Topic: Sami Hyypia - Definitely one that we let go too early!

[Koparoo]

The latest [as at 28/02/2010] Castrol European Players Rankings have been released (ranking player performances across the top 5 European Leagues).
http://www.castrolfootball.com/rankings/rankings/?position=&nation=&team=160&comp=#label

Not too many surprises - except for #10 :

1.   L Messi             1004 points
2.   C Ronaldo          973
3.   F Torres            893
4.   D Villa                878
5.   T Henry              869
6.   D Drogba           861
7.   G Pique              851
8.   W Rooney          840
9.   A Robben           835
10. S Hyypia           825

Hyypia (36) has revitalised his career after a move, and his switch to Leverkusen from Liverpool has helped Jupp Heynckes’ side to keep 11 clean sheets this season with the defender winning 83% of tackles and making 110 clearances.

Great to see the big Finn doing so well for Bayer Leverkusen - just a pity that we didn't keep him for another couple of years and we may not have conceeded so many stupid goals this season!

Anyone else think that we've been so much the poorer this season without him? All the commentators focussed on Alonso leaving but the real weakness has been in our defence.

btw our other players in the top 200 are ranked so far as:

57.   Y Benayoun   726 points
59.   D Kuyt           725
61.   J Reina          724
71.  S Gerrard       717
175 G Johnson      655
193 L Leiva           649
193 M Skrtel          649

The rankings tell us that apart from Nando, we have had a few good players this season (all pretty similarly ranked) but few great ones.
Probably pretty fair?

[CHOPPER]

Maybe if we'd picked him for the Champions league squad he may have stayed.

Can't fault him for going and our own fault for letting him go.

[jamiehill]

I agree about letting him go too early, but he wasn't promised first team football all season. Then again, hindsight is 20:20. Who would have thought there would be a clash of heads between our two first team centre backs in the very first match?

[jaffod]

Not this old chestnut.

Sami wanted 1st team football and wasn't guaranteed it. He only got 5 minutes in his farewell match ffs.

No-one could have foreseen the problems we would have had in defence this season so Sami would have expected to have sat on the bench for most of the season. So he left.

Simple.

[Jason_King]

57.   Y Benayoun   726 points
59.   D Kuyt           725
61.   J Reina          724
71.  S Gerrard       717
175 G Johnson      655
193 L Leiva           649
193 M Skrtel          649

dirk more than Pepe!?

[Rotation]

Stats like these are decieving but that's still pretty fucking remarkable.

[Meako1977]

Great player but it wasnt a mistake letting him go. He wanted 1st team football and we have three centrebacks who where/our ahead of him when it comes to all being on form. Infairness to Sami I think he would have really struggled this season due to the changes in the defence. Having Johnson and Insua in the fullbak positions would have left him vunerable and isolated compared to the tight defensive units we had when Sami was here.

[cezred]

Glad he is doing so well over there. With all the talk of Carra and Stevie one day managing the club I wouldn't be suprised if Sami tops the pair of them. Who knows if he ends up half as good a manager as he was a player he may one day come back home.

[fowlermagic]

Great to see him do well as from what we saw last season too few times he was still our best central defender. Unfortunately we thought some lads 10 years younger than him could do a job

[Neil D]

Maybe if we'd picked him for the Champions league squad he may have stayed.

Can't fault him for going and our own fault for letting him go.

Spot on.

[ashleyrose-66]

What are those stats based on?

Regardless of whether you like him or hate him, how the fuck can Rooney be down at numer 8 after the season he has had??

[stoa]

Maybe if we'd picked him for the Champions league squad he may have stayed.

Can't fault him for going and our own fault for letting him go.

I doubt it was about not being named in the CL-squad or about not feeling appreciated. It's a simple decision based on his role in the team. He would have been our fourth choice centre-back behind two highly rated youngsters and a local lad who has played very well under Rafa. He would have played a role (much like Kyrgiakos, i.e. playing against the very physical sides with good headers upfront), but it would have been very restricted.

Leverkusen came to him and basically told him, he'd be playing every week and they'd be building their defence around him and that's what they've done. He felt that he still has lots of games in him (and he does), but he would never have played the same role at Liverpool as he's now playing at Leverkusen. There is NOTHING we could have done to make him stay, because I seriously doubt it was about appreciation, CL or money. It was simply down to the number of games he was likely to play this season and with our defence it was always likely that that number was going to be higher at Leverkusen.

Injuries, loss of form and the lack of stability in our back four were all things that nobody could have seen coming, so we probably would have played Agger/Skrtel+Carra most of the time...

[exiledintheusa]

Can't wait for him to re-sign in the summer.






Pleeeaaasseee.

[fowlermagic]

I doubt it was about not being named in the CL-squad or about not feeling appreciated. It's a simple decision based on his role in the team. He would have been our fourth choice centre-back behind two highly rated youngsters and a local lad who has played very well under Rafa. He would have played a role (much like Kyrgiakos, i.e. playing against the very physical sides with good headers upfront), but it would have been very restricted.

Leverkusen came to him and basically told him, he'd be playing every week and they'd be building their defence around him and that's what they've done. He felt that he still has lots of games in him (and he does), but he would never have played the same role at Liverpool as he's now playing at Leverkusen. There is NOTHING we could have done to make him stay, because I seriously doubt it was about appreciation, CL or money. It was simply down to the number of games he was likely to play this season and with our defence it was always likely that that number was going to be higher at Leverkusen.

Injuries, loss of form and the lack of stability in our back four were all things that nobody could have seen coming, so we probably would have played Agger/Skrtel+Carra most of the time...

The reason he left was probably down to seeing lads getting starts before him who were not fit to lace his boots. You only have to look Kyrgiakos, a fine defender but a pale version of Sami, nearly becoming a first choice this season. Sami must have been kicking his heels last year as if done right he could easily have been our Paul McGrath. Conserve him for one start a week and you get some legendary performances and a happy camper who knows his legs may not last a full season at this stage. Instead he was going weeks without a game as he started something like 15 games altogether last season. In most of those games he did not put a foot wrong and as he is showing this season in Germany was way too good to be sitting on the bench or stands for lads who has some potential but rarely deserved to start every week ahead of the Big Finn.

[Morientes-19]

Maybe if we'd picked him for the Champions league squad he may have stayed.

Can't fault him for going and our own fault for letting him go.

Well said. We could have done with his experience at the back this season.

[rossipersiempre]

Maybe if we'd picked him for the Champions league squad he may have stayed.

Can't fault him for going and our own fault for letting him go.

The beginning of the end IMO. Particularly as the salt in the wound was that it was Degen who got the final place. Yes, Philip fucking Degen.

Recall reading (possibly Gedo) that the exclusion was the final straw and that Sami burst (sure he would have knocked) into Rafa's office demanding (asking politely) what the fuck was going on (I'm certain he said 'fuck' though) and where he stood. Given this is a player who was a shining example of class and humility throughout his career (Gerrard being given the captaincy for example), it was a crazy decision to leave him out.

As for his leaving, don't know where people get this 'demand' for first team football from - he hadn't demanded it in the previous 2 seasons or so so why now? Think it's far more likely he was seeking more than a 1 year PAYP extension (with some vague mumblings about coaching in the future) under a manager that clearly thought it was time to move him on. Ignoring the fact that Sami was immense at the start of last season and came in fresh as a daisy and gave a masterclass in the United game. Ignoring the fact that said manager had another similarly old and slow CB as a starter who offered much less apart from berating teammates and being, you know, a Scouser, but was untouchable. Still is apparently.

And so, with a fat 2-year contract from Leverkusen on the table and a verbal commitment that they felt the big Finn had a lot to give still, which echoed with his own thoughts, then who could blame him. But let's not kid ourselves that it was anything other than a monumental mistake from Rafa, both in terms of judgment and man-management. Whilst I'm having a dig at Rafa re. Sami, I'll also mention I thought giving him a cursory few mins against Spurs was a bit fucking disrespectful. The game was won, should have given him the opportunity for every header, every block to be cheered from the rafters. Not one for sentiment is Rafa though, although Fowler the Sequel was pretty bizarre to explain otherwise.

I said it at the time before our shambles this season, but our loss (and it was a captain's loss regardless of who wears the armband at present) was Leverkusen's gain. Best of luck to him. I am so incredibly happy for him that he's doing well, even if it is painful to see him going before his time.

[Phil M]

HYYPIA

[rossipersiempre]

OH and can someone confirm as I'm not 100% sure but didn't Rafa leave Sami out of the CL squad TWICE?

I know he did for the group games, probably because of the quota and El Zhar and Keane amongst others but it was rationalised as 'oh well, we'll cruise through and the big man will be back in Feb for the business end'. But then some injuries and we apparently needed RB cover so Degen got his place when the squads were resubmitted in Jan. The second snub of which caused Sami to go apeshit and rightly so. Am I remembering that right?

[the_prodigal_s0n]

OH and can someone confirm as I'm not 100% sure but didn't Rafa leave Sami out of the CL squad TWICE?

I know he did for the group games, probably because of the quota and El Zhar and Keane amongst others but it was rationalised as 'oh well, we'll cruise through and the big man will be back in Feb for the business end'. But then some injuries and we apparently needed RB cover so Degen got his place when the squads were resubmitted in Jan. The second snub of which caused Sami to go apeshit and rightly so. Am I remembering that right?

No. It was last season that he was left out. He was recalled in January. However, he didn't get any games in Europe that year.

[rossipersiempre]

HYYPIA

You're being pedantic about the spelling of a non-phonetic Finnish surname when we had a thread about the decomposition of "fishes"?

That said, I always have to think myself when spelling his name, probably why I prefer use his first name .

[rossipersiempre]

No. It was last season that he was left out. He was recalled in January. However, he didn't get any games in Europe that year.

Just checked, you're right thanks.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2009/02/06/sami-hyypia-s-delight-at-champions-league-squad-return-for-liverpool-fc-100252-22871121/

SAMI HYYPIA has revealed his delight at being restored to Liverpool’s Champions League squad, but admitted he might have considered quitting the club during the January transfer window.

The former captain, who helped the Reds lift the European Cup in 2005, was devastated to be left out of Liverpool’s 25-man European squad in August.

UEFA rules limit the number of foreign players who can be named this season, and Hyypia was the man to suffer during the group stages.

But with the knockout stage now looming, Hyypia is back in contention and he said: “It’s fantastic to be back in the Champions League squad.

“The official squad list was sent to UEFA last Sunday and as normal the manager was considering the list until the last minute.

“On Sunday he told me that I was in the squad. It’s fantastic and I believe Liverpool can do well in the Champions League.”

But Hyypia, speaking on his Finnish blog, also revealed that he might have considered ending his 10-year association with the club in January.

“There were a lot of rumours and a few offers as well,” he explained. “Sunderland and Newcastle were mentioned in the press and were both really interested in signing me. Many other teams were interested too.

“Liverpool made it clear that they were not willing to sell me. That was it, although I might have considered another option.

“The club decide these things and of course a player can say he would like the club to listen to the offers if the player is unhappy, but if the club doesn’t want to sell there is not much a player can do. Liverpool didn’t want to sell me even though I might have considered another option.

So I will spend the rest of the season in Liverpool. This is my 10th season and it is a great achievement. Liverpool is a big club where players come and go.

“Only a few players spend most of their careers in the same club nowadays and spending 10 years in a club where you have to fight for your place in the team every week and surviving the fight is something you learn to appreciate after you retire.

“I will consider my options again in the summer when my current contract with Liverpool expires.

“It’s too early to say what is going to happen then. It’s not my style to worry about these kind of things in advance. Now I will concentrate on helping my team to win trophies in a role the manager decides, whether it’s on the bench or on the pitch.”

[Phil M]

You're being pedantic about the spelling of a non-phonetic Finnish surname when we had a thread about the decomposition of "fishes"?

Yes.


Sami Hyypiä

[stoa]

Conserve him for one start a week and you get some legendary performances and a happy camper who knows his legs may not last a full season at this stage.

That doesn't change the fact that we have three other centrebacks who also need the games to be kept happy with one of them being already a legend at the club and a local lad and the others being two highly rated youngsters one of them being courted by Milan last season. Sami has played 25 games for Leverkusen this season and the only game he has missed was due to suspension after his 5th booking. He has played 90 minutes in all of those games except once where he was subbed off after 74 minutes. Do you really think we could have offered him that? Do you think we should have built our defence around him like Leverkusen have done? Do you honestly think we should have shipped out either one of Skrtel or Agger to accommodate a player who will turn 37 this year?

To make one thing perfectly clear, I would have loved it, if we had been able to keep Sami and the way he has been handled might have been not the best. He is a legend and as he has been showing for Leverkusen and in the games he played for us last season, he's still a class defender. However, the decision to sell him was the right one and the best solution for everyone involved.

[AriGold]

What a guy. I miss him

[Litmanen10]

10 years at the club and you can't even spell his name right...

Better than Carragher for sure, always was and always will be.

[The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society]

No we didn't let him go too early, he served us well, he deserved the respect of being allowed to pursue first team football. We brought in a younger and very experienced replacement for a pittance and he has proved to be worth every penny. I love Sami but if everyone was fit he was never going to be first choice at this club. Perhaps the problem with us this season is that we haven't been able to pick a consistent first choice defence all season, just a thought.

P.S - Made up he's doing so well.

[fowlermagic]

Time catches up with us all but I always believe in playing the guy on form and last season Sami’s form was always on but getting rested for lads who sometimes were struggling. Now we are probably going to replace one of these potentials this summer for a player who can actually control the box and handle anything that comes at us in the air That is two seasons (last & this) where Sami could have started 35 plus games each year & do an excellent job.

The last thing I would be worried about is keeping a weaker player happy who is more than likely getting the heave ho anyway. 

Its not even a crystal ball situation either as you could see how comfortable he was when ever he played and how an extra leader on the park would be a huge plus especially when we tits up this season. Not only defensively is he better but offensively our present central defenders could not score in a brothel. In due course when all their careers are done they (Carragher, Agger, Skrtel) will probably score less goals combined than Sami.

Anyway the man is a legend and the Germans know what they got and we just did not know what we were losing until you saw the defensive impression of the Stooges we have been getting all year.

[gazzathered]

Badly missed by us and i thought he had a great last season.

[Mighty_Red]

Not this old chestnut.

Sami wanted 1st team football and wasn't guaranteed it. He only got 5 minutes in his farewell match ffs.

No-one could have foreseen the problems we would have had in defence this season so Sami would have expected to have sat on the bench for most of the season. So he left.

Simple.

What he said. Put the CL omission to one side, that was purely common sense and Sami just fell foul of the homegrown players rule, If Agger & Srktel were fit, there was no chance that Sami wouldve got as many games as he did, which is the reason why he left.

I'm made up for Sami, who remains a class act. Theres no doubt that we wouldv'e rather he stayed, but hou have to also consider that, after a dodgy start, Kiri has come in and played well, in the "Sami" role of 4th choice defender. Our defensive problems are bigger than any single player

[rossipersiempre]

Yes.


Sami Hyypiä

Upping the ante eh? You know what you can do with that umlaut don't you

[jeremyh94]

I think he quit us and we quit him while we were all ahead. So he remains a legend. And he continues to thrive in that German league which is a great deal slower (Voronin did well there, remember).
There'll be a time Jamie Carragher needs to take a leaf out of his book.

[Samee]

Sorry but I can't take a list that places Gerrard as the 71st best player in the world seriously.

[danwms]

Awesome player.

[jckliew]

L-E-G-E-N-D

[Ski]

Is, was and always will be a class man and player.

made up he's doing so well. so wished he'd stayed but fully understood why he left.

[disainit]

The beginning of the end IMO. Particularly as the salt in the wound was that it was Degen who got the final place. Yes, Philip fucking Degen.

Recall reading (possibly Gedo) that the exclusion was the final straw and that Sami burst (sure he would have knocked) into Rafa's office demanding (asking politely) what the fuck was going on (I'm certain he said 'fuck' though) and where he stood. Given this is a player who was a shining example of class and humility throughout his career (Gerrard being given the captaincy for example), it was a crazy decision to leave him out.

As for his leaving, don't know where people get this 'demand' for first team football from - he hadn't demanded it in the previous 2 seasons or so so why now? Think it's far more likely he was seeking more than a 1 year PAYP extension (with some vague mumblings about coaching in the future) under a manager that clearly thought it was time to move him on. Ignoring the fact that Sami was immense at the start of last season and came in fresh as a daisy and gave a masterclass in the United game. Ignoring the fact that said manager had another similarly old and slow CB as a starter who offered much less apart from berating teammates and being, you know, a Scouser, but was untouchable. Still is apparently.

And so, with a fat 2-year contract from Leverkusen on the table and a verbal commitment that they felt the big Finn had a lot to give still, which echoed with his own thoughts, then who could blame him. But let's not kid ourselves that it was anything other than a monumental mistake from Rafa, both in terms of judgment and man-management. Whilst I'm having a dig at Rafa re. Sami, I'll also mention I thought giving him a cursory few mins against Spurs was a bit fucking disrespectful. The game was won, should have given him the opportunity for every header, every block to be cheered from the rafters. Not one for sentiment is Rafa though, although Fowler the Sequel was pretty bizarre to explain otherwise.

I said it at the time before our shambles this season, but our loss (and it was a captain's loss regardless of who wears the armband at present) was Leverkusen's gain. Best of luck to him. I am so incredibly happy for him that he's doing well, even if it is painful to see him going before his time.

For all the meticulosity with which you've used to point out negative aspects in HINDSIGHT, you've
overlooked a simple one which would have given ANY sane manager (let alone Rafa) a valid reason to
let go of him: he's 37 this year.

If you're always looking for ways to have dig at Rafa, you'll always find one. As you will anyone.

[mildale]

He will be back one day. Of that, I am sure, probably in a coaching role.

[technocow]

who comes up with these stats anyway?? Pepe 61??? He is one of the best, maybe even best keeper in the world right now and he's 61st, probably bellow van der sar.

[TheVoiceOfRiise]

What are those stats based on?

Regardless of whether you like him or hate him, how the fuck can Rooney be down at numer 8 after the season he has had??

exactly right.

Torres at 3?? do injuries count or something?

pleased for hyypia tho'. Quality servant for this club and i'm glad he's enjoying his football as his career as a player comes to an end. Go on big sami lad!

[Redcap]

These Castrol rankings have just appeared over the course of the past year. I'd pay no heed to them.