Author Topic: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age  (Read 132807 times)

Offline Finn Solomon

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #360 on: October 21, 2010, 10:50:23 am »
If it stays like this the Souness era will look like the golden age.

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #361 on: October 21, 2010, 10:56:09 am »
It fucking amazes me that ANY Liverpool fan has the balls to criticise Rafa.

We won the Champions League in his first season.

FA Cup in 2006.

Another Champions League final in 2007.

Hicks and Gillett arrived just before the 2007 final and after their arrival what did we win?

Benitez was managing with one hand tied behind his back by the owners and then was betrayed by player power.

Replaced by a man who has proved himself to be a complete prick.

I never wanted Rafa to go. I never wanted the journeyman Hodgson to replace him. I was prepared to hive him a go as ultimately what we all want is success on the pitch.

Hodgson has been a complete disaster for this club, performances on the pitch are clueless and dire. His utterances are so out of touch, arrogant and inept I now hate the guy.

edited.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2010, 11:23:12 am by hinesy »
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Offline Neil D

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #362 on: October 21, 2010, 12:06:19 pm »
Agreed Silver. Just wish we could wind back the clock, but we can't, so I'm going to try and leave the ghost of Rafa alone for now.

Offline sinnermichael

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #363 on: October 21, 2010, 12:09:57 pm »
Tripe from Souness last night. He's got a nerve considering his time at the club:

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid29318049001?bctid=643078257001

Offline liverpooll

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #364 on: October 21, 2010, 12:47:51 pm »
Tripe from Souness last night. He's got a nerve considering his time at the club:

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid29318049001?bctid=643078257001

I fail to understand how can these people lack common sense

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #365 on: October 21, 2010, 01:33:38 pm »
Well tonight Roy has the chance to keep our proud Euro record still sailing - dont blow it.....
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Offline E2K

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #367 on: October 21, 2010, 01:55:44 pm »
Tripe from Souness last night. He's got a nerve considering his time at the club:

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid29318049001?bctid=643078257001

I wouldn’t listen to Graeme Souness, he’s a hypocrite. I’ve managed to stop letting people like him get under my skin but he must have ticked me off at some point last season because I carried out the following little bit of research that proves my first sentence. I put this together in less than half an hour via google and my own memory. Amazing what you can find on t’internet. It’s like a historical record:

Graeme Souness, Newcastle manager, January 2006:

"We've brought in some very good players but the injuries have killed us. Some fool has written that I'm hiding behind injuries, but we've been decimated. It means we can't play the kind of football you want and it means you don't get the results you want."

Newcastle's injury list, December 2005/January 2006 (5): Michael Owen, Scott Parker, Emre, Kieron Dyer, Steven Taylor.

Graeme Souness, professional pundit, November 2009 (in reference to Rafa):

"It's no good pointing to being without your best two players."

"Injuries are part of the game especially when you get to November time. That's when they kick in generally."

Liverpool's injury list, November 2009 (10): Fernando Torres, Steven Gerrard, Glen Johnson, Albert Riera, Alberto Aquilani, David Ngog, Martin Skrtel, Daniel Agger, Martin Kelly, Fabio Aurelio.

Oh, and there's more:

Graeme Souness, Newcastle manager, January 2006:

"I don't think I've done anything wrong. I know that I've brought some very good players to this football club and I know that we've been desperately unlucky in terms of injuries, but I'm sticking at it."

Souness' gross spend in the summer of 2005 (the season he was sacked): £36,800,000 [£17m on Owen, £9.5m on Luque, £3.8m on Emre, £6.5m on Parker]

Graeme Souness, professional pundit, November 2009:

"My criticism is what I've mentioned before. I think he's been there five years, and spent more money than anybody else other than Chelsea."

Rafa's gross spend in the summer of 2009 (the season he was sacked by mutual consent): £36,760,000 [£17.5m on Johnson, £17.1m on Aquilani, £2m on Kyrgiakos, £160,000 on Ayala]
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Offline bellinter

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #368 on: October 21, 2010, 01:57:15 pm »
well said Silver
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Offline 1021

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #369 on: October 21, 2010, 02:25:15 pm »
Graeme Souness is a bellend.

I have to admit I am pissed off by the people who called for Rafa's head, clueless in the belief that Liverpool FC would be able to draw a manager of a similar ilk as Rafa to replace him. Hiddick, Mourinho, et al, would not have touched us with a barge pole. If any of his detractors had a clue about the state of affairs at the club at that time they would have known that, and would have known the real quality of his potential replacements.

But they got what they asked for when the got rid of Rafa, getting rid of him asked for non footballing men to make footballing decisons. They had these men making these decisions when Liverpool didn't have two pennies to rub together knowing they'd end up bringing in a second or third rate manager, which is what we got.

I don't believe that any man is too good for a football club, we are the best in my mind and deserve the best, and with Rafa we had the best. Considering the way it had been ran for his final three years, that LFC, Hicks and Gillett's LFC was so far beneath Rafa we were lucky he had fell so deeply in love with the Liverpool he joined in 2004 that he saw us worth not just hanging on for but fighting for.

We had a good thing, but let one bad season a bad season brought about by issues away from the football pitch, enhanced by injuries, and magnified by how far we had overachieved the previous year, and we lost it.
Plus to my mind after the miracles he worked in his first five seasons I'd have been happy to afford him the one bad season he had earned without any external factors.

The Benitez era was golden. And I can only dream that one day we can see him back here to finish the job he started.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2010, 02:26:55 pm by 1021 »
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Offline Garcia#10

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #370 on: October 21, 2010, 02:42:20 pm »
The most disgusting thing was his reaction when asked about what he thought of Rafa saying "I'm still fighting for the fans"... absolutely disgraceful..

Offline killerH

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #371 on: October 21, 2010, 02:57:01 pm »
The most disgusting thing was his reaction when asked about what he thought of Rafa saying "I'm still fighting for the fans"... absolutely disgraceful..

Yep you could see that by the look of disdain on his face when he was asked about that. He then ripped into Rafa.

Offline tea_tree

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #372 on: October 21, 2010, 03:06:31 pm »
I wouldn’t listen to Graeme Souness, he’s a hypocrite. I’ve managed to stop letting people like him get under my skin but he must have ticked me off at some point last season because I carried out the following little bit of research that proves my first sentence. I put this together in less than half an hour via google and my own memory. Amazing what you can find on t’internet. It’s like a historical record:

Graeme Souness, Newcastle manager, January 2006:

"We've brought in some very good players but the injuries have killed us. Some fool has written that I'm hiding behind injuries, but we've been decimated. It means we can't play the kind of football you want and it means you don't get the results you want."

Newcastle's injury list, December 2005/January 2006 (5): Michael Owen, Scott Parker, Emre, Kieron Dyer, Steven Taylor.

Graeme Souness, professional pundit, November 2009 (in reference to Rafa):

"It's no good pointing to being without your best two players."

"Injuries are part of the game especially when you get to November time. That's when they kick in generally."

Liverpool's injury list, November 2009 (10): Fernando Torres, Steven Gerrard, Glen Johnson, Albert Riera, Alberto Aquilani, David Ngog, Martin Skrtel, Daniel Agger, Martin Kelly, Fabio Aurelio.

Oh, and there's more:

Graeme Souness, Newcastle manager, January 2006:

"I don't think I've done anything wrong. I know that I've brought some very good players to this football club and I know that we've been desperately unlucky in terms of injuries, but I'm sticking at it."

Souness' gross spend in the summer of 2005 (the season he was sacked): £36,800,000 [£17m on Owen, £9.5m on Luque, £3.8m on Emre, £6.5m on Parker]

Graeme Souness, professional pundit, November 2009:

"My criticism is what I've mentioned before. I think he's been there five years, and spent more money than anybody else other than Chelsea."

Rafa's gross spend in the summer of 2009 (the season he was sacked by mutual consent): £36,760,000 [£17.5m on Johnson, £17.1m on Aquilani, £2m on Kyrgiakos, £160,000 on Ayala]

To be fair I think you're being to kind on Graham when you call him a professional. It makes him sound like he's got a clue (much like when people call Hansen, Lawrenson et all professionals) I mean if thats the standard of professionalism, then the whole football media industry needs to be sacked. Oh wait...
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Offline Robinred

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #373 on: October 21, 2010, 03:06:57 pm »
I wouldn’t listen to Graeme Souness, he’s a hypocrite.

Couldn't agree more. After watching it, I was tempted to write a great, long response on here but thought better of it

Unfortunately our T.V football coverage is chock full of failed managers whose arrogance is only superseded by the enormity of their own managerial failure. The result is that whenever Souness, Gullit, Merson, Lawro et al open their mouths (which is often) we have the absurdity of 24 carat managerial failures offering strident views about people whose shoelaces they're unfit to lace. But it doesn't stop there: their breathtaking arrogance, and the paucity of success of their short managerial/coaching careers is itself superseded by the sheer, often spectacular, innacuracy of their lazy utterances.

It's interesting  to note how the defence of Roy has now become practically 'co-ordinated',  orchestrated by the subtle promptings of Keys and co.

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Offline Finn Solomon

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #374 on: October 21, 2010, 03:07:44 pm »
Why do the good players uniformly spout ill-informed bollocks? Does this mean in the future Reina and Torres will savage the club at every opportunity, while Christian Poulsen will be the most sensible and level headed pundit ever?
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Offline ..Bruiser..

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #375 on: October 21, 2010, 03:11:32 pm »
The most disgusting thing was his reaction when asked about what he thought of Rafa saying "I'm still fighting for the fans"... absolutely disgraceful..
What was that?

Love the player Souness but since then he has become a bitter, bitter man.
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Offline The Jackal

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #376 on: October 21, 2010, 03:16:06 pm »
Why do the good players uniformly spout ill-informed bollocks? Does this mean in the future Reina and Torres will savage the club at every opportunity, while Christian Poulsen will be the most sensible and level headed pundit ever?

can't see Reina or torres as the types to ever do that..

Carra on the other hand.. may well go into management, but if he doesn't will become a pundit (can't see him leaving the game completely).
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Offline liverpooll

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #377 on: October 21, 2010, 03:17:37 pm »
can't see Reina or torres as the types to ever do that..

Carra on the other hand.. may well go into management, but if he doesn't will become a pundit (can't see him leaving the game completely).

Can see him becoming like Souness with his comments everyday about Liverpool

Offline Garcia#10

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #378 on: October 21, 2010, 03:19:53 pm »
What was that?

Love the player Souness but since then he has become a bitter, bitter man.

when asked.. he just smiled .. cant explain it though..sort of like everybody knows rafa's just making things up... you'll understand once u see it..

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #379 on: October 21, 2010, 03:27:12 pm »
when asked.. he just smiled .. cant explain it though..sort of like everybody knows rafa's just making things up... you'll understand once u see it..
Thanks. Makes me laugh how he can smile after what a rubbish manager he has been.
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Offline Redshadow

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #380 on: October 21, 2010, 03:34:08 pm »
So, which world class manager did you want in then?

Personally, I'm getting rapidly pissed off with the Rafa out brigade coming on here telling us what we should do about the next manager.  You've got no rights to start shouting from the roof tops, and no right to think that anyone should listen to you.

You obviously listened to all the shite from the pundits and the phone ins.  You were one of those that Purslow/Broughton took notice of.

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #381 on: October 21, 2010, 03:50:10 pm »
Carra on the other hand..  will become a pundit (can't see him leaving the game completely).

Some might require subtitles in that event.
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Offline MagicB8all

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #382 on: October 21, 2010, 03:54:15 pm »
It fucking amazes me that ANY Liverpool fan has the balls to criticise Rafa.

We won the Champions League in his first season.

FA Cup in 2006.

Another Champions League final in 2007.

Hicks and Gillett arrived just before the 2007 final and after their arrival what did we win?

Benitez was managing with one hand tied behind his back by the owners and then was betrayed by player power.

Replaced by a man who has proved himself to be a complete prick.

I never wanted Rafa to go. I never wanted the journeyman Hodgson to replace him. I was prepared to hive him a go as ultimately what we all want is success on the pitch.

Hodgson has been a complete disaster for this club, performances on the pitch are clueless and dire. His utterances are so out of touch, arrogant and inept I now hate the guy.

edited.
Yet carragher in today's independent supports Roy but has notably been silent on Rafa and allegedly was one of the senior players pressing for his sacking. Interstingly Carra' managed to get a new contract from Purslow.

Saddens me the way people dis' Rafa
Goodbye & thank you Rafa. You've given us more than we ever had a right to expect from you and you stayed loyal and fought for us even when some of our own turned on you. I truly hope that you find somewhere with the support that you deserve & win everything in sight.

Offline Lofty Ambitions

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #383 on: October 21, 2010, 03:59:53 pm »
OK. So let us assume NESV is studying the process of how we ended up changing managers... I know I would if I'd be them.

Being businessmen, they would not be cryin about any spilled milk  :wave , but would look at how to fix the situation, first and foremost. Thank gawd they decided to watch the Bitters game in person!

First, do we know, or can we make an educated guess, who were the candidates?

Secondly, Did Kenny first recommend an international for the job?

Third, when it became clear it would be an Englishman, he opted for volunteering himself as believing he would be the man for the transition? Something like that?

I know this has been discussed ad nauseum. But amidst rumours, I would guess that's how NESV would logically try to sort this out? First look at what happened. Then consult Kenny. Then make a decision?
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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #384 on: October 21, 2010, 04:06:03 pm »
I look forward to the day when Carragher is a pundit and criticises a defender for not keeping the ball on the deck.

How I will laugh.

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #385 on: October 21, 2010, 04:08:50 pm »
Some might require subtitles in that event.

:D

though, if Merson's unintelligible babblings are allowed to air with no subs then Carra should have no problem..
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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #386 on: October 21, 2010, 04:20:15 pm »
though, if Merson's unintelligible babblings are allowed to air with no subs then Carra should have no problem..
That's probably because it's not worth the bother to type out what he says . Not a rewarding read either

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #387 on: October 21, 2010, 04:38:41 pm »
Just to follow up on my thoughts posted in the "The Job" thread regarding the (hoped-for) new manager and looking to the future. I think it's telling that some thought the thread to be an apology for Rafael Benitez even though it was solely intended to be forward-looking. Most people got that, some didn't. The thread has since had moments of back and forth arguments about Pellegrini, Rijkaard and a further mini-debate about Rafa's faults, successes, mistakes, etc. So much seems to come back around to him still. I sense that there's a deep wound here still being felt by a portion of the club's support that won't fully be healed until we get back what we've lost, what we feel cheated out of. Meanwhile, another section of fans are telling us "he's gone, get over him." But what we've lost isn't merely Rafael Benitez, it's what he represented, and until we have a man in charge with a vision and the talent to see it through, with ambition, who gets us (the supporters, the club, the city), who's a winner made of the same stuff as Shankly (and as far as myself and others like me are concerned, Rafa ticked all those boxes), then he'll be discussed, brought up, fondly remembered, and those who wanted him gone, don't miss him one bit or are just single-minded enough to forget him will tell us to stop talking about him. That's how it's going to be, and as I see it, there's only one to close this wound - the day another man walks into this club with a vision and the talent to see it through, with ambition, who gets us (the supporters, the club, the city), who's a winner made of the same stuff as Shankly. It doesn't have to be Rafa, but unless he ticks most of those boxes, there'll always be a certain sadness at what we were cheated out of.

What were we cheated out of and how? We were cheated out of seeing such a man realise his vision, first by his undermining by incompetent owners and managing directors, and then by his dismissal and replacement by someone his exact opposite, a man with no ambition, who sees a win at Goodison Park as a "utopia." And why? Was it really just the 7th place, or was it something else? Quite a few of us (probably the minority in truth, but a sizeable one) think not, and as a result, we feel cheated, still somewhat disenfranchised despite the exits of Hicks and Gillett, and angry. We feel like we're living in a parallel universe. The other dimension (where Rafa spent £300m on 100+ players) tells us that Benitez was rubbish and lucky to survive as long as he did, whereas over here in our little world he he was building a dynasty at Anfield, or at least attempting to, with lesser resources relative to his rivals. For them, Roy Hodgson is a better manager, for us he was made from the same stuff as Bill Shankly himself, a man whose ambition was to build Liverpool up and up and up until everyone else just gave in. To them he was a "cold political animal," to us he got the fans, the club and the city perfectly and always came across as one of us. He was dignified and polite, with a sense of humour and an unwillingness to allow just anyone into the inner-sanctum. He outed Hicks and Gillett as conmen, he understood Hillsborough and, most of all, he was a winner. Yes, we saw the mistakes, the games that got away from us, the signings that didn't work out, but those things never obscured the successes and the progress. No need to list them here, just follow the link below:


Most importantly of all, Benitez had a vision, to build us up and up and up until everyone else just gave in. Sound familiar? But he never got the chance to complete that vision, and hence we feel cheated. We feel cheated by how that came to pass. He made mistakes but the mistakes were magnified and twisted to obscure the brilliant work he did. His new employers from spring 2007 onwards undermined him at every turn, from the desecration of his transfer budget to meeting other managers behind his back. He dealt with a ravenous, insulting, in some cases xenophobic media who repeatedly criticised his methods even as they worked splendidly (e.g. zonal-marking, which earned Pepe Reina three Golden Gloves awards and a share of a fourth). It often got personal, and the deep-rooted resentment of him and attempted destruction of his reputation continues to this day. So we feel cheated, not only because a football manager made of the finest Shankly fibre wasn't able to complete his vision, but the manner in which it happened, and we resent those who made it happen - the media (pundits, writers, bloggers, whoever), Hicks and Gillett, Purslow, certain players who it now appears clear wanted him out for no positive reason, even sections of our own fellow supporters who wanted him out either because they were naive enough to think we'd get a Mourinho or because they were misguided enough to think that it was all Benitez's fault. He could take his share of the blame for some wrong turns, but he was far from finished. Alex Ferguson once led Manchester United to successive 11th and 13th place finishes. Managers sometimes have bad spells. The best recover.

And everytime idiots like Souness, Gray, Whelan, Lawrenson, Claridge, Merson, Dunphy or Collymore open their mouths, they twist the knife. Every time we concede soft goals or ask Torres to play like Bobby Zamora, every week we spend in the relegation zone, every boneheaded comment from our manager that makes us cringe, every time our team goes out and shows neither fight nor tactical awareness, every time we see promising, creative players like Aquilani, Insua and Agger marginalised or bombed out altogether, every time we see Paul Konchecky taken to the cleaners by a winger (be it Nani or Seamus Coleman), every time we see Christian Poulsen do anything (or not, as the case may be), every time we see Agger on the bench or at left-back, we are reminded of what we lost. Again, I repeat, NOT JUST RAFA, but an ambitious, talented manager with a plan. To those who want us to get over that, let me ask you this: can you give that back to us? Can NESV? Hopefully. Whoever it is will have to tick some of those boxes mentioned earlier, and if they do and get us back to winning ways, then someday the wound might heal (I really hope it does). For now, John W. Henry has been the disinfectant that stopped the wound going septic, but it's still there. He's gone, get over him? Then why, almost five months after his exit, do articles and broadcasts appear almost every day seeking to put the blame on him for Roy Hodgson's mediocre start as Liverpool boss? Well I've got a shocking admission, Rafa is partially to blame for Hodgson looking so bad - he gave him an impossible act to follow. And it's the act we're still remembering every bit as much as the man.
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Offline 1021

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #388 on: October 21, 2010, 04:47:39 pm »
Fucking fantastic E2K.

Well I've got a shocking admission, Rafa is partially to blame for Hodgson looking so bad - he gave him an impossible act to follow. And it's the act we're still remembering every bit as much as the man.

Loved that bit.
I got the Lucas thing wrong. Will be right on Henderson though. Play him RM, play him CM - Not good enough and never will be.

Offline Bladerunner

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #389 on: October 21, 2010, 04:48:39 pm »
Blimey E2K, I don't often post, but that is an absolutely perfect summation of what my feelings are. Many thanks.  :wave
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Offline Passmaster Molby

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #390 on: October 21, 2010, 04:57:58 pm »
Yeah so E2k just continues to churn out quality, in depth, well thought out posts - nice read once again.

He's like the pied piper of sensible discussion.

Offline Shabby

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #391 on: October 21, 2010, 05:01:29 pm »
Absolutely, fucking fantastic post E2K!
£15m? It seems low, but what people have to remember is that the fee is irrelevant.

Offline Skuzzlebutt

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #392 on: October 21, 2010, 05:06:00 pm »
:wellin E2K

You've done it again you man genius you!!
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Offline muchtyred

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #393 on: October 21, 2010, 05:18:54 pm »
Fucking fantastic E2K, you could not hit the nail on the head anymore perfectly!!   :wellin

Offline Diomedieocre

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #394 on: October 21, 2010, 05:21:51 pm »
Dont agree with it lads...if more than one person agree`s with you it`s mob mentality dont you know.  :o

Offline Robinred

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #395 on: October 21, 2010, 05:23:12 pm »
Yep, it's a rare gift indeed to crystalise the thoughts, fears and feelings of a disaffected, disparate group and express them precisely and with rare insight.

Hats off to you.
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Offline Lofty Ambitions

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #396 on: October 21, 2010, 05:23:43 pm »

Thank you for sharing again, E2K!
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Offline V77

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #397 on: October 21, 2010, 05:25:36 pm »
The most accurate observation, fantastic E2K!

I wish NESV and their sports channel can offer you (and a few others who post on here) a platform big enough, from which you could spread your gospel of truth, and ram the ill-informed, lazy, biased and outright stupid commentry of the hacks and their partly ingnorant and stupid, partly blindfolded, hi-jacked, paycheque-to-mouth 'experts' (ex-experts really, used to be good at something a long time ago), back down their throats until they choke on their words.

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Offline The Jackal

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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #398 on: October 21, 2010, 05:32:15 pm »
 :thumbup  good stuff E2K.
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Re: In 6 months, the Benitez era will look like a Golden Age
« Reply #399 on: October 21, 2010, 05:33:14 pm »
Outstanding post E2K. Perceptive and touching.