Topic: Deloitte Football Money League 2008/09 report released

[liddellpool]

MILAN, March 2 (Reuters) - Real Madrid and Barcelona topped
the world's richest club followed by Manchester United,
according to an annual survey by accountancy firm Deloitte
released on Tuesday.
    The combined revenues of the top 20 clubs grew by 26 million
euros ($35.16 million) to over 3.9 billion euros in 2008-09,
amid the global economic downturn.
    However, nine of the clubs reported a decrease in revenues
in local currency on the previous season.
    Following are details of the top 10 clubs by revenues
featuring in the latest Deloitte "Football Money League".
    (All 2008/09 figures in million euros, previous position in
brackets).
    1 (1) REAL MADRID
    Revenues: 401.4 (from 365.8

    Matchday: 101.4
    Broadcasting: 160.8
    Commercial: 139.2

    2 (3) FC BARCELONA
    Revenues: 365.9 (from 308.8

    Matchday: 95.5
    Broadcasting: 158.4
    Commercial: 112.0

    3 (2) MANCHESTER UNITED
    Revenues: 327.0 (from 324.8

    Matchday: 127.7
    Broadcasting: 117.1
    Commercial: 82.2

    4 (4) BAYERN MUNICH
    Revenues: 289.5 (from 295.3)

    Matchday: 60.6
    Broadcasting: 69.6
    Commercial: 159.3

    5 (6) ARSENAL
    Revenues*: 263.0 (from 264.4)

    Matchday: 117.5
    Broadcasting: 89.0
    Commercial: 56.5
    (*In million pounds: 224 from 209.3)

    6 (5) CHELSEA
    Revenues: 242.3 (from 268.9)

    Matchday: 87.4
    Broadcasting: 92.9
    Commercial: 62.0

    7 ( 8 ) LIVERPOOL
    Revenues: 217.0 (from 207.4)

    Matchday: 49.9
    Broadcasting: 87.6
    Commercial 79.5

    8 (11) JUVENTUS
    Revenues: 203.2 (from 167.5)

    Matchday: 16.7
    Broadcasting: 132.2
    Commercial: 54.3

    9 (10) INTER MILAN
    Revenues: 196.5 (from 172.9)

    Matchday: 28.2
    Broadcasting: 115.7
    Commercial: 52.6

    10 (7) AC MILAN
    Revenues: 196.5 (from 209.5)

    Matchday: 33.4
    Broadcasting: 99.0
    Commercial: 64.1

[nots321]

too bad all that money is going towards the debt

[Big Dirk]

Man Ures match day revenue compared to ours is embarrassing, the sooner we get a new stadium the better.

[slickman]

Were always pretty high in these lists our marketing startegy has improved with purslow anyone could do better then parry but we could easily be 4th or 3rd if we had a new stadium. Also barca are closing in on madrid and utd who use to be on their own at the top.

[Red_Rich]

Man Ures match day revenue compared to ours is embarrassing, the sooner we get a new stadium the better.

Even Chelsea's match day revenue is almost double ours!  How fucking much must they be charging?!

[Mad Men]

Madrid pull in double what we make.....big gap there in terms of revenue and financial muscle...

[Curva Nord '77]

Man Ures match day revenue compared to ours is embarrassing, the sooner we get a new stadium the better.

it's not that long ago Barca were struggling to compete - they are much better run these days.

Unlike us.

[Graham Smith]

Ha ha ha ha

Wake up! Wake up!

We've had three transfer windows where our sales have exceeded our purchases. Our bank requires us to find £100m.

These surveys are nonsense.

It's like saying the local corner shop is the best around - it takes in £1000 a day, ah, but it owes £300000.00 on its mortgage and can't afford to decorate or fix the leaky roof.

[i6uuaq]

how in the world does Bayern Munich have more commercial revenue than Real Madrid, and more than any two English clubs combined?

We're not doing too badly on the commercial front, it seems, just a hair behind the Mancs.

[TLT]

Thanks for posting the article, interesting to know. But how people define "rich" is very different.

I mean, you look at someone who earns £100k a year. But pays £50k on servicing personal debt. Then you have someone who earns £60k a year, and pays £10k servicing debt.

Who is richer? Or are they the same?

This just demonstrates what we could be without the debt, and the stadium we were promised. We have the market, it is out there in Liverpool, all over the UK, and the World.

[slickman]

how in the world does Bayern Munich have more commercial revenue than Real Madrid, and more than any two English clubs combined?

We're not doing too badly on the commercial front, it seems, just a hair behind the Mancs.

Yeah bayern are on the few sides in that list who are the only giants in their respective league guess they have more oppurtunity as they have nobody rivalling them.

[Walton Breck Road]

Deloitte report delivers financial wake-up call for Liverpool

Liverpool have found themselves struggling behind their top four rivals despite being ranked as the seventh-richest club in Europe by football finance experts.

The Reds currently owe £237 million to the Royal Bank of Scotland but have moved up one place in Deloitte's Football Money League, recording revenue of £184.8 million for the 2008/09 season - a 13% increase from the previous campaign.

Broadcasting rights rose by 5% to £74.6 million whilst the Merseyside club's new sponsorship deal with banking giants Standard Chartered, which will take effect this summer, is set to bring in an estimated £12.5 million income per annum.

The appointment of Ian Ayre as commercial director saw the Anfield outfit leap over Arsenal and Chelsea, in 5th and 6th place respectively, for incomings of £67.7 million.

Liverpool also netted an estimated £70 million after finishing runners up in the Barclays Premier League and reaching the quarter-final stage of the Champions League but continue to struggle to match the ticket and hospitality sales of their competitors.

Despite reaping £42.5 million in match day sales, the club are languishing behind Chelsea (£74.5m), Arsenal (£100.1m) and Manchester United (£108.8m) - emphasising the importance to expand their capacity and corporate facilities as early as possible.

Plans for a 76,000-seater stadium in Stanley Park have been on hold whilst club owners George Gillett and Tom Hicks continue to search for an investment of £100 million to reduce the deficit owed to RBS and American bank Wachovia.

James McKenna, spokesman for fans' group Spirit of Shankly, said "Whilst we all welcome the Liverpool brand getting stronger, the increase in revenue will leave many wondering where the money is actually going.

"Fans would expect to see an increase in revenue bringing an increase in player purchasing power - if we look at the last three transfer windows and the net spend, this is simply not the case.

"It's all well and good increasing the money coming in, but when it is going out the other side to pay down debts, it is of no benefit to the club.

"If the owners stuck to their promises at the beginning, not to burden the club with debt and to build a new stadium, the club would be moving forward and doing well on and off the pitch.

"As things stand, whilst the revenues have increased, so has the debt, and the future is still not certain for the club."

Yesterday, representatives from both Liverpool and Everton met with city council officials to discuss plans for a 'football quarter' which would see both Goodison Park and Anfield renovated with the North West Development Agency keen on a concrete plan of action.

NWDA chief executive Steve Broomhead said: "We welcome the meeting. People are beginning to look at the opportunities again. Both clubs need solutions, either singly or jointly."

http://www.clickliverpool.com/sport/liverpool-fc/128213-deloitte-report-delivers-financial-wake--up-call-for-liverpool-fc.html

[Curva Nord '77]

Bayern are the biggest club in Germany by light years. Also the Bundesliga's levels of support is very high and the German population is bigger than the UK.

[redssder]

why our matchday revenue vs chelsea revenue quite much different..their stadium is not so big huh...or is there any revenue for this matchday computation...

[Koplass]

why our matchday revenue vs chelsea revenue quite much different..their stadium is not so big huh...or is there any revenue for this matchday computation...

Ticket prices, and maybe that hotel/restaurant/pub they've got built into the side of their ground? Also might be to do with corporate boxes, they must have/charge more than us.

[Rigden]

I never understand these surveys, most of these clubs have amassed hundreds of millions in debt, how can they be the classified as the richest? 

[DaveCharlie]

Wake up! Wake up!

Exactly, Graham. Using the word "rich" in this context is a complete misrepresentation. But I guess "LFC in top ten for annual revenue turnover, not taking into account debt, assets or expenditure" isn't quite as grabbing (in a headline-sensationalist way). Add it to the media bollocks thread and move on, I say.

[gaztop08]

Our Lesser match day revenue is killing us................ reducing our buying power...Arsenal are much better than us on match day revenue

[redssder]

Ticket prices, and maybe that hotel/restaurant/pub they've got built into the side of their ground? Also might be to do with corporate boxes, they must have/charge more than us.

wowow...is it...so we have to do something on this...quite embrassing no on the matchday revenue lol

[DaveCharlie]

wowow...is it...so we have to do something on this...quite embrassing no on the matchday revenue lol

Its not in itself embarassing. We have a smaller stadium - and the yanks aren't building a bigger one. Add to that possibly the fact that we charge slightly less for tickets - I don't have evidence on that at hand, but I'm pretty sure tickets in London are a bit more than ours.

We certainly have a smaller stadium than any of the other clubs in the list, and smaller than many many other clubs in Europe of course. Ideally we'd be at a point where the club was being run well enough that matchday revenue would be irrelevant and therefore ticket prices could come down a bit...

[Passmaster Molby]

A profit of 184.8mill - well fuck me our problems will be solved in no time!

[Alan_X]

It's not profit - it's revenue.

[Manila Kop]

how in the world does Bayern Munich have more commercial revenue than Real Madrid, and more than any two English clubs combined?

We're not doing too badly on the commercial front, it seems, just a hair behind the Mancs.

They wholly own the Allianz Arena after buying out TSV 1860 Munchen's 50% share.  So Bayern now gets 100% of the revenue generated by the stadium (hospitality, sponsorship, etc) and also gets to charge TSV rent for all their home games.  Over 60% of Bayern's total revenues comes from the commercial segment when the average for other clubs is between 20-30%.

[Xabier Alonso Olano]

The only pleasing(??) thing about this kind of report, is that barring Chelsea and Arsenal, our turnover to debt ratio is the lowest in the top ten basically. And Chelsea's is only due to Roman wiping off the 300m interest free loan he has given them.

But that is still without us owning a brand new stadium that would move our matchday revenue from one of the worst in the top ten, to one of the best. By time that is factored in, our debt will be at Untds levels, but with a turnover that is improved from where it is now.

All of the teams in the top ten of this report are in debt.

Something needs to be done quickly to stop it.

[danwms]

That only shows the money coming in.

We would probably be second in the league of cash going out.

[xerxes1]

Despite all our problems we are still generating the seventh biggest income stream in Europe.

 Our Commercial performance is pretty good, particularly with Anfield as it is.

 A new,larger Stadium is vital.

The English "top four" will ned to negotiate individual tv deals to stay competitive with our Continental rivals.

And that's it in a nutshell.

[shelts]

Its not in itself embarassing. We have a smaller stadium - and the yanks aren't building a bigger one. Add to that possibly the fact that we charge slightly less for tickets - I don't have evidence on that at hand, but I'm pretty sure tickets in London are a bit more than ours.

We certainly have a smaller stadium than any of the other clubs in the list, and smaller than many many other clubs in Europe of course. Ideally we'd be at a point where the club was being run well enough that matchday revenue would be irrelevant and therefore ticket prices could come down a bit...

Chelsea have a smaller capacity than ours, so you can only imagine what they are charging on ticket prices - Capacity at SB - c42000

edit - The other side of that argument is that the San Siro has a capacity of c80000 and yet their matchday income is only £33m

[SP]

How can the Mancs earn only £3M more commercial revenue when they so shamelessly whore themselves? 2008/09 was before the new commercial team really started to kick ass. I am really surprised that we are on a parity with the Mancs on the commercial side. Only need to sort out a stadium, and pay off a huge debt and we'll be well set.

[Dave_the_Red]

So we can use our position in the top ten to go and buy players accordingly?

[CraigDS]

Im presuming that once our Standard Chartered deal is included, along with our new betting deal with 188, and the few other new deals that wouldnt of been included in that (surely we must have a beer deal to agree yet for next season), that we'll go above United on the commercial side? Thats impressive imo.

Will be interesting to see how far up that list we'd climb when/if we get a new stadium, it really is a lead balloon where we are currently.

Also, how long until the top PL clubs insist on working out their own broadcasting deals? We are being absolutely dwarfed by Spain and have as big, if not bigger, pull than those.

[ttnbd]

the commercial numbers also include merchandise sales. take these lists with a pinch of salt though as, as has been said, it's revenue only.

[SquirmyRooter]

It's fair to say we need a bigger stadium to compete but it's a double edged sword. We'd have to borrow the 400million quid to build it. It would be a drain on the club in the medium term and if things didn't go so well on the pitch it could become a millstone.

More interesting is the collective TV deal, delloite are quite clear that it's the only thing that is keeping United off the top of the list, we would also benefit greatly from negotiating our own deal.

How long before G&H/The Glazers do something about it??

[ttnbd]

they can't as it would need 14 clubs to agree to it

[SquirmyRooter]

they can't as it would need 14 clubs to agree to it

Surely the agreement has to be renewed at some point? At which point any club can just say we're going our own way, surely they can't be tied in forever?? It may be problematic but i'm sure it could be done, sooner or later.

[SP]

We are probably better off relative to the Mancs under the current deal. We would get more money individually, but the Mancs would likely get yet more. Individual TV deals would be really bad for the English game.

[SquirmyRooter]

We are probably better off relative to the Mancs under the current deal. We would get more money individually, but the Mancs would likely get yet more. Individual TV deals would be really bad for the English game.

I totally agree but I doubt G&h/Glazers will look at barca/real/Milan clubs/Juve getting bigger TV revenues from smaller TV audiences and not consider doing their own deals.

[CraigDS]

We are probably better off relative to the Mancs under the current deal. We would get more money individually, but the Mancs would likely get yet more. Individual TV deals would be really bad for the English game.

It would initially, but if Spain, Italy and Germany can all negotiate their own then its only a matter of time before all the best players head there (not to mention with the current tax issues) - if that happens then the PL as a product becomes less valuable and the lower teams will lose out. They only get as much as they do because of the top sides, so it makes sense to keep them on side and being the best in the world.

[whelan05]

Few figures jump out on this;

1/  As already discussed Bayern's commercial revenue is very impressive
2/  The 2 Milan clubs match day revenue is hard to believe with a stadium nearly twice our size, wonder if it's something to do with the rent they have to pay on it, isn't the San Siro owned by the local council
3/  On a positive note our income has increased by approx €10m in the last year whilst utd's only went up ny a couple of mill and the 2 other English teams had significant falls, suspect their falls may be to do with the currency and utd and our own increases are actually higher in stg but interesting none the less.

From utd's point of view i think their income is getting towards it's upper limits as their level of success on the field over the last 3 years is more or less as high as it can go and hopefully will dip from here   
 

[whelan05]

It would initially, but if Spain, Italy and Germany can all negotiate their own then its only a matter of time before all the best players head there (not to mention with the current tax issues) - if that happens then the PL as a product becomes less valuable and the lower teams will lose out. They only get as much as they do because of the top sides, so it makes sense to keep them on side and being the best in the world.

Didn't the EU look into this over the last couple of years and are suggesting that a collective deal is in fact anti-competitive? 

[SquirmyRooter]

Few figures jump out on this;

1/  As already discussed Bayern's commercial revenue is very impressive
2/  The 2 Milan clubs match day revenue is hard to believe with a stadium nearly twice our size, wonder if it's something to do with the rent they have to pay on it, isn't the San Siro owned by the local council
3/  On a positive note our income has increased by approx €10m in the last year whilst utd's only went up ny a couple of mill and the 2 other English teams had significant falls, suspect their falls may be to do with the currency and utd and our own increases are actually higher in stg but interesting none the less.

From utd's point of view i think their income is getting towards it's upper limits as their level of success on the field over the last 3 years is more or less as high as it can go and hopefully will dip from here   
 

Matchday revenues in Milan will be linked to ticket prices and the fact that they rarely sell out, despite the size of the stadium.

EDIT Inter are averaging 54,000 this season, ACMilan43,000