Author Topic: Why we should keep Lucas?  (Read 114487 times)

Offline IanMac

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #920 on: January 9, 2011, 11:10:15 PM »
That´s true. He needs a rest. Maybe the Blackpool game is off anyway because of the snow?
No chance of that. For me, the next 2 games are Lucas' and our most important of the season.

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #921 on: January 9, 2011, 11:11:19 PM »
Lucas worked his socks off today and it didn't help he and Raul had to hold the midfield when Gerrard got sent off. Our game plan went out the window once the Howard Webb show started at the start of the match.

This is what we do. And we do it very well. Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bM8gOyjeuc

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #922 on: January 9, 2011, 11:13:25 PM »
  I sent him some pieces of my mind, now I am expecting his "pearls" in return
What is your twitter name?

Offline woof

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #923 on: January 9, 2011, 11:14:46 PM »
Oh how much Lucas has "grown up" since Alonso left and that's because of the chances that were afforded to him. It shows that we need to be patient with youngsters. Just because they made some silly mistakes in the past, it doesn't mean they'll make them again. Lucas has been solid this season. He's always waiting for the right moment to release the ball. All he needs is confidence when it comes to scoring goals

Offline gjglen

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #924 on: January 9, 2011, 11:17:33 PM »
Good performance today, and on his 24th birthday as well  :D.

Offline mulhergremista

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #925 on: January 9, 2011, 11:34:32 PM »

He was fucking solid today. For large stretches of the match, he was practically the only CM we had out there. Worked his socks off, kept recycling the ball, never panicked, and hardly gave the ball away all match.

Considering he was partnered with Raul (poor game, poor decisions), Gerrard (red card), and Shelvey (rookie), the fact that United's midfield didn't walk all over us was down mostly to him.

Spot on

About the poor tackling, it was blessing in disguise

Can you imagine how would this ref reacted for aosome tackle provoking one of those twats dive??  Did you want another red card.  He was more cautious which was a good thing in these circumstances

For me anyhow man of the match Reina, what a piece of goalkeeping today

Almost all our field players played well, more or less. KENNI DID NOT RESPECT SACRED COWS, HE SUBBED WHAT HE FOUND RIGHT

If we return to Lucas, Kenny did not sub him, it was a voe of confidence to let him be responsible almos single headed to the midfield.  He had to run for 2, or even for 3 if ou count Gerrard.  It is a pity he got tired in the last minutes, he gave Jonjon the free kick. Jonjon is a good player but has not yet the feeling to slide it in, he kicked too strong.  He will learn, I do not critisize him,  I just had the feling that Lucas could roll it in , he has done it in Liverpool against PSV, meanly put the ball on babel's head, it was a goal/

I  hope he will develope more under Kenni.  TORRES is the one who need mental help, so sad see him like that. 
Maxi should stay in the training complex after hours together with Lucas maybe and practice finalizations.  Maxi has it, he scores some beautiful goals, this is what Liverpool needs, Goals,  and ease the pressure on Torres
Aurelio made a nice FK, unfortunately the Pole got it

Sorry for the off topic,  so I finish this post in a rmark.
SOme people in the xtratime forum waned to botehr me o wrote, something like this "I am sure Kenny will not play him, he knows better" or something else with that meaning
Afterwards they said it was because of Sammi Lee.  I did not answer to that.   I have no idea myself, I suppose he will be played, at least untill Gerard return,  maye he will try Poulsen.. He is the coach and is in his right to choose, some rest could do Lucas some good.  We have many games, including Europa league, and not so deep squad

Offline Sangria

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #926 on: January 9, 2011, 11:54:19 PM »
If we return to Lucas, Kenny did not sub him, it was a voe of confidence to let him be responsible almos single headed to the midfield.

In my earlier posts, I've compared Lucas as a player type to a Liverpool great, Ronnie Whelan. The new manager is the bloke who used Whelan in the role I saw Lucas in. Whelan was better all-round, most notably in confidence, but he was also older and more experienced by the time Dalglish used him in CM, so Lucas has time on his side.

In the 87-88 season, which is commonly regarded as the best pure footballing side Liverpool has ever produced, and comparable to any other great team in football history, Liverpool used 4 specialist CMs. The 1st choice pairing was Whelan and Steve McMahon, a tough tackler of the old school with a fearsome shot. Behind them were Jan Molby, a passer the equal of Alonso at his peak, and Nigel Spackman, a specialist DM who wasn't exactly the most fluent of passers, but who was unfazed by physical opponents, and who knew his limits. Of those 2, perhaps due to injuries and lack of fitness, Molby played fewer games than Spackman, who was definitely inferior to Lucas in all respects. Based on this, I think Dalglish will appreciate Lucas.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline mulhergremista

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #927 on: January 10, 2011, 12:28:23 AM »
Fletcher getting carded and then being subbed for Anderson had me out my seat. The midfield opened up when that overpriced idiot Anderson came on, immediately got booked, and started gifting us possession.

Eighteen fucking million they paid for Anderson; when he burst into our area with his Denilson at the airport impression, I shat my pants laughing. Can you imagine Lucas doing that? Leiva's coolness personified - his positioning, control and footballing brain are Brazilian, not his silly Predator swagger.

Well, you are harsh on Anderson.  He grew in the streets, football saved him from being one of the best drug deales in Brazil, as he said once.   After the famouse goal who brought Gremio back from relegation, he left very quickly, at 17, to Porto, where he shone, really, until he had terrible injury.

you can not compare a street boy like this to Lucas Leiva, upper middle class , decent upbringing, good education, most of the Brasilian footballers did not have these conditions, maybe only Kaka and some few others.  Anderson became the best firend of Cristiano Ronaldo who took him to nightclubs ad rich life.  Not the best influence for a kid like that.  Lucas had a tradition of football in his family, when he was born they had the plane for him, to triumf, in Tennis and than in football. He played in indoor football schools and than he was sent to Some boarding school for young talents in the Interior of Sao Paulo, a kid goes out of his home and rides a bus alone for 8 hours.  He did well in the boarding school, but at 14 he asked his parents to return him home, he was offered a place in the base categories of SP no leess, but he did not want to play there.  He played htan in the local team of his hometown, Dourados, where Gremio youth team came once to play, they were very much impressed by him and he was invited to Porto Alegre, pass the tests and again left home at 15, to live in the Gremio youth Academy.  He  was so lonsome at first that he asked his parents to come and take him home. They came, stayed 4-5 days and persuaded him to continue. Soon he was he captain of all the youth categories he played it,  and also played in all the base caegories of Brazil NT.
He had this privilage  Anderson fought for survival,  in the streets, and took also care of his mother.  His friends were some thieves adn drug dealers..  He had an ambition to be something else. He choose football, he lived not far from the Gremio stadium.  When he was 15 he negotiated his contract with the Gremio management. at 17, he did it with Porto.  While Lucas, the kid of the light, left it to his agent..Anderson was more admired in Gremio, they called him "andershow" He really went out early, because of the money, he himself admitted.  He bought himself a penthouse that looked to the Olimpico Gremio Stadium, a Ferrary.. He was still a minor.. but if you grow up in such an environment, he was born adult.  He actually permitted himself to be a kid after he had the money to buy all this. 

While Lucas mastered his English soon enought, Anderson befriended CR and Nani and soon spoke Portuguese in Portugues accent (Not Brasilian)  On the pitch he was reckless, did not respect any senior players, remember how he confronted Gerrard in a game?? in Lucas and Anderson first year.
Lucas was a late bloomer if you compare him to Anderson, but today Lucas is much more appreciated, as Anderson suffered f some bad injuries . Nevertheless, Ferguson rates his courage,  street wisdom, he gave him a very good new contract for  another 5 years, while our Lucas is still awaiting

As for his price, it was because Lucas came directly from Gremio while Anderson has been in Porto and has some good CL experience until the terrible injury. Also as i said Anderson is a shrewd negotiator.  Inspite of all his shortcomings, I like him, I think he will mature and be a good player. He is only 22.

Today in the game I wanted Anderson in our side, he knows how to advance to score, he almost scored a goal in the same way as he did in tha famous game of Gremio, but Kelly did not let him.

BTW, unlike Anderson, when lucas was advanced to the first team by Mano he did not buy penthouse and Ferrary or Armany clothes/  He bought some cattle  to the family ranch..and an apartment where he lived shortly after with Ariane , now his wife. A solid eficient BMW was for him..gray or dark blue, not red..
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 12:37:11 AM by mulhergremista »

Offline dalarr

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #928 on: January 10, 2011, 12:26:13 PM »
same I signed up on twitter to have a go at some idiots giving him abuse, twats.
Sorry if off-topic..but as I said, I signed up for Twitter to give him my support. How do I know if he recieves my Tweets? I always write "@LucasLeiva87 blablabla"..do they show up on his profile then? I'm sorry, but I'm new to this Twitter thing and I couldn't find a thread about it.


Offline deadlybuzz

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #929 on: January 10, 2011, 03:08:30 PM »
Sorry if off-topic..but as I said, I signed up for Twitter to give him my support. How do I know if he recieves my Tweets? I always write "@LucasLeiva87 blablabla"..do they show up on his profile then? I'm sorry, but I'm new to this Twitter thing and I couldn't find a thread about it.

He will get your message - he has to check his mentions options in order to see any messages <- you can as well if you search his username.


Well, you are harsh on Anderson.  He grew in the streets, football saved him from being one of the best drug deales in Brazil, as he said once.   After the famouse goal who brought Gremio back from relegation, he left very quickly, at 17, to Porto, where he shone, really, until he had terrible injury.......

Interesting about Anderson, although mulhergremista I think El Camp was going on about the high price United actually paid Porto for Anderson to change his game when he is/was known for being an attack-minded midfielder, not essentially his personality! He's scored only 2 goals in his entire career for United so far....and if Liverpool paid £18m for Lucas to have only scored 2 goals in 3 years, you would know the media would be going on about it negatively.

It's one of those things that makes you wonder why Ferguson turned him into a defensive midfielder when you see past videos of Anderson. He'd probably have be lethal for United against any team as he was for Porto and Gremio.

What you've said about Lucas really does show how he's always a team player and looks out for others as he was raised in such a way.  I just hope Comolli/Dalglish hurry up and offer Lucas a new contract.
Ahh, pressing refresh and waiting for news... just like the bad old days.

Liverpool porn, this.

anyone who's negative can fuck off

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #930 on: January 10, 2011, 03:33:54 PM »
It's one of those things that makes you wonder why Ferguson turned him into a defensive midfielder when you see past videos of Anderson.

Owen Hargreaves.

Offline mulhergremista

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #931 on: January 10, 2011, 03:44:48 PM »
I think Anderson scored more than 2 , he also scored a very important penalty in CL, when others missed.  And i remember him helping others to score , in his first year, especially Tevez when he was in ManU

Afterwards when he was benched he wanted to leave, and repented.  I suppose he was shifted backwards when he came  because of somebody's injury.  Personally I always felt his tripple fee 18:6 of Lucas, was somehow humiliating for the latter, the same about Pato, he was sold for more tha 20 milions, and he did not play  until he was 18, more than half a year.  In Brasil, the opinion was Lucas was better than both Pato and Anderson, more complete player, he was the one who et the golden Ball, but he was sold very cheap , as I thought then.  Afterwards I thought maybe it was a blessing in disguise, lessened the pressure on him. Nobody could say" what a wast of money for him"  Pato took 2 years in Milan to become important for them, and Anderson had his ups and downs, in the log range, Rafa wa right to buy Lucas and not one of the other 2, though I suppose both could have been usefull to Liverpool too.
I hope Lucas has his contract soon, and lives to raise his son  with a terrible accent like Carraguer LOL (not really, he could do better than that)
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 03:51:19 PM by mulhergremista »

Offline Eddie Curl

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #932 on: January 10, 2011, 03:51:14 PM »
  I sent him some pieces of my mind, now I am expecting his "pearls" in return

He has no other tweets, just abuse

He should be banned, he is a very sick person who must be locked up in an asilum..   Some poor sucker that can not bear to see somebody pure (was called the kid of light in Gremio)  that get support, and more so from females.

Anybody can send him some worm??
deffo an evertonian peice of shit

Offline SeanPenn

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #933 on: January 10, 2011, 03:51:20 PM »
mulhergremista - thanks for the interesting information. Much appreciated to hear about their backgrounds.

BTW - I really like Lucas, and think he has been the best player this season.
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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #934 on: January 10, 2011, 04:43:20 PM »
cheers Miss Gremio for that piece about Lucas and Anderson, was a great read.
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Offline Sangria

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #935 on: January 10, 2011, 04:44:17 PM »
deffo an evertonian peice of shit

Mancunian, a blue to be precise.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline leivapool

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #936 on: January 10, 2011, 05:43:10 PM »
  I sent him some pieces of my mind, now I am expecting his "pearls" in return

He has no other tweets, just abuse

He should be banned, he is a very sick person who must be locked up in an asilum..   Some poor sucker that can not bear to see somebody pure (was called the kid of light in Gremio)  that get support, and more so from females.

Anybody can send him some worm??

I just read some of mulhergremista's tweet's to @staffywaffy.  Bloody brilliant!!
Quote from: Fordy
If Lucas wasnt from Brazil he would also be championship fodder.
Henderson won't make it here. Sorry but he won't and won't be a regular.

Offline leivapool

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #937 on: January 10, 2011, 05:47:40 PM »
Sorry if off-topic..but as I said, I signed up for Twitter to give him my support. How do I know if he recieves my Tweets? I always write "@LucasLeiva87 blablabla"..do they show up on his profile then? I'm sorry, but I'm new to this Twitter thing and I couldn't find a thread about it.

If you put @lucasleiva87 anywhere in the text of the tweet he will get it in his @mentions link.  to be honest if you search for @lucasleiva87 you will get all the tweets he has received. there is quite alot of them!!  He does reply though.  I've had 6 from him so consider myself very fortunate.
Quote from: Fordy
If Lucas wasnt from Brazil he would also be championship fodder.
Henderson won't make it here. Sorry but he won't and won't be a regular.

Offline steveeastend

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #938 on: January 10, 2011, 06:47:08 PM »
If you put @lucasleiva87 anywhere in the text of the tweet he will get it in his @mentions link.  to be honest if you search for @lucasleiva87 you will get all the tweets he has received. there is quite alot of them!!  He does reply though.  I've had 6 from him so consider myself very fortunate.

He likes you ;)
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Offline leivapool

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #939 on: January 10, 2011, 07:18:15 PM »
Quote from: Fordy
If Lucas wasnt from Brazil he would also be championship fodder.
Henderson won't make it here. Sorry but he won't and won't be a regular.

Offline vader90

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #940 on: January 10, 2011, 08:30:55 PM »
Well, you are harsh on Anderson.  He grew in the streets, football saved him from being one of the best drug deales in Brazil, as he said once.   After the famouse goal who brought Gremio back from relegation, he left very quickly, at 17, to Porto, where he shone, really, until he had terrible injury.

you can not compare a street boy like this to Lucas Leiva, upper middle class , decent upbringing, good education, most of the Brasilian footballers did not have these conditions, maybe only Kaka and some few others.  Anderson became the best firend of Cristiano Ronaldo who took him to nightclubs ad rich life.  Not the best influence for a kid like that.  Lucas had a tradition of football in his family, when he was born they had the plane for him, to triumf, in Tennis and than in football. He played in indoor football schools and than he was sent to Some boarding school for young talents in the Interior of Sao Paulo, a kid goes out of his home and rides a bus alone for 8 hours.  He did well in the boarding school, but at 14 he asked his parents to return him home, he was offered a place in the base categories of SP no leess, but he did not want to play there.  He played htan in the local team of his hometown, Dourados, where Gremio youth team came once to play, they were very much impressed by him and he was invited to Porto Alegre, pass the tests and again left home at 15, to live in the Gremio youth Academy.  He  was so lonsome at first that he asked his parents to come and take him home. They came, stayed 4-5 days and persuaded him to continue. Soon he was he captain of all the youth categories he played it,  and also played in all the base caegories of Brazil NT.
He had this privilage  Anderson fought for survival,  in the streets, and took also care of his mother.  His friends were some thieves adn drug dealers..  He had an ambition to be something else. He choose football, he lived not far from the Gremio stadium.  When he was 15 he negotiated his contract with the Gremio management. at 17, he did it with Porto.  While Lucas, the kid of the light, left it to his agent..Anderson was more admired in Gremio, they called him "andershow" He really went out early, because of the money, he himself admitted.  He bought himself a penthouse that looked to the Olimpico Gremio Stadium, a Ferrary.. He was still a minor.. but if you grow up in such an environment, he was born adult.  He actually permitted himself to be a kid after he had the money to buy all this. 

While Lucas mastered his English soon enought, Anderson befriended CR and Nani and soon spoke Portuguese in Portugues accent (Not Brasilian)  On the pitch he was reckless, did not respect any senior players, remember how he confronted Gerrard in a game?? in Lucas and Anderson first year.
Lucas was a late bloomer if you compare him to Anderson, but today Lucas is much more appreciated, as Anderson suffered f some bad injuries . Nevertheless, Ferguson rates his courage,  street wisdom, he gave him a very good new contract for  another 5 years, while our Lucas is still awaiting

As for his price, it was because Lucas came directly from Gremio while Anderson has been in Porto and has some good CL experience until the terrible injury. Also as i said Anderson is a shrewd negotiator.  Inspite of all his shortcomings, I like him, I think he will mature and be a good player. He is only 22.

Today in the game I wanted Anderson in our side, he knows how to advance to score, he almost scored a goal in the same way as he did in tha famous game of Gremio, but Kelly did not let him.

BTW, unlike Anderson, when lucas was advanced to the first team by Mano he did not buy penthouse and Ferrary or Armany clothes/  He bought some cattle  to the family ranch..and an apartment where he lived shortly after with Ariane , now his wife. A solid eficient BMW was for him..gray or dark blue, not red..


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Offline Visigoth33

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #941 on: January 10, 2011, 08:38:42 PM »
BTW, unlike Anderson, when lucas was advanced to the first team by Mano he did not buy penthouse and Ferrary or Armany clothes/ He bought some cattle  to the family ranch..and an apartment where he lived shortly after with Ariane , now his wife. A solid eficient BMW was for him..gray or dark blue, not red..

Speaks volumes of the player and his priorities when compared to the ridiculous lifestyles of today's young footballers

Offline leivapool

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #942 on: January 10, 2011, 09:22:14 PM »
BTW, unlike Anderson, when lucas was advanced to the first team by Mano he did not buy penthouse and Ferrary or Armany clothes/ He bought some cattle  to the family ranch..and an apartment where he lived shortly after with Ariane , now his wife. A solid eficient BMW was for him..gray or dark blue, not red..

Speaks volumes of the player and his priorities when compared to the ridiculous lifestyles of today's young footballers

Someone did comment on this youtube clip about how modest his home seems in Liverpool last year.  Fits with the background that Mulhergremista has given us. Lucas certainly doesn't fit the mock tudor mansion model of footballer!!  I think he's also quite cultured, he follows the author Paulo Coelho (The Alchemist) on Twitter!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sBLPiI6oBE
Quote from: Fordy
If Lucas wasnt from Brazil he would also be championship fodder.
Henderson won't make it here. Sorry but he won't and won't be a regular.

Offline El_N!no

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #943 on: January 10, 2011, 09:35:30 PM »
He is really starting to fulfill his potential, I honestly believe that in the next few seasons we will have one of the most sought after midfielders in Europe.

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #944 on: January 10, 2011, 09:37:37 PM »
In my earlier posts, I've compared Lucas as a player type to a Liverpool great, Ronnie Whelan. The new manager is the bloke who used Whelan in the role I saw Lucas in. Whelan was better all-round, most notably in confidence, but he was also older and more experienced by the time Dalglish used him in CM, so Lucas has time on his side.

In the 87-88 season, which is commonly regarded as the best pure footballing side Liverpool has ever produced, and comparable to any other great team in football history, Liverpool used 4 specialist CMs. The 1st choice pairing was Whelan and Steve McMahon, a tough tackler of the old school with a fearsome shot. Behind them were Jan Molby, a passer the equal of Alonso at his peak, and Nigel Spackman, a specialist DM who wasn't exactly the most fluent of passers, but who was unfazed by physical opponents, and who knew his limits. Of those 2, perhaps due to injuries and lack of fitness, Molby played fewer games than Spackman, who was definitely inferior to Lucas in all respects. Based on this, I think Dalglish will appreciate Lucas.

Would think Whelan more like Raul in his play than Lucas although Ronnie much firmer in the tackle. Raul needs a goal badly to settle him but rate him as a player. Lucas reminds me more of Peter Cormack...and could he play
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Offline Ambrosia

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #945 on: January 10, 2011, 09:40:34 PM »
I almost like Anderson now  :). Very informative post, gremista.

Offline Visigoth33

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #946 on: January 10, 2011, 09:56:13 PM »
Someone did comment on this youtube clip about how modest his home seems in Liverpool last year.  Fits with the background that Mulhergremista has given us. Lucas certainly doesn't fit the mock tudor mansion model of footballer!!  I think he's also quite cultured, he follows the author Paulo Coelho (The Alchemist) on Twitter!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sBLPiI6oBE
Yes, he is a true liverpool player on and off the pitch.I have seen that vid of Lucas playing wii and I wish it had English subtitles as it's is in Portuguese. ;D

Offline Rigden

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #947 on: January 10, 2011, 09:59:28 PM »
Someone did comment on this youtube clip about how modest his home seems in Liverpool last year.  Fits with the background that Mulhergremista has given us. Lucas certainly doesn't fit the mock tudor mansion model of footballer!!  I think he's also quite cultured, he follows the author Paulo Coelho (The Alchemist) on Twitter!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sBLPiI6oBE
He just seems like a genuine nice fella, an old school type of player. None of this 'im da shit' business, ala Balotelli.
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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #948 on: January 10, 2011, 10:40:12 PM »
He is really starting to fulfill his potential, I honestly believe that in the next few seasons we will have one of the most sought after midfielders in Europe.
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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #949 on: January 10, 2011, 10:41:46 PM »
Hopefully Kenny comes out and states what a player the lad has become because sadly there are still some around that just don't see it.
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Offline JWAlonso

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #950 on: January 10, 2011, 10:58:21 PM »
Hopefully Kenny comes out and states what a player the lad has become because sadly there are still some around that just don't see it.

The only people that can't see Lucas ability, is the sky armchair fans. I think Lucas is the ideal role model. No moaning, no temper. A sound lad. Got a lot off stick and abuse, but he stuck to his game and improved. He turning out to be one hell of a player. Thank you Rafa for sticking with him.
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Offline Sangria

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #951 on: January 10, 2011, 11:14:37 PM »
The only people that can't see Lucas ability, is the sky armchair fans. I think Lucas is the ideal role model. No moaning, no temper. A sound lad. Got a lot off stick and abuse, but he stuck to his game and improved. He turning out to be one hell of a player. Thank you Rafa for sticking with him.

It goes back beyond that. The Paisley quote indicates it was a problem even in the 1970s, back in his and Shankly's day, trying to get the fans to accept the new style of football they were putting in place. Either you think deeply about football and appreciate what the simple things do in the wider context, or you don't see it, but trust the management to get things right anyway. What they were doing, and the style of football Lucas plays, isn't as immediately apparent as the classical English style of footballer.
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http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline JWAlonso

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #952 on: January 10, 2011, 11:23:09 PM »
It goes back beyond that. The Paisley quote indicates it was a problem even in the 1970s, back in his and Shankly's day, trying to get the fans to accept the new style of football they were putting in place. Either you think deeply about football and appreciate what the simple things do in the wider context, or you don't see it, but trust the management to get things right anyway. What they were doing, and the style of football Lucas plays, isn't as immediately apparent as the classical English style of footballer.

He does the long pass when needed, but keeps it simple. That's how it should be. Using Gerrard as an example, he would rather go for the hollywood ball, the "fans" love, and a 3/4 off the time and loses possession, then do a simple 5-10 yard pass to keep possession and keep the tempo. English fans would rather see a long ball, than a short one. Just look at La liga, Seria A, they use quick short passes. Thats why the players over there a technically strong with the ball. Lucas has very good positional sense when defending, because you rarely see him do a last ditch tackle because he doesn't need to. A great sign in world class center mids. Lucas has a great future  ;)
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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #953 on: January 10, 2011, 11:41:53 PM »
I've said it before, but it bears repeating. Lucas does a lovely flat pass. Watch it some time, the ball doesn't spin one way or the other, not even minutely. Perfect flat. Dead straight. Second touch.

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #954 on: January 10, 2011, 11:46:31 PM »
He does the long pass when needed, but keeps it simple. That's how it should be. Using Gerrard as an example, he would rather go for the hollywood ball, the "fans" love, and a 3/4 off the time and loses possession, then do a simple 5-10 yard pass to keep possession and keep the tempo. English fans would rather see a long ball, than a short one. Just look at La liga, Seria A, they use quick short passes. Thats why the players over there a technically strong with the ball. Lucas has very good positional sense when defending, because you rarely see him do a last ditch tackle because he doesn't need to. A great sign in world class center mids. Lucas has a great future  ;)

I agree 100%. I love SG but he can give the ball away at times far too cheaply.

Last year I saw Argentina and the way they pass and hold onto the ball is excellent. They always have a simple pass on which keeps possession but alos pulls defenders out of position. If you watch Messi, he plays a lot of short quick passes and then moves into space for the return. He often runs across the forward line doing this but as soon as there is a gap he bursts through.

We need to keep the ball and move it around quickly. Recently we have been hoofing the ball which just invites the other team to come forwards. Quick short passes tire the other team both physically and mentally.

Both Meireles and Lucas are good at the short pass. Meireles is good at making himself available for the return ball.
We saw a glimpse of the two working together earlier and I expect them to develop into a very strong pairing.
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Offline hesbighesred

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #955 on: January 11, 2011, 12:17:54 AM »
Collaborative Euro 2021 blog I'm writing for. Check it out, and by all means share your views.
http://straightoffthebeach.wordpress.com/

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #956 on: January 11, 2011, 02:40:08 AM »
He does the long pass when needed, but keeps it simple. That's how it should be. Using Gerrard as an example, he would rather go for the hollywood ball, the "fans" love, and a 3/4 off the time and loses possession, then do a simple 5-10 yard pass to keep possession and keep the tempo. English fans would rather see a long ball, than a short one. Just look at La liga, Seria A, they use quick short passes. Thats why the players over there a technically strong with the ball. Lucas has very good positional sense when defending, because you rarely see him do a last ditch tackle because he doesn't need to. A great sign in world class center mids. Lucas has a great future  ;)

I am one of Lucas's biggest fans but I still think he can improve his positioning when he's the second defender, so to speak. Too often for my liking, he leaves just enough room and in just the right spot for the "obvious" pass to be made by the man being "closed down".  On the other hand, the point you made about him not needing to do any last minute tackles is well-taken. As with everything else, he's economical with his movement and always goes for the simple toe-poke rather than the crunching tackle, unless the latter is really indicated.
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Offline inspiRED

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #957 on: January 11, 2011, 02:52:03 AM »
Thought he had a decent game yesterday. Started off with a few misplaced passes which was very un-lucaslike but grew into the game as more responsibility was heaped onto his shoulders.

Think he will excel even more as we move to being a more pass orientated team again with his little short passes and always being available for the return.

Unfortunately still lots of blinkered sky wash fans that still think he's crap making it a real pain to talk footie with them.

Offline mulhergremista

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #958 on: January 11, 2011, 08:54:35 AM »
Do you think that the return of Carra from injury will bring upon us the hoofing game again, with all the known consequenses?  Kind of worrying me

Offline talklfc

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #959 on: January 11, 2011, 09:04:09 AM »
In my earlier posts, I've compared Lucas as a player type to a Liverpool great, Ronnie Whelan. The new manager is the bloke who used Whelan in the role I saw Lucas in. Whelan was better all-round, most notably in confidence, but he was also older and more experienced by the time Dalglish used him in CM, so Lucas has time on his side.

In the 87-88 season, which is commonly regarded as the best pure footballing side Liverpool has ever produced, and comparable to any other great team in football history, Liverpool used 4 specialist CMs. The 1st choice pairing was Whelan and Steve McMahon, a tough tackler of the old school with a fearsome shot. Behind them were Jan Molby, a passer the equal of Alonso at his peak, and Nigel Spackman, a specialist DM who wasn't exactly the most fluent of passers, but who was unfazed by physical opponents, and who knew his limits. Of those 2, perhaps due to injuries and lack of fitness, Molby played fewer games than Spackman, who was definitely inferior to Lucas in all respects. Based on this, I think Dalglish will appreciate Lucas.

Nice memories there and a good point. Lucas definitely has a place here. Before long, he'll be one of the names that EVERYONE mentions along with Torres, Reina etc.

As a side issue, I remember as a boy noticing on The Match that we had signed Barnes, Beardsley, Houghton and Spackman and thinking 'who?' lol

Not bad for 'unknowns' (in the mind of a young fella).

Lucas will be just fine here and the thing I like most about him is his attitude. Unlike players like Mascherano, he's definitely a Liverpool player.