Topic: Why we should keep Lucas?

[carling]

Oh, well then he must've been playing well then. My mistake.

I think the truth is somewhere in between, around that time there didn't seem to be many who wanted to see him in the team, even as a sub.  Most of the people I spoke to thought he was quite a while away from being ready for first-team action.

Hell that was even before the Lucas fanatics club started on RAWK.

For the record some of the stick he got that season was a disgrace.  More at Anfield than away from home from my experience. I heard a lot of lads get put in their place that year, even I told a few to behave themselves.

[AnnieRoad(Un)Faithful]

You really do just read what you want dont you?

I was refering to the one or two games where he was (wrongly) booed.

You're a lost cause, im tapping out.

Just consider that we've lost two world class midfielders and replaced them with much lesser players.

[JackWard33]

I see people are still queueing up to admit they don't understand football.
I particularly liked the bloke who compared our AM Gerrard and DM Lucas based purely on goals and assists.
Blind. Find another sport lads.

this is quality and made me laugh - couldn't agree more Lucas is like an acid test if you don't think he's a player it's basically like tattooing 'I don't get football' on your forehead

[Tooky]

Oh, well then he must've been playing well then. My mistake.

 
 In fairness mate I have seen lucas have a few bad games..but every player has those..mostly I see a young player whose dedicated, disciplined, willing and capable rarely injured and most importantly a guy who as you say gets booed a lot didnt throw his rattle out of the pram but put his head down learned, worked and achieved....didn't snipe off and put a sneaky transfer request in did he ?

[Scarlet`]

He shops at Tesco 

[deadlybuzz]

Just consider that we've lost two world class midfielders and replaced them with much lesser players.

If you're implying Lucas into this reason, we haven't replaced them with Lucas. He was always here to fill in a void. He's improved a lot over the years and of course he isn't at the levels of Alonso and Mascherano, but if he had the opportunity to play alongside someone of their caliber once again whilst he continues to further improve, I believe he'd soon be considered as one of those caliber players too.

The way he's held our midfield together whether it's been with Poulsen, Meireles, Gerrard or Spearing this year shows he's been the better player in all or most of those games, I don't think buying in a superstar to play alongside Lucas will make him look suddenly shit, if he plays alongside someone better, he will continue to get better.

[Sangria]

If you're implying Lucas into this reason, we haven't replaced them with Lucas. He was always here to fill in a void. He's improved a lot over the years and of course he isn't at the levels of Alonso and Mascherano, but if he had the opportunity to play alongside someone of their caliber once again whilst he continues to further improve, I believe he'd soon be considered as one of those caliber players too.

The way he's held our midfield together whether it's been with Poulsen, Meireles, Gerrard or Spearing this year shows he's been the better player in all or most of those games, I don't think buying in a superstar to play alongside Lucas will make him look suddenly shit, if he plays alongside someone better, he will continue to get better.

The sooner the likes of Lucas are binned and replaced with superstars of the level of Torres, the better it will be. "The armband proved he was a red..." "Lucas you're fucking shite..."

[JohnHobbes]

 
 In fairness mate I have seen lucas have a few bad games..but every player has those..mostly I see a young player whose dedicated, disciplined, willing and capable rarely injured and most importantly a guy who as you say gets booed a lot didnt throw his rattle out of the pram but put his head down learned, worked and achieved....didn't snipe off and put a sneaky transfer request in did he ?

Everyone has bad games even the truly world greats, e.g. Messi and Zidane. It's what you do and your attitude in training afterwards and in the next game that proves your calibre.

[thegoodfella]

The sooner the likes of Lucas are binned and replaced with superstars of the level of Torres, the better it will be. "The armband proved he was a red..." "Lucas you're fucking shite..."

Bitter much?

[deadlybuzz]

The sooner the likes of Lucas are binned and replaced with superstars of the level of Torres, the better it will be. "The armband proved he was a red..." "Lucas you're fucking shite..."

[Sangria]

Bitter much?

I'm not bitter at Torres wanting to go. I'm bitter at those who idolised Torres whilst shouting down Lucas as shite and not Liverpool quality. While I like good players, I like even more those who show an exemplary attitude despite encountering difficulties. For me, unless Lucas does something like grant an interview for the Scum, he has always been and will always be a better role model than Torres.

[jDJ]

After the way Lucas has played for the last 18 months I'm amazed there's even a debate anymore.  Understands how to play as a central midfielder in a 4-2-3-1 better than anyone else currently on our books and people want to fck him off?  Christ.

It makes me laugh, people watch us play well with Lucas in central midfield then watch us play shit with Gerrard in central midfield time and again and still don't make the connection.

[Sangria]

After the way Lucas has played for the last 18 months I'm amazed there's even a debate anymore.  Understands how to play as a central midfielder in a 4-2-3-1 better than anyone else currently on our books and people want to fck him off?  Christ.

It makes me laugh, people watch us play well with Lucas in central midfield then watch us play shit with Gerrard in central midfield time and again and still don't make the connection.

To quote some of his critics in their attempt at being sarcastic, I'm sure Chelsea's midfield will be quaking at the prospect of facing Lucas. Of course, if you look at actual performances, they probably would, more than any other current Liverpool CM.

[jDJ]

To quote some of his critics in their attempt at being sarcastic, I'm sure Chelsea's midfield will be quaking at the prospect of facing Lucas. Of course, if you look at actual performances, they probably would, more than any other current Liverpool CM.

One of my favourite Lucas performances came against Chelsea actually, it was in the 4 - 4 at Stamford Bridge in the European cup quarter a few seasons ago.  Gerrard was out so he played off Torres.  Probably the best player on the pitch.  22 year old playing out of position is the man of the match in a European cup quarter final against the team who were favourites to win it - From memory that's one game he avoided a booing.

[Zack]

The biggest reason IMO why so many people still give Lucas crap is because the team is under performing. They justify he plays well for a mid label team and that's bull. I believe he really step up his game comparing too years ago and without him we would be in a much more dangerous position.

[leivapool]

One of my favourite Lucas performances came against Chelsea actually, it was in the 4 - 4 at Stamford Bridge in the European cup quarter a few seasons ago.  Gerrard was out so he played off Torres.  Probably the best player on the pitch.  22 year old playing out of position is the man of the match in a European cup quarter final against the team who were favourites to win it - From memory that's one game he avoided a booing.

Anyone know here I can watch this, apart from the highlights on LFCtv.  Lucas playing off Torres sounds interesting!

[Hazell]

In relation to the Torres saga, and why fans allow themselves to get attached to individuals, it'll never stop happening because of the nature of our support. In respect of that, Lucas, Kuyt and Reina remain on the pedestal until they decide to 'do one'.

[Cpt_Reina]

In relation to the Torres saga, and why fans allow themselves to get attached to individuals, it'll never stop happening because of the nature of our support. In respect of that, Lucas, Kuyt and Reina remain on the pedestal until they decide to 'do one'.

Those 3 are class acts. Regardless of the fact we though Torres was to blah blah blah. Those 3 players show the dignity, class, enthusiasm, desire and connection with what the club stands for so well and i love them for it, see also Dagger, in the face of being pushed out of the club and whored around europe at Roys demand he put his foot down and said no way, he wanted to be here, to out last the geriatric who couldnt comprehend how a defender could actually play football and not just hoof. Much in the same way as Lucas has given a giant fuck you to all of the boo boys with his form over the last 18 months, and how Kuyt has defied his critics by constantly contributing important goals and important performances.

These are the kind of players I want at LFC.

[mulhergremista]

I haven't said that Lucas is "utter garbage" at the moment. I said he was for the first couple of seasons - which he blatantly was.

Get your 'facts' straight please.

You are entitled o your ofpinion about Lucas football performances. Nevertheless you are not entitled to use the words that you used, there are more educaing ways to express your opinion without calling a decent human being "Utter garbage"  Those words should be saved for serial killers, rapists  and similar human trash.

Anyhow, to use ur own words , this "garbage' became a good ferilizer for the team, very useful

As Lucas would have written "Thank you, have a nice day"  (That is how he answeres his abusers)

[GrkStav]

You are entitled o your ofpinion about Lucas football performances. Nevertheless you are not entitled to use the words that you used, there are more educaing ways to express your opinion without calling a decent human being "Utter garbage"  Those words should be saved for serial killers, rapists  and similar human trash.

Anyhow, to use ur own words , this "garbage' became a good ferilizer for the team, very useful

As Lucas would have written "Thank you, have a nice day"  (That is how he answeres his abusers)

It's apparently fashionable to use terms like "utter garbage" and "not good enough" all the time with regard to players. And to respond to people who disagree about your characterization by exclaiming "Rubbish!".

[1021]

Hazell, Cpt. Reina, mulhergremista, GrkStav, the last four posts. Absolutely spot on.

Lucas is an absolute class act on and off the pitch. We should be nailing him down on a long contract because he is a very, very important player for us now, and in the years to come.

[mulhergremista]

Just consider that we've lost two world class midfielders and replaced them with much lesser players.

You always forget one importan factor

They both wanted to leave
AS TO Lucas, he could do much better if not for Carra's hoofing . IMHO.  Try to put yoursef in his place, he is trying to play his game, which was a game of pass and move, but some fellow players never pass to him.  It was living hell, many in his place would have quitted.  He never omplained and insisted to learn more and improve.  I think the games he played with the reserves helped him, as well as the pre-seasons games when he scored some goals and has a good colaboration with Benayoun and Pacheco. 

His way was full of obstacles, and he did walk almost alone in the beginning, but he did it, and I suppose he deserves at least polite words while critisizing him about his footbll.
I respect everyone, but you have to give respect in order to get it from  your fellow posters

[leivapool]

Just consider that we've lost two world class midfielders and replaced them with much lesser players.

See, thats a very subjective statement and you say it as if it is factually based.  Arguably Lucas is a better 'player' than Mascherano.  Not a better DM No, but a better player.  Has much more to his game.  Can play DM, CM, or CAM.  Obviously he hasn't done CM or CAM much whilst at Liverpool, but he can, he has.  Has Masch?  No, he's a one trick pony, he's good at what he does, but what he does is limited.

As mentioned above, Lucas has played as the support for Torres, and played well, albeit only once.  But he did it.  Has Masch?  Lucas has far more flexibility to his game, and is able to play in many more positions well.  That makes him a better player than Masch.

Read this carefully before you jump on me that Masch is better than Lucas.  .  I'm not saying Lucas is a better Defensive Midfielder, he obviously isn't, but Lucas is a better all-round player.

[liversaint]

If you're implying Lucas into this reason, we haven't replaced them with Lucas. He was always here to fill in a void. He's improved a lot over the years and of course he isn't at the levels of Alonso and Mascherano, but if he had the opportunity to play alongside someone of their caliber once again whilst he continues to further improve, I believe he'd soon be considered as one of those caliber players too.

The way he's held our midfield together whether it's been with Poulsen, Meireles, Gerrard or Spearing this year shows he's been the better player in all or most of those games, I don't think buying in a superstar to play alongside Lucas will make him look suddenly shit, if he plays alongside someone better, he will continue to get better.

Addthis to his humility, eagerness to work for the team, rapid improvement since Masch left, and you have some one who should be an integral part of the team for years

[jkred]

I actually just had someone - a liverpool 'fan' - claim that lucas was the worst hes seen in a red shirt. i fucking despair. never mind the whole debate about OOT'ers ruining atmosphere n all that...an acid test for whether your worthy of getting in should be to ask opinions on lucas! Anything more derogatory than this should be banned! 'i dont think hes a patch on alonso but i get some of his qualities i just dont think they stretch far enough - im cheering the bastard on though in the hope that im proved wrong.'

The most shocking thing is that the guy giving his opinion is the father of a really talented young player - i might have to let him know his sons biggest obstacle to success is him!

[jkred]

rant done

[MonTheKuyt]

So many people seem to be replacing Lucas with Adam in their "Post 23:00 31/1/11" fantasy teams.
I'm sorry but I can't see this, surely Adam would be cover for Meireles or Lucas?
 

[The 5th Benitle]

So many people seem to be replacing Lucas with Adam in their "Post 23:00 31/1/11" fantasy teams.
I'm sorry but I can't see this, surely Adam would be cover for Meireles or Lucas?

Well said. Lucas will play even if we get Adam, with Poulsen as his cover. A midfield of Gerrard, Meireles and Adam would be bonkers.
You could of course play all 4 if Gerrard played on the right

[Euskadi]

A player who has been overlooked by many and only now have some people come round to the idea that he is actually more than just a bit part player. He has never once shown a glimpse of wanting to leave the club and has wanted to fight for his place no matter what. This is the type of player we need, a fighter and I am proud to have him in the side.

[Raul!]

Appreciate this man.

That is all.

[bahrainexpat]

A player who has been overlooked by many and only now have some people come round to the idea that he is actually more than just a bit part player. He has never once shown a glimpse of wanting to leave the club and has wanted to fight for his place no matter what. This is the type of player we need, a fighter and I am proud to have him in the side.

This

[Komic]

Why didn't he close down Andy Carroll?

[Sangria]

Why didn't he close down Andy Carroll?

Because the transfer window is still open.

[steveeastend]

What a breath... the Lucas thread still alive...

[GrkStav]

Why didn't he close down Andy Carroll?

To spite the likes of you! AS IF this hasn't been debated to death already! Groundhog day!

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

Just consider that we've lost two world class midfielders and replaced them with much lesser players.

well what does that make busquets???
he isnt world class.

also see some teams are working out how to get through the madrid midfield of late.

alonso had great passing that alone does not make him world class

[Sangria]

well what does that make busquets???
he isnt world class.

also see some teams are working out how to get through the madrid midfield of late.

Any resemblance to my glue and energy theory?

[BIGdavalad]

Why didn't he close down Andy Carroll?

He was on a fucking helicopter!

[spinaltapped]

I have some quick comments because I deserve some time to voice my opinion after reading through 9 pages of that bullshit.

Lucas isn't the best player in the world. Lucas is not the worst player in the world. Lucas as of right now, has been our most consistent and best option as a deep defensive CM. These are facts. He is not the best offensive CM on the team, but he's more than capable and I would say he is much more so than Masch.

On that note, I wish people would stop comparing all of our past players. That's fine if you want to compare him to three of our best CMs in LFC history, but it's a bad argument. Just because your entire team isn't the best FILL IN THE POSITION in the world, doesn't mean that they are not fucking useful if not integral. We could have a team made up of the best players in the world in every position, but without chemistry and tactics, it's meaningless. Comparing Lucas to our two past CMs who were in their prime, were different players (more specialists than Lucas' role), and were surrounded by better players is utter shit.

I saw some of you bust out the "but he isn't able to pick the team up and get wins for us" argument. Yeah. You're right. Neither did anyone else on the team. Did you see our record pre-Kenny?! The fact of the matter is that the times of old where few players can carry a team to a cup are over. You need a team of players who can and will work together and are willing to work themselves to the bone for the benefit of the other teammates. This is what Lucas does. He will NEVER get a lot of credit for it, but he works damn hard to make his team look good and play better.

I want to point the attention to Busquets for a moment. Great player, great movement, great defending. But I would reckon he would look a lot worse if he wasn't surrounded by the current Barca-fucking-lona who is possibly one of the greatest teams of all time. Lucas for Liverpool and Lucas for Brazil is night and day. Those who claim that him being on the Brazilian team have obviously not seen the games that he has been playing. He is one of the best players on the pitch EVERY GAME and is clearly the heart beat of the team. He's brilliant. But he's the same player that he is for us. He's not particularly fast, he's not a world beater offensively, he's not the best tackler in the world (although I would argue that he is GREATLY underrated as a defender), and he's not launching balls from half into the net. But he is incredible to watch. And as Liverpool has begun moving towards pass and move tactics, and we have begun moving towards what is now identified as a modern Brazilian play style, I have seen moments in which Lucas has began showing what he has been showing for the national team for a few years now.

Again, he's not particularly great at anything, but his work rate and smarts minimize any disadvantages that would bring and he ups the play of his teammates. He fills a role in that sense that is similar to Busquets. Busquets is a great player and I think a better player than Lucas right now, but he's not the best on the team at anything. But it's important to note that he is one of the most important parts of the team. And it's important to note how rare that necessary ability and selflessness is in the modern player and how hard to replace he is. And it's important to note who his back-up is. A player with more obvious strengths, but isn't as effective as a part of the team.

For those who think Lucas is "not good enough for LFC" (which I guess means that LFC has for the last 118 years been stocked to the brim with world class players and only world class players), I say yes. Yes, he is not good enough for your idealized LFC where every player is here for life and everyone is crawling to get here through broken glass. But that's not reality. Reality is that we're not that club anymore. The reality is that the game doesn't work like that anymore. Lucas is what is now. A player who is here. A player who is happy to be here. A player that makes others happy to be here. A player that should be applauded for not only wearing the red shirt, but for wearing it with pride and for working as hard as he can for as long as he wears it. If you want to get rid of him, I'm fine with that. But you better have a player with more promise and is as hard working as Lucas, and good fucking luck with that.

My last part of this tirade is at one point one of the detractors used Lucas being booed as evidence that he wasn't good enough. That made me sick. Hearing that booing during one of the games last season was the point that I felt most sick being a fan of our club. I would NEVER boo a player on our team as long as he was giving it his all. NEVER. That is DESPICABLE. Fuck those "fans" that did so. Go with Fernando and join the glory chasers at Chelsea if you want to be the type of fan that boos one of your own players. Shame on those "fans". They should be fucking disgraced at their behavior, not made an example of. Completely classless.

That's it. Thank you for reading all of this if you did.

[leivapool]

^^^^^
This, really well articulated.