Author Topic: 70,000 seats my arse (Read 59269 times)

Mad Men · « **Reply #920 on:** August 7, 2011, 10:44:00 PM »

It has been pointed put we don't get or have the volume of match day attendees clubs in London potentially have or man utd get with stats to back it up...and the costs to build a 60,000 stadia is over whelming to say the least.

Groundshare may be a viable choice when push comes to shove in the long term though more information would be needed on it to be able to even discuss it.

Question is: how much debt do we want to put ourselves in with a new stadium? And for how long?

Azi · « **Reply #921 on:** August 8, 2011, 12:47:52 AM »

peter stupid question but

are football stadiums insured like buildings ? not for injuries or what not if they were to be destroyed by say riots what not like whats happening in tottehnam just now

SP · « **Reply #922 on:** August 8, 2011, 10:23:15 AM »

Quote from: Azi on August 8, 2011, 12:47:52 AM

peter stupid question but

are football stadiums insured like buildings ? not for injuries or what not if they were to be destroyed by say riots what not like whats happening in tottehnam just now

http://www.noclaimsdiscount.co.uk/i-predict-a-riot-claims-refusal/

But they will have insurance to stump up in the first place, even if the insurers then recover the costs.

Azi · « **Reply #923 on:** August 8, 2011, 01:52:32 PM »

Quote from: Peter McGurk on August 8, 2011, 09:26:03 AM

You're right, it is a stupid question. Maybe you should ask the police.

im not suggesting we all go on and destroy anfield

it just came up in a conversation about the businesses in Tottenham will insurers cover their losses and someone asked are stadiums insured for that kind of thing

Pride-Of-The-Midlands · « **Reply #924 on:** August 11, 2011, 06:13:31 PM »

Quote from: LiamG on August 4, 2011, 09:31:14 PM

Just out of intrest, What were Arsenals average attendances like compared to ours during the past?

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/arse.htm

vs

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/live.htm

Alan_X · « **Reply #925 on:** August 12, 2011, 07:20:15 AM »

Quote from: Pride-Of-The-Midlands on August 11, 2011, 06:13:31 PM

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/arse.htm

vs

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/live.htm

Thanks for that - I thought Arsenal's attendances were higher than that. They jumped 22,000 from Highbury to the Emirates but Highbury was clearly way too small for a club in that location.

Zeb · « **Reply #926 on:** August 12, 2011, 10:37:43 AM »

Quote from: Alan_F on August 12, 2011, 07:20:15 AM

Thanks for that - I thought Arsenal's attendances were higher than that. They jumped 22,000 from Highbury to the Emirates but Highbury was clearly way too small for a club in that location.

The interesting thing about the Emirates move is the vast majority of the expanded capacity went to new STs and corporates. Will try to dig out the info I had on it a while ago. The number of non-ST/corporate/super platinum doublegood plus plus seats is (or at least was when the move first happened) almost identical to the number at Highbury.

Alan_X · « **Reply #927 on:** August 12, 2011, 10:39:50 AM »

Zeb - that would be interesting.

lfc79 · « **Reply #928 on:** August 12, 2011, 10:45:40 AM »

Looking on the arsenal website now they have still not sold out of the game against us next week and there are loads of tickets on there exchange with prices that go up to £229

redhot-robbie · « **Reply #929 on:** August 12, 2011, 05:02:15 PM »

Quote from: Alan_F on August 12, 2011, 07:20:15 AM

Thanks for that - I thought Arsenal's attendances were higher than that. They jumped 22,000 from Highbury to the Emirates but Highbury was clearly way too small for a club in that location.

Very interesting that. If the majority was season tickets it would be interesting to see if prices dropped and also what Arsenals waiting list was like.

I know the club are trying to make the right decision but do we have any idea of timescales in terms of them deciding on an option?

Alan_X · « **Reply #930 on:** August 12, 2011, 05:04:37 PM »

Quote from: redhot-robbie on August 12, 2011, 05:02:15 PM

Very interesting that. If the majority was season tickets it would be interesting to see if prices dropped and also what Arsenals waiting list was like.

I know the club are trying to make the right decision but do we have any idea of timescales in terms of them deciding on an option?

I don't think prices went down.

Zeb · « **Reply #931 on:** August 12, 2011, 06:56:57 PM »

Quote from: Alan_F on August 12, 2011, 10:39:50 AM

Zeb - that would be interesting.

Think this is one of the things I was looking at. It's by the company who set up their ticketing systems: http://www.redaction.org.uk/downloads/reports/Arsenal%20Case%20Study.pdf

It was written just prior to the move, and they gave the following for Highbury. 22k STs, 30k on the ST waiting list, 68k 'members with a variety of ticketing rights'. Highbury was 38k capacity at the end. So that's 16k left over minus about 600 corporate.

Emirates is 60k capacity. 9k is corporate, 35k STs. So that again is 16k. Their current ST waiting list is 40k.

conman · « **Reply #932 on:** August 12, 2011, 08:07:19 PM »

Here is an article for a little clarity about ST holders from abroad.
Can be used for a little perspective.

Loyal soccer fans paying €6,000 a season

A CASH figure has been put on an Irish person’s loyalty to the top teams in the English premiership. The most dedicated supporters will have little change out of €6,000 by the time the football season ends in May.

The price survey, which was carried out by the Ulster Bank, found that Irish football fans who hold season tickets for one of the “big four” clubs in England will have to spend about €5,500 attending all 19 home games this season once cost of the tickets, return travel, accommodation and spending money are totted up.

The costs climb dramatically if European fixtures are added to the mix.

Manchester United is not only the best supported English club in Ireland it is also the best value club to support, with a season ticket to see the champions at play on the hallowed turf of Old Trafford costing just €805 a year.

Liverpool fans pay €817 but it is the fans of the big London clubs who appear to be victims of the highest prices.

Arsenal have not won a trophy of any significance for a long time but they are still the champions of high-priced tickets. The cost of going to every home game at the club’s ground in north London is an eye-watering €1,516, making it the most expensive club to support in the premier league. Fans of neighbouring Chelsea, meanwhile, are being asked to pay €982 a year.

If they bring their car, Liverpool supporters can expect to shell out about €330 on a return ferry crossing for their team’s first game of the season tomorrow against Sunderland. Booking flights in advance will mean an average cost of €100 per person to attend Manchester United’s first home game against Tottenham, see Arsenal play Liverpool at the Emirates or cheer on Chelsea at home against West Bromwich Albion on August 20th.

A B&B close to any of the stadiums will cost €50 while fans who pick up a match programme and treat themselves to a few pints, pie and chips and snacks at the game can add upwards of €28 in spending money to the cost of their day out.

Zeb · « **Reply #933 on:** August 12, 2011, 10:19:29 PM »

Quote from: Peter McGurk on August 12, 2011, 08:49:43 PM

If total matchday revenue in the first season was £90.1m and the addition of 9k 'corporate' added £31m as it says, it follows that revenue from the remaining 51k was about £60m.

It also follows that the revenue at Highbury from the 38,000 ‘ordinary’ fans was £815 a seat and the revenue at the Emirates from the 51,000 'ordinary' fans was, £1175 a seat or an increase for the ordinary fan of over 40% Despite the £31m from the nobs and a shedload of residential to sell.

Interesting take on the numbers Peter. Quite horrifying isn't it? And that's the 'model' all other clubs are meant to aspire to. I know one way Arsenal leveraged their ST holders from Highbury was to basically prevent them from taking STs at Emirates more than one price band below what they were already paying and with a lot of sales pitching to get them to take on even more expensive STs to get a seat with a decent spec.

Pride-Of-The-Midlands · « **Reply #934 on:** August 14, 2011, 07:55:49 PM »

Quote from: Alan_F on August 12, 2011, 07:20:15 AM

Thanks for that - I thought Arsenal's attendances were higher than that. They jumped 22,000 from Highbury to the Emirates but Highbury was clearly way too small for a club in that location.

What do you think of our attendances?

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/astv.htm

I think they are a bit poor considering the size/history of the club and the size of the city we are located in.

However I guess we do have Blues, Albion, Walsall, Wolves and Coventry right on our doorstep...

Zeb · « **Reply #935 on:** August 18, 2011, 08:26:46 PM »

Interesting comment by Ayre in the Supporters' Committee Meeting:

"The other thing I would say is we also have to understand the maintenance of the balance between what people call hospitality tickets and general admission tickets, and the reason for that is hospitality tickets generate about 50 per cent of the match day revenue, even though they are massively disproportionate to the number. So six or seven per cent of the capacity is generating 50 per cent of the revenue, and without that we'd all be paying a lot more for our seats, so it's important that people grasp that across the board."

Followed up by this comment in response to a question on corporate ticket price rises:

"Phil Dutton: We are currently reviewing the whole pricing structure. We're looking at what other clubs do, some of the clubs down in London are quite creative about how they do their ticket prices and hospitality, particularly Arsenal and Tottenham. The same goes for some of the European clubs so it is something we are aware of."

Smudgester · « **Reply #936 on:** August 19, 2011, 10:08:03 AM »

Quote from: lfc79 on August 12, 2011, 10:45:40 AM

Looking on the arsenal website now they have still not sold out of the game against us next week and there are loads of tickets on there exchange with prices that go up to £229

No surprise they still have tickets left

conman · « **Reply #937 on:** August 20, 2011, 08:27:27 AM »

Saturday August 20 2011
Housing minister Grant Shapps has called on Liverpool to make a swift decision on their stadium plans to prevent ongoing uncertainty in the area.

Club owners Fenway Sports Group's preferred option is to redevelop Anfield but that is looking increasingly difficult. The alternative is a new build on nearby Stanley Park which offers greater regeneration potential for the area.

"Local people in Anfield need certainty and a definite decision on the future of their neighbourhood," Shapps said.

"In the interests of the wider community, the club needs to make a swift decision on whether they plan to build a new stadium or stay where they are - either way the residents around Anfield deserve to know.

"The delay is causing unnecessary uncertainty for the community.

"Local residents are living in limbo. The council has already asked for extra time for the lease on Stanley Park by six months to allow the club time to explore all options, but the quicker Liverpool FC makes a decision, the more options they have."

The club are still assessing both options and have not put a timescale on a decision.

Press Association

CraigDS · « **Reply #938 on:** August 20, 2011, 08:54:24 AM »

Unnecessary!? Yeah taking time to decide on a £200m+ investment is unnecessary.

free_at_last · « **Reply #939 on:** August 21, 2011, 12:17:57 PM »

So the tories are woried about the people of Liverpool after all these years? Rather than trying to get us do their job of regenerating the area they can always divert some of their
bank slush funds and chip in for ther new stadium if they are so worried.

Alan_X · « **Reply #940 on:** August 21, 2011, 01:36:01 PM »

Grant Shapps is my local MP and an utter c*nt. Yes, the club should get their act together but I'm old enough to remember when the regeneration of rundown parts of our cities and the provision of decent housing stock was something that government, local and central, were responsible for.

helmboy_nige · « **Reply #941 on:** August 21, 2011, 05:02:39 PM »

Quote from: Alan_F on August 21, 2011, 01:36:01 PM

Grant Shapps is my local MP and an utter c*nt. Yes, the club should get their act together but I'm old enough to remember when the regeneration of rundown parts of our cities and the provision of decent housing stock was something that government, local and central, were responsible for.

Well said. This whole idea of passing the govts job onto private companies is mental. If we build a new stadium it won't magically create a utopian community all across anfield.

Seems to me that it all rests on naming rights. If they get some massive deal the stadium is on. I think the situation with Man City's joke sponsorship has further muddied the water as some will be asking why Liverpool can't get a £400m deal.

Appreciator of former strikers · « **Reply #942 on:** August 21, 2011, 08:22:47 PM »

Quote from: helmboy_nige on August 21, 2011, 05:02:39 PM

Well said. This whole idea of passing the govts job onto private companies is mental. If we build a new stadium it won't magically create a utopian community all across anfield.

Seems to me that it all rests on naming rights. If they get some massive deal the stadium is on. I think the situation with Man City's joke sponsorship has further muddied the water as some will be asking why Liverpool can't get a £400m deal.

Problem is we don't have a company associated with us. Our owner made his money as a broker and owns other sports stuff now(teams, crews, marketing stuff). What are we going to call it red sox stadium? I expect an announcement at the end of the season. Don't think they want to steal the lime light from on field play and get a debate going when the club just got back on it's feet and working together.

west_london_red · « **Reply #943 on:** August 22, 2011, 08:12:17 PM »

Quote from: Peter McGurk on August 22, 2011, 07:57:35 PM

It seems City's 'Megadeal' may be about £5m a year for stadium naming rights http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2011/08/22/why-manchester-city’s-alleged-financial-fair-play-‘dodge’-is-not-actually-dodgy-at-all-and-might-even-be-an-undervaluation-of-their-worth-220802/

We know, we know, redevelopment is the better option....

Zeb · « **Reply #944 on:** August 23, 2011, 12:06:17 AM »

Quote from: Peter McGurk on August 22, 2011, 07:57:35 PM

It seems City's 'Megadeal' may be about £5m a year for stadium naming rights http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2011/08/22/why-manchester-city’s-alleged-financial-fair-play-‘dodge’-is-not-actually-dodgy-at-all-and-might-even-be-an-undervaluation-of-their-worth-220802/

Which then begs the question why a training complex is worth twice that of a much higher profile venue. It is very, very amusing that the article is forced to put the naming rights for City of Manchester at the c.£5m level whilst also putting shirt rights at a very generous £20m (yes 10 year contract, but that's why you have escalating clauses in contracts to cover such eventualities...) to make some kind of sense of the numbers. The fun thing is that stadium naming rights in the States actually include naming the surrounding complex too. And even at £14m, the Manchester City deal is still record breaking in a kind of 'wtf?' sort of way unless that £14m contains all kinds of massive escalation clauses being hit to get to that number.

Appreciator of former strikers · « **Reply #945 on:** August 24, 2011, 12:37:34 PM »

I an reading the Deloitte money league and they have split revenue into matchday broadcast and commercial. Which category does winnings fall under? Or is it seperate?

redprodigal · « **Reply #946 on:** January 23, 2012, 02:40:57 PM »

Regarding the topic title has anyone considered the fact that we're struggling to sell 39,000 tickets for a Saturday cup tie against our biggest rivals?

CraigDS · « **Reply #947 on:** January 23, 2012, 02:42:02 PM »

Quote from: redprodigal on January 23, 2012, 02:40:57 PM

Regarding the topic title has anyone considered the fact that we're struggling to sell 39,000 tickets for a Saturday cup tie against our biggest rivals?

Are we?

CraigDS · « **Reply #948 on:** January 23, 2012, 02:47:59 PM »

Just looked for myself - its only gone on sale today for Fan Card holders with 1 home PL game this season on their card (so basically General Sale) - before that was on sale to ST holders (a lot will have Auto Cup) and before that Fan Cards who bought Oldham at home tickets.

Looking at the availability plan on the site shows 8 available blocks out of something like 60 home ticket blocks, all but 2 of those at limited availability.

eirwen · « **Reply #949 on:** January 23, 2012, 02:50:05 PM »

Quote from: redprodigal on January 23, 2012, 02:40:57 PM

Regarding the topic title has anyone considered the fact that we're struggling to sell 39,000 tickets for a Saturday cup tie against our biggest rivals?

Are we? I think it's just the short sale period.

redprodigal · « **Reply #950 on:** January 23, 2012, 02:52:24 PM »

Quote from: CraigDS on January 23, 2012, 02:47:59 PM

Just looked for myself - its only gone on sale today for Fan Card holders with 1 home PL game this season on their card (so basically General Sale)

That's what I call struggling.

CraigDS · « **Reply #951 on:** January 23, 2012, 02:54:36 PM »

Quote from: redprodigal on January 23, 2012, 02:52:24 PM

That's what I call struggling.

How is it struggling?

If it had gone to general sale theyd of sold out in a few hours - fact is they went on limited sale to those who had to purchase tickets to the likes of Oldham at home (which wouldn't of been a full stadium).

redprodigal · « **Reply #952 on:** January 23, 2012, 03:32:28 PM »

Quote from: CraigDS on January 23, 2012, 02:54:36 PM

How is it struggling?

If it had gone to general sale theyd of sold out in a few hours - fact is they went on limited sale to those who had to purchase tickets to the likes of Oldham at home (which wouldn't of been a full stadium).

They've been on sale all day to members with only one credit from this season and it's not going to sell out on that so I would consider that struggling.

wiresnreds · « **Reply #953 on:** January 23, 2012, 06:50:28 PM »

Man U will sell out, it is just the way the tickets are being distributed as to why they havent gone yet. I know quite a few people still waiting for general sale if it happens to snatch a ticket up !

eirwen · « **Reply #954 on:** January 23, 2012, 06:54:32 PM »

Quote from: wiresnreds on January 23, 2012, 06:50:28 PM

Man U will sell out, it is just the way the tickets are being distributed as to why they havent gone yet. I know quite a few people still waiting for general sale if it happens to snatch a ticket up !

But normally tickets against man utd sell out way before they lower to 1 credit, no?

Azi · « **Reply #955 on:** January 23, 2012, 07:34:49 PM »

Quote from: redprodigal on January 23, 2012, 02:40:57 PM

Regarding the topic title has anyone considered the fact that we're struggling to sell 39,000 tickets for a Saturday cup tie against our biggest rivals?

for me the reason is the fan card thing

im probably free for 5/6 games a season where i can drive down and get to it and just by chance i can make it to the game on sat if i can get my hand on tickets but because the way the system works i wont get my hands on tickets if it was free for fall id say it would be sold out days ago

CraigDS · « **Reply #956 on:** January 23, 2012, 08:18:03 PM »

Quote from: eirwen on January 23, 2012, 06:54:32 PM

But normally tickets against man utd sell out way before they lower to 1 credit, no?

Depends what the conditions are to buy before it get that far - this time it was to have the Oldham game on the fan card which not all people would of bothered with.

CraigDS · « **Reply #957 on:** January 23, 2012, 08:20:57 PM »

Looking at the interactive stadium thingy the online sales have is only showing tickets available in the paddock and these are classed as limited.

scouse29 · « **Reply #958 on:** January 23, 2012, 08:24:23 PM »

Any stadium with increased capacity will need a balanced ticketing approach.

For me the membership thing will be scrapped, all those extra tickets week on week with an expensive fee to join. There are plenty of fans out there that will happily attend one or two games a season.

Alan_X · « **Reply #959 on:** January 23, 2012, 08:36:01 PM »

Might close this. Things have moved on. Capacity is being discussed in the 'Basombe' thread as well as other things.