we need to replace a 3rd or 4th choice striker and get the likes of Elmander as some have mentioned. Besides it seems like you talk about nothing bar Ngog and occasionally Kuyt.

[Lo Pan]

I'd be shocked if we are deciding a lad at 21 ain't good enough. Ngog ain't like El Zhar for example or Spearing.

You'd be shocked if we were deciding that a lad at 21 isn't good enough, but it's okay for you to imply that Spearing, who is only just over 4 months older than Ngog, isn't up to it?

[The G in Gerrard]

You'd be shocked if we were deciding that a lad at 21 isn't good enough, but it's okay for you to imply that Spearing, who is only just over 4 months older than Ngog, isn't up to it?

Spearing had an extended spell at Leicester and didn't impress but its ok for you to judge Ngog

[bigbear]

We have just signed a 22 yr old Striker with plenty of potential, sadly he hasn't much in the way of European or International experience and a third of the experience of Ngog at U21 level.

The price £35m.

Thankfully he is 3 times the player.

Ngog has never in any of his premier league starts looked a player who could dominate a defence. If he was at ManU then they would be looking to sell him on for 5-6m quid because he is not really top level. Good kid, great attitude but no better than quite good.

At Liverpool we cling to these lads as though each one is the answer when it is rarely true. If we could sell Ngog and bring in Wickham for 4-5m more then that would be progress. His future at Liverpool really should be as 4th choice but he needs so much more game time to develop as he can so he either goes out on loan or we sell him to Roy Hodgson.

[Lo Pan]

Spearing had an extended spell at Leicester and didn't impress but its ok for you to judge Ngog

You clearly are missing my point, although i don't know how. I'm not the one saying it's not okay to judge players of that age.

Of course it's okay to judge Ngog, we've all seen plenty of him, and it's also okay to hold the opinion that Spearing won't make the grade either if he hasn't impressed you.

[The G in Gerrard]

You clearly are missing my point, although i don't know how. I'm not the one saying it's not okay to judge players of that age.

Of course it's okay to judge Ngog, we've all seen plenty of him, and it's also okay to hold the opinion that Spearing won't make the grade either if he hasn't impressed you.

Mate I'm going to leave it alone now. You only like this thread. Has Ngog done something to you or family?

[The Grinch]

You'd be shocked if we were deciding that a lad at 21 isn't good enough, but it's okay for you to imply that Spearing, who is only just over 4 months older than Ngog, isn't up to it?

Given the balance of probabilities I would say the 21 yr old lad who has 46 caps for France U16-U21 was wanted by the Cameroon National side and who has made 111 appearances for a top flight Club might have more of a chance than a 22yr old player with Zero U16-21 Caps and who has made 15 appearances for a top flight side and who looked pretty average at Leicester at a lower level.

The thing is they could both be late bloomers and should both be afforded the opportunity to learn their trade and progress.

[farawayred]

Thankfully he is 3 times the player.

Ngog has never in any of his premier league starts looked a player who could dominate a defence. If he was at ManU then they would be looking to sell him on for 5-6m quid because he is not really top level. Good kid, great attitude but no better than quite good.

At Liverpool we cling to these lads as though each one is the answer when it is rarely true. If we could sell Ngog and bring in Wickham for 4-5m more then that would be progress. His future at Liverpool really should be as 4th choice but he needs so much more game time to develop as he can so he either goes out on loan or we sell him to Roy Hodgson.

That's a nail-on-head description. And I agree 100% with the rest. But what I'm resisting at this moment is the idea of pouring money into our striking options when we know that (1) we will spend the money we generate (not only from sales but it's a zero-sum game) and (2) we'd be pouring money in our 4th choice striker option. I'd rather see 4-5m going for upgrades elsewhere. I'd be happy if we can spend more, but that's not what FSG are indicating.

[Lo Pan]

Thankfully he is 3 times the player.

Ngog has never in any of his premier league starts looked a player who could dominate a defence. If he was at ManU then they would be looking to sell him on for 5-6m quid because he is not really top level. Good kid, great attitude but no better than quite good.

At Liverpool we cling to these lads as though each one is the answer when it is rarely true. If we could sell Ngog and bring in Wickham for 4-5m more then that would be progress. His future at Liverpool really should be as 4th choice but he needs so much more game time to develop as he can so he either goes out on loan or we sell him to Roy Hodgson.

Spot on.

[The G in Gerrard]

Thankfully he is 3 times the player.

Ngog has never in any of his premier league starts looked a player who could dominate a defence. If he was at ManU then they would be looking to sell him on for 5-6m quid because he is not really top level. Good kid, great attitude but no better than quite good.

At Liverpool we cling to these lads as though each one is the answer when it is rarely true. If we could sell Ngog and bring in Wickham for 4-5m more then that would be progress. His future at Liverpool really should be as 4th choice but he needs so much more game time to develop as he can so he either goes out on loan or we sell him to Roy Hodgson.

Welbeck hadn't done much before he was at Sunderland this season had he? Gibson neither so your claim that the Mancs would have sold isn't true imo. Nor would the Mancs have expected either of the above to play so many games especially in a lone role.

[social]

He's scored some good goals and always looks like he could when he's on the pitch, but just doesn't do it often enough.

Oh, we're talking about Ngog?  I thought this thread was about every striker we've had.  We've run some high-priced strikers out of here on similar charges, mind you.

I don't have enough fingers (or toes) to count the number of trophies we've won with strikers in the squad that are worse than Ngog.  We've won trophies with worse strikers on the pitch... playing as the lone striker.

[Cpt_Reina]

Thankfully he is 3 times the player.

Ngog has never in any of his premier league starts looked a player who could dominate a defence. If he was at ManU then they would be looking to sell him on for 5-6m quid because he is not really top level. Good kid, great attitude but no better than quite good.

At Liverpool we cling to these lads as though each one is the answer when it is rarely true. If we could sell Ngog and bring in Wickham for 4-5m more then that would be progress. His future at Liverpool really should be as 4th choice but he needs so much more game time to develop as he can so he either goes out on loan or we sell him to Roy Hodgson.

A pretty succinct summation as has been said.

But ive not seen anyone claim he is the answer. Most of the people defending him believe that as a 4th choice we'd struggle to find much better, which I think is fair.

[Lo Pan]

Mate I'm going to leave it alone now. You only like this thread. Has Ngog done something to you or family?

I think it's best you do that, you're clearly not up to discourse with adults.

[Cadno]

Thankfully he is 3 times the player.
Ngog has never in any of his premier league starts looked a player who could dominate a defence. If he was at ManU then they would be looking to sell him on for 5-6m quid because he is not really top level. Good kid, great attitude but no better than quite good.

At Liverpool we cling to these lads as though each one is the answer when it is rarely true. If we could sell Ngog and bring in Wickham for 4-5m more then that would be progress. His future at Liverpool really should be as 4th choice but he needs so much more game time to develop as he can so he either goes out on loan or we sell him to Roy Hodgson.

Its a little early to be saying that.  Carrol has had half a season in the PL playing out of his skin for his home town club.  We do not know yet whether he will conttinue his progression or stagnate without the drive of playing for his local side.  Carroll is a massive gamble one which has potential for great reward.  Ngog at 3rd/4th striker is little risk and if he toughens up and continues to score goals for us could save us some money untill some of the youngdters come though

[The G in Gerrard]

I think it's best you do that, you're clearly not up to discourse with adults.

Wow. You're great you. There's not many 4th choice strikers at other clubs in this league you'd prefer is there?

[bigbear]

Welbeck hadn't done much before he was at Sunderland this season had he? Gibson neither so your claim that the Mancs would have sold isn't true imo. Nor would the Mancs have expected either of the above to play so many games especially in a lone role.

Welbeck is 2 years younger than him and looked livelier in that good spell he had pre-Christmas than Ngog has done really. I think he will have a better career than Ngog.

Ngog has probably had more responsiblity put upon him than most young players but you would have thought that being the case it would have developed more at nearly 22. He just doesn't look a threat really.

[bigbear]

A pretty succinct summation as has been said.

But ive not seen anyone claim he is the answer. Most of the people defending him believe that as a 4th choice we'd struggle to find much better, which I think is fair.

But will he stay as 4th striker. Is that going to allow him to develop ?

I'd be delighted if he did but I just can't see him wanting that and I can't see him being any more than that for us.

[The G in Gerrard]

Welbeck is 2 years younger than him and looked livelier in that good spell he had pre-Christmas than Ngog has done really. I think he will have a better career than Ngog.

Ngog has probably had more responsiblity put upon him than most young players but you would have thought that being the case it would have developed more at nearly 22. He just doesn't look a threat really.

12 month difference but thats neither here nor there. Gibson has done fack all of note, Fletcher hadn't either. Chelsea don't seem to have many players after the first team that they can call on. I think many are being too harsh on Ngog. Perhaps a loan move is best to get him more game time but to sell him and then replace him with another youngster seems a pointless task to me, there's more pressing concerns imo with the squad.

[The Grinch]

Thankfully he is 3 times the player.

I hope you are right mate but the point I was making was that the players with more potential than Ngog generally cost a hell of a lot of money.

Ngog has never in any of his premier league starts looked a player who could dominate a defence. If he was at ManU then they would be looking to sell him on for 5-6m quid because he is not really top level. Good kid, great attitude but no better than quite good.

That is exactly what I said last night even using Frazier Campbell as an example, let Ngog go out on loan and learn his trade, get a bit of aggression and confidence in his game and see where it takes him.

At Liverpool we cling to these lads as though each one is the answer when it is rarely true. If we could sell Ngog and bring in Wickham for 4-5m more then that would be progress. His future at Liverpool really should be as 4th choice but he needs so much more game time to develop as he can so he either goes out on loan or we sell him to Roy Hodgson.

That's spot on for me, using the Frazier Campbell example again United flogged Campbell for £6m after they gave him the chance to prove he wasn't a World beater and then added £2m to the pot and brought in Hernandez.

I just don't think we should write the lad off without giving him the opportunity to play week in week out at a slightly lower level.

[Adeemo]

One thing I would say is that whenever we've played good attacking football(usually at home) with him in the side, he's played well and usually scored. Recently when he's played he's been unlucky that the team has not performed and he's not really had any goalscoring chances. If he starts on Thursday and all our big guns are back in the team, he'll look a completely different player to the one who was so isolated in our last outing.

[Tomo!]

Totally different striker to Carroll, in fact Andy is unique in his size/build not just for his age but for someone 5 - 10 years older than him.
The lads fucking massive, he can bully defences he could bully most blokes looking at him.

The fact is we don't need to sell David, he's done a job for part of the season. We've now reinforced the striking department, we can afford the lad a little time to develop.

His lack of strength seems to let him down but you can tell by looking at him he's not yet got to fill out into his 'bloke' body, unlike Carroll who looks like he started shaving when he was 10.

And as for United even they get it wrong at times, you can't tell me they weren't kicking themselves watching Spurs trying to jizz 20 plus million over Rossi who they let go for 6 million?

[Cpt_Reina]

But will he stay as 4th striker. Is that going to allow him to develop ?

I'd be delighted if he did but I just can't see him wanting that and I can't see him being any more than that for us.

If the time comes when he says he's no longer willing to fulfil that role or he stagnates than I'd be happy to cash in. But as things stand neither is true. So im happy for him to remain.

[Cadno]

But will he stay as 4th striker. Is that going to allow him to develop ?

I'd be delighted if he did but I just can't see him wanting that and I can't see him being any more than that for us.

Then its up to him to prove otherwise. If he does then great we have a commited player with the desire to improve if not then we sell him for what will almost certainly be a profit and look for the next youngster with potential for the 3/4th striker role. 

What I dont get is the people on here who are going on and on about how "he will never be good enough" etc etc when it is Febuary, Ngog is going to be here for at least the rest of season why not save it for the transfer window? and in the meantime get behind the lad and hope he will get a run of form as opposed to seemingly wanting him to fail to prove a point.

[bigbear]

One thing I would say is that whenever we've played good attacking football(usually at home) with him in the side, he's played well and usually scored. Recently when he's played he's been unlucky that the team has not performed and he's not really had any goalscoring chances. If he starts on Thursday and all our big guns are back in the team, he'll look a completely different player to the one who was so isolated in our last outing.

I think that is fair. It's not easy playing up front on your own when your supply line is so lacking which it generally is in these UEFA games.

I do agree with AL555 though, loan him out or sell him. We need to see what he can do at a slightly lower standard and if he can build his reputation at a side that creates chances but lacks someone to lead the line.

Then if he does the business make a call and take an offer if necessary and use it to improve us. Campbell and Hernandez is a perfect example. Of course it can go the other way and you sell Guiseppe Rossi or GerardPique but you have to make a call !

[bigbear]

Then its up to him to prove otherwise. If he does then great we have a commited player with the desire to improve if not then we sell him for what will almost certainly be a profit and look for the next youngster with potential for the 3/4th striker role. 

What I dont get is the people on here who are going on and on about how "he will never be good enough" etc etc when it is Febuary, Ngog is going to be here for at least the rest of season why not save it for the transfer window? and in the meantime get behind the lad and hope he will get a run of form as opposed to seemingly wanting him to fail to prove a point.

I think we all get behind him at the game don't we, it's just chatting and opinion isn't it when we discuss a player's future and that has gone on forever and a day.

[Cadno]

I think we all get behind him at the game don't we, it's just chatting and opinion isn't it when we discuss a player's future and that has gone on forever and a day.

To be fair didnt really mean you more of the Annie type posters who seem to have a personal crusade to tell us all repeatedly how shit Ngog is and how he will never be good enough without any debate or alternative choices.

[Kage]

Ngog is a decent player, with room to improve. He has a number of qualities and to say he is shite is just wrong. That said, he is probably not going to be good enough to be a regular here.

[Fordy]

Ngog is a decent player, with room to improve. He has a number of qualities and to say he is shite is just wrong. That said, he is probably not going to be good enough to be a regular here.

So they is no point keeping him then. Might as well loan the lad out. Dont you think?

[Adeemo]

So they is no point keeping him then. Might as well loan the lad out. Dont you think?

Not with the size of our squad currently.

[Fordy]

Not with the size of our squad currently.

Well I dont mean now I mean from the summer.