Topic: Lionel Messi

[La Vecchia Magpie]

I though Ronaldinho was amazing, and for a time I thought there would never be anyone as good as him.

But then Messi came along, and there's no one who's ever made me feel like anything could happen like when he's on the ball. You just KNOW something will happen.

[Roger Federer]

The thing with Messi is, he's not an entertainer, he's an athlete, he wants to continually be the best and focuses on that

That's what I love about him. He's focused, driven, and plays almost every single time for the team. Even when he goes on a run past 3-4 or more players, it's very seldom for show, it's because it's the best option at the time. He could just all well end such a run with a square pass as go for goal himself. Of course he's selfish at times, but not ever so when there's clearly a better play he can do (unlike C. Ronaldo for example). He's just looking for the most effective way to play. That can be a 5 yards pass back to Xavi, or a dribble through a whole team.

And on top of that he's also the most individually gifted player in the world, by a mile. A subtle change of his balance can fool defenders the wrong way, and not until you see a slow motion replay do you understand what just happened. Sometimes not even then. There's no other player today I'd rather watch - and of all those I've seen only Laudrup and Maradona are even close. I find that outstanding brilliance in combination with his team play to be an unbeatable combination.

[Stevie93]

The thing with Messi is, he's not an entertainer, he's an athlete, he wants to continually be the best and focuses on that.

Ronaldinho knew how good he was, and focused on entertaining the crowd IMO. It's why I think Ronaldinho in his prime was more exciting.

Do you think Messi is the greatest ever?

[Jetmir M.]

Do you think Messi is the greatest ever?

People say that coz their memories of Messi are still fresh. But the answer imho is a big NO.

Messi excels in this Barca team but wonder how he'd do if he wasn't surrounded by world class players, particularly by Iniesta, Xavi and even Fabregas? His appearences for Argentina show us he's not as 'invincible' as most seem to make out he is.

For me, the 2 greatest to ever play the game are Zidane and Ronaldo (the Brazilian one). And yeah, even Ronaldinho at his best was better than Messi is now.

[La Vecchia Magpie]

Ronaldinho, as good as he was, was never 'Messi good'. And Zidane, well forgive me for sounding like a broken record, but Zidane wasn't even better than Del Piero in that Juve team.

[Roger Federer]

People say that coz their memories of Messi are still fresh.

No, they say it because they believe it to be true.

I could just as well say you think Zidane was better just because you've forgotten that he had many ups and down, struggled with consistency at Juve especially, and that you ignore that he also had brilliant players like Davids, Del Piero, Figo, and Ronaldo around him. Not to mention France incredible defence - Thuram, Desailly, Blanc and Lizarazu - shielded by the likes of Vieira, Petit and Deschamps. But I'd be wrong about that, wouldn't I? You just believe him to be better than Messi. Which is fair enough, even if I disagree.

At 24, Messi has achieved more at club level than Zidane ever did throughout his career. I'd wait a bit before claiming he can't adapt to another environment but the one at Barcelona. At the same age Zidane hadn't won a thing and was still playing in France if I'm not mistaken. Messi has plenty of time to step up at international level, if that is even necessary.

[Jetmir M.]

No, they say it because they believe it to be true.

I could just as well say you think Zidane was better just because you've forgotten that he had many ups and down, struggled with consistency at Juve especially, and that you ignore that he also had brilliant players like Davids, Del Piero, Figo, and Ronaldo around him. Not to mention France incredible defence - Thuram, Desailly, Blanc and Lizarazu - shielded by the likes of Vieira, Petit and Deschamps. But I'd be wrong about that, wouldn't I? You just believe him to be better than Messi. Which is fair enough, even if I disagree.

At 24, Messi has achieved more at club level than Zidane ever did throughout his career. I'd wait a bit before claiming he can't adapt to another environment but the one at Barcelona. At the same age Zidane hadn't won a thing and was still playing in France if I'm not mistaken. Messi has plenty of time to step up at international level, if that is even necessary.

Messi has achieved things younger so what? I think some players peak younger (and are finished younger), some peak later i.e. The God.

Don't forget that Zidane almost single-handedly, at the age of 34, led France to a World Cup final!

The thing with Messi is he's playing for the best team in the world right now and their style of play suits him but again.. why do you think he isn't as successful with Argentina? It's not that his teammates are bad there either. In fact I'd go as far as saying Argentina have the best attack of all the national teams and yet Messi is just a shadow of the player he is for Barca.

I also mentioned Ronaldo.

I'm not gonna say much about him as I don't even have to. His nickname 'phenomenon' describes him best really.

The guy barely kicked a football for 2 seasons and he comes back for World Cup 2002 and boom! We all know what happened.

[Antics]

The argument against him that he's in the best team in the world (arguably the best ever) is an interesting one: It could easily be argued that its to his credit that he's the most important player and absolute focal point of the greatest team in history.

For the record, he's scored or assisted a very similar percentage of their goals as Van Persie at Arsenal this season, a team routinely mocked for being a one man affair.

[Stevie93]

The argument against him that he's in the best team in the world (arguably the best ever) is an interesting one: It could easily be argued that its to his credit that he's the most important player and absolute focal point of the greatest team in history.

For the record, he's scored or assisted a very similar percentage of their goals as Van Persie at Arsenal this season, a team routinely mocked for being a one man affair.

Without Messi, they would not have won half the trophies they've won with him there. Barca need him more than he needs Barca.

[DangerScouse]

The thing with Messi is, he's not an entertainer, he's an athlete, he wants to continually be the best and focuses on that.

Ronaldinho knew how good he was, and focused on entertaining the crowd IMO. It's why I think Ronaldinho in his prime was more exciting.

Way off the mark for me, of course he's an entertainer, he doesn't go out of his way to be, it just comes naturally to him. I think your description would be far more apt for Ronaldo to be honest. He's much more of an athlete than Messi.

[And Could He Play]

if some of you even doubt messi's talent cos he plays for the best team and all that, stand up, open your front door, walk outside and shoot yourself in the head.

[Roger Federer]

I was mainly disagreeing when you said people think Messi is so good because he's fresh in mind. I believe they think he's the best ever, because that is their honest opinion, and nothing else. As I'm sure your opinion on Zidane is.

I don't put as much weight on International games as you do, I judge Messi from the stuff he does week in week out. He is incredible, and incredibly consistent too. Also, he's only played one World Cup as a regular (and was Argentina's best player imo), it's to early to say how well he's does for them before he gets atleast another chance. If Argentina had a defence and midfield like Zidane did in 1998 I wouldn't bet against him winning that trophy too. Even if he's played upfront on his own. But lets just agree to disagree if you don't think so.

[DougLFC94]

The thing with Messi is, he's not an entertainer, he's an athlete, he wants to continually be the best and focuses on that.

Ronaldinho knew how good he was, and focused on entertaining the crowd IMO. It's why I think Ronaldinho in his prime was more exciting.

Yes but you can't predict what Messi is going to do everytime he picks up the ball...or can you?  makes him just as or if not more exciting.

[El_Pistolero]

Way off the mark for me, of course he's an entertainer, he doesn't go out of his way to be, it just comes naturally to him. I think your description would be far more apt for Ronaldo to be honest. He's much more of an athlete than Messi.

To be honest, I think that's what J's saying. He's not saying Messi is an athlete, just that he strives to be the best and most professional he can be on the pitch. Of course he's entertaining, he's too damn good not to be, but the difference is Ronaldinho set out to entertain. Messi sets out to be the best he can be, which is entertaining in itself.

[Stevie93]

if some of you even doubt messi's talent cos he plays for the best team and all that, stand up, open your front door, walk outside and shoot yourself in the head.

It actually makes no sense, doesn't it? When Messi picks the ball up, ghosts past 2 or 3 players and then plays an inch perfect through ball, what does his team have to do with that?

The fact is, Messi is usually marked by 2 or 3 players every game, freeing up huge amounts of space for the rest of the Barca team. Barca need him.

[Antics]

To be honest, I think that's what J's saying. He's not saying Messi is an athlete, just that he strives to be the best and most professional he can be on the pitch. Of course he's entertaining, he's too damn good not to be, but the difference is Ronaldinho set out to entertain. Messi sets out to be the best he can be, which is entertaining in itself.

I read somewhere that often Ronaldinho would feel compelled to do something entertaining in the first 20 minutes to get the fickle Camp Nou crowd immediately onside, which would relieve some of the pressure on the team. Can't remember where.

[J-Mc-]

To be honest, I think that's what J's saying. He's not saying Messi is an athlete, just that he strives to be the best and most professional he can be on the pitch. Of course he's entertaining, he's too damn good not to be, but the difference is Ronaldinho set out to entertain. Messi sets out to be the best he can be, which is entertaining in itself.

Exactly that mate.

[And Could He Play]

Exactly that mate.

you should still shoot yourself in the head, for other reasons.

[J-Mc-]

you should still shoot yourself in the head, for other reasons.

Can't do that when your birds expecting my kid mate.

[And Could He Play]

Can't do that when your birds expecting my kid mate.

ooh sailor....


back on topic, has ronaldo scored more this season?

[Stevie93]

ooh sailor....


back on topic, has ronaldo scored more this season?

Messi has 58, Ronaldo has 49.

[And Could He Play]

58, jesus christ

[Stevie93]

58, jesus christ

And 12 games to go, assuming they reach the CL final. Can he reach 70? 

[And Could He Play]

should easily get 70, can i get odds for that?

[Stevie93]

should easily get 70, can i get odds for that?

I think Pep will rest him in a couple of league games, wouldn't be so sure.

[Camarero25]

It actually makes no sense, doesn't it? When Messi picks the ball up, ghosts past 2 or 3 players and then plays an inch perfect through ball, what does his team have to do with that?

The fact is, Messi is usually marked by 2 or 3 players every game, freeing up huge amounts of space for the rest of the Barca team. Barca need him.

That picture's amazing.

[eLToRo]

People say that coz their memories of Messi are still fresh. But the answer imho is a big NO.

Messi excels in this Barca team but wonder how he'd do if he wasn't surrounded by world class players, particularly by Iniesta, Xavi and even Fabregas? His appearences for Argentina show us he's not as 'invincible' as most seem to make out he is.

For me, the 2 greatest to ever play the game are Zidane and Ronaldo (the Brazilian one). And yeah, even Ronaldinho at his best was better than Messi is now.

I understand what your gettin at.Zidane was imense in that world cup. But Messi stats as much as people say he doesnt do it for argentina are just as good as zidane are for France.That france team of 2006 had great player.Such as henry in his prime,Viera is his prime.Makelele  and Ribery also. Messi has alot of great players in that argentina team but argentina have been bad for a long time,very disjointed.Bad at the back and in midfield and maybe too many good players up front.

Zidane was great in that world cup but he had some team to protect him behind.Messi has a very respectable tally for argentina  even though Argentina as a team have been shit for years now.

Im young,but Messi is the best iv ever seen.Hes in a great team yes but just by saying that he wouldnt do it on his own without xavi etc around him,without it being proven doesnt make him worse that the rest.

[BigDonga]

I think Pep will rest him in a couple of league games, wouldn't be so sure.

With the possibility of the title now?

Wouldn't be so sure.

[LuisLFC]

When Messi fucks off to Napoli and carries them to a couple of league titles & wins a world cup pretty much by himself I'll consider him the best of all time..

Until then I think Diego stills tops it.




Messi to play the lead role in the new Dark Crystal real life action movie, you read that here first.

[Stevie93]

When Messi fucks off to Napoli and carries them to a couple of league titles & wins a world cup pretty much by himself I'll consider him the best of all time..

Until then I think Diego stills tops it.




Messi to play the lead role in the new Dark Crystal real life action movie, you read that here first.

Myths, myths, myths...

[PluckyUnderdog]

When Messi fucks off to Napoli and carries them to a couple of league titles & wins a world cup pretty much by himself I'll consider him the best of all time..

Until then I think Diego stills tops it.




Messi to play the lead role in the new Dark Crystal real life action movie, you read that here first.

Utterly daft. Maradona, for one, played with Careca, a fantastic player in his own right, and the rest of the napoli team had plenty of other good players, such as Ferrara, Crippa, Zola, and Alemão. To say that Maradona won the league on his own is short-sighted, at best.

Back to the topic in hand, and I'd say Messi is the greatest player I've ever seen.

[doc_antonio]

When he pulls off goals like this:



you cant say that was the team making him do that, granted great pass from iniesta, but normally stikers (even ronaldo) would try and blast that right past the keeper, but messi just has 1 extra touch which everyone thinks its 1 touch to many and then BOOM ball's in the back of the net.

[beardsley4ever]

Says you. Why don't you open you mind and stop licking Messi's arse for a minute. We all agree he's the best player in the world, that doesn't mean he's more exciting to watch than anyone who's ever played the game.

I'm not licking anyone's arse, thanks.  And I'm not saying that he is necessarily more exciting to watch than anyone who's ever played the game.  But I can't imagine how anyone who appreciates how hard it is to run at full pace (at Messi's pace) with the ball so close to your feet, ghosting past defenders, and with the calm and composure to find a pass or a perfect finish at that pace can tell me that that isn't more exciting than what Ronaldinho was achieving.  Messi does that every game - he does it over and over and over again, and every time he does it is an unbelievable thrill.  Ronaldinho was never that exciting for me, and even if you think he was you can't possibly think that it was for more than 1-2 seasons - Messi has been doing it now for 3-4 years, and you wouldn't bet against it continuing for another several years.

[Roger Federer]

When Messi fucks off to Napoli and carries them to a couple of league titles & wins a world cup pretty much by himself I'll consider him the best of all time..

I've never understood this kind of argument. Why should he have to follow the exact same career path of another player to be considered the best?

I could just as well use Messi's achievements against Maradona. Where are Maradona's three European Cups? Has he even played in a final, let alone score (twice)? When did he ever score 50+ goals a season (twice, and about to be 60+ this season)? Was he ever as consistent 3-4 years in a row? Did he win as many league titles? Sure, Maradona did stuff that Messi hasn't yet, but Maradona falls short in comparison to Messi in some regards, as well.

For what it's worth, they are both absolutely incredible, and easily the two best players I've seen. Maradona was in my opinion even more unpredictable and a greater playmaker, but Messi's scoring record and consistency is scary. It says a lot that he's already talked about as being among the best ever, when he's just 24 years old. If can keep himself at this level for a while longer, I'm certain he'll be regarded as the best when his career is over.

[didi]

Ronaldinho, as good as he was, was never 'Messi good'. And Zidane, well forgive me for sounding like a broken record, but Zidane wasn't even better than Del Piero in that Juve team.

Zidane! he was the greatest player that has been for 1. ball control and 2. vision

skill and balance Messi is 2nd only to Maradonna

[corkboy]

It actually makes no sense, doesn't it? When Messi picks the ball up, ghosts past 2 or 3 players and then plays an inch perfect through ball, what does his team have to do with that?

The fact is, Messi is usually marked by 2 or 3 players every game, freeing up huge amounts of space for the rest of the Barca team. Barca need him.

Reminded me of this.

[Tomaldinho]

Reminded me of this.

That picture is a complete myth anyway, it was a free kick that was rolled to him down the left side past the wall. All those players were in the wall.

[Roger Federer]

Zidane! he was the greatest player that has been for 1. ball control and 2. vision

I think both of those belong to Maradona. Don't think Zidane had anything over him actually, except a better weaker foot.

[Yiannis]

Zidane may not be the greatest but he is really close to  Maradona,Pele,Messi and Cruyff imo.The only thing that you could 'blame' him is he didn't score a lot but when he did it was usually a thing of beauty.When it comes to sheer technique,there was nothing,absolutely nothing,that he should be jealous of the others.He was as good.

[didi]

I think both of those belong to Maradona. Don't think Zidane had anything over him actually, except a better weaker foot.

nah to me there was no one better for vision and aware of what was going on around him then Zidane....he was an artist, beautiful to watch.....Maradonna for sheer balance and skill was the greatest