Author Topic: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…  (Read 4282 times)

Offline corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 25,068
  • Is it getting better?
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2010, 12:24:06 PM »
In answer to some of the points made...

This season being a write off is how I feel. That's why I said "that's how I feel" after I wrote it. I may be wrong, I hope I'm wrong but that's my feeling right now. It's a mood thing rather than a rational thing, maybe the mental backlash that pewithree3 talked about. If I were a player, I would still try my guts out and as a supporter, any game I am lucky enough to go to will also have my full support but privately, I'm not expecting much.

As far as players are concerned, my guess is that there is already a division in the dressing room. Bringing in someone new might please some players but antagonise others further. We have to be pragmatic. As far as transfers are concerned, I am taking the view that Mr Comolli is now in charge of that.

The basic point, though, is this. Mr Hodgson's methods take time to gel, as they did at Fulham, but my belief is that they will deliver a mid table spot at minimum. Will a new manager do better or worse? I don't know but I would rather a new manager have the benefit of a pre season. I don't want to keep Mr Hodgson solely because it's the classy thing to do, although that is a factor. I don't want to keep him at all but my view is that, taking into account all the variables, we are safer sticking with him until the end of the season. Again, that's my view and anyone is entitled to disagree with it because it isn't a simple question.


Offline simonchamp

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,141
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2010, 12:29:08 PM »
Well written post, but it just keeps me coming back to the same thought: We're soft as shite.

Above all, you want us to keep him because you believe that's the 'right' thing to do, the 'classy' thing to do, and perhaps that's 'The Liverpool Way'. To me, all of those reasons are why we never get anywhere fast enough. I appreciate the sentiment, but I'd rather we were ruthless as fuck, to be honest. I don't want this season to be a write off, and it wouldn't be if we would just have some balls.


Absolutely.  Unfortunately Hodgson was brought in at a time when we were on our knees.  I wanted Kenny back then and would rather Hodgson was gone by the middle of January.

We cannot afford to lose too much ground and to damage confidence anymore than necessary.  Every single insipid performance breeds more contempt from the fans and apathy from the players - this has to be nipped in the bud.
Justice - 22 years overdue.

Online A Feint Zebra

  • What anti-perspirant do pessimistic people use? Not Sure.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,636
  • Feint, but still stripey.
    • Feint Zebra
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2010, 12:35:44 PM »
If it carries on the way it is - we will finish on 48 points for the season - and thats just based on * our points now by 3 which means 39 games played.

In 05/06 season, 48 points would have put us in 12th or 13th (depending on goal difference) whereas Liverpool finished 3rd with 82 points.

06/07 - 12th position. Liverpool finished 3rd with 68 points
07/08 - 11th position. Liverpool finished 4th with 76 points
08/09 - 11th position. Liverpool finished 2nd with 86 points
09/10 - 11th position. Liverpool finished 7th with 63 points.

Nice pattern there. Roll on the next 5 years of mid table mediocrity.
Spread some love on Facebook, give me some shit on Twitter or come & look around My Website | Play Lurking Thommo! Can you find him? | A FOOTBALL RUMOUR site

Online Zlenpasha

  • Suspicious of systems. But getting lots.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,878
  • Gentlemen take polaroids.
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2010, 12:37:16 PM »
I can't buy into this attitude. It is wrong to the bone.
This season is not a write off and we can and should aim for Champions league.
Hodgson will not only fail to deliver that but will also convince people that it is waaaaay out of our reach.

He is not the 'steady pair of hands' if he is creating an epidemic of people not giving a shit about the football any more, if he is insulting everyone from players to supporters and if he is destroying our prized youth and alienating some of our best players then what the fuck is 'steady' about his tenure so far?
It's like saying 'Oh, but the moonlight is nice.' while on the deck of the sinking Titanic.

Players that support Hodgson are doing so because they are using him to improve their postition, most of them can pack their bags with him as far as football is concerned (Poulsen, Carragher, Cole). Those we need for the future are suffering under his boot of mediocricity.

Hodgson is obviously doing a good job of filling the heads of both supporters and NESV with his soft words and warm farts psychology.
He is lowering our expectations and pissing his elixir of boredom all over our hopes and dreams.

You can do whatever you want and believe whatever you believe but I'll do a little old school hip hop singalong...
When I say BULLSHIT you say ROY....Bullshit...
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 12:38:58 PM by Zlopasha »

Offline Dr Manhattan

  • I discovered and developed fucktron. That's right, me. It's my word and, frankly, anyone trying to take credit for it is nothing short of a fucktron.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,457
  • Officially the 7th best poster you'll see on here.
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2010, 12:44:13 PM »
I don't want to keep him at all but my view is that, taking into account all the variables, we are safer sticking with him until the end of the season. Again, that's my view and anyone is entitled to disagree with it because it isn't a simple question.

I'm afraid I do disagree with it, and massively so. How on earth are we "safer" sticking with him until the end of the season? I know you've listed your reasons for backing him, but they're not really counter-balanced by any reasons why bringing in someone else would be worse. If you're thinking it's best to stick with Hodgson at this point then by that token you can take a look at his season so far, triple our points total, and get a rough idea of where we'll be come May. It'll be somewhere in the bottom half of the table with around 48 points.

I'm not saying that's definite, and I'm not saying we can't and won't do better than that, but what I am saying is that if what you've seen so far is acceptable to you, and worth sticking with him until the end of the season, then that points total we have right there would seemingly also be acceptable.

At this time we're a handful of points away from 4th place, but nobody (even YOU saying you'll give him until the end of the season) is talking about the possibility of finishing there. Infact, you're saying the season is a write-off, which shows that you believe it can only go along the same pattern for the remainder of it, and that you don't have any faith in Hodgson to improve things. So why the hell is it "safer", from this point on, to stick with him for the rest of the season?

To me it's a no-brainer, and even people sticking up for him don't believe we can get 4th place, so what's the point in keeping him??
I trust the King, but if we lose a few more on the trot now - he may have to step aside, and we have to purchase another manager in the middle of the season. If we are relegated, this could be the end of our ambitions to win any title the next 100 years.

Offline corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 25,068
  • Is it getting better?
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #45 on: November 16, 2010, 12:52:29 PM »
To me it's a no-brainer, and even people sticking up for him don't believe we can get 4th place, so what's the point in keeping him??

Ok, how about this. I've put up points for keeping him and you complain that I don't counterbalance that with reasons why someone else would be worse. That's fair comment, simply because although I have indentified certain risks with players and so on, I don't know that anyone new will be worse. You, on the other hand, seem intent on getting someone new in, so why don't you tell me why you think someone new will do better? And not better long term, but better between whenever you want rid of Mr Hodgson and the end of the season. What is it about the new (as yet unidentified) manager that will make the difference? How will this new manager succeed in getting us a better league finish, especially bearing in mind that the players he has to work with will now be learning their third playing system in six months?

Offline Always_A_Red

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,732
  • The reds are coming up the hill boys
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #46 on: November 16, 2010, 01:03:45 PM »
Ok, how about this. I've put up points for keeping him and you complain that I don't counterbalance that with reasons why someone else would be worse. That's fair comment, simply because although I have indentified certain risks with players and so on, I don't know that anyone new will be worse. You, on the other hand, seem intent on getting someone new in, so why don't you tell me why you think someone new will do better? And not better long term, but better between whenever you want rid of Mr Hodgson and the end of the season. What is it about the new (as yet unidentified) manager that will make the difference? How will this new manager succeed in getting us a better league finish, especially bearing in mind that the players he has to work with will now be learning their third playing system in six months?

You cant honestly suggest that if Mourinho, Hiddink, Ancheloti, Benitez, Ferguson or Wenger were in charge of this theam they would not be able to do a better job than Roy? Obviously the managers i have named are not necessarilly available at the moment, but there are many managers out there whose tactics would benefit the qualities of the players we have here already.


Offline corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 25,068
  • Is it getting better?
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #47 on: November 16, 2010, 01:07:13 PM »
You cant honestly suggest that if Mourinho, Hiddink, Ancheloti, Benitez, Ferguson or Wenger were in charge of this theam they would not be able to do a better job than Roy?

I didn't, largely because none of those managers would take the job.

there are many managers out there whose tactics would benefit the qualities of the players we have here already.

Name one and tell me exactly why you think he will definitely do better than Mr Hodgson.

Online A Feint Zebra

  • What anti-perspirant do pessimistic people use? Not Sure.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,636
  • Feint, but still stripey.
    • Feint Zebra
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2010, 01:09:59 PM »
You cant honestly suggest that if Mourinho, Hiddink, Ancheloti, Benitez, Ferguson or Wenger were in charge of this theam they would not be able to do a better job than Roy? Obviously the managers i have named are not necessarilly available at the moment, but there are many managers out there whose tactics would benefit the qualities of the players we have here already.

Your right. And I'm quite happy to suggest that quite a few of them would probably have us challenging for the title - even with the current crop of players we have that Roy so despises (where he fails to take into account that all 13 prem goals have been scored by people signed by his predecessor, or are Gerrard).

But isn't this what football is all about? Discussion amongst fans. Individual opinion. Everyone thinking they are in the right. :) Even Roys at it.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 01:14:52 PM by A Feint Zebra »
Spread some love on Facebook, give me some shit on Twitter or come & look around My Website | Play Lurking Thommo! Can you find him? | A FOOTBALL RUMOUR site

Online Zlenpasha

  • Suspicious of systems. But getting lots.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,878
  • Gentlemen take polaroids.
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2010, 01:12:04 PM »
Corkboy c'mon, really?
Almost any manager willing to play normal, modern football, with people playing in their true positions will do better the Roy.
No names needed because it's useless, who can prove that, nobody can.
What can however be proved is the damage Roy Hodgson is doing. You can project our current demise onto the whole season to see that he'll singlehandedly challenge Tom Hicks for the crown of the Vermin of the century (he'll lose but still).

Offline Dr Manhattan

  • I discovered and developed fucktron. That's right, me. It's my word and, frankly, anyone trying to take credit for it is nothing short of a fucktron.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,457
  • Officially the 7th best poster you'll see on here.
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #50 on: November 16, 2010, 01:12:58 PM »
Ok, how about this. I've put up points for keeping him and you complain that I don't counterbalance that with reasons why someone else would be worse. That's fair comment, simply because although I have indentified certain risks with players and so on, I don't know that anyone new will be worse. You, on the other hand, seem intent on getting someone new in, so why don't you tell me why you think someone new will do better? And not better long term, but better between whenever you want rid of Mr Hodgson and the end of the season. What is it about the new (as yet unidentified) manager that will make the difference? How will this new manager succeed in getting us a better league finish, especially bearing in mind that the players he has to work with will now be learning their third playing system in six months?

Simply put, the ideas and the way Hodgson is going about his job just aren't working, and we've seen from the season so far that he's very very set in his ways. He's suggested over and over again that "his methods" are fine because of where he's worked in the past. He has no intention of changing anything at all, and he's got us in to a position where we don't EVER look comfortable playing to his style. There are rumours, and admittedly they are just that at this time, that the players aren't particularly happy with what they're being asked to do. I'm not in favour of 'player power' but there has to be a happy medium somewhere along the line, surely?

If it's a straight choice of having the same tactics, approach, and effort we've seen so far OR having a new start with a manager with a fresh approach and ideas then that, to me personally, is a complete no-brainer.

Names? Realistically, Dalglish until the end of the season is one idea, certainly. You can't possibly tell me that Dalglish wouldn't get more out of our current squad than Roy Hodgson. Rijkaard, if you're looking for someone with an attacking mindset is another who could come in right away.

How would they get us a better finish? I agree, it's not guaranteed, but as I said before with Dalglish - there's no doubt in my mind that the effort would improve markedly playing for the biggest legend in the history of this club. And for all the rumours of certain players being happy under Hodgson, there's no way they'd be any less happy playing for Kenny Dalglish. As for Rijkaard, he has a very attack-minded approach, and right now we're not in a position where we can continue to approach games like Stoke, Wigan, and others with a softly softly we're-shit-scared-of-you-and-would-settle-for-a-point-here mentality. We need to start believing that we can take teams apart, and a side full of internationals isn't approaching ANY game like that at present.

Nothing is guaranteed. But I've always been of the mindset that this club shouldn't be settling for draws at smaller sides, or writing off the season in November. It should be competing, and if it isn't then that needs to be addressed. I wasn't calling for Rafa's head, because he'd already proven that it was in him to take this club further. He had one bad season and we sacked him, but it wasn't like it is now. Rafa had the backing because he understood this club and it's fans and culture, but at the same time his hands were tied and he was working under horrible pressures from within the club. I don't think Hodgson understands this club one little bit, and he's in an enviable position where the bigger problems have been sorted for him, yet he's still struggling like fuck to get things right. He's not the right guy, and you yourself have admitted that. I think it comes down to how much you're willing to put up with, and after three years of absolute shite surrounding this club I'm not of the mind to keep settling for more nonsense which needs to be addressed and isn't quickly enough.

I've had enough of one problem after the other, I want to fall in love with football again, and Roy Hodgson is stopping me doing that.
I trust the King, but if we lose a few more on the trot now - he may have to step aside, and we have to purchase another manager in the middle of the season. If we are relegated, this could be the end of our ambitions to win any title the next 100 years.

Online The G in Gerrard

  • Rapidly approaching 24,000+ posts, each one shitter than the last
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,951
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #51 on: November 16, 2010, 01:13:41 PM »
It's the "Liverpool way" thats keeping Roy in a job, its this same ethos that has left us lagging behind other clubs for past 20 odd years.

Bout time we came into the modern world and a man who's clearly not up to the job be removed from his duties.

Offline Incognito

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 923
  • Be kind...Rewind
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #52 on: November 16, 2010, 01:15:50 PM »
Give him the season.  Ok, he might not get us relegated yet could lose a Europa League spot but so what...it's not like its the CL and got a lot of boring unpronouncable teams.

When season closes he can sit down with Henry and tell him he could've done much better if he'd had a better squad.  Everyone has been saying that so he's not pulling Henry's leg.  Added to this Comolli has sighted quite a few interesting targets that should fit perfectly into Roy's tactics.  Henry and co. buy it and Roy gets another season.

I mean, he should really since with this one he isn't working with the tools he needs as a top class manager.  And don't forget, this years premier league is just full of formidable opponents so there's no wonder it's so hard to get results.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 01:17:44 PM by Ignito »

Offline paisley84

  • Main Stander
  • **
  • Posts: 167
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #53 on: November 16, 2010, 01:19:15 PM »
Patience is what we needed when Benitez had a poor season and the ownership of our club was in transition and we were vulnerable and needed continuity on the pitch. Patience is what we needed when Lucas was being abused by people who didn't have a clue.

Urgency is what is needed now.
[/quote
same thing thats srawled across the stars is written under our skin

Offline Always_A_Red

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,732
  • The reds are coming up the hill boys
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #54 on: November 16, 2010, 01:22:46 PM »
I didn't, largely because none of those managers would take the job.

Name one and tell me exactly why you think he will definitely do better than Mr Hodgson.

Kenny dalglish would do a better job than Roy everyday of the week. The role of a Liverpool manager is not just about getting the results right. It is about conducting yourself in a mannor that a club like LFC deserves. There is is not one manager in the world who cocks up so many press conferences and critisizes the players in public and who calls their own fans a 'nuisence'. Kenny has an aura that would demand respect and would put a stop to the 'player power' that Roy seems to be incapable of controlling. Roys tactics (in particular away from home) are very negative. He does not make the most of the players that he has available to him because he plays them out of position. Kenny has proved that his style is alot more fluid and attacking and entertaining.

I cannot see how keeping Roy here is going to be a benefit to us. Some people have said 'we should not judge him after only 13 games'. Well my answer is clear. It has not been 13 games, it has been more like 25 games including league cup, europe and friendlies, and not one performance over a 90 mins period has stood out to me and said 'i can see progress here'. If we add that to the fact he is extremelly inept tactically, seems to have problems managing his players and has no rewspect for the tradititions of the club or the respect of the fans, I would say that is plenty enough reason NOT to keep Roy.

Offline tomred

  • yraelo
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,387
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #55 on: November 16, 2010, 01:23:53 PM »

Mickey Mouse will turn us around!
Mickey Mouse is a Roy Hodgson manager!

Offline Roy of the rovers

  • TORY Supporter - proof being he voted for Blair...
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,687
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #56 on: November 16, 2010, 01:30:43 PM »
Don't agree with any of these reasons in particular

Classy way - well, maybe, but those times were characterised by better owners and better appointments. The stakes are higher now.

Vision - nothing in his vision appeals

Safe hands - no we won't be relegated, but Europa league next year is the minimum 'safe' position. And I have no confidence in this

Players - Comolli might stop us buying rubbish, but he can't attract quality and nor can he retain it

Enough already - the season isn't a write off. We can, and must reach Europa league places or risk major problems. Roy is the biggest risk to this and must leave now/asap

Offline stockdam

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,196
  • Walk on through the wind, Walk on through the rain
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #57 on: November 16, 2010, 01:31:31 PM »
I think every day that RH stays is damaging the club. There will be nothing if he stays until summer.

Is it easier to get a decent manager or to replace Gerrard, Torres and Reina? If we keep RH then we could be looking at two or three of them leaving........maybe even in January (Gerrard will probably stay).
#JFT96

Offline Fernando-Towers

  • Anny Roader
  • ***
  • Posts: 420
    • The Out of Towner
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #58 on: November 16, 2010, 01:33:56 PM »
Simply put, the ideas and the way Hodgson is going about his job just aren't working, and we've seen from the season so far that he's very very set in his ways. He's suggested over and over again that "his methods" are fine because of where he's worked in the past. He has no intention of changing anything at all, and he's got us in to a position where we don't EVER look comfortable playing to his style. There are rumours, and admittedly they are just that at this time, that the players aren't particularly happy with what they're being asked to do. I'm not in favour of 'player power' but there has to be a happy medium somewhere along the line, surely?

If it's a straight choice of having the same tactics, approach, and effort we've seen so far OR having a new start with a manager with a fresh approach and ideas then that, to me personally, is a complete no-brainer.

Names? Realistically, Dalglish until the end of the season is one idea, certainly. You can't possibly tell me that Dalglish wouldn't get more out of our current squad than Roy Hodgson. Rijkaard, if you're looking for someone with an attacking mindset is another who could come in right away.

How would they get us a better finish? I agree, it's not guaranteed, but as I said before with Dalglish - there's no doubt in my mind that the effort would improve markedly playing for the biggest legend in the history of this club. And for all the rumours of certain players being happy under Hodgson, there's no way they'd be any less happy playing for Kenny Dalglish. As for Rijkaard, he has a very attack-minded approach, and right now we're not in a position where we can continue to approach games like Stoke, Wigan, and others with a softly softly we're-shit-scared-of-you-and-would-settle-for-a-point-here mentality. We need to start believing that we can take teams apart, and a side full of internationals isn't approaching ANY game like that at present.

Nothing is guaranteed. But I've always been of the mindset that this club shouldn't be settling for draws at smaller sides, or writing off the season in November. It should be competing, and if it isn't then that needs to be addressed. I wasn't calling for Rafa's head, because he'd already proven that it was in him to take this club further. He had one bad season and we sacked him, but it wasn't like it is now. Rafa had the backing because he understood this club and it's fans and culture, but at the same time his hands were tied and he was working under horrible pressures from within the club. I don't think Hodgson understands this club one little bit, and he's in an enviable position where the bigger problems have been sorted for him, yet he's still struggling like fuck to get things right. He's not the right guy, and you yourself have admitted that. I think it comes down to how much you're willing to put up with, and after three years of absolute shite surrounding this club I'm not of the mind to keep settling for more nonsense which needs to be addressed and isn't quickly enough.

I've had enough of one problem after the other, I want to fall in love with football again, and Roy Hodgson is stopping me doing that.

I agree with this. I'd in fact take it even further.

I feel so strongly about it that I think NESV have a DUTY to the supporters of this football club to remove Hodgson as quickly as possible. That's not a knee jerk reaction. I'm serious.

I think they are letting us down long term if they persist beyond the end of the season with him. I can allow them that, but beyond that if they persist and persist with a manager whose track record is nowhere close to what a Liverpool manager should have, whose signings are nowhere close to being Liverpool signings, whose attitude, disrespect, belittlement of players and fans is in an altogether different realm to everything a Liverpool manager should be, I will judge them for it (badly) and feel entitled to do so.

They are new and time is what they need, but to answer the question posed above, I honestly believe just about any other PL manager other than maybe Pulis, Fat Sam or McCarthy would take this team to a higher league finish over the next 26 games than Hodgson would. The football and long terms strategy (or complete lack of one), is so appalling that I feel that strongly about it.

I respect those who are willing to sit back and bide their time, I really do. But like Dr Manhattan, I want to wake up on Saturday fervently looking forward to the match, not dreading it. With Hodgson at the helm, I am highly doubtful that that will ever happen.
"White liquid - milk. You know who to blame!".

Offline CB

  • Kopite
  • ****
  • Posts: 602
  • Chi non salta della Lazio e'
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #59 on: November 16, 2010, 01:42:25 PM »
Well written post, but it just keeps me coming back to the same thought: We're soft as shite.

Above all, you want us to keep him because you believe that's the 'right' thing to do, the 'classy' thing to do, and perhaps that's 'The Liverpool Way'. To me, all of those reasons are why we never get anywhere fast enough. I appreciate the sentiment, but I'd rather we were ruthless as fuck, to be honest. I don't want this season to be a write off, and it wouldn't be if we would just have some balls.
I also wish that we were more ruthless, not as much as those twats at the other end of the East Lancs, but certainly upping our game. I think that NESV (or Fenway as they are now) have all the hallmarks of a classy outfit and that should make us think about whether "doing the right thing" will help really our predicament.

The easy thing to do is probably sign players that have been around the Premier League and that could help get us out of this mess. However, it is a bold statement of intent to now sign the next 2/3 young stars of the future.

The Liverpool Way would be to give Hodgson more time but a more corporate mentality would say that you cut out those in your organisation that accept mediocrity and do not deliver what is expected by all the stakeholders.
Milan nel incubo

Offline Fanxxxxtastic

  • Up for it and happy to give it a go.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,733
  • I'm a proud cyber terrorist!
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #60 on: November 16, 2010, 03:23:26 PM »
Don't agree with the OP.

Not at all.

Keeping Roy here for the wrong reasons - it's bollocks. He shouldn't be here in the first place. Not being funny, but what the fuck made you write it?

The longer he stays, the more damage he will do. He will alienate more players, he will do more damage in the transfer market, and it will convince some of our top players that NESV are not ruthless enough to make a SIMPLE decision. He will depress the fuck out of our fans. The season may not be a write off yet. The Europa League is certainly within our grasp, even if the CL looks too optimistic. But we should keep because he won't get us relegated?

There is a Liverpool Way, but if you're gonna apply it then you also have to apply it to yourself as well. And you're accepting something that is less than mediocrity.

Good post Greg.  He scares the shit out of me, and the further potential damage he could cause, may see us needing to have a more major overhaul than would have been needed.  If that was the case, he could set us back years in order to recover.
http://twitter.com/Fanxxxxtastic

"A big heart has space for everyone" - Rafa Benitez

Smash the cull!  Smash the BNP!

Offline stockdam

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,196
  • Walk on through the wind, Walk on through the rain
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #61 on: November 16, 2010, 03:37:57 PM »
Most of us can't see the reason for not making a decision now. We may be proven wrong but now is the time.

If we wait until the end of the season then we may have bought some players in January that are not needed by a new manager.
We may loose some of our best players.
We may not even be in the Europa League.
We will have great difficulty getting new players - who'd come to a team that is slipping down the league.

If the current boss is not long-term then he must go now.......there's no point wasting more time.
If he's for staying then we'll wait and hope that he changes the style and we start to play better football because at the moment we haven't much clue.
#JFT96

Offline zabadoh

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,944
  • Walk on with hope in your heart
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #62 on: November 16, 2010, 05:19:36 PM »
Oh FFS, now Pacheco's feeling alienated

Disgruntling our established star players isn't enough, giving away emerging young players (Insua, Aquilani) isn't enough.  Now our brightest prospects want out.

Shall we wait until the cupboard is bare before letting Roy go?
Anyway, like an ex-girlfriend's cleavage, it's probably the last we'll see of these two tits.

Offline GeneticRed

  • Anny Roader
  • ***
  • Posts: 357
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #63 on: November 16, 2010, 05:48:47 PM »
Kenny has proved that his style is alot more fluid and attacking and entertaining.
But he's not proved it recently has he?
It's a big risk to his reputation to come in now as manager.
It would certainly be better if we could find someone else so that Kenny's status is preserved. I'd hate to see the love for him weakened if he failed to live up to expectations. The demands placed on the modern football manager maybe too much for him. He hasn't got recent form as i've said so it's a big risk.
In my view best to keep him safe and in good health. Preserve him as our finest living legend and look after him as much as possible.
That said sticking with Roy brings its own huge set of problems. So if not Roy or Kenny then who? This is the most important question we need to ask in my view.

We either:

1) Stick with Roy to the end of the season and replace him then.
2) Replace him now with Kenny.
3) Replace him now with someone else but for whom none of us can suggest a feasible candidate.

Offline Punter

  • Main Stander
  • **
  • Posts: 62
  • Free at last, free at last.
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #64 on: November 16, 2010, 06:09:16 PM »
The season is far from over. A top four spot can be salvaged. The clock is ticking though and Roy must go. The players are not as horrible as is made out by Roy. Playing them in the proper positions would actually provide an opportunity for success. Not throwing players under a bus at every press conference would help the mental side. Bring in a manager who provides belief and sensible tactical acumen. The results will be far better when the team is not hampered by a negative approach.

Never surrender. This is not West Ham.


Online Runehammer

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Anny Roader
  • *****
  • Posts: 305
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #65 on: November 16, 2010, 06:52:38 PM »
I do think this season is a write off in so far as actually winning anything goes and with Roy in "charge" I am sceptical of Europa qualification too but, and this is the main factor for me, I would much prefer winning at home and losing away by having a go at winning every game than by achieving the same with what passes for tactics in Roy's mind. 

I don't presume to speak for others but I daresay there are several who would prefer failing by having a go rather than the cowardly "hang on to what we started with" approach that we are saddled with. 

In any event tho' I cannot fathom for the life of me why anyone is asking for more time for Roy when it would appear we stand to lose almost every player with a molecule of creativity under his tenure. 

Offline Hunter Thompson

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,008
  • Possibilities, no?
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #66 on: November 16, 2010, 06:57:37 PM »
So, the most positive thing you can say about Roy is that he won't get us relegated. Surely that's not a good enough reason to let him keep the job. With the way City, Spurs Arsenal and United are dropping points this year, 4th is well within our reach. If I'm not mistaken we'd already be in the top four if we'd won our last two games, or at least very close to it. We can get top four this season, but not with Roy in charge. That alone is reason enough to get rid of him.

Offline TipTopKop

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,568
  • Call Meeeeeee The Splund
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #67 on: November 16, 2010, 07:42:00 PM »
Nothing about our club (top to bottom) gives me the kind of confidence that we're going to go for big things any time soon to be frank, so meh.

Online keeby

  • Anny Roader
  • ***
  • Posts: 400
  • fly in the loaf does a good pint !
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #68 on: November 16, 2010, 08:41:26 PM »
Roys like a slow leaking pipe in your kitchen - its a problem, and you know it needs sorting, so what do you do ? put up with it ? be content with mopping up the small mess in the short term, hoping that it does not turn into a gusher, by which time your flooded out and basically f_cked.
Im all for getting these problems nipped in the bud asap. FIX the problem as soon as possible.
was on blankety blank once and came second.........

Online A Feint Zebra

  • What anti-perspirant do pessimistic people use? Not Sure.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,636
  • Feint, but still stripey.
    • Feint Zebra
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #69 on: November 16, 2010, 08:46:08 PM »
Roys like a slow leaking pipe in your kitchen - its a problem, and you know it needs sorting, so what do you do ? put up with it ? be content with mopping up the small mess in the short term, hoping that it does not turn into a gusher, by which time your flooded out and basically f_cked.
Im all for getting these problems nipped in the bud asap. FIX the problem as soon as possible.

Your right. I had a gaping Roy in my roof and we ignored it. Unfortunately, despite holding ours heads up high through the storms, the rain came through and flooded our bedroom.

Morale of the story - fix the gaping Roy as soon as you know about it, otherwise you'll end up with a bigger mess than anticipated.
Spread some love on Facebook, give me some shit on Twitter or come & look around My Website | Play Lurking Thommo! Can you find him? | A FOOTBALL RUMOUR site

Online keeby

  • Anny Roader
  • ***
  • Posts: 400
  • fly in the loaf does a good pint !
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #70 on: November 16, 2010, 08:54:39 PM »
Your right. I had a gaping Roy in my roof and we ignored it. Unfortunately, despite holding ours heads up high through the storms, the rain came through and flooded our bedroom.

Morale of the story - fix the gaping Roy as soon as you know about it, otherwise you'll end up with a bigger mess than anticipated.
lol ! but you get my drift.
was on blankety blank once and came second.........

Online A Feint Zebra

  • What anti-perspirant do pessimistic people use? Not Sure.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,636
  • Feint, but still stripey.
    • Feint Zebra
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #71 on: November 16, 2010, 08:56:00 PM »
lol ! but you get my drift.

I'm agreeing with you, but at the same time using my real life story to help you out as it did happen :)
Spread some love on Facebook, give me some shit on Twitter or come & look around My Website | Play Lurking Thommo! Can you find him? | A FOOTBALL RUMOUR site

Offline larrylimestreet

  • Kopite
  • ****
  • Posts: 722
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #72 on: November 16, 2010, 09:01:00 PM »
Its a business now - and no good business keeps a weak man at the helm for any
length of time if they want to do well.

Accommodating old worn out players for young Kelly on Saturday was a prime example.

Bringing Poulsen on at Wigan was another. There's a heap more weak decisions been made already.

We're a proud Football Club, in fine business fettle 'off-field' at the moment. We dont need to hit fifty on-field reasons
before making a decision ourselves - thats too late, and a weak thing to do.

Offline gandt

  • Kopite
  • ****
  • Posts: 547
  • just lFC
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #73 on: November 16, 2010, 09:05:19 PM »
good idea, keep hodgson till the end of the season and all of our best players leave half way through it, sorry cant take that risk.

Offline Jules Winnfield

  • Main Stander
  • **
  • Posts: 59
  • Take the money and run
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #74 on: November 16, 2010, 09:31:41 PM »
If Roy stays until the summer how many times will we keep repeating the same arguements over and over? Are we going to play any differently for the rest of the season?No is the honest answer, Roy doesnt change, doesnt see that he should and doesnt think he has done anything wrong. Just looking at whats on the pitch for the next 8 months and it means the OP just has to be refuted very strongly.

The players do not look like they want to be on the pitch (not very different to last season but I thought that was half the reason Rafa went ignoring the politics and Purslow!) but now the ones who were happy (Reina/Johnson/Torres/Agger.....) are looking disillusioned and fed up. Some might say get over it your paid to go out do what the manager asks but anyone who has played sunday league would be despondent if the aul lad in charge said sit deep and give them the ball, you'd be on your way to the next club who want to play football with the ball

Comolli is making all the right noise that Roy is on board but replace him and I bet he says the same about the incumbent manager. The philosophy that NESV want to instill with Comolli and the moneyball/Arsenal/Barcelona experience in the club mean a manager will have to fit in, the players he wants will have to meet criteria set by this philosophy and I do not see Roy ever being dynamic enough to sit with all of that and utilise the results of the short or long term plans.

No one knows what NESV want but apart from the journos I dont see anyone standing up to keep Roy on and defend what he is doing, soundbites from John Henry dont mean anything at this stage when they are followed up by him admitting he doesnt have the experience of how English football works and this is probably the only thing keeping Roy in place until the "strategy" is finalised and the ideal candidate identified.

As any fan will tell you of any club watching Liverpool right now, the football being served up has never been this poor and unentertaining/unambitious and getting sympathy like that is embaressing for Liverpool fans.

And I cant stand a manager who spits! :no



Genius is born.......not paid

Offline corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 25,068
  • Is it getting better?
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #75 on: November 16, 2010, 10:37:14 PM »
It's a chastening experience to start a thread on a subject such as this and be roundly opposed from then on. Fair enough, and none of it was nasty, which is encouraging.

Anyway, my feeling is that I'll get my wish. From what we've seen of these New Englanders, they don't rush in and also, they don't seem to deceive. Those words may prove hostages to fortune, but what little I've heard about them from the Bostonians is that they are straight shooters. Their organisation is slick, no doubt, and they manage the information flow very well but I've heard nothing to indicate that they're liars.

So when they say blaming the manager is wrong, I expect we may take them at their word. Whether that translates as blaming the manager will be wrong until next May is the real question. I have a looney tune going around in my head where Reina and Torres have been told that Mr Hodgson will be gone by June, and pass it on. 

Offline robbie96

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,234
  • Cometh the hour, Cometh the man!
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #76 on: November 16, 2010, 10:42:48 PM »
It's a chastening experience to start a thread on a subject such as this and be roundly opposed from then on. Fair enough, and none of it was nasty, which is encouraging.

Anyway, my feeling is that I'll get my wish. From what we've seen of these New Englanders, they don't rush in and also, they don't seem to deceive. Those words may prove hostages to fortune, but what little I've heard about them from the Bostonians is that they are straight shooters. Their organisation is slick, no doubt, and they manage the information flow very well but I've heard nothing to indicate that they're liars.

So when they say blaming the manager is wrong, I expect we may take them at their word. Whether that translates as blaming the manager will be wrong until next May is the real question. I have a looney tune going around in my head where Reina and Torres have been told that Mr Hodgson will be gone by June, and pass it on. 

But, the real question is will Reina and Torres be off before then?! :-\
Iain Macintosh via Twitter:
Bosingwa almost starts a riot by getting subbed and trudging off the pitch like a old border collie making his final trip to the vet.

Offline jDJ

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,795
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #77 on: November 16, 2010, 10:45:49 PM »
The acceptance of mediocrity is the antithesis of the Liverpool way.

Online Zlenpasha

  • Suspicious of systems. But getting lots.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,878
  • Gentlemen take polaroids.
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #78 on: November 16, 2010, 10:50:18 PM »
Fair enough corkboy, in the end none of us knows which way will it go.
I suspect that our new owners already feel that Hodgson is devaluating their asset and I don't think they like it.
It's not about lying or being honest, they are evidently sooooo slick and skilled with the media you can't really read into it anyhow. They control what info they give out - completely.
Results will be the end of Roy Hodgson in the end, not NESV.
He just does not have it in him to deliver and NESV will reward his competence appropriately.

Online kavah

  • the Blacksmith
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,468
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: To Every Thing (turn, turn, turn…
« Reply #79 on: November 17, 2010, 02:31:47 AM »
A time for mid table consolidation...


Half man half biscuit or jegsy Dodd :D