Topic: Glazer debt drains Manchester United (Not nearly 1 billion in new deals)

[rowan_d]

Wouldn't want Manchester United to go under, but I won't pretend that I wouldn't enjoy seeing them in the Championship for a season or two

Seems like we'll be there before them though

[Stussy]

Not only that, had we not been in the same shit they would be getting next to no sympathy at all.

I have sympathy for them, but I'm not going to abuse one of our own who doesn't.

This relationship with them is complex.

[RossoBianchi]

http://andersred.blogspot.com/2010/10/manchester-united-results-200910-first.html

This guy thinks they aren't in financial danger - but they are wasting a lot of money... Interesting..

I know Andy personally, and he - more than anyone - is well aware of the potential financial crisis we face if things continue like they are.

[Chivasino]

i love the rivalry with them and its something i would not want to go away, so whilst I dont wish that whisky nosed twat and his inbred kids any luck I'd rather they went away into mid table mediocrity.

Which is where I am on this.

[Raz]

Anyone who wishes what my football club has gone through the last few years, on another team, is a massive, massive twat.

[Bennekov]

Anyone who wishes what my football club has gone through the last few years, on another team, is a massive, massive twat.

Couldn't agree more! As much as I hate them I would miss the matches v them and the tension and nerve that come with the games.

[RossoBianchi]

Charitable donations during the year amounted to £25,000 (2009: £380,161).

Even the local charities suffer from Glazernomics.

[redway101]

I don't wish it on them personally, I'd rather see them fail on the pitch (to us) rather than off it. I can't help feeling that there is a huge delusional factor going on with the manc support interpreting these figures. It looks like they are just covering the cost of the leverage and they keep trotting out the 'best run business' etc. Trouble is a couple of poor seasons, failing to qualify for the CL and it all comes crashing down. I firmly believe that it may take longer, they have further to fall but ultimately a couple of seaons from now we'll be reading exactly same headlines about Man U as we've read about us over the past couple of months.

Bottom line is they have a hugely talented manager (I hate to say it) who is very near the end of his reign. They have a core squad that is getting on a bit to say the least and the club is no longer in a position to invest substantially in playing staff given their necessity to service their debt (and potentially the Glazer's wider business debt). Their transfer activity has changed substantially over the past couple of years, apparently no value in the market or are £25 million transfers off the table now?

[Johnnowhite]

Well, maybe it's time for many clubs to go back to basics ...for the second or third time of asking?
 We've done it before as has your club - and I seem to recall it did neither of us any harm growing our own - with a bit of polish applied from external signings!!

These imports of wadges of journeymen Africans , Frenchmen with the occasional East European thrown in can't go on indefinitely.

[Lent§]

Well, maybe it's time for many clubs to go back to basics ...for the second or third time of asking?
 We've done it before as has your club - and I seem to recall it did neither of us any harm growing our own - with a bit of polish applied from external signings!!

These imports of wadges of journeymen Africans , Frenchmen with the occasional East European thrown in can't go on indefinitely.

It's a romantic idea, but there simply aren't the British players around these days, outside of 3 or 4 England players most are just average, there are no Scottish players, likewise Welsh and Irish that are genuinely top drawer like there has been in the past. British football is suffering from a lack of adequate coaches at all levels more than the fact that clubs are signing foreign players.

[Stussy]

Some mancs in this Guardian thread think they're not doing that badly, in contrast to us.

ManU have debts of £745m
£225m PIK at 16.5% and a £520m Bond at (say) 8.0%.

Annual Interest = £79m
Annual Operating Profit £100m
Result? = No real problem that I can see.

No it's not an ideal situation - but actually the PIK debt will be rolled over at a much lower interest rate very soon - because an Operating Profit of £100m demonstrates there isn't much risk there (unlike Liverpool)

I actually believe Fergie when he says he's not got a cash problem in the transfer market.
Truth is he has never really been able to splash the cash in a Chelsea-esk manner - and has never needed to. He cannot compete with City - and nor can anyone else - he'd have been mad to splash the cash and pay premiums in the Summer just gone, he probably had to pay £5m extra for Berbatov thansk to City and he won't allow that to happen again.
He will spend big in Summer 2011 - and the Board won't stop him.

Interesting reading this thread:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/oct/08/manchester-united-losses?showallcomments=true#comment-7918672

[Lent§]

I'm interested to hear where they think the money's coming from for their big summer 2011? Fools.

[SP]

Some mancs in this Guardian thread think they're not doing that badly, in contrast to us.


Interesting reading this thread:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/oct/08/manchester-united-losses?showallcomments=true#comment-7918672

I initially read that URL as shallowcomments.

[Stussy]

Its OK, because they're not like Liverpool (we are the benchmark), and so there's comfort in that.

Merchandising. Increased stadium capacity and modernisation. Globally recognised players like Dung Fan Zoo. In short, solid fundermental infrastructure. All of which remains to this day the key assets of the club. Including of course its relative on pitch success. This is primarily why its easy to understand the dynamics of Utd being entirely different from the woes that currently beset Liverpool FC. I said elsewhere that Liverpool FC needs a lick of paint all over and probably a complete change in philosophy and a wholesale abandonment of all that Shankly boot room folklore. The reason why Utd have so much following across the globe and Surrey is precisely cos the aspiring classes can easily identify with its ambitions. With Liverpool is all about the scouse. which would be fine if the Chinese understood scouse.

(From early in that Guardian thread)

[redway101]

I'm interested to hear where they think the money's coming from for their big summer 2011? Fools.

Yep £21 million profit doesn't leave a huge amount for transfers particularly against the cost of running the club, additional wages and however much the Glazer's try to take out of the club. 2016 for refinance isn't that far away either by which time their debt won't be far off 1 billion.

[The Jackal]

I initially read that URL as shallowcomments.

  same here. would be quite apt - I think they're deluded if they think nothing's wrong..

[Dr Manhattan]

You'll never be able to tell a manc they're at the start of a slippery slope though, they'll just keep denying it until it's too late. They seem to think that if a Liverpool fan says anything about their finances it's because they're jealous of them and want the mancs to be in the same boat. The reality is that I'd rather neither of us were in this position but we both are. The only reason it hasn't dawned on them yet is because we've had our problems to take the spotlight off theirs.

If we get ourselves sorted now and Man Utd don't win anything this season, you wait and see just how much everyone suddenly takes notice of their problems. I guarantee it.

[Chakan]

You'll never be able to tell a manc they're at the start of a slippery slope though, they'll just keep denying it until it's too late. They seem to think that if a Liverpool fan says anything about their finances it's because they're jealous of them and want the mancs to be in the same boat. The reality is that I'd rather neither of us were in this position but we both are. The only reason it hasn't dawned on them yet is because we've had our problems to take the spotlight off theirs.

If we get ourselves sorted now and Man Utd don't win anything this season, you wait and see just how much everyone suddenly takes notice of their problems. I guarantee it.

Mate as long as they are consistently in the top 4 their problems will never get highlighted. All ours came to light when we finished 7th, suddenly there was no investment blah blah blah, it'll be the same with them.

[SP]

You'll never be able to tell a manc they're at the start of a slippery slope though, they'll just keep denying it until it's too late. They seem to think that if a Liverpool fan says anything about their finances it's because they're jealous of them and want the mancs to be in the same boat. The reality is that I'd rather neither of us were in this position but we both are. The only reason it hasn't dawned on them yet is because we've had our problems to take the spotlight off theirs.

If we get ourselves sorted now and Man Utd don't win anything this season, you wait and see just how much everyone suddenly takes notice of their problems. I guarantee it.

One of the big 4 has to be in crisis at all times. Chelsea had their crises with Maureen and Big Phil, Arsene got grief for no silverware, we got grief for being bought by shysters and having a foreign manager. Now it's the Mancs turn.

The media likes a narrative to help shift sales. We might start to get some positive press, albeit laced with barbs at the ex-manager. Curse him for picking the side to play Northampton before he was sacked.

[Dr Manhattan]

Mate as long as they are consistently in the top 4 their problems will never get highlighted. All ours came to light when we finished 7th, suddenly there was no investment blah blah blah, it'll be the same with them.

I think it's different for them in all honesty. They've consistently won titles, so if they go this year without the league title again then it'll be highlighted, top 4 or not.

You can't put a smiley face on an £80m loss and expect people to believe things are going great. The year before they 'made' £48m but that's with the sale of Ronaldo for £80m, take that away and they'd have made yet another loss of £32m. So that's £112m lost in two seasons if they hadn't sold Ronaldo, and yet their big-wigs are telling anyone who'll listen that they won't need to sell players and there's plenty of cash to spend. Sorry, but that's bollocks, you're starting to hemorrhage money.

They were the richest club in the world before the Glazers took over, and could afford to spunk £30m on teenagers. Now they're saying everything's terrific whilst losing EIGHTY MILLION QUID in a year.

[astowell1]

If they fall and we rise then I am in the fuck 'em category.

[Chakan]

I think it's different for them in all honesty. They've consistently won titles, so if they go this year without the league title again then it'll be highlighted, top 4 or not.

You can't put a smiley face on an £80m loss and expect people to believe things are going great. The year before they 'made' £48m but that's with the sale of Ronaldo for £80m, take that away and they'd have made yet another loss of £32m. So that's £112m lost in two seasons if they hadn't sold Ronaldo, and yet their big-wigs are telling anyone who'll listen that they won't need to sell players and there's plenty of cash to spend. Sorry, but that's bollocks, you're starting to hemorrhage money.

They were the richest club in the world before the Glazers took over, and could afford to spunk £30m on teenagers. Now they're saying everything's terrific whilst losing EIGHTY MILLION QUID in a year.

Not saying there aren't issues, but the average fan/supporter doesn't give a toss about the financials , as long as they performing on the pitch, it covers up the cracks off field.

[kopitecrash]

No, I would rather the Glazers releaser their grip. English football does not need parasites like them.
That said, nobody will buy them. The Glazers are going to leech Man U untill it's a corpse. No-one can afford to pay off that kind of debt and before anyone can it will see Man United tumble away and die.

And it will be a sad day for English football that a leveraged buyout on that scale was ever allowed to happen.

[Immoral King Brian Blessed]

So this 80 million loss...is that money the glazers have had to pay ouf of pocket during the year?

[Aristotle]

Has anyone else realised that a 762m debt falling on them would probably make A@A implode

[Lent§]

Has anyone else realised that a 762m debt falling on them would probably make A@A implode

He's chained himself to the road sign on Sir Matt Busby Way laughing manically

[electricghost]

"The philosophy is to retain and attract the best players. We have £165million in the bank but in some ways we would prefer to have £80million in the bank and Ronaldo on the pitch."     D. Gill


How can that be ?   
I saw in a programme about the Glazers that the tax bill for Utd is a lot less than it should be because of the losses that they make, yet they seem to have cash stashed away that is available to buy players with.

Is this not dodgy ?

[Immoral King Brian Blessed]

"The philosophy is to retain and attract the best players. We have £165million in the bank but in some ways we would prefer to have £80million in the bank and Ronaldo on the pitch."     D. Gill


How can that be ?   
I saw in a programme about the Glazers that the tax bill for Utd is a lot less than it should be because of the losses that they make, yet they seem to have cash stashed away that is available to buy players with.

Is this not dodgy ?

If it was I doubt they'd make it public knowledge.

[shambles]

Despite all the stuff about the losses, they are really stepping up their sponsorship. They're taking in £80 million and have added several more since the end of June. I'm not sure whether the report includes their new deal with Aon and it won't include new sponsors DHL and Arctic Ice.
I hope the new owners really work on that when they come in because it's such an important area that we can take advantage of, because Liverpool FC is a worldwide brand.

[♠Dirty Harry♠]

Fuck 'em.

I know a few (very few) good egg manc supporters who can hold a decent unbiased debate on the game etc. But a massive majority of them are complete cock smugglers, I know a few of the bellends who travel to the game and stay in LIVERPOOL, the magic c*nts.

[Rafas_Barmy_Army]

I hate them as much as anybody else but i wouldnt want them to go under. Would prefer it if they never won anything again.

Like a Manc in work said to me he doesnt want us to go bust because he would miss the derbys and the rivalry, i kinda feel the same

[AirConGipsyRed]

Please. Can someone bring back A@A.

I miss him, especially at these sad times.

He always said it was the good shit sandwich. Whilst we were fu**ed financially, at least they were too. - Here's hoping that it is light that we see at the end of the tunnel and our troubles are coming to and we can leave them to take a very large bite on their own.

[The Red Dojo]

So gerroff the thread then...

A manc, telling a Liverpool supporter to get out of a thread on a Liverpool forum...

[geoffstrong]

we need to stop trying to try to see who are the biggest twats and join together with all others fans who care about football, because if we do not get together as fans no matter which fucking club, and fight this money is god ethos, eventually you will be watching  two league football here, with no fans in the ground but wall to wall football coverage on a global basis, with players millionaires before they are old enough to shave!

Put a cap on players salaries and make sure anyone buying a club gives cast iron guarantees about the financial involvement with the club! this would be a start anyway!

[Johnnowhite]

A manc, telling a Liverpool supporter to get out of a thread on a Liverpool forum...

So do you want me to apologise for it or am I allowed to point out that the bloke had nowt to say and was posting that he had nowt to say.

So what was the point of him being in the thread in the first place? If you've got nowt to say then you stay out of the thread don't you?

[Lent§]

A manc, telling a Liverpool supporter to get out of a thread on a Liverpool forum...

Behave. If Sweden Red hates them so much he doesn't wanna type about them, what is he doing typing about them?

[Johnnowhite]

we need to stop trying to try to see who are the biggest twats and join together with all others fans who care about football, because if we do not get together as fans no matter which fucking club, and fight this money is god ethos, eventually you will be watching  two league football here, with no fans in the ground but wall to wall football coverage on a global basis, with players millionaires before they are old enough to shave!

Put a cap on players salaries and make sure anyone buying a club gives cast iron guarantees about the financial involvement with the club! this would be a start anyway!

Will some of you Scousers listen to this man's words  FFS and stop trying to score fucking mindless points off Mancs on this board who are just as pissed off with the state of our game as you are ...or if you're not you should be!

[Johnnowhite]

If they fall and we rise then I am in the fuck 'em category.

Little imagination then eh? Aw.....

Open your eyes and see what the fuck's going on around you fella. ......whilst there's still something to see.......[

[Mouth]

Behave. If Sweden Red hates them so much he doesn't wanna type about them, what is he doing typing about them?

He was expressing that he hates them, and that he hates them so much he cant be bothered to say more than he hates them, he is allowed.

Love it we are doing great, we fuck everyone over in terms of money we win the league all the time, fuck the rules, fuck the reffs, fuck fairplay....... oh no we are in trouble, quick everyone must get together and help save the game.

[Shirley.]

I agree. As much as I hate them, they are a club with an illustrious history and are one of the biggest icons in world football. No club deserves to go through what these two clubs have been through and may yet go through. I'd love them never to win anything ever again, but not because they can't compete anymore.

 Most of Man United's illustrious history came as a result of the commercial revolution in football. They reaped the rewards of that for a long time (and still do, to an extent) but now the fans are seeing the other, less pretty side of that world as a result of the Glazer ownership. They can't have it both ways, which most of them seem to do.

 Saying that though, the Glazers should never have been allowed near Old Trafford or any other English club. The EPL didn't act back then and, even after storms of negative publicity, they still refuse to act now. Scudamore should not be in a job.