Topic: Roy shows how deep the rot at Anfield runs....

[youll never walk alone it]

kennys teams were booed more than once by our fans when  he last managed us, so  it wont be the first time.

[koptician]

FS top post mate. I firmly believe that if all the impatience and bile directed towards Rafa didn't exist we'd be in a much better spot and you can bet the press took encouragement from supporters baying for blood

[Breitner]

Wouldn't worry about it. Internet culture lends itself to the extreme.

[robgomm]

OP is very good indeed. I feel exactly the same about the legacy of H&G being that the supporters get the point of baying for blood faster than they ever have before. That, to some extent, is a side effect of the modern game but it's been so much worsened for Liverpool by the internal problems at the club. Main reason I hope Hodgson succeeds, other than wanting Liverpool to succeed in general of course, is that we could do with a period of relative calm and solid results before we try to build back up again.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

The Shanks thing does cut to the heart of these comments and also it cuts to the heart of why Kenny Dalglish should never be our manager again.   After Bob took over from Shanks then Shanks would call around at Melwood just to pass the time doing what he loved most, watching footy.  The problem was that such was the stature of the man the players were still referring to him as Boss.  It was undermining Paisley's authority and the club acted, harshly but correctly, by banning Shanks from Melwood.  Shanks then took to visiting Bellefield to watch the blues, hence the quote.

The club did the right thing and to contrast take a look at Man United throughout the early seventies where each successive coach was undermined by the continued presence of Matt Busby.  Liverpool post Shanks went from strength to strength.  The Mancs post Busby declined and were relegated.

I want Kenny Dalglish to be distant enough to the hands on work with the players that he can remain in some sort of Director of Football role at Anfield for as long as he wants.  You make him manager and he has to walk away at the end of that managerial tenure.  It's a huge gamble.

[lawrie]

Our current mentality has most certainly been cultivated by the H&G horror show. Many on here, the OP included, became increasingly frustrated by the seeming lack of motivation by the wider fan base to mobolise against our previous owners, we needed action to get them out or we would all be responsible for the consequences. Well finally the wider fan base did mobolise. Perhaps we are all now afraid that if we dont continue to do our bit  against Roy (by fair means or foul) he will be allowed to stay and cause irrepairable damage. After all we all saw a slight softening of attitude towards him after just one 70 minute performance last week.

[xavidub]

Most of us didn't want him, but even then were prepared to be proven wrong. He hasn't proven us wrong. Quite the opposite.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

I agree with that Lawrie and my view is that it was our duty to do everything in our power to rid the club of our previous owners because nobody else was going to do it for us.  The manager is different, I don't think it is our job to campaign for his removal precisely because we now have a new set of owners who are far better placed than we are to make that decision.  Mainly because as a whole host of idiots on here found out, campaigning to get rid of a manager when you don't know who the replacement will be can land you way deeper in the shit then you ever dreamed possible.

[Gigantic Lamb]

We helped to force out the most successful and best manager we've had in decades. We turned on him when he needed us most. We turned on him while he fought tooth and claw for us. We helped install the manager we've got. We got what we deserved.

I agree with most of what your saying FS but I cant agree with that .

Rafa was his own worst enemy who fell out with every MD he has ever worked for..I dont really want to deflect from your thread which is very good and well thought out,but hardly any true LFC supporter helped to install Hodgson as manager......

[incredibleL4ever]

As  always FS great article.  This Roy Hatefest has to stop.  This is not the Liverpool Way.  The Liverpool Way is to give the manager every chance, and then, when you have decided he is not good enough, give him a few more chances.  With the exception of Ronnie Moran's caretaker spells, no Liverpool manager has been in place for fewer than 131 games.  Thats the Liverpool way.

With regard to Roy's comments, they are more ham-fisted and naive than wrong.  He is not careful about every sentence, every phrase, as to how it could be twisted or deliberately mis-interpreted.  The people who are slating Roy now for his comments were praising Rafa to the high heavens when he went on his rants, many of whom only served to motivate our opponents.

I am not a Roy fan.  I worry that NESV's investment will be wasted on hoofers and target  men.  When it appears he is getting things wrong I will critisise, just like I did when I felt the same about Rafa.  But while he remains Liverpool manager he will get my respect and when he stands up as our man in the Teahnical area, he will have my support.

[Keens]

Firstly I agree with many of FS points....

A win today could move us up the table and paint over the cracks, a loss could just the the nail in Mr. Hodgson's coffin. Either way, we will get irrational and emotive comment. Many fans like many things in life today have "short memories and long knives". We live in a world where almost everything must be NOW, instant and satisfy the need for INSTANT gratification....

People are not patient anymore....Watching my daughter grow, I realise that the is a certain process in life ...(bar the miraculous) and that is how it is....

Babies fall many times before crawling, then many times again before walking and so forth. That is the process of learning and development. It is life. Pushing a child when he or she is not ready to do so on its own will have huge consequences going forward...

I don't think Anyone believes Roy is and was a long term appointment, but Benitez was......And we should have allowed him to complete what he started, bearing in mind failure will come but in the end after many falls, his plan would have succeeded (which is a result of perserverance from fans and the club to see a long term plan through....)

Consequently, I don't think this post will have any effect bar a few....

[Des Equilibrante]

The Shanks thing does cut to the heart of these comments and also it cuts to the heart of why Kenny Dalglish should never be our manager again.   After Bob took over from Shanks then Shanks would call around at Melwood just to pass the time doing what he loved most, watching footy.  The problem was that such was the stature of the man the players were still referring to him as Boss.  It was undermining Paisley's authority and the club acted, harshly but correctly, by banning Shanks from Melwood.  Shanks then took to visiting Bellefield to watch the blues, hence the quote.

The club did the right thing and to contrast take a look at Man United throughout the early seventies where each successive coach was undermined by the continued presence of Matt Busby.  Liverpool post Shanks went from strength to strength.  The Mancs post Busby declined and were relegated.

I want Kenny Dalglish to be distant enough to the hands on work with the players that he can remain in some sort of Director of Football role at Anfield for as long as he wants.  You make him manager and he has to walk away at the end of that managerial tenure.  It's a huge gamble.

Cheers, makes good sense really.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

I agree with most of what your saying FS but I cant agree with that .

Rafa was his own worst enemy who fell out with every MD he has ever worked for..I dont really want to deflect from your thread which is very good and well thought out,but hardly any true LFC supporter helped to install Hodgson as manager......

They helped to create an atmosphere in which Purslow thought he could get away with it mate. 

[Dubit10]

I'm tired of thinking, talking and looking at him.

The G&H era will never truly be over until he's gone.

[BobbyDavro]

The mob now feels like they're running the show after getting rid of Hicks and Gillet.
Also, we've found our collective voice, and now won't shut up.

I think it's bollocks that we'd have been like this with Dalglish though - Roy's problem is he was never one of us, and wasn't the choice of the vast majority. We feel like he was foisted on us - and like stroppy kids (with some justification) we're kicking up a stink.

[yorkykopite]

Excellent OP - and wonderfully written.

VdM speaks the truth about Kenny too.

[Haresy77]

Sometimes I would be bemused by Rafa in both press conferences and during games but knew then and more now that there was method in it. I was willing to give Roy a chance and although I wasn't convinced he would make is title challengers I at least thought he would bring a huge slice of dignity. Can understand the team not playing well but his attitude when talking to the press has smacked of a bit of an ego trip. Wasn't expecting that at all.

[mjjason]

What you have here and what you are seeing, reading, and hearing is the nature of media, the net, and forums.  These outlets tend to only represent the extremes of any discussion.  The silent majority of fans are exactly that, silent.  I personally don't want Roy here for footballing reasons but i am not sure I have ever came on here and said Roy Out or something like that.  At least not everyday.  And I am sure most average fans are that way for a wide range of issues.  Forums and the media tend to show the extremes of any argument so reading them will bias your thinking to those ends.

I am quite sure most liverpool fans that fit what you describe are passionate about the team but will be less likely to go out and post their thoughts on the net.

[rossipersiempre]

Fats, with respect I think you're going a bit soft with age.

If I may put down my flaming torch and pitchfork for a second just to say, I'm not possessed by some "mob" mentality, whipped up into a frenzy of hatred, jumping on anything Hodgson says or is reported to say. I just want him gone, wiped from our history like H&G, never to be mentioned again. Yesterday isn't soon enough.

Once that is achieved, I'll gladly retire said torch and garden implement to the tool shed to gather rust, for I'll know that whoever we appoint under NESV, will be appointed for the right reasons, will have the right mentality (like every other post-war manager we've had with the graphic exception of Hodgson) and most importantly, will want what is best for the CLUB.

I'm fully aware of the talk about TLW and how we should never become like the desperate fickle shite we mock (e.g. Barcodes), but then sometimes the ends justify the means. This isn't some Lord of the Flies moral boundary that once crossed, we'll forever be changed, our values, our ethos, gone forever. It's merely a full-on immunological response to a truly 'foreign' invader, whose tactics and utterances are antigenic in the extreme, and who need to be eradicated for the greater good. Once that job is done, I have no doubt we can go back to what we once were. God knows we've been waiting three years, so what's a few more weeks - if that's what it takes - except something we should be brave enough to stomach.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

For those of you who have continually found the site's stance very hard to fathom then I think FS has beautifully summed much of it up.  We'll continue to lock threads needlessly attacking the manager, we will continue to delete posts doing likewise and we'll continue to give week long bans to the worst offenders.  That does not mean that we are defending the manager, we are defending, as best we can what we think this site stands for and that in some small way is our interpretation of aspects of The Liverpool Way.

If you're still confused, see my sig.

[TomDcs]

This one of them posts where i've read the op and a couple of responses but just realised that I dont need to read any more. The fact is, you're right, i'm not sure why or how we've turned into this mob. I've done it myself but it's embarassing and you're right we need to remember its all about perspective. I cant disagree or change my mind about roys ability but we need to cut him some slack and not jump on everything he says. In summary we're stuck in fight mode from the h&g era, we need to maybe just chill out a bit and do our job as 'supporters'.

[RedinExile]

There are quite a few strands to this issue aren't there?

It doesn't help when past greats like Whelan, Lawrenson, Molby, Hansen, Aldo come out with bollocks - some clearly with an agenda to oust the last manager, some just misguided/not very bright.

Leading on from this, fed by this, are the half-wit journos who spout popular myths...and again, those who are briefed by club insiders.....which leads to

.....club officials who didn't know Jack about football, replacing the best manager in 20 years with one who isn't a top club manager, but who had the backing of the senior English players. How influential SG and JC were in this process is very much an open wound, and people who think player power doesn't exist especially in times of a leadership vacuum are being in my opinion very naive. Perhaps the seeds for fan division, and people questioning 'is this TLW?' began when fuckers wearing our shirt played 'pass the coin' games during matches, and sporting white Armani suits, instead of green fucking combats that should have been representative of their attitude that day.

All the while, there were some fans ringing-up radio call-ins, writing 'manager out' letters and posting the same shit on here without any fucking logic to back it up. I said on here a while back I couldn't remember one logical argument for getting Rafa out and naming a better/equivalent replacement. Not one. Why do people air their unfounded views like this; don't they realise they sound like a dick, even if they are towing the populist line? This then descended into the 'rafa love-in'. Er...well, if there are no better options than sticking with the current captain at the helm during a hurricane, then I'd you know, stick with the current fella. It's common sense - something almost universally lacking in the media and ex-players. Jason McAteer and Thommo, Barnes and Kenny - whilst I don't agree with everything they say - don't tend to come out with made-up shite like the others.

The good thing about Liverpool is that you couldn't used to pull the wool over peoples eyes - not militancy for the sake of it, just refreshing honesty. It often seems now people want their opinion to be in line with everyone else because they are a sheep, or they just cannot be arsed getting-up for the game/singing. I do manage to get to a few games every season (more aways in the recent past) and the number of fellas who just moan like fuck for the whole fucking game, shouting stupid shite while their tiny-cocked chums giggle with glee is a fucking embarassment. Mate, if you have to stuff your face and walk out the game every twenty fucking minutes get a big enough sausage fucking roll to keep yourself quiet, if they make one that big.

All is not lost though, nowhere near it. The fight was fought to oust the last owners and it worked; helped mostly by their own incompetence it has to be said. Following on from Moores who couldn't use Google because he can't turn a PC on, and took George's word for it that Tom was a good guy. And Rick Parry fucking-up transfers. Actually, when you think about it, it's an absolute fucking miracle we haven't joined the list of casualties like Leeds and Forest. You can be sure if we do, the only times you'll hear from those partly culpable will be things like the 'It wasn't my fault' letter from good old Davy Moores.

So you can see, we can't trust the (ex)-board, the players, the ex-players - who does that leave us with?
...wait for it...the supporters. It doesn't matter that some love Babel, whilst some think he's lousy; that people sing Kuyt's praises yet others think he's a slow workhouse with no first touch. These are great debates and should never end, otherwise it would be easy to list a top five of all time players; opinions are a main part of the fun. But it does fucking matter if; (i) we have owners bleeding us dry; (ii) it does fucking matter if we have a manager cocooned from criticism by his mates, twisting facts, pissing-off and on players, detached from the fans and indulging in revisionism of what was our best recent years - some may be stupid and easily led, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time. And; (iii) no-one, no-one player, is now or ever will be bigger than Liverpool Football Club - legends are best respected by putting them out to grass long before they become a shadow of their former selves.

It's my opinion we have made a good start on the first point, but need to finish the job on (ii) and (iii) before we can wipe the slate clean and fight again.

[Ultimate Bromance]

That melwood swipe has done it for me. I won't say more, but... that's it. That's just fucking it. Gone from voicing my discontent to silent rage and hatred.

[Hazell]

That melwood swipe has done it for me. I won't say more, but... that's it. That's just fucking it. Gone from voicing my discontent to silent rage and hatred.

There wasn't a call for it was there? That's what I'm confused about. A lot of the other things he has said were (in my opinion) wrong but this just smacks of bitterness.

[vicgill]

I took to a bit of googling, whereupon I came across these words of Shanks.

"I have been received more warmly by Everton than I have by Liverpool. It is scandalous that I should have to write these things about the club that I helped build into what it is today."

Certainly food for my thought.

He was talking about the board of directors, certainly not the fans. He lived very near the  Everton training ground and was good friends with the groundsman, Dougie Rose.

[rossipersiempre]

That melwood swipe has done it for me. I won't say more, but... that's it. That's just fucking it. Gone from voicing my discontent to silent rage and hatred.

For me, it was probably shamefully and cynically citing TLW as the basis for his pre-derby plea for clemency under NESV.

But the mockery he made of the sacking of Rijkaard, whilst the man was burying his father, was to me not only unprofessional but sickening in the extreme.

[John C]

  The only permanent thing at the club is us,
 

I love that line FS. You’re a philosopher in the making mate.

  Rafa's backers used to dive all over his detractors whenever they used media  driven bilge to attack him.
 

It had nothing to do with the media FS. We witnessed some poor, poor,  uninspired displays over the full season mate. Often RAWK couldn’t even be our  outlet for complaint because you’re right, people did jump all over the  observers. I recall one poster complaining about another when he said something  like “all you do is crash threads to support the manager without justice”.
Anyway, great post mate and some brilliant subsequent  contributions from the sensible guys including rossipersempre, it’s a pity  others just used the thread to underline their hatred towards the manager. People also need to read VdM's posts - you're not going to find more sense anywhere.

[Discipline]

Also add in the fact that that NESW is looking at long term. Roy is too old to fit that criteria.

But, once again, very nice read.

[tbonejones]

Thanks mate

[underdog]

But will changing the manager tomorrow change this? All over this site there are all sorts of ridiculous notions about who shot Rafa, it was us. Attacking his successor before day one, if we succeed in forcing out a second manager in 6 months, how long does the next one get? Are we creating our own Newcastle?

Would we be able to appoint a Paisley these days with our fans? Would we be able to appoint a Fagan or even a Kenny? None of these had any top line managerial experience, just experience of the club, honestly believe they wouldn't be given five minutes now before we turned on them for naivity, lack of experience or something else. The only thing that they would have going would be respect for their history, and, to be honest, their doesn't seem to be much of that around these days.

I'm not saying that Roy shoudl be given x or y period of time, but his days were numbered before they began, I don't see the next fella having anything different unless there is a massive change of attitude. We are deteriating in a vicious circle, and we, as much as anybody at the club need to do something to get out of it.

I think you have the majority of us (if not supporters in general) wrong, we don't want Roy out just because of the low points tally, it's the style in which we're not winning points. It's how he has us play, the fact he doesn't understand us as a club, that he treats us as he did Fulham, it's how he has little interest in using youth, how he will freeze out players if they don't fit his plans even though they're better than what he has in the team, the transfers of journey men players etc.

This isn't just about points, it's about a hell of a lot more than that. So yes Kenny, Fagan, Shanks etc would all get time with the same point tally because they simply got us as a club, what were about and where we wanted to be.

[andyrol]

i wont dare presume what the majority of liverpool fans want but i would still be prepared to give roy a chance IF he both changes his tactics and footballing philosophy and stopped talking total shite in press conferences. i think however both these are way beyond happening therefore for ther good of the club it would probably be better if he went. i cant see him resigning so that puts a lot of pressure on NESV to do the right thing for the long term future of liverpool and to do it in the right way and at the right time.

[Sr Harvest Fiields]

its like he sees himself as some footballing genius. granted he has experience but not enough for this job and he media skills are as good Poulsen. As he reads these type of sites you think he would get the message. i wont resort to calling him names etc because i dont know the man personally so i cant say , but for sheer media arrogance and inept tactics the guy has lost the plot. for sure,no?

[Matt8Pie]

For me, it was probably shamefully and cynically citing TLW as the basis for his pre-derby plea for clemency under NESV.

But the mockery he made of the sacking of Rijkaard, whilst the man was burying his father, was to me not only unprofessional but sickening in the extreme.

I read somewhere that Rijkaard left Gala because of his discontent with the people above him, the lack of investment and quality players leaving. If that's true, it shows what a media frenzy there was due to him under-performing and hearing the Liverpool job was calling.

I've made my feelings known about Roy to often on these boards and to people around me and quite frankly, I'm tired of explaining to people that it's not Rafa's fault we're in the relegation zone, it's not because our squad is rubbish, it's not because players want to leave, etc, etc. I'm tired of watching the man sit there wide-eyed like a rabbit in headlights and biting his nails while the team I love and support are getting their arses handed to them by players who aren't even fit to tie their boots. I'm tired of waking up and reading some drivel on these boards that Roy has splurted out once again to undermine the club I cherish and the players I adore. I'm tired of the feeling that a poison is still in our club and the players I love seeing wear the red shirt with smiles on their faces are going to be cut loose because of the blatant inadequacies of the man in charge. I'm tired of having the feeling that "if we lose, at least..." and I'm mortified that pre-game, there isn't that bastion-like defence of our club that we once had that we are Liverpool and we'll destroy you for 90 minutes no matter who you are.

Roy has to go. End of. And I'm not hunting the man just because we're not performing at the moment. I'm hunting the man because, as Fat Scouser's thread title so relevantly says, there is a rot running deep within Anfield and as long as this man continues, it will only get worse.

[Bonaqua]

I think you have the majority of us (if not supporters in general) wrong, we don't want Roy out just because of the low points tally, it's the style in which we're not winning points. It's how he has us play, the fact he doesn't understand us as a club, that he treats us as he did Fulham, it's how he has little interest in using youth, how he will freeze out players if they don't fit his plans even though they're better than what he has in the team, the transfers of journey men players etc.

This isn't just about points, it's about a hell of a lot more than that. So yes Kenny, Fagan, Shanks etc would all get time with the same point tally because they simply got us as a club, what were about and where we wanted to be.

But don`t you think he can learn, and wants to learn, how to get us as a club? And given time and support learn to make us play in a style that we like?
Nah..he`s just a stubborn old fool. Sorry, I have to stop smoking my own socks.

[xerxes1]

The Shanks thing does cut to the heart of these comments and also it cuts to the heart of why Kenny Dalglish should never be our manager again.   After Bob took over from Shanks then Shanks would call around at Melwood just to pass the time doing what he loved most, watching footy.  The problem was that such was the stature of the man the players were still referring to him as Boss.  It was undermining Paisley's authority and the club acted, harshly but correctly, by banning Shanks from Melwood.  Shanks then took to visiting Bellefield to watch the blues, hence the quote.

The club did the right thing and to contrast take a look at Man United throughout the early seventies where each successive coach was undermined by the continued presence of Matt Busby.  Liverpool post Shanks went from strength to strength.  The Mancs post Busby declined and were relegated.

I want Kenny Dalglish to be distant enough to the hands on work with the players that he can remain in some sort of Director of Football role at Anfield for as long as he wants.  You make him manager and he has to walk away at the end of that managerial tenure.  It's a huge gamble.

Another vote for Fat Scouser’s post, and Kev’s above.

Although I too have become increasingly worried about what Roy’s statements say about his mind set, I am still cautious about an immediate change.

I respect those that think that anyone would be better than Roy, but disagree. Our support loves symbols , then hangs all manner of baggage on that hook. Rafa was (is) a very fine manager, he was not the HQ of the resistance to G&H, Purslow  was a moneyman out of his depth as MD, he was not Rafa’s nemesis, Broughton  came in to do a job, and very wisely, did it and left ( but still took stick as a G&H stooge). Roy is not the root of all of our problems – he is a symptom.

NESV have started OK, but need time. Forcing the crisis of a managerial change on them within weeks of their taking over was, and is, madness. Roy took the job knowing that new owners would probably replace him. He knew and knows the score . Taking some time to get this right is in everyone’s interests.

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

i will tend not to bandwagon jump on issues like showing serious weak body language on the bench or his erratic statements int he press opps i just have.

i think ive stuck just to the results side at the moment.

i never wanted him

im a firm beliver that your side is only as good as the manager you have in charge.
if you pick a manager who isnt in the top bracket or at least a good contender for the top bracket you are always likely to have problems at some stage.....which leads to a transitional period.

this happens at most clubs.

yes some get through because they have an exceptional array of talent (barca real) or resources.
as we are not competing on those terms we have to make sure our manager is of the above material.

anyways waffling on
yes its our fault

as is building up players to bigger than club status.....

we need to take a serious look at ourselves and re install the Liverpool way.

[Vulmea]

again - i'd like to agree with the OP but....

If  the only problem was the manager(results) not being good enough then I'd still be behind him and it would be clear to me that the fans whatever their misgivings should be behind him

It isn't that simple though

I didn't care who we got in when Rafa left - the owners where my only real focus - I thought probably like the Board that Roy would be uninspiring but a safe pair of hands - we'd play defensively but be solid - he'd be a quietly spoken honest statesman, able to handle the press - a bit boring but humble and supportive of the traditions of the club. I started to feel uneasy though when his role and the spin began.

He has largely been the opposite of what I thought he'd be - dishonest, arrogant, rude, machiavellian, blaming everybody but himself and an unsafe pair of hands, who far from embracing the Liverpool Way is trying to reinvent it as some form of also ran mentality.

I dont agree with the swearing and personal abuse because that just demeans us the supporters - but what are the fans to do in the current ciircumstances - we need some form of dignified way of lettting him know that the problem is him. 

He has largely been proteccted by his friends  and the media who prefer to blame Benitez, and only recently the owners and senior players.

He needs to take responsibility for his mistakes, he needs to emerse himself in Liverpool,he needs to listen and realise he has more to learn than his 35 years have taught him - he's approached this job in exactly the wrong way - he's approached it as though he has nothing to learn, if NESV are listening then they need to understand that his quietly spoken wisdom is generally inappropriate and 20 years out of date - that they need a clever and forward thinking man.

The  question for me is how do the fans either educate Roy to be the manager we need or educate NESV to get rid of him?

[kjh1965]

To come home from the local with a few schooners under the belt and read this was the norm on a sunday night at 9-30........But to see FS signing off on  this thread was suprising!....Nice post sir that I read it all the way through....and tend to agree with most of it..Makes a diff from all  the shite I do read at this time of night  and cant be arsed to comment on...thank you..

[The Grinch]

For those of you who have continually found the site's stance very hard to fathom then I think FS has beautifully summed much of it up.  We'll continue to lock threads needlessly attacking the manager, we will continue to delete posts doing likewise and we'll continue to give week long bans to the worst offenders.  That does not mean that we are defending the manager, we are defending, as best we can what we think this site stands for and that in some small way is our interpretation of aspects of The Liverpool Way.

If you're still confused, see my sig.

The problem for me is that it should be a two way street, it should be collective responsibility, we should all be pulling in the same direction. If Roy wants the fans to stop criticising him then shouldn't he stop attacking everyone around him.

He has continually slaughtered the last manager, has slaughtered his own players in the press, slaughtered members of his coaching staff, slaughtered the fans protesting against Hicks and Gillet, slaughtered the press, slaughtered forums like this and has now used the Ferguson tactic of dragging someone else into his fight.

As for bringing up the Liverpool Way, that is all about everyone taking the praise in the good times and closing rank when things aren't going well. Not spouting off about I have done this and I have done that and then machine gunning your own troops when things take a turn for the worst.

To Roy the Liverpool Way that was the thing that prevented him and his cronies the likes of Don Howe and Dave Sexton from taking their rightful place as tactical guru's and managerial forward thinkers.

[underdog]

But don`t you think he can learn, and wants to learn, how to get us as a club? And given time and support learn to make us play in a style that we like?
Nah..he`s just a stubborn old fool. Sorry, I have to stop smoking my own socks.

He quite obviously doesn't no, infact he told us he doesn't. Can't teach an old dog new tricks and all that. The most vulgar thing for me is during all the interviews he mentions his pay off, one eye on the bank at all times I'd prefer both eyes be on his team, that way he may know that he had strikers in the team or if Torres prefers playing with another striker or not.