Topic: Javier Mascherano

[Aristotle]

Although I have to admit I find this rather amusing, let's at least make an honest attempt to try and stay on the topic of Mascherano. Tall order I know, but with the combined power of the Jedi council I think we can pull it off.

Made it for over 24 hours without this going away from Mascherano. Well done ladies and gents

[Red_Isle_Chap]

Made it for over 24 hours without this going away from Mascherano. Well done ladies and gents

Really? I thought we were having the "All barca players are shit unless they play for barca" chinwag? Haven't seen much on Masch for a while......

Yeah that's right, i'm trying to ruin your fun. All of you.

[CF999]

Made it for over 24 hours without this going away from Mascherano. Well done ladies and gents

[geoffstrong]

OH YES WE CAN!

[Roger Federer]

I don't think I ever heard some of those comments.

Perhaps not all of them from the same person, but have a look in the threads (or "wankfests") about Barcelona and Spain, and what some said during the world cup and you'll see it on here.

Sorry, Aristotle - will try not to go off-topic again...

[Mr Rossi]

He fits into the Barca team, but it's extremely annoying how playing for Barca somehow turns him into a world class/top player. Good player, nothing more. In another team, he would be exposed more defensively.

Agreed.

[todda]

I hope this comes to an end very quickly now and we can move on and buy in at least one LB and another striker, surely Roy won't make the same mistake as Rafa did last season on the striker front, will he? maybe he will?? bouyed up by the fact Ngog got 2 last night.  I hope not and we get some proven quality in soon.

[RedGirlSuzie]

Now I've been meaning to ask this for a while, but fear that I could sound like abit of a tit (which isn't anything new really!).

If Mascherano was to go to Italy or Spain, surely his game would have to change slightly. Our league is the most physical in europe, which suits his style down to the ground, hard tackles etc. But if he goes abroad he will have to restrain himself and not go in so hard, surely? Yes I know his tackle completion rate is really good, but how many times have we seen in european  game with a foreign ref, even if you get the ball, if you take the player out too, you'll be penalised. Atleast here the refs are slightly more lenient.

I'm not trying to make a case for him to stay, even though I want him to, but if he goes else where, surely he realises he won't be able to play the same kind of football he does with us?

Like I said, I could sound really stupid, but it's something thats been niggling at the back of my mind for a while now!

[Gazza-LFC]

Poulsen being linked to us by Juventus - http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_6286012,00.html

Very Strange

[Dr. Venkman]

Poulsen being linked to us by Juventus - http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_6286012,00.html

Very Strange

Why is this strange? We were linked last year as a replacement for Xabi

[Gazza-LFC]

Why is this strange? We were linked last year as a replacement for Xabi

The fact that the Juventus president is linking one of his own players to us

[markay_stinkay]

£20M + Muntari please Rafa.

[Ron]

Goddamned ! Is he still here ?

[L6 Red]

Poulsen being linked to us by Juventus - http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_6286012,00.html

Very Strange

No it's not. Hodgson is a big fan.

[Mr Rossi]

£20M + Muntari please Rafa.

Fuck that, dont want Muntari. Cambiasso on the other hand....

[MidwestWool]

£50m please, Rafa. That's the right price, no?

[bonou2]

i feel this transfer saga with masch will drag on and on club should set a deadline if inter or barca dont agree a fee in that time masch stays and they can fuck off.  roy needs that 30mill to spend on new players we cant afford to wait around until 3 days before the season starts we need or targets in fast.

[Golyo]

Fuck that, dont want Muntari. Cambiasso on the other hand....

is four years older than Masche.

[Una cerveza, por favor]

is four years older than Masche.

and 100 times better than Muntari.

[markay_stinkay]

Why be so naive?

[gandt]

he`s gonna end up staying, there are only 3 clubs that masch would consider playing for or consider a step up at this point, Barca, real madrid or inter. Real have shown no desire, Barca are broke or if they have any cash it will be spent on fabragas, that leaves inter. I dont believe they have the money to spend on a position that really doesnt need improving too much, they certainly did alright last year, masch would be a luxury for them, not a necessity, doubt they would spend the cash.

[Xabier Alonso Olano]

he`s gonna end up staying, there are only 3 clubs that masch would consider playing for or consider a step up at this point, Barca, real madrid or inter. Real have shown no desire, Barca are broke or if they have any cash it will be spent on fabragas, that leaves inter. I dont believe they have the money to spend on a position that really doesnt need improving too much, they certainly did alright last year, masch would be a luxury for them, not a necessity, doubt they would spend the cash.

I sort of see your point, but I do think he will go. Inter will put the money up if/when Balotelli goes. The key will be how much we ask for him.

[RedRabbit]

We really need to speed this up, maybe even offer him to clubs. I dread the thought of this going on for another month and then selling him on deadline day for nowhere near what he's worth and not having any time to replace him.
As long as he's set on leaving I don't want to see him play for the club again. I don't doubt he'd be committed on the the field while he is here, I just wouldn't be able to applaud him while he did it. We have just over a week to get his replacement in before the Arse game and really need that person in a few days, at least, beforehand.

[Golyo]

and 100 times better than Muntari.

We don't know how Cambiasso would adapt to the PL, while Muntari had a good season in Pompey. In the Serie A Cambiasso is a much better player, but Muntari is far from being so bad as his press. He was made a scapegoat of many times last season just like Lucas in our team.

[brownie 09]

We don't know how Cambiasso would adapt to the PL, while Muntari had a good season in Pompey. In the Serie A Cambiasso is a much better player, but Muntari is far from being so bad as his press. He was made a scapegoat of many times last season just like Lucas in our team.

ye i have to agree with this most people are basing there assesment on what the journos have said and well lets be honest most of them cant spot talent! if roy thought he was good enough for the club then id rather go of what he thinks then what some stuck up kid behind a computor thinks!

But until then i cant really judge him as i havent watched him play since he left the premier league!

[markay_stinkay]

I love how people think Cambiasso would want to join us.

[brownie 09]

I love how people think Cambiasso would want to join us.

if he hasnt been promised first team football why not?

[Red_Rich]

Poulsen being linked to us by Juventus - http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_6286012,00.html

Very Strange

If we sell Masch for £25-30m, I'd take Poulsen, so long as it's a lowish fee for him (below £10m) and the rest from the Mascherano sale went into rebuilding the team and not into the leeches pockets.

[jaffod]

If we sell Masch for £25-30m, I'd take Poulsen, so long as it's a lowish fee for him (below £10m) and the rest from the Mascherano sale went into rebuilding the team and not into the leeches pockets.

'twould be a fine day in cloud-cuckoo land....

[richiedouglas]

I think it'd be the worst scenario if he were to stay as it'd force us into a desperation sale next summer, or he'll run down his contract.

[NeilR]

If we sell Masch for £25-30m, I'd take Poulsen, so long as it's a lowish fee for him (below £10m) and the rest from the Mascherano sale went into rebuilding the team and not into the leeches pockets.

I wouldn't. There are better and cheaper players we could bring in, and also better players at the same price. Too slow and was never good enough to be what Liverpool should have.

[rafabenihill]

roy could raid his old club and bring dickson etuhu

[Raul!]

Well defensive midfielder to a team that has the ball 70% of the game hardly makes him world class. And yes I want diamonds to come out of his ass, it would no doubt hurt a shitload (pun intended) and that would make me smile.

He fits into the Barca team, but it's extremely annoying how playing for Barca somehow turns him into a world class/top player. Good player, nothing more. In another team, he would be exposed more defensively.

I love comments like these.  Statement that are completely incapable of being validated.

I think I've heard that said about almost any Barcelona player though - Valdes is a shit keeper apparently, Pique suspect defensively, Puyol not that good if not playing for Barcelona, Alves can't defend, Xavi just pass the ball sideways and is overrated, Busquets would get found out in another team, Pedro would be nothing without the midfield and so on. I have even heard that Messi isn't the world's best player because he can't do the same things for Argentina. And that is almost their whole starting eleven, bar Iniesta who everyone seems to rate. But they all must do something right, and actually contribute to Barcelona's dominance, the 70% possession in each game, and the many clean sheets.

About Busquets, I don't think he would be exposed. Most team play a lot deeper, and more compact, so I'm sure he would be more protected at, say, Inter. Playing beside Cambiasso, with Sneijder close by, Etoo more or less a second right back, and just a few yards infront of Samuel and Lucio sound easier than doing most of the defensive work yourself. Same goes for Pique and Puyol by the way (even if they are all helped by Barca's pressing from the front).

There is a lot that you say that I don't agree with but this is spot on.  The fact is that both Spain and Barcelona have a system and he fits perfectly into it.  Whether he would or not into another team and how his abilities might shape up then is the matter of pure speculation, unless you can point to specific flaws or shortcomings in his game that would lead you to make those comments.

The fact is that there is a role required of him and he performs it well.  Perhaps we don't like players of his type that much and would prefer that Spain start with Fabregas or Torres instead but he kept Senna out of the Spain XI and squad.

What about his game is it that anyone can conclusive point to and say that he is not good defensively?  Perhaps he's not a defensive pillar but in my humble opinion, we have no proof of that at all.  The only thing we have proof of is that he recycles the ball very efficiently, plays a role in breaking up attacks and can come forward when required.  So he is a decent enough player and Guardiola and Big Moustache Man both agree with me.  What he doesn't do, unlike Mascherano is run about tearing up attacks and tackling and chasing balls down like an Energiser Bunny on acid but hey, that's why Mascherano and he are different players, suited to different team set ups.

Much love.

[markay_stinkay]

if he hasnt been promised first team football why not?

Big if, but even so, why would he want to leave the league and European champions who will once again be competing for both and more than likely winning the league, to join an instable club scrapping for 4th place and playing in the Europa League?

Then there's the fact that there's no way Inter would pay more than £10M for Mascherano plus Cambiasso and given Esteban is 30+, he has little or no re-sale value.

Muntari is only 25, would 'cost' half as much as Cambiasso and is a decent player. No one can deny he was boss for Portsmouth when he was over here for the 07/08 season. He also has goals in his game, something we've been lacking from centre-midfield.

Failing that, Madrid now have a glut of holding midfielders, after the signing of Khedira. L Diarra or Gago wouldn't be bad for the right price.

[brownie 09]

Big if, but even so, why would he want to leave the league and European champions who will once again be competing for both and more than likely winning the league, to join an instable club scrapping for 4th place and playing in the Europa League?

Then there's the fact that there's no way Inter would pay more than £10M for Mascherano plus Cambiasso and given Esteban is 30+, he has little or no re-sale value.

Muntari is only 25, would 'cost' half as much as Cambiasso and is a decent player. No one can deny he was boss for Portsmouth when he was over here for the 07/08 season. He also has goals in his game, something we've been lacking from centre-midfield.

Failing that, Madrid now have a glut of holding midfielders, after the signing of Khedira. L Diarra or Gago wouldn't be bad for the right price.

aye am not objecting to muntari and i understand the money side of getting cambiassot but all i was saying that if cambiasso hasnt beeen promised first team football i it wouldnt be unusual if he did want to join us, i know were not what we were but we are still liverpool football club and we still have very good players at the club  

[jaffod]

I think it'd be the worst scenario if he were to stay as it'd force us into a desperation sale next summer, or he'll run down his contract.

This is the danger.

[Ambrosia]

I think I've heard that said about almost any Barcelona player though - Valdes is a shit keeper apparently, Pique suspect defensively, Puyol not that good if not playing for Barcelona, Alves can't defend, Xavi just pass the ball sideways and is overrated, Busquets would get found out in another team, Pedro would be nothing without the midfield and so on. I have even heard that Messi isn't the world's best player because he can't do the same things for Argentina. And that is almost their whole starting eleven, bar Iniesta who everyone seems to rate. But they all must do something right, and actually contribute to Barcelona's dominance, the 70% possession in each game, and the many clean sheets.

No offence but what you've heard aren't commonly held beliefs. Therefore, it's kinda ridiculous to start implying that Barca players are constantly knocked down when that blatantly is not true. What is true though, it's the system and coaching that makes Barca the success they are. The players are secondary. A player coming through their academy can slip into the first team and fit in like a glove. Rather like what Busquets did last season, coming into a treble winning team. As Alonso, said it's not about having the best players, it's about having the right players. Busquets is the right player for Barca. Doesn't mean he'll be the "right" player for another team.

About Busquets, I don't think he would be exposed. Most team play a lot deeper, and more compact, so I'm sure he would be more protected at, say, Inter. Playing beside Cambiasso, with Sneijder close by, Etoo more or less a second right back, and just a few yards infront of Samuel and Lucio sound easier than doing most of the defensive work yourself. Same goes for Pique and Puyol by the way (even if they are all helped by Barca's pressing from the front).

Barca's tiki taka game is also a defensive tactic. Busquets benefits from the lack of pressure that is never applied to Barca/Spain due to their incredible technical ability. It is questionable how he would react when played in a team that is constantly under wave after wave of attack. Seeing as he is prone to some odd "wtf" moments, i'm of the thought those would increase rather than decrease, when under constant pressure.

[Raul!]

No offence but what you've heard aren't commonly held beliefs. Therefore, it's kinda ridiculous to start implying that Barca players are constantly knocked down when that blatantly is not true. What is true though, it's the system and coaching that makes Barca the success they are. The players are secondary. A player coming through their academy can slip into the first team and fit in like a glove. Rather like what Busquets did last season, coming into a treble winning team. As Alonso, said it's not about having the best players, it's about having the right players. Busquets is the right player for Barca. Doesn't mean he'll be the "right" player for another team.

Barca's tiki taka game is also a defensive tactic. Busquets benefits from the lack of pressure that is never applied to Barca/Spain due to their incredible technical ability. It is questionable how he would react when played in a team that is constantly under wave after wave of attack.  Seeing as he is prone to some odd "wtf" moments, i'm of the thought those would increase rather than decrease, when under constant pressure.

Again, these views sound good in theory but have no empirical basis to conclude that he is a limited player in the way you describe.  I on the other hand would hazard a guess that in a team like ours he would be more a Lucas style player than a Mascherano and would probably play ahead of a more defensive Mascherano type.  and I think he would do fine in that position.

[CHOPPER]

I love comments like these.  Statement that are completely incapable of being validated.

It's what the Internet was invented for.

[Ambrosia]

Again, these views sound good in theory but have no empirical basis to conclude that he is a limited player in the way you describe.  I on the other hand would hazard a guess that in a team like ours he would be more a Lucas style player than a Mascherano and would probably play ahead of a more defensive Mascherano type.  and I think he would do fine in that position.

All specialist players are limited in one way or other.

And to be honest, i don't see why we're in disagreement.  Busquets is a good player but he's not the world class/top player that many here are implying that he is. He still has many things to prove. Or do you disagree with that?