Topic: Wrong tactics for the players we have

[gazzathered]

Dont know if this has been discussed elsewhere but this is something i keep thinking about.

In my opinion Rafa's tactics are to try and win a game 1-0 and sets the team up to not lose first and foremost.
I dont think we have the players to do this and we'd be a lot lot better if we attacked and played to our strengths.
When i look at our squad the only players that are defence minded are Masch, Carra, Skrtel and Kyriakos. Of course Reina.
The rest of the players are better when there attacking. The likes of Johnson and Insua are much better going forward than defending. Agger is great with the ball at his feet.
Gerrard, Benayoun, Babel, Aqua, Maxi, Torres,Kuyt, Ngog,Riera are all attack minded players, so why do we play so defensive.
Lucas is alot better going forward than he is backwards, in the few games hes been allowed to attack hes been alot better.

I cant believe theres been games when weve only had a couple of shots on target. I think yesterday we only had 1 and were playing at home.
When we do attack we only have Torres in the box.
I think the players havent helped Benitez this year but his tactics are to blame for this poor season.

The summer is a massive one for LFC, our tactics must change  if we are to progress.

[Nebnotsew]

The way I see it is last year we controlled games due to the presence of Alonso. This season the plan was to have a more expansive game with lots of movement to compensate for his loss. Due to Aquilani being injured for the majority of the season we haven't adapted to these new tactics as our midfield pairing of Mascherano+Lucas is missing the qualities we need (movement, quickness of thought, forward movement).

[itsgunnabebarnes!]

Dont know if this has been discussed elsewhere but this is something i keep thinking about.

In my opinion Rafa's tactics are to try and win a game 1-0 and sets the team up to not lose first and foremost.
I dont think we have the players to do this and we'd be a lot lot better if we attacked and played to our strengths.
When i look at our squad the only players that are defence minded are Masch, Carra, Skrtel and Kyriakos. Of course Reina.
The rest of the players are better when there attacking. The likes of Johnson and Insua are much better going forward than defending. Agger is great with the ball at his feet.
Gerrard, Benayoun, Babel, Aqua, Maxi, Torres,Kuyt, Ngog,Riera are all attack minded players, so why do we play so defensive.
Lucas is alot better going forward than he is backwards, in the few games hes been allowed to attack hes been alot better.

I cant believe theres been games when weve only had a couple of shots on target. I think yesterday we only had 1 and were playing at home.
When we do attack we only have Torres in the box.
I think the players havent helped Benitez this year but his tactics are to blame for this poor season.

The summer is a massive one for LFC, our tactics must change  if we are to progress.

Mentality has to chance for me, and also lose a few of the players who lack basic footballer qualities.

[LFCfan4Life]

unless torres is playing all our backup strikers are shit. kuyt is painful and Ngog is nothing but potential still

thats the problem plain and simple

Due to Aquilani being injured for the majority of the season we haven't adapted to these new tactics as our midfield pairing of Mascherano+Lucas is missing the qualities we need (movement, quickness of thought, forward movement).

think you will find it was our strikers(bar torres), wingers and captain that have lacked most of those three qualities all season

[MagicB8all]

I think Rafa is too cerebral. He plays too much chess with the opponents. I'm not sure of the reason. Could be his nature or the fact he doesn't truly believe in the cutting edge of the team. If Torres doesn't play or is off form we have no cutting edge.

I think for Rafa to play a more positive game he needs more "magicians" people who can unlock defenses consistently and either score or set up goals. He also needs a few of these so he can compensate for being marked out of the game and loss of form. Rafa seems to think this way too, hence  Garcia, Benayoun,  the search for Silva etc. He's trying to find players - the 3 behind Torres that can support Torres, create and score. The problem is those players are rare and costly.

[Carra23]

unless torres is playing all our backup strikers are shit. kuyt is painful and Ngog is nothing but potential still

thats the problem plain and simple

That's how I also see it.

[hoonin]

Do you have a bad hairdo and write for the Mirror by any chance?

[buzzing]

Lacking strikers

Also we brought Aquilani. But if he stays fit, I just can't see him doing his "thing" from the DM slot. Him and Gerrard playing for the same spot?

[CF999]

What a unique viewpoint you bring.

[LFCfan4Life]

Lacking strikers

Also we brought Aquilani. But if he stays fit, I just can't see him doing his "thing" from the DM slot. Him and Gerrard playing for the same spot?

we dont have two DM spots one is a DM(masch and lucas can fill in like against Atleti or chelsea) and one plays box to box(lucas/aquilani/gerrard)

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

Lacking strikers

Also we brought Aquilani. But if he stays fit, I just can't see him doing his "thing" from the DM slot. Him and Gerrard playing for the same spot?

agree.
aquilani has looked far better in the hole.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

unless torres is playing all our backup strikers are shit. kuyt is painful and Ngog is nothing but potential still

thats the problem plain and simple

Pretty much sums up what I think. Kuyt is OK for me on the right or as second striker in a 4-4-2 but don't like him up top alone, just not quite right. The ball rarely sticks to him due to his poor first touch and he hasn't much pace for all his running. Don't get me wrong I like him as a player but not up top. Ngog is good but still way too raw for me.

I don't think the tactics are all wrong. So often small details have undone us. Sometimes I think Rafa needs wider margins in his thinking perhaps.

We could do with learning to do better attacking corners. And I can't see why someone else can't deliver and leave Stevie on the edge of the box. At least from one side of the field. And someone needs to be ready to break faster from our own box when we're defending a set piece.

[Degs]

Inflexibility when not all players are fit.

Exactly the same formation, speed, attitude regardless of whether we have a full strength team or are down to the bare bones, whether we're playing Wigan at home or Chelsea away.

When Torres isn't playing it's unfair to stick one of Kuyt or Ngog up top on their own as they're not good enough to do it.  When Aquilani isn't fit it's wrong to expect Lucas to do the same job with no extra support around him, and the same goes for Insua - if he's getting ripped week in week out then help him out.

Ideally I'd love to see

------------Reina----------------

Johnson---Carra---Agger---?

------------Masch---------------


-----Gerrard------Aquilani-------
Maxi-----------------------Benny

-------------Torres-------------

When at home.
When players aren't fit then throw the likes of Babel alongside Ngog or Kuyt ina  4-4-2, when Gerrard isn't fit play Lucas there but push Aquilani right behind Torres.

I'm not saying this is right just making a point we have many options that are never, ever, ever explored.

[itsgunnabebarnes!]

while we play one up top we are never going to be able to attract a good second striker to help nando.

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

while we play one up top we are never going to be able to attract a good second striker to help nando.

who has ever linked well with torres through his career?
only player ive known is gerarrd and he plays behind him

[itsgunnabebarnes!]

who has ever linked well with torres through his career?
only player ive known is gerarrd and he plays behind him

im certain if the mancs got there hands on nando he would not play up top on his own.
i

[Chakan]

who has ever linked well with torres through his career?
only player ive known is gerarrd and he plays behind him

Villa?

[killer_heels]

who has ever linked well with torres through his career?
only player ive known is gerarrd and he plays behind him

So? Until Torres becomes capable again to playing the majority of the league matches rather than being injured for loads of them, we cannot have a system which is so inflexible that it only suits him.

None of our strikers apart from Torres play well on their own.

[itsgunnabebarnes!]

So? Until Torres becomes capable again to playing the majority of the league matches rather than being injured for loads of them, we cannot have a system which is so inflexible that it only suits him.

None of our strikers apart from Torres play well on their own.

exactly, we need to be flexible, and i dont buy this shite he can only play on his own, he will have to adjust.

[Degs]

Drogba, Anelka, Kalou, Sturridge
Rooney, Berbatov, Owen, Macheda, Wellbeck.
Van Persie, Eduardo, Bendtner
Defoe, Pavlyuchenko, Crouch, Keane, Gudjohnson.
Adebayor, Tevez, Santa Cruz, Bellamy, Robinho
Carew, Agbonlahor, Heskey, Delfouneso, Harewood.

Then we have:
Torres, Kuyt, Ngog

[liverbnz]

Villa?

Not really. Playing with Villa takes a lot away from Torres' game. Villa will almost always occupy the centre which kinda leaves Torres a little stranded on the wings at times. Never done Spain any harm though.

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

So? Until Torres becomes capable again to playing the majority of the league matches rather than being injured for loads of them, we cannot have a system which is so inflexible that it only suits him.

None of our strikers apart from Torres play well on their own.

yeah he doesnt do bad on his own.
i do think we have a problem though with the lone role at times though.
this must take a bit out of him and i reckon he is told not ot bust a gut chasing back too much which causes other problems for the team.

a decent backup would solve this.


and anyway i was pointing out that having a player alongside may not actually be a good thing.

robbie keane...........

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

exactly, we need to be flexible, and i dont buy this shite he can only play on his own, he will have to adjust.

if he adjust great.
i just hope he can

[killer_heels]

Not really. Playing with Villa takes a lot away from Torres' game. Villa will almost always occupy the centre which kinda leaves Torres a little stranded on the wings at times. Never done Spain any harm though.

Thats not true at all. Villa gets more joy playing for Spain compared to Torres because Villa is a better all round player and, more importantly, is able to fit into the Spanish national teams style of play (possession football, slower buildup, less direct etc.) rather than Torres for whom it is not completely suited.

[Chakan]

Not really. Playing with Villa takes a lot away from Torres' game. Villa will almost always occupy the centre which kinda leaves Torres a little stranded on the wings at times. Never done Spain any harm though.

Was the only person that I could think of being played next to Torres though... he hasn't really played a lot of 4-4-2

[itsgunnabebarnes!]

if he adjust great.
i just hope he can

so do i.

[litmanen37]

I would actually have tried 3 at the back this season - I think it would've suited the players we had better - and let's face it we couldn't have done much worse. Something along the lines of:

Reina

Carra
Skrtel      Agger
Johnson                                     Insua

Masch      Gerrard

Aquilani

Kuyt      Torres

Obviously injuries permitting etc.... and Lucas could come in for Aquilani if we wanted Gerrard further up the pitch depending on the opposition. And Zeus could come in for Skrtel etc.....

I just think that firstly Carra hasn't got the legs he once did but still reads the game like a book so the "sweeper" role may suit him. Then you have Skrtel/Zeus as the aerial prescence at the back and Agger the ball player that can bring the ball out.

Both Johnson and Insua's strengths are going forward as opposed to defending and would be much better suited to a wing back role.

Aquiliani looks to struggle in a 2 man central midfield but with the protection of 2 other midfielders along side him could be accomodated and given more freedom. Depending on the opposition Lucas could come in for him.

Then you still have the goals of Torres and the industry of Kuyt in the side.


I'm probably talking shite but just something I had been thinking about recently.

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

Was the only person that I could think of being played next to Torres though... he hasn't really played a lot of 4-4-2

he did plenty for atletico.

[Chakan]

he did plenty for atletico.

Did he link up well with whomever he played with... can't say I have seen much of him when he played for atletico

[MagicB8all]

he did plenty for atletico.

And wasn't great in it!  When Torres plays we almost certainly will play 4231 - what we need is for Torres to get better support from the wingers and players like AA.
When Torres doesn't play - 442 or any formation that suits the backup striker (let's hope it's not Kuyt).

[Fordy]

So? Until Torres becomes capable again to playing the majority of the league matches rather than being injured for loads of them, we cannot have a system which is so inflexible that it only suits him.

None of our strikers apart from Torres play well on their own.

Spot on Killer. Its total madness that when Torres is out for long periods we  stick with a formation that is set to suit Torres.

Its even worse when the manager thinks that playing Mash and Lucas together in the team when Torres is out and we have Ngog or Kuyt up top.

I honestly believe Rafa is a good manager but he isnt this tactical genius that some people make out. His tactics this season havent been bold enough and we have paid the price because of it.

[itsgunnabebarnes!]

Spot on Killer. Its total madness that when Torres is out for long periods we  stick with a formation that is set to suit Torres.

Its even worse when the manager thinks that playing Mash and Lucas together in the when Torres is out and we have Ngog or Kuyt up top.

I honestly believe Rafa is a good manager but he isnt this tactical genius that some people make out. His tactics this season havent been bold enough and we have paid the price because of it.

the only thing rafa is a tactical genius at is stopping teams.

[owens_2k]

The fact that people rate Lucas as a midfielder worthy to start for us just shows how much of a decline we have had.

[Promised to never post on RAWK again]

The best tactical plan or formation is the one that allows each player to maximize their utility for their teammates and the expression of their full potential. The choice of tactical formation is necessarily constrained by the qualities of the players available. Selecting the best possible team not only requires finding the right combination of players for the chosen formation, but also finding right formation for the chosen players.

In my humble opinion, we are only one class attacking LB away from a great 4-4-2 (diamond) formation ...

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[technocow]

I think it works fine when we have Torres. It's what to do when we don't have him. We seriously need another striker. Hopefully this Jovanovic guy is on his way and maybe someone else if (big if) we can get the funds.

[Cid]

I completely agree with the original post. We always, always look a better team on the front foot, and letting the team off the leash brought us the closest to the league for a long time.

There will be many in here saying they hope rafa changes our approach but they know and i know that isn't possible. It is in his nature to stifle a game and when times are troubled he always falls back to that.

[Rome_1977]

The fact that people rate Lucas as a midfielder worthy to start for us just shows how much of a decline we have had.

Couldn't disagree more!!

[SwedenRed]

I completely agree with the original post. We always, always look a better team on the front foot, and letting the team off the leash brought us the closest to the league for a long time.

There will be many in here saying they hope rafa changes our approach but they know and i know that isn't possible. It is in his nature to stifle a game and when times are troubled he always falls back to that.

Agree with this.

[The 5th Benitle]

The fact that people rate Lucas as a midfielder worthy to start for us just shows how much of a decline we have had.

YAWN. and WRONG.

Back to the topic of discussion though, I don't believe we should tinker with Torres' strengths. I also doubt he would be able to adapt his game quickly. We therefore need a wide player who can play games wide but do a job up front on his own as back up when Torres is out.

[robbie keane]

The main frustration for me is the lack of pace and creativity, we are predictable and one dimensional at times. I am not of the opinion that the players are bad but that we need to add to the team and employ the players we have in a better way. We need to ask more questions of the opposition rather than worrying about them also.