Topic: Glazer debt drains Manchester United (Not nearly 1 billion in new deals)

[Livid]

Your recent record has been distorted by Ronaldo. He masked a lot of midfield deficiencies. His purple patch pretty well encapsulated all the trophies since Keane left (bar one League Cup).

What midfield deficiencies did we have during 'The Ronaldo Years'?

[Lent§]

What midfield deficiencies did we have during 'The Ronaldo Years'?

Michael Carrick and Anderson. LOL. Both utter shit.

[Livid]

Michael Carrick and Anderson. LOL. Both utter shit.

Anderson had fairly little to do with the three title winning seasons. Carrick may be shit now but he was vital for us during those years.

[Crosby Nick]

Anderson had fairly little to do with the three title winning seasons. Carrick may be shit now but he was vital for us during those years.

Has he changed or is it the players around him. Back then you had Ronaldo and Rooney, then added Tevez, then added Berbatov. Carrick kept it nice and simple and your star players made the difference. Now that you have lost a couple of them is his ‘passiveness’ (for want of a better word) being exposed or has he actually deteriorated as a player?

[Fanxxxxtastic]

What the hell has happened to Owen Hargreaves?  When is he due to earn his keep again?

[vitri]

Has he changed or is it the players around him. Back then you had Ronaldo and Rooney, then added Tevez, then added Berbatov. Carrick kept it nice and simple and your star players made the difference. Now that you have lost a couple of them is his ‘passiveness’ (for want of a better word) being exposed or has he actually deteriorated as a player?

I've always said Carrick is the player equivalent of a fair weather fan, even back when he was "good". He can play a great forward game, but only when his side are comfortably on top and not being pressured. You're right: he hasn't changed, but the machine he's a part of has.

I think it's also to do with the inevitable "finding out" of weaknesses by the opposition.

[Livid]

Has he changed or is it the players around him. Back then you had Ronaldo and Rooney, then added Tevez, then added Berbatov. Carrick kept it nice and simple and your star players made the difference. Now that you have lost a couple of them is his ‘passiveness’ (for want of a better word) being exposed or has he actually deteriorated as a player?

He has definitely deteriorated to a certain extent. His was an accurate, if often unambitious, passer but now he loses the ball far more. His confidence also looks shot, he hasn't been the same player since the Rome final. Compare that with Scholes and you see how important mentality is in a player.
The forward players aren't really the key, it's his midfield partners. He's a little bit in awe of Scholes, and defers to him constantly. When the pressure is on him to dictate play he often hides. That's why we need a creative midfielder.
He's still ok at sitting, intercepting and playing it simple but he can't be relied on for anything more progressive.

[Grobbelrevell]

I thought I would check out Red issue to see what they had to say about Gills statement I thought it would be like the threads on here when we were trying to get G+H out of the club.

I was a bit shocked a lot were saying you couldn't argue with what Gill said and he is a great chief executive.

Seems like the owners are winning.

I find that whole scenario baffling to be quite honest. I just fail to understand how their support are so accepting of the Glazers syphoning millions out of the club in dividends and interest payments that could (and should) be being invested into the club and the team. If you speak to the majority of their support they don't even think there's a problem because it's "maintainable". I suppose that's another question and it may be (but for how much longer I would ask), but that's not really the point. The point is, the Glazers are taking money out of the club having put virtually nothing in themselves, meanwhile the squad appears to be ageing and depreciating in quality to a fairly rapid degree due to the simultaneous lack of investment. I can't remember a more average United team to be quite honest.

Where did that £80m from Ronaldo go?

What's even more bewildering for me though, is the apparent support for the Glazers from Whiskey Nose himself. I know to United fans he's almost untouchable and as such, he's unlikely to receive criticism to any real extent, but really? How he of all people could come out and publically support the people draining the club of valuable resources I just can't understand.

Would we have accepted the same thing from Rafa? Or even Kenny? I'm not sure we would have.

Will United invest in the summer to the extent that they evidently need to? Or will Whiskey Nose come out again and state that "the money is available" but he "has faith in his squad"? Im not sure. But if they don't start investing I can honestly see them struggling to keep up with the likes of City before too long. If that happened and with the emergence of Spurs, along with Chelsea and Arsenal (and hopefully a recovery from ourselves), what would happen should they find themselves in a position whereby they miss out on the top four? How long with the debt remain manageable then? How long will those "333million" 'supporters' remain loyal before they move on to the latest trend?

Success has blinded them in my opinion. If that dries up, which you could quite easily see happening in the coming years unless they invest in the playing staff to a fair degree, consistently, then I think we will suddenly see much more of a reaction. And where will Whiskey Nose's loyalties lie then?

I don't like to see any club drowning in debt and that includes United, but it's interesting viewing none the less.

[Dubit10]

I find that whole scenario baffling to be quite honest. I just fail to understand how their support are so accepting of the Glazers syphoning millions out of the club in dividends and interest payments that could (and should) be being invested into the club and the team. If you speak to the majority of their support they don't even think there's a problem because it's "maintainable". I suppose that's another question and it may be (but for how much longer I would ask), but that's not really the point. The point is, the Glazers are taking money out of the club having put virtually nothing in themselves, meanwhile the squad appears to be ageing and depreciating in quality to a fairly rapid degree due to the simultaneous lack of investment. I can't remember a more average United team to be quite honest.

Where did that £80m from Ronaldo go?

What's even more bewildering for me though, is the apparent support for the Glazers from Whiskey Nose himself. I know to United fans he's almost untouchable and as such, he's unlikely to receive criticism to any real extent, but really? How he of all people could come out and publically support the people draining the club of valuable resources I just can't understand.

Would we have accepted the same thing from Rafa? Or even Kenny? I'm not sure we would have.

Will United invest in the summer to the extent that they evidently need to? Or will Whiskey Nose come out again and state that "the money is available" but he "has faith in his squad"? Im not sure. But if they don't start investing I can honestly see them struggling to keep up with the likes of City before too long. If that happened and with the emergence of Spurs, along with Chelsea and Arsenal (and hopefully a recovery from ourselves), what would happen should they find themselves in a position whereby they miss out on the top four? How long with the debt remain manageable then? How long will those "333million" 'supporters' remain loyal before they move on to the latest trend?

Success has blinded them in my opinion. If that dries up, which you could quite easily see happening in the coming years unless they invest in the playing staff to a fair degree, consistently, then I think we will suddenly see much more of a reaction. And where will Whiskey Nose's loyalties lie then?

I don't like to see any club drowning in debt and that includes United, but it's interesting viewing none the less.

I love to see them drowning in debt. I hope it breaks the club and they end up worse than Leeds United. Horrible fans,manager,players etc...

[andyrol]

im starting to believe more and more that slur will leave at the end of the season, whether they win 19 or not. this media thing that the whole club has become embroiled with i think is a very handy excuse for him to go, 'the job has become too impossible to do' ' the press have made it too hard to do my job' etc etc. slur is arrogant and big headed but also knows when his team is getting worse, in the past he went out and threw money ( big money as well, how many over £20 million players do they have?) at the squad, if he knows he wont be able to do this, he might go using the media as a smokescreen, he'll then, when he's left, lay into the glazers saying with the press and the yanks it was impossible to do his job, therefore saving his 'reputation' with the LMA et al.

[Walshy®]

Green and Gold, you'll do as you're told.

[scared_person]

I find that whole scenario baffling to be quite honest. I just fail to understand how their support are so accepting of the Glazers syphoning millions out of the club in dividends and interest payments that could (and should) be being invested into the club and the team. If you speak to the majority of their support they don't even think there's a problem because it's "maintainable". I suppose that's another question and it may be (but for how much longer I would ask), but that's not really the point. The point is, the Glazers are taking money out of the club having put virtually nothing in themselves, meanwhile the squad appears to be ageing and depreciating in quality to a fairly rapid degree due to the simultaneous lack of investment. I can't remember a more average United team to be quite honest.

Where did that £80m from Ronaldo go?

What's even more bewildering for me though, is the apparent support for the Glazers from Whiskey Nose himself. I know to United fans he's almost untouchable and as such, he's unlikely to receive criticism to any real extent, but really? How he of all people could come out and publically support the people draining the club of valuable resources I just can't understand.

Would we have accepted the same thing from Rafa? Or even Kenny? I'm not sure we would have.

Will United invest in the summer to the extent that they evidently need to? Or will Whiskey Nose come out again and state that "the money is available" but he "has faith in his squad"? Im not sure. But if they don't start investing I can honestly see them struggling to keep up with the likes of City before too long. If that happened and with the emergence of Spurs, along with Chelsea and Arsenal (and hopefully a recovery from ourselves), what would happen should they find themselves in a position whereby they miss out on the top four? How long with the debt remain manageable then? How long will those "333million" 'supporters' remain loyal before they move on to the latest trend?

Success has blinded them in my opinion. If that dries up, which you could quite easily see happening in the coming years unless they invest in the playing staff to a fair degree, consistently, then I think we will suddenly see much more of a reaction. And where will Whiskey Nose's loyalties lie then?

I don't like to see any club drowning in debt and that includes United, but it's interesting viewing none the less.

The success point is certainly a major one. I mean how big were our protests when we so nearly won the title in 2009? They only really gathered momentum in 2010 when our season went down the toilet (I'm not knocking those who were there from the start, just pointing out that the critical mass of support only gathered towards the end of last season).

Another factor is that there is no weakness for MUST to attack. Our particular vermin had the threat of RBS hanging over them, which gave us a chink in the armour to dig at, the glazers seem to have no such problem. Unfortunately for the mancs the only time they will have that problem is if they don't make the CL places.

[Lent§]

What the hell has happened to Owen Hargreaves?  When is he due to earn his keep again?

He'll never play again

[Andy @ Allerton]

He'll never play again

If you could unglue the 20 footballers and not be too careful about it then stuck all the bits together in a haphazard way, you'd get one Hargreaves

[Lent§]

I think you've been sniffing glue this aft Andy

[Mark Walters]

im starting to believe more and more that slur will leave at the end of the season, whether they win 19 or not. this media thing that the whole club has become embroiled with i think is a very handy excuse for him to go, 'the job has become too impossible to do' ' the press have made it too hard to do my job' etc etc. slur is arrogant and big headed but also knows when his team is getting worse, in the past he went out and threw money ( big money as well, how many over £20 million players do they have?) at the squad, if he knows he wont be able to do this, he might go using the media as a smokescreen, he'll then, when he's left, lay into the glazers saying with the press and the yanks it was impossible to do his job, therefore saving his 'reputation' with the LMA et al.

You're hopeful.  In my opinion, he'll die in that dugout.

[Andy @ Allerton]

I think you've been sniffing glue this aft Andy

I'm on Nightnurse.

[Fanxxxxtastic]

He'll never play again

That was £17 million well spent then for a total of 42 appearances.

[R.A.La]

That was £17 million well spent then for a total of 42 appearances.

Bacon face bought him whilst he was injured.

He's got to have been on a minimum of £50k per week aswell. Funny how he is never mentioned in the media, but look at the shit Rafa got for buying an injured player in AA.

[redtel]

I'm on Nightnurse.

mmmm........working a different shift is she?

Lucky you 

[wacko]

That was £17 million well spent then for a total of 42 appearances.

Especially as they could have picked him up on a Bosman a matter of months earlier.

The success point is certainly a major one. I mean how big were our protests when we so nearly won the title in 2009? They only really gathered momentum in 2010 when our season went down the toilet (I'm not knocking those who were there from the start, just pointing out that the critical mass of support only gathered towards the end of last season).

Another factor is that there is no weakness for MUST to attack. Our particular vermin had the threat of RBS hanging over them, which gave us a chink in the armour to dig at, the glazers seem to have no such problem. Unfortunately for the mancs the only time they will have that problem is if they don't make the CL places.

ManU might well find themselves in exactly the same position once the bonds need to be repaid (what is it? Half a billion in one go?)

There's no way they'll go tits-up like Leeds because plenty would snap up the club for a few hundred million, and the club itself, like Liverpool, is a viable going concern hobbled by owner-incurred debt (as opposed to the club-led overspending that sank Leeds), leaving them at little risk of a penalty from the FA.

The main threat is their not having the oodles of cash to spend on the squad that they have had over the last 15 years. The competition for the CL places is huge these days, and a season out of the CL could really bollocks up the financial plans.

[Crosby Nick]

Bacon face bought him whilst he was injured.

He's got to have been on a minimum of £50k per week aswell. Funny how he is never mentioned in the media, but look at the shit Rafa got for buying an injured player in AA.

I hate to say it but Hargreaves did play a pivotal role the season the won the League and European Cup. It’s still not value for money but I guess more slack gets cut when that happens. His injury problems were well documented when they signed him though.

[Trada]

Manchester United owners report £108m loss

By Martyn Ziegler, PA

Manchester United's owners made a £108.9million loss last year, according to their accounts.

The loss by Red Football Joint Venture, the Glazer family's parent company that owns United, include some one-off costs from setting up the £526million bond scheme last year to replace their bank loans, according to accounts filed at Companies House.

The lack of income from selling players also contributed to the loss for the year ending June 30, 2010 - the previous year the company had recorded £21million profit thanks largely to the £80million sale of Cristiano Ronaldo.

Last year's losses included £30.2million interest on their £220million payment in kind (PIK) loans which have since been paid off.

United's club accounts were published in October and revealed losses of £83.6million - the PIK interest payment is not included in the club accounts - but club chief executive David Gill said then there was £165million in the club's bank account and that they were in a healthy position.

Gill said in October: "We have money in the bank so there is zero pressure on that, no pressure at all to sell any star player.

"The philosophy is to retain and attract the best players. We have £165million in the bank but in some ways we would prefer to have £80million in the bank and Ronaldo on the pitch."

The highest loss recorded by a Premier League club was Chelsea's £132million in 2005.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/manchester-united-owners-report-108m-loss-2249552.html

[Something Else]

sounds only a matter of time unless things change sharpish for United

[JackWard33]

It's a really murky picture over there

They haven't said how the PIK loans were paid off or what vehicle was used to do that.
Also if they do have 165 million in the bank in cash it begs the question why

[Red Genius]

How does their situation (producing regular losses) affect the FFP rules that will be introduced?

[Ray K]

Interesting. I would have thought that the Glazers would be dying to sell up to Qatar or some other shower based on those figures, but that talk seems to have gone quiet.

I wonder how this will pan out in terms of UEFA's Financial Fair Play. I guess they can omit the one-off figures for the bond scheme set-up, but you're still talking probably in the region of £70 mill loss.
Overall debt £590million     

I'll wait for the Swiss Ramble blog to make sense of these figures.

[Crosby Nick]

Twigg will be along soon enough to tell us all that there's nothing to worry about.

[Cpt_Reina]

Twigg will be along soon enough to tell us all that there's nothing to worry about.

Who's worrying 

[vitri]

Twigg will be along soon enough to tell us all that there's nothing to worry about.

Well there clearly isn't. I mean, they still have to spend the £80m war chest from the Ronaldo sale, remember. 

[itsgunnabebarnes!]

No one has a clue how bad it is.

[mbyx6cg2]

Twigg will be along soon enough to tell us all that there's nothing to worry about.

Speaking of clueless mancs, anyone seen JoeD recently?

[jaffod]

So what does it all really mean? We've been hearing these reports for a few years now yet there they are - top of the league, CL quarter finals, FA cup semi - can't they just fucking fall into oblivion FFS!

[gazzalfc]

This will be played down by the press pretty easily.

They still have cash rolling in due to a massive stadium, expensive corporate boxes, season tickets with compulsory auto-cup scheme etc.

But the most important thing is a set of fans who have no intent of rocking the boat at the highest levels of the club.

'Green and Gold. You do as your told.'

And as long as they keep on winning and going on long cup runs it will always stay that way.

Cant wait for 1 off season when whiskey nose cashes in his bus pass. Lets see how their fans react.

[Red Genius]

Everytime i see this thread my first though is to D:Ream - Things can only get better.

Lets hope the next financial year they make a loss of £150m!

[VamosLiverpool]

And the biggest joke is that they will spend £100m this summer.

[trequartista]

Meh they could field a reserve 11 and Ferguson would still get them to challenge and they probably win the league have to admire their winning mentality the c*nts. 4th league title in 5 years astonishing for such dominance with the likes of chelsea and city blowing cash e.t.c

[Alonso]

Imagine if they had a shocker of a season and missed out on the Champions League. They'd be doomed.

Will never happen with Ferguson though. They'll always be challenging for the title whilst he's in charge.

[Azi]

Imagine if they had a shocker of a season and missed out on the Champions League. They'd be doomed.

Will never happen with Ferguson though. They'll always be challenging for the title whilst he's in charge.

if fergie wins number 19 this year i can seriously think next year will be his last or if they win the treble this year i think he will just pack it in

[TopKopster]

That was £17 million well spent then for a total of 42 appearances.

Brilliantly terrible signing, don't ever let a manc take the piss out of any player we've ever signed.
70 grand a week since may 2007 and signed for 17 million quid. (Good old Wikipedia)

I make that just shy of 31 million plus physio bills or 736 grand per appearance

Bacon face bought him whilst he was injured.

He's got to have been on a minimum of £50k per week aswell. Funny how he is never mentioned in the media, but look at the shit Rafa got for buying an injured player in AA.

Rafa you say?