Topic: Roy Hodgson's Formations and Tactics

[Tom Hicks' Lovechild]

Most people seem to think Roy will go with a 442 and it does seem likely but going by the videos below I'm not so sure.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/WYvPQR49dsQ&amp;amp;hl=en_GB&amp;amp;fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/WYvPQR49dsQ&amp;amp;hl=en_GB&amp;amp;fs=1</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/QF_uoyQ4Pd0&amp;amp;hl=en_GB&amp;amp;fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/QF_uoyQ4Pd0&amp;amp;hl=en_GB&amp;amp;fs=1</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/iOOSemd9OG0&amp;amp;hl=en_GB&amp;amp;fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/iOOSemd9OG0&amp;amp;hl=en_GB&amp;amp;fs=1</a>


Any thoughts?

[Legendary]

Interesting to hear his thoughts tactically. Thought his ideas in the 3-5-2 vid were along the lines of "I'll play whatever formation suits my players" and so I'm not so sure we'll see a traditional 4-4-2 next season.

[harleydanger]

The one question i've been asking is if he is a formation to players manager or a players to formation one. In all honesty it will be interesting o see what another manager does with Rafa's squad. (if we still have it come season start)

[Niru Red4ever]

Would probably play 4-3-3. 4-4-2 would not suit the current crop of players.
And if Hodgson does go with 4-4-2; would there be a change in how the reserves/youth play?

[J-Mc-]

That 3-5-2 is an interesting idea, although one that I don't think could work in the league, but may in europe.

Reina

Skrtel         Carragher          Agger

Johnson                                                                         Insua
Gerrard                Mascherano(?)

Aquilani

Torres               Jovanovic

[me76]

4-2-3-1 is the order of the day though isn't it?  Particularly with our lack of strikers. 

Against teams in bottom half of league you could see Gerrard being in one of the holding roles with Lucas (assuming Masch goes), with Kuyt, Aqua & Jova ahead of them, and against good sides, Gerrard playing behind Torres (hopefully), with a two true holding midfielders - Lucas & Masch (or his replacement).

[J-Mc-]

4-2-3-1 is the order of the day though isn't it?  Particularly with our lack of strikers. 

Against teams in bottom half of league you could see Gerrard being in one of the holding roles with Lucas (assuming Masch goes), with Kuyt, Aqua & Jova ahead of them, and against good sides, Gerrard playing behind Torres (hopefully), with a two true holding midfielders - Lucas & Masch (or his replacement).

We've used 4-2-3-1 to often though, teams know exactly how to set up against us.

get 2 defenders on torres, 2 midfielders on gerrard and we're basically screwed. We need a change in formation and tactics IMO.

Plus, with Jovanovic now in the squad, we have a very good partner and cover for Torres, plus theres always the hope that Babel will step it up under Hodgson (who seems to get the best out of young players) meaning we have another striker, plus kuyt and Ngog.

[me76]

We've used 4-2-3-1 to often though, teams know exactly how to set up against us.

get 2 defenders on torres, 2 midfielders on gerrard and we're basically screwed. We need a change in formation and tactics IMO.

Plus, with Jovanovic now in the squad, we have a very good partner and cover for Torres, plus theres always the hope that Babel will step it up under Hodgson (who seems to get the best out of young players) meaning we have another striker, plus kuyt and Ngog.

I kind of got the impression from watching Jovanovic in the WC that he played more in an attacking/wide left position rather than as second striker.  Great if it can work, but in a 4-4-2, with Jova up front, who plays on the left of midfield?

[abhred]

I kind of got the impression from watching Jovanovic in the WC that he played more in an attacking/wide left position rather than as second striker.  Great if it can work, but in a 4-4-2, with Jova up front, who plays on the left of midfield?

Joe Cole.

[me76]

Joe Cole.

I'd be happy with that :-)

[abhred]

I've been a huge advocate of the 4-2-3-1, but unless we get some outstanding wingers (which we won't), I'm really, really inclined towards the 4-4-2. Especially considering how injury prone Torres, Gerrard, and Aquilani are, think a 4-4-2 would make sense. Also given that our best young player (Nemeth and Pacheco) are suited to a tee to play the No. 7 role.

I'm not sure about Jovanovic, but if we could buy a proper second striker (hopefully with the  funds from Mascherano), we'd be set. Wonder what Forlan would cost, at his age?

[me76]

I've been a huge advocate of the 4-2-3-1, but unless we get some outstanding wingers (which we won't), I'm really, really inclined towards the 4-4-2. Especially considering how injury prone Torres, Gerrard, and Aquilani are, think a 4-4-2 would make sense. Also given that our best young player (Nemeth and Pacheco) are suited to a tee to play the No. 7 role.

I'm not sure about Jovanovic, but if we could buy a proper second striker (hopefully with the  funds from Mascherano), we'd be set. Wonder what Forlan would cost, at his age?

Assuming Torres is fit, and stays, I think a trio of either Kuyt, Aqua & Jova or Kuyt, Gerrard & Jova would be productive.  If Cole happened to come, then he could play on the left side - in place of Jova. 

Forlan and Torres as a combination would be handy - got a spare $30m do we?  Reckon that's what he'd cost after the last month of performances.

[J-Mc-]

I kind of got the impression from watching Jovanovic in the WC that he played more in an attacking/wide left position rather than as second striker.  Great if it can work, but in a 4-4-2, with Jova up front, who plays on the left of midfield?

He can play on the left or upfront (heard he prefers playing as a striker more though)

[me76]

He can play on the left or upfront (heard he prefers playing as a striker more though)

Right - well that is interesting.  I guess he'd be expected to work back into midfield when we're not in possession anyway, making it like a 4-5-1 and then breaking forward.  He looks quick so could get forward in support.  Big hopes for him to establish himself in the first team.

[manifest]

Don't think Torres is at his best with a second striker...like when he plays for spain. He seems so much more effective on his own. It's beyond me why chelsea would want him with drogba there. So 4321 continues while he remains I hope. Jovanovic looked great at the WC, often the best player on the pitch, but he seems a wide man in a three, not a second striker in a 442.
High hopes too for Shelvey, looks a class act, a cooler more pass oriented Gerrard.

After months of grief under the shadow of the ownership debacle, it seems unreal to talk about football again.

[J-Mc-]

Right - well that is interesting.  I guess he'd be expected to work back into midfield when we're not in possession anyway, making it like a 4-5-1 and then breaking forward.  He looks quick so could get forward in support.  Big hopes for him to establish himself in the first team.

He's similar to Kuyt in how he plays IMO, only much quicker.

Likes to get a tackle in, great work rate and has tremendous speed and a presence on the pitch.

Haven't been excited about a signing like this since we signed Torres tbh, got a big feeling he's going to be a brilliant acquisition for the club.

[me76]

I certainly was impressed by him at the WC, but it's hard to know how that translates.  V glad to hear that others are excited too.  He does look quick - what a welcome change that will be.  For a couple of years it's been Torres and the clydesdales!

[abhred]

Don't think Torres is at his best with a second striker...like when he plays for spain. He seems so much more effective on his own. It's beyond me why chelsea would want him with drogba there. So 4321 continues while he remains I hope. Jovanovic looked great at the WC, often the best player on the pitch, but he seems a wide man in a three, not a second striker in a 442.
High hopes too for Shelvey, looks a class act, a cooler more pass oriented Gerrard.

After months of grief under the shadow of the ownership debacle, it seems unreal to talk about football again.

He's never played with a proper supporting striker for a long period of time. Spain's game is not suited to Torres anyways.

We've been relying on Torres for far too long, and if he gets injured, we're fucked.

[me76]

After months of grief under the shadow of the ownership debacle, it seems unreal to talk about football again.

Couldn't agree more mate. 

[Marko B]

We've used 4-2-3-1 to often though, teams know exactly how to set up against us.

get 2 defenders on torres, 2 midfielders on gerrard and we're basically screwed. We need a change in formation and tactics IMO.

Plus, with Jovanovic now in the squad, we have a very good partner and cover for Torres, plus theres always the hope that Babel will step it up under Hodgson (who seems to get the best out of young players) meaning we have another striker, plus kuyt and Ngog.

Hence the importance of  the attacking fullback. Somewhere we lacked quality through injury and inexperience lsat year. The system is fine, it's the players not playing up to standard that is the problem. Hopefully with a clean bill of injuries we can reverse that trend this year.

[royhendo]

It's just numbers - as Hodgson says there - pure semantics. He makes it easy to understand and that's a good thing I'd argue.

[me76]

It's just numbers - as Hodgson says there - pure semantics. He makes it easy to understand and that's a good thing I'd argue.

Will be quite a different approach from the meticulous and detailed strategy of Rafa's if that's the case.

[m4ttc]

I'd be happy with that :-)

Joe Cole would want a 100k a week.  Can you see them 4 bastards sanctioning a 5 million pound a year contract?

[jp2]

Simon Davies on working with Roy:

"Every day in training is geared towards team shape for the match-day coming up. Nothing else."

"I don`t want to give any secrets away, but he gets the 11 he wants to start on a match-day and drills in everything he wants."

"It`s certain defensive drills, certain attacking drills."

"We`ve had a little laugh about it now and again, but when the manager came in we were fighting relegation and we ended in the Europa league - so you take it."

"It`s nice to know what you work hard on works so well."

I've heard similar things from Dempsey - team shape, team shape, team shape.

I have a feeling he will be a lot more adventurous with a more varied lineup but I'm too sloshed to make a stab at it.

[Andy@Allerton]

The whole situation at the club aside, it's no surprise that Roy will be spot on when it comes to theory and tactics in the game. 34 years is a long time to hone your skills.

Just wish that if we'd got him in, we'd have done so in better times and for better reasons.

[LiamG]

433/451 when defending

                Reina
Johnson Carra Agger Insua/New LB?

            Masch?/Lucas

         Gerrard   Aquilani
Kuyt                         Jovanovic
               Torres

[abhred]

More important that anything, I want him to implement the pass and move that he talks so highly about. Get it passing from the back, no hoofs, and get players to make themselves available for a pass.

[sangria]

We've used 4-2-3-1 to often though, teams know exactly how to set up against us.

get 2 defenders on torres, 2 midfielders on gerrard and we're basically screwed. We need a change in formation and tactics IMO.

Plus, with Jovanovic now in the squad, we have a very good partner and cover for Torres, plus theres always the hope that Babel will step it up under Hodgson (who seems to get the best out of young players) meaning we have another striker, plus kuyt and Ngog.

It's not the formation, it's the players. Replace Carragher and push up and play quickly. Carragher is tolerable if there's Alonso in the team. Alonso isn't around any more, so if the team wants to attack, Carragher has to go.

[danwms]

Lets see what players we have left first.

[vicgill]

The way we used to line up before football was invented
 
                                                    Goalkeeper
 
               Right Back                                                           Left Back
 
          Right Half                             Centre Half                               Left Half
 
Right Wing              Inside Right      Centre Forward    Inside Left             Left Wing

[Keso]

For me 3-5-2 is the worst option due to the fact that I think we need the wide players to hold up play from time to time. A 3-5-2 would probably exclude Maxi, Kuyt/Jovanovic, Babel, Pacheco a.s.o.

And regarding to Torres beeing better playing alone is imho an asumption based on wrong evidence. Spain never plays to Torres advantage, we know he's at his best running at defenders and waiting for that through ball that seems to never get delivered from Xavi/Xabi. One could also argue that he can't play with 3 up front (as Spain has done so far) so that would suggest no 4-3-3 either, and if I'm not misstaken is our attacking formation.

[royhendo]

Will be quite a different approach from the meticulous and detailed strategy of Rafa's if that's the case.

I'm not so sure - 3 main systems that are interchangeable during games - it's not that complex. We get overly caught up in formations and when you heard Rafa talking about, for example, Torres v Vidic at Old Trafford last year, it's clear they used the players they had to try and cause maximum damage to the players they had. It's just different degrees of strictness and player empowerment. We might see a different degree of tolerance and willingness to let players learn from their mistakes, and that can be both a negative and a positive thing, depending on the context.

I've always enjoyed listening to Hodgson talk football though - Footie Italia was always a treat when he was on.

[sangria]

And regarding to Torres beeing better playing alone is imho an asumption based on wrong evidence. Spain never plays to Torres advantage, we know he's at his best running at defenders and waiting for that through ball that seems to never get delivered from Xavi/Xabi. One could also argue that he can't play with 3 up front (as Spain has done so far) so that would suggest no 4-3-3 either, and if I'm not misstaken is our attacking formation.

From what I've read, Benitez encouraged Torres to take whatever risks he wants in return for maximum results. This suits Torres's high power, high skill game, and Liverpool is set up to feed that (and in Gerrard, there is another player equally apt at playing that game). When playing for Spain, there is no-one else playing that game, so the the team is 9 outfield players playing for Spain plus Torres playing alone. I think Kuyt may be a better fit for Spain's set up than Torres.

[Gnurglan]

I remember when we played Mourinho's Chelsea. We won and afterwards one of our players said something like "Rafa prepared us all week for them playing with a diamond midfield". I also remember Rafa speaking about "patterns of play" in his early days with us. Now we have Roy talking about the same things and all of a sudden it's like people think he's invented something fundamentally new. On the UEFA site, there's a clip with Pellegrini, who also talks about preparations.

About the videos, I think Roy is basically saying the same thing as the quote from Rafa (see below this post). I like those videos. For those who are interested in tactics, he really shows how a 4-4-2 can be transformed into other formations with ease. He explains why he prefers a 4-4-2, how the partnerships work etc. Very visual explanations, very simple, yet with lots of information in it. Well worth watching!

[Passmaster Molby]

I think it will be a 4-4-2 or a 4-4-1-1 if he goes Gerrard/Torres up top.

From those video's you get the impression he prefers a back 4 over a back 3, and isn't a great fan of a 4-3-3 as you don't get enough bodies into the box. Also think he likes to attack down the flanks as well so the logical options to cover all of those bases is the 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 depending on who he plays up front.

Reina

Johnson
Insua
Carragher
Agger

Kuyt
Jovanovic
Mascherano
Aquilani

Gerrard

Torres

Would probably be my preferred starting eleven based on the players we have right now. Against better opposition this would be my choice for sure as Gerrard can give you a 3 in the middle to combat the better midfields of Chelsea, United, Arsenal etc. However, against the lesser sides you can put Maxi wide right, swap Gerrard into central midfield and shove Kuyt up top with Torres in a 4-4-2 to be more attacking.

[Lord Roger Hunt]

I have to say that there's something about Hodgson that's reassuring ..... maybe he is just what we need now....fingers crossed!   

[rickythered]

I vote for a return to 4-4-2 and going with two strikers alongside each-over, gives the defenders a harder time and more to think about and hopefully will take the pressure of Torres and stop him getting the shit kicked out of him as much. Problem is if we revert to 4-4-2 we will require specialist wide-men who stay out on the wings and supply the ammo for the strikers and thats something we lack at the moment. 

[Passmaster Molby]

Hodgson knows his stuff regarding tactics - you don't spend 30 plus years in the game without seeing a wide and varied number of tactical setups from the opposition that you need to overcome. He is a good communicator, seems a likeable guy but at the same time he is nobody's fool. He ticks all the right boxes when it comes to being a manager, and now he has some top class resources (players) at his disposal I am confident he will flourish.

[Trada]

A shame that football is played on grass and not paper.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

That 3-5-2 is an interesting idea, although one that I don't think could work in the league, but may in europe.

Reina

Skrtel     <------>    Carragher          Agger

Johnson                                                                         Insua
Gerrard                Mascherano(?)

Aquilani

Torres               Jovanovic

I like this formation. I would interchange Skrtel and Carragher. As he explains the role of the CB on the right side, Carra is a better adept on that role than Skrtel. Or maybe even Kyrgiakos, instead of Skrtel.

That leaves us in a case where we will be using all the 3 CBs we have now. Could spell trouble unless reinforcements are made or someone from the reserves steps up. [With the existing owners, I would expect only the latter]