Author Topic: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship  (Read 99884 times)

Offline Sangria

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #560 on: September 21, 2010, 11:22:26 AM »
Especially if that new boss told you to stop using the methods of work that had brought you success in your entire career to date and to start working in a new way which you didn't thik was as effective. Yeah - you'd have doubts and your head would drop. No doubt about that.

The thing that worries me most about this change in football philosophy and the marginalisation of our 'footballing' players is that, despite the fact that what happens on the pitch this season is in many ways secondary to what happens off it, I still maintained this vague hope that if the ownership debacle could be sorted out at some point this season then perhaps the season itself would be a write-off in footballing terms, but we could regroup in the summer perhaps and push on next year, without being too far away from where we were a couple of years ago; but looking at it now there seem to be two assaults on the club - one on the financial side, and one on the footballing side. I'm worried that if/ when we do eventually get new owners the football philosophy at the club and the structure of the squad will be so utterly transformed that it will take years to put right. And the sad thing is one of those assaults - the one on the footballing side - is so utterly avoidable.

I really want to like Roy. It might not sound like it from some of my posts, but honestly I want to like the guy and I want to be able to fully support him in what he is doing at Anfield; the thing is though, that everything he has done thus far in his tenure goes against everything I feel about the way the game should be played. It's kind of hard to support someone when you're in constant disagreement with them.
Which is the opposite of steadying the ship. Steadying the ship is taking the rudder and stopping it from veering, but not significantly changing the direction. Rather than repeat that mantra which frankly doesn't reflect what's going on, people should recognise Hodgson is rebuilding the ship to his own vision, not steadying it. Whether it's good or not is arguable. That's he's radically changing the football side is less arguable.
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Offline Rafas Christmas Coats

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #561 on: September 21, 2010, 11:28:36 AM »
Which is the opposite of steadying the ship. Steadying the ship is taking the rudder and stopping it from veering, but not significantly changing the direction. Rather than repeat that mantra which frankly doesn't reflect what's going on, people should recognise Hodgson is rebuilding the ship to his own vision, not steadying it. Whether it's good or not is arguable. That's he's radically changing the football side is less arguable.

That does seem true; he is changing the way we play. It's strange that he stressed the Liverpool Groove and our old style of play when he has this in mind. And it really seems he has this hoofing in mind, the only evidence you need is Agger not playing.
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Offline Carlito Roberto

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #562 on: September 21, 2010, 11:28:56 AM »
Agger is our best defender by a million miles, it's just a shame our manager can't see that. Roy must have a very short memory because he was immense against Arsenal (think Roy said as much himself) but hasn't had a look in since.

Offline No Way José

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #563 on: September 21, 2010, 11:33:21 AM »
Agger is our best defender by a million miles, it's just a shame our manager can't see that. Roy must have a very short memory because he was immense against Arsenal (think Roy said as much himself) but hasn't had a look in since.

This - out of all our defenders Agger is the only one who would walk into most of Europes elite clubs teams.
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Offline lucas21

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #564 on: September 21, 2010, 11:33:32 AM »
dunno why people are slating hodgson so much

hes only had 5 league games. one was against a team we never beat under Rafa and who are no pushovers these days


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Tuesday, 21 March 2006
Birmingham 0-7 Liverpool

Liverpool crushed struggling Birmingham to reach the last four of the FA Cup.

The manner in which Liverpool embarrassed Birmingham defensively will leave huge question marks over the ability of Steve Bruce side's to stay in the Premiership.

Liverpool: Reina, Finnan, Carragher, Hyypia, Traore (Kewell 22), Alonso, Gerrard (Cisse 71), Sissoko, Riise, Crouch (Morientes 56), Luis Garcia.
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I know its the FA Cup but Rafa did beat them ;)

Offline J-beth

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #565 on: September 21, 2010, 11:58:21 AM »
We can't get away with a 'lost in translation' on this one. The interview's there, and I"m sure our Danish speakers would point out any discrepancies between his words and the youtube subtitles if they exist. So far, it tallies with the newspaper reports.

If anything, the interview's got another previously unmentioned bit : ..."having different views on football is one thing, being benched for it is another" that's also troubling.


The subtitles are spot on in that video, no misquotes there.
The worrying part is, that usually when Agger gives an interview he always sounds like he would rather be anywhere but with the reporter. In this interview he sounds very keen to talk about the topic

Offline RigBon1892

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #566 on: September 21, 2010, 12:00:38 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P75Vq0qRbXM
    
Tuesday, 21 March 2006
Birmingham 0-7 Liverpool

Liverpool crushed struggling Birmingham to reach the last four of the FA Cup.

The manner in which Liverpool embarrassed Birmingham defensively will leave huge question marks over the ability of Steve Bruce side's to stay in the Premiership.

Liverpool: Reina, Finnan, Carragher, Hyypia, Traore (Kewell 22), Alonso, Gerrard (Cisse 71), Sissoko, Riise, Crouch (Morientes 56), Luis Garcia.
Subs Not Used: Dudek, Kromkamp.

Goals: Hyypia 1, Crouch 5, 38, Morientes 59, Riise 70, Tebily 77 og, Cisse 89.
I know its the FA Cup but Rafa did beat them ;)

Rafa beat a Steve Bruce side! :D
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Offline majestic_11

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #567 on: September 21, 2010, 12:17:11 PM »
Rafa beat a Steve Bruce side! :D

when he does he doesn't fuck about....Liverpool 3 sunderland 0!

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #568 on: September 21, 2010, 12:30:40 PM »
We could end up loosing agger becauese we choose to play paul konchesky left back? That in itself is a sin.
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Offline Daranoza

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #569 on: September 21, 2010, 12:31:51 PM »
We could end up loosing agger becauese we choose to play paul konchesky left back? That in itself is a sin.

I'm not quite sure why, since Agger already expressed he's not particularly happy at left back and feels he doesn't offer enough in this position. Have I missed something?
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Online Red_Irishman

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #570 on: September 21, 2010, 12:33:51 PM »
I'm not quite sure why, since Agger already expressed he's not particularly happy at left back and feels he doesn't offer enough in this position. Have I missed something?
I bet he wouldnt leave if he started regularly left back? And, I would prefer him to konchesky at left back by a large amount.
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Offline GIPPO77

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #571 on: September 21, 2010, 12:33:57 PM »
All this infighting cant be good for moral.
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Offline Carra23

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #572 on: September 21, 2010, 12:34:51 PM »
We could end up loosing agger becauese we choose to play paul konchesky left back? That in itself is a sin.

We could end up losing our best defender Agger because Carragher & Skrtel are (wrongly IMO) the preferred Central Defensive pairing.

Nothing to do with Paul Konchesky.
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Offline felix.

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #573 on: September 21, 2010, 12:36:02 PM »
if we're going to play hoofball then we might as well put torres on the bench too.
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Online Red_Irishman

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #574 on: September 21, 2010, 12:36:29 PM »
We could end up losing our best defender Agger because Carragher & Skrtel are (wrongly IMO) the preferred Central Defensive pairing.

Nothing to do with Paul Konchesky.
Well, that is true. But if it meant Agger staying, id axe konchesky, thats all im saying.
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Offline Randy Marsh

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #575 on: September 21, 2010, 12:36:37 PM »
All this infighting cant be good for moral.

Its alright, we're a lot more together now we've got rid of the cold hearted bastard. Uncle Hodgson will make things wight, with a cuddly arm round the shoulder. He's that type of manager you see.
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Offline griffic

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #576 on: September 21, 2010, 12:38:14 PM »
Let me start by saying I quite like hodgson as a person, but am not convinced he is the manager for our club, firstly I  think he was an appointment made out of neccesity to get the press of our backs and to do a job without stiring things up during all the boadroom problems till new owners come in.

I fully expect him to go if we ever get new owners. From his point of view I think he is fully aware of this and is pinning his hopes on being able to do a good enough job to buy himself some time when we get new owners and money to spend, to make a go of things and show he is the man for the job.

From what I have seen so far it looks to me that he is trying to play a similar style to fulham and this is backed up for me by aggers comments.  They looked to get the ball from back to front quickly and play from there, this for me is why zamora loooked such a good player in there system he is a decent target man and works hard for the team. I also think it is a contributing factor as to why Torres isn't having as much joy up front as we would like, aswell as playing catch up on pre-season.

As I think everyone has noticed the defence is sitting too deep and it looks like the shackles have been put on the fullbacks too to a certain extent.  I don't think the defence is meant to sit as deep as it is currently but with the personel being used (carragher, skirtle) I think it just happens they naturally drop off to defend as pace is not their biggest asset and both are if you like are just stoppers and not much else.  For this to improve I think you have to play Agger he offers a balance to either skirtle, carragher or kyriagos(spelling?) and as he carries the ball out of defence this brings the whole defensive line forward.
At the moment we are seeing gerrard dropping between the centrebacks to get the ball of pepe, and if one of the centre backs have it most of the time the chosen ball looks to be one down the channels for wide players to run on to or a long ball aimed at torres, I know carragher has done this a lot over the years but I can't help think especially after this interview with Agger that this is a tactical instruction thats been given.

Torres' game is not about being a target man he is one of the most direct players I have seen as soon as he gets the ball he is looking to turn and head straight at goal his runs are generally to get himself in to a position to head straight for goal. When he does lay it off it is most of the time so he can spin and get himself straight into a position were he can be put through on goal, this is why he combines so well with gerrard because gerrard is at his best when playing at pace and giving quick decisive passes the exact kind that torres thrives on. I think this is why gerrard is better playing off torres than as the midfield playmaker he is being used as at the moment by roy.  Don't get me wrong Gerrard can play pretty much anywhere on the pitch and be our best player but I think it's better for the team if he plays off Torres it's the only time we look to have a real cutting edge.

Anyway to sum up for me Agger should be first choice of our centre backs, with anyone from our other senior centre backs, and from what I have seen of Wilson he would be the back up for agger, or possible ayala when he returns from loan as he has looked relatively comfortable on the ball.

If what is going on at the moment continues Agger will be gone and there will be no shortage of clubs willing to take him if he plays regularly as first choice I can see him becoming one of the best in the business over the next couple of years as he reaches his prime.  He has already started showing the leadership we have been looking for from him more and more as when he plays he is the one doing the organising not just Carragher.

The organisation for me is the only thing that makes it difficult not to rotate Carragher, without him there is no organiser but I think Agger is ready for this responsability but the question is does Roy?

Offline Roger Federer

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #577 on: September 21, 2010, 12:39:11 PM »
I bet he wouldnt leave if he started regularly left back? And, I would prefer him to konchesky at left back by a large amount.
Agger isn't a left back, had a horrible game there against City, and left O'Shea with too much space against United. He should compete and, in my opinion, be ahead of Carragher, Skrtel and Kyrgiakos, not play instead of Konchesky.

Anyone know what Aurelio is up to by the way? He was on the bench a couple of times, but haven't seen him lately.

Offline Sangria

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #578 on: September 21, 2010, 12:46:56 PM »
The organisation for me is the only thing that makes it difficult not to rotate Carragher, without him there is no organiser but I think Agger is ready for this responsability but the question is does Roy?
Kyrgiakos leads the defence better than Carragher, judging by the performance of the back 4 whenever he's been in it. There aren't many things Carragher is better than Kyrgiakos at. Maybe some things he's less bad at, where both of them are inferior to Agger, but not much Carragher is good at that Kyrgiakos isn't also good at. In addition to the leadership and organisation, which is arguable, Kyrgiakos is undeniably stronger and better in the air.
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Offline Red-juvenated

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #579 on: September 21, 2010, 12:51:25 PM »
Hope Agger gets a run of games, assuming Roy is only shuffling the squad about to gauge how different players link up during games. He should preferably alternate with Carra, alongside Skrtel.
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Online Hazell

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #580 on: September 21, 2010, 12:51:40 PM »
Kyrgiakos leads the defence better than Carragher, judging by the performance of the back 4 whenever he's been in it. There aren't many things Carragher is better than Kyrgiakos at. Maybe some things he's less bad at, where both of them are inferior to Agger, but not much Carragher is good at that Kyrgiakos isn't also good at. In addition to the leadership and organisation, which is arguable, Kyrgiakos is undeniably stronger and better in the air.

Seeing as the fullbacks are allowing crosses to come into the box regularly and we're having trouble with them when they do, I'm hoping Roy fixes this by either stopping them of playing Kyrgiakos to combat the problem. It would mean that Carragher would need to be dropped (I think he should be anyway with Skrtel and agger playing) because we can't play both.
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Online jaffod

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #581 on: September 21, 2010, 12:53:56 PM »


Anyone know what Aurelio is up to by the way? He was on the bench a couple of times, but haven't seen him lately.

He was in Old Swan drop in centre this morning. Looked like he had his head wedged in a saucepan.

Offline Wesley Pipes

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #582 on: September 21, 2010, 01:00:43 PM »
Kyrgiakos leads the defence better than Carragher, judging by the performance of the back 4 whenever he's been in it. There aren't many things Carragher is better than Kyrgiakos at. Maybe some things he's less bad at, where both of them are inferior to Agger, but not much Carragher is good at that Kyrgiakos isn't also good at. In addition to the leadership and organisation, which is arguable, Kyrgiakos is undeniably stronger and better in the air.

I didn't want to say it but if big Soti played Sunday Berbatov wouldn't have got those 2 headed goals, he would have had him in his back pocket at set pieces all match.

I struggle to see the difference between him and Carra for Passion, Organisation, Speed and Skill... actually there is one thing Carra beats him at, He is a Scouser.

Apart from that Kyrgiakos > Carra

I have always thought Soti was a cracking bit of business for 1.5 too bad he hasn't been given a chance apart from when we are truly down and oput and didnt he come through for us then last season. Agger and Soti is my dream pairing but it will never happen, i'm surprised poor Soti makes the reserves the way he is treated.

Offline bordeauxred

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #583 on: September 21, 2010, 01:01:02 PM »
Hope Agger gets a run of games, assuming Roy is only shuffling the squad about to gauge how different players link up during games. He should preferably alternate with Carra, alongside Skrtel.

Sadly Roy would not have the bottle to alternate Carra but maybe at some point Carra, for his love of the club, will offer to drop to the bench. This isnt a slag off Carra post as I reckon that in the future he is going to be one of our greatest mangers with his football knowledge, passion and motivation but for the time being...........

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #584 on: September 21, 2010, 01:10:51 PM »
Agree absolutely with those saying that Kyrgiakos and Agger could be our best partnership. It was the same when Sami was still at the club, the Sami/Agger pairing was never tried often enough. There's a bullet that needs to be bitten here.
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Offline newterp

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #585 on: September 21, 2010, 01:22:32 PM »
no problem at all with agger calling things as they truly are.  to good of a player to sit languishing on the bench because he'd rather play intelligent modern football versus the chuck-and-duck that Roy wants.

Online The 5th Benitle

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #586 on: September 21, 2010, 01:33:19 PM »

Sadly Roy would not have the bottle to alternate Carra but maybe at some point Carra, for his love of the club, will offer to drop to the bench. This isnt a slag off Carra post as I reckon that in the future he is going to be one of our greatest mangers with his football knowledge, passion and motivation but for the time being...........
Would go against what he said about it in his autobiography. He said he'd rather leave the club than drop to the bench, and it absolutely astonishes me that more isn't made of that. It's just a terrible thing to say for one who professes to love the club so much.
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Offline Wesley Pipes

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #587 on: September 21, 2010, 01:38:53 PM »
Would go against what he said about it in his autobiography. He said he'd rather leave the club than drop to the bench, and it absolutely astonishes me that more isn't made of that. It's just a terrible thing to say for one who professes to love the club so much.

It's great that you and I agree on something, when I seen your name come up I thought you were gonna shut me down again.

Gotta rememeber the lad grew up a blue nose and it was his dream to score against Liverpool for Everton.

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #588 on: September 21, 2010, 01:44:00 PM »
Nah mate I wouldn't do that just because we disagree on Lucas!
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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #589 on: September 21, 2010, 01:50:16 PM »
I don't have a problem with that Carra quote to be honest J.  The thing is he is a professional football player first and he clearly loves playing.  It's a short career and the advice every retired player gives is "keeping playing as long as you can son". 

I have far more problem with the players who are content to sit on the bench and collect their high premiership wages even when they know they have no chance of playing.

At his age any departure is likely to be a short one and the fact that a lot of my childhood heroes finished their career at Brighton or Swansea or Cardiff or wherever has not tainted their memory.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 01:52:22 PM by Veinticinco de Mayo »
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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #590 on: September 21, 2010, 01:52:00 PM »
Testicles required. Jocky said the same thing.

Offline Neil D

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #591 on: September 21, 2010, 01:53:28 PM »
I didn't want to say it but if big Soti played Sunday Berbatov wouldn't have got those 2 headed goals, he would have had him in his back pocket at set pieces all match.

I struggle to see the difference between him and Carra for Passion, Organisation, Speed and Skill... actually there is one thing Carra beats him at, He is a Scouser.

Apart from that Kyrgiakos > Carra

I have always thought Soti was a cracking bit of business for 1.5 too bad he hasn't been given a chance apart from when we are truly down and oput and didnt he come through for us then last season. Agger and Soti is my dream pairing but it will never happen, i'm surprised poor Soti makes the reserves the way he is treated.

But Soto would have got ragged on the turn and for pace far worse than Carra like he did last Thursday. The prospect of Rooney or Nani cutting in to face Soto is frightening.

Carra beats Soto in all departments save for heading. He is better at organising the defence, he is a better tackler, reads the game better and has better positioning, is quicker, better on the ball, better on the turn and a better player with more experience. This is getting ridiculous, this running down of Carra. He is past his best and should not be guaranteed first choice, but for two years or so he was one of the best defenders in Europe. Soto is a journeyman and not in his pedigree, he has never reached anywhere near that level.

Soto is nowhere near Sami's class - now Sami and Agger should have got more time together. I like Soto, he did a decent job last year, and he is a good backup and ideal for trips to Stoke. But he doesn't deserve to be in our first team ahead of Carra or Skrtel.
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Offline Clayton Bigsby

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #592 on: September 21, 2010, 01:53:41 PM »

I'm about to  risk a ban/ridicule

Agger isn't half getting overrated in this thread. He is our best defender attacking( seeing as our others are skrtel and carragher tahst not hard although Soto is half decent in that regard) but what is about his defensive play that makes this forum want to recreate a Jim Jones style mass suicide.

I think I'm wasting time asking not to be insulted but if you could try and refrain from WUM, Whooper, etc and just school my -4.5 eyes as to what I dont get

Offline Trousers

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #593 on: September 21, 2010, 01:54:02 PM »
I knew that namechecking Howe in that early interview spelt trouble.
Ditto.
I don't know if you're being entirely serious, but it was the first thing he said which set off alarm bells for me.
Agger probably shouldn't of opened his gob, but now that he has the biggest concern is not that he's been dropped but why.
Why do I get the impression Roy will be cheerleading this, during the season.
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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #594 on: September 21, 2010, 01:54:15 PM »
I don't have a problem with that Carra quote to be honest J.  The thing is he is a professional football player first and he clearly loves playing.  It's a short career and the advice every retired player gives is "keeping playing as long as you can son". 

I have far more problem with the players who are content to sit on the bench and collect their high premiership wages even when they know they have no chance of playing.

At his age any departure is likely to be a short one and the fact that a lot of my childhood heroes finished their career at Brighton or Swansea or Cardiff or wherever has not tainted their memory.
Yeah I see what you mean, on the face of it it's not an outrageous thing to say. But soon he'll be called out on it and the fact that the manager already knows what will happen is not ideal in my view, as it makes them wary of biting the bullet. I would just prefer he hadn't said it, or even better had said (whether he meant it or not) that he'd like to end his career at LFC.
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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #595 on: September 21, 2010, 01:55:30 PM »
I'm about to  risk a ban/ridicule

Agger isn't half getting overrated in this thread. He is our best defender attacking( seeing as our others are skrtel and carragher tahst not hard although Soto is half decent in that regard) but what is about his defensive play that makes this forum want to recreate a Jim Jones style mass suicide.

I think I'm wasting time asking not to be insulted but if you could try and refrain from WUM, Whooper, etc and just school my -4.5 eyes as to what I dont get
Pretty simple for me. He's just as good a defender as the other players, PLUS has that cutting edge.
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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #596 on: September 21, 2010, 01:56:16 PM »
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Offline Raul!

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #597 on: September 21, 2010, 01:57:41 PM »
I'm about to  risk a ban/ridicule

Agger isn't half getting overrated in this thread. He is our best defender attacking( seeing as our others are skrtel and carragher tahst not hard although Soto is half decent in that regard) but what is about his defensive play that makes this forum want to recreate a Jim Jones style mass suicide.

I think I'm wasting time asking not to be insulted but if you could try and refrain from WUM, Whooper, etc and just school my -4.5 eyes as to what I dont get
No insults.  There are those of us who think that we are playing like a scared, defensive, defeatist mid table team.  In order not to do so, we need to attack a little more with the ball at our feet.  In order to do that , we need to play a higher line and bring the ball out of defensive by means other than a hoof.  Agger does that, plus he is a more than decent defender.

With Carra and Skrtel, the chances of a defender bringing the ball forward at his feet are between zero and none.

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #598 on: September 21, 2010, 01:58:29 PM »
All this infighting cant be good for moral.

Morale?

Morale is something thats not associated with Liverpool FC.

We got rid of the last manager because he lost the dressing room

Seems like the new manager never had the dressing room.

Fucking joke.

It will be an absolute travesty if Agger leaves because of a manager who doesnt believe in footballers playing football.
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Offline steveeastend

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Re: Agger i'm no rat leaving the ship
« Reply #599 on: September 21, 2010, 02:00:55 PM »
Morale?

Morale is something thats not associated with Liverpool FC.

We got rid of the last manager because he lost the dressing room

Seems like the new manager never had the dressing room.

Fucking joke.

It will be an absolute travesty if Agger leaves because of a manager who doesnt believe in footballers playing football.


But the players are happy now...








sorry 8)