Topic: The Tablet Computing Thread

[timiano]

People use landscape for certain things but it's much more natural to use portrait for reading books etc. 16:9 portrait is not great. To me it smacks of Microsoft thinking of it as a laptop screen or mini-monitor.

I agree, but the iPad and other tablets aren't used as primary reading devices. I use it for reading reference manual, as it's quicker to navigate, but I represent a much smaller market than other e-reader consumers. Having used both aspects in both orientations, I think it's not so much of an issue either way, although 4:3 just shades it for me....just.

[♠Dirty Harry♠]

If anyone goes back to the start of this thread there were a load of posts about alternatives to the iPad and how a screen and a full OS were essential, that the tablets with detachable keyboards would wipe the floor etc...  It was all techie shite that the majority of people couldn't give a shit about. Microsoft are producing a business machine rather than a product. Will it (or rather will they) sell? Maybe to people who give a shit about that stuff but an iPad killer? No way and I'll put money on that.

Steve Balmer is the least visionary CEO of a tech company there has ever been and this is a Balmer product. It/they doesn't know what it is/they are.

The kick stand is a gormless idea - extra weight, complication and expense (and a loss of accessory sales). Why?... Because they think it's a monitor or a laptop screen. They don't understand how people actually use tablets....

Anyway, as I say. It's Microsoft thinking inside the box. A massive retrograde step and lack of imagination.  The iPad created a new kind of product that Android has picuked up on and is taking forward. This is classic Microsoft - copied off someone else but missing the point and then segmented into home and pro versions. People don't work that way anymore. IPads (and Android tablets) are tools for doing certain stuff in certain circumstances. I could buy an iBook 13" or a netbook that would be about the same weight and size as the surface pro with the advantage that the keyboard and trackpad are always attached to the computer.

Nearly every person I've seen using an iPad has some sort of cover that doubles as a stand, those who don't complain about it. Have you read any of the information about the tablet as a your comment about extra weight makes no real sense given the weight added would be minimal due to the integration of the stand and I'm sure any loss of accessory sales will be shored up by people buying keyboard cases.

I must say I'm baffled by how you've made up your mind on the product before even touching or trying the thing.

Your argument for buying a iBook or a netbook (I assume you mean Mac Book air?) falls flat on two levels, people are looking for tablets especially at the consumer end due to the 'cool' factor and secondly they are looking for touch products, neither of your suggestions offers an all-in-one solution.

I remain skeptical about how successful the RT version will be (I'd me more confident if the app sharing rumours with WP were true) as there's been no confirmation of price and the ecosystem as it stands is a little bare to say the least, plus there's going to be the inevitable confusion about names and how the customer will know the difference (and not feel like a c*nt at the same time asking for it), they really need to sort their marketing as it's a clusterfuck of half-arsed ideas and concepts.

I do believe that there is plenty of people out there who'd rather have one machine which can perform many roles than multiple single function devices, I don't know how many times I have left the office in a rush and wished I had taken files with me to work on later etc or have been late trying to get last minute work done for a client meeting and then having to copy files to the iPad/laptop to take with me, this would negate such problems due to the fact it can run professional suites of software.

From my experience of Windows 8 since developer release last year, I can't see too much wrong with what MS have been doing, I know Metro is not everyone's cup of tea but functionality and ease-of-use wise it's second to none and I personally find it's simplicity beautiful. In saying that, I've rarely delved into the metro side of things as it's just not productive enough when using it on a non-touch device, but thankfully there is old faithful waiting in the wings to help me plough through invoicing spreadsheets and lines of CSS.

[MichaelA]

A touch screen netbook would have been Microsoft's iPad killer. I still dream about the 'Courier' thing that they had in development. it ticked so many boxes. But they bottled it.

[Graeme]

A touch screen netbook would have been Microsoft's iPad killer.

Asus (with the T10) and Dell (with the Inspiron Duo) both dabbled with this but neither still in production.

[Alan_X]

Dirty Harry - it's just wrong. If you look at the way it's been presented and the way Balmer and the others at the presentation talk about it, they're all talking about a laptop. They are still back in the eighties/nineties when people were using a business product (desktop pc) as a consumer device. The world has moved on and the market is becoming dominated by consumer products that are being used as business devices (iPhone, IPad and Android devices). Smart phones and tablets aren't bought by the majority of people for reasons like computing power and operating systems. They're bought because they do what is required - no-one except techies gives a flying fart what the processor is.

You're right that most people who have an iPad have a cover and that often doubles as a stand. The Surface has a stand but also has a cover that doubles as a keyboard. I never take my iPad anywhere without it's cover but the important thing to remember is that the cover is just an accessory. If the cover of the Surface is such an integral part of the product then what's the point in having it detachable? It makes no sense. Under what circumstances would you go anywhere without a cover (and therefore your keyboard)? Why not attach the cover permanently if it's such a key element of the design? My laptop has a cover that doubles as a keyboard and sensibly it's attached by a hinge at the back.

And then there's the classic Microsoft home and business split. An iPad is an IPad. The only variables are 3G and storage capacity. Surface is/are two completely different products. If you want the consumer device why would you want the keyboard? Speed typing won't be an issue and most people will use it on their laps (so why have the kickstand)? They could save money and just have a touch screen keyboard.

And that's another thing. Isn't Windows 8 meant to be the touch friendly OS and yet Microsoft are saying that touch screens are shit because you need a keyboard and a touch pad? What's the message?

So for the business model they provide a keyboard but because it's not attached the screen will fall over and they have to provide a kickstand. My suggestion for an improved surface Pro model would be to omit the kickstand by making the screen stay up by itself. They could do it by moving some of the components from the screen section to the keyboard section to provide a counter balance and attaching the screen permanently. It would call for some tricky engineering but I'm sure it could be achieved. There would be an added advantage that you could use it in your lap instead of having to find a table to use the kick stand. If only they could think of a name?....

Call me cynical but Microsoft are shit at products. They hit the mark with the XBox but I can only assume that one crept under the radar. They are pretty shit at software as well but under Bill Gates they had a genius who understood how to get people hooked and locked in. Products don't work like software and PCs (which were sold as business machines, even to consumers). Consumers don't have an IT department telling them they have to use Windows or Office or a PC. They buy what they want.

Oh and there was wonderful irony in Balmer explain that the way to get the best experience is by locking in the software and hardware.

[Immoral King Brian Blessed]

It's a laptop with detachable keyboard.

Edit: Or what Alan said.

[Alan_X]

By the way that last post and this were written on my iPad in Carluccios using my iPhone as a personal hotspot. The Apple stand is perfect for that because I've got it in the shallow angle position for typing. Does the Surface have a shallow angle kickstand if you want to use it in a cafe or restaurant or on the train? No - you either have it flat (not great for typing on the touch screen) or upright on the kickstand (impossible for typing on the touchscreen) with the keyboard.

It's tech-led design not consumer or user-led design. They've solved a problem that didn't need solving - how to make a tablet into a laptop - when the problem is how to make a better tablet than Apple or create the next step-change in consumer products.

[SMD]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/aSj8GUZDuac" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/aSj8GUZDuac</a>

[timiano]

It's tech-led design not consumer or user-led design. They've solved a problem that didn't need solving - how to make a tablet into a laptop - when the problem is how to make a better tablet than Apple or create the next step-change in consumer products.

Arguably they've produced the first productivity based touch screen tablet. Even the highly lauded Asus Transformer struggles on that front. So the other option is just get an ultrabook, but that doesn't simply (with a few poor exceptions) convert into a consumption based device.

There's a market for this definitely, and it's not just tech driven at all. It'll tick plenty of boxes from consumer through to enterprise. I still think their marketing and shipping capability will be its downfall though, but at least it will have waved the smelling salts under the noses of the, thus far, lacklustre OEMs.

[GBF]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/aSj8GUZDuac" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/aSj8GUZDuac</a>

typical microsoft, tablet froze in the middle of presentation..they would have hope to have a ctrl+alt+del on that thing

[Immoral King Brian Blessed]

That would explain why the keyboard is essential.

[zero zero]

That would explain why the keyboard is essential.

[iSmiff]

Metro is a superior User interface than iOS.

[wacko]

Metro is a superior User interface than iOS.

From the little I've played with it, it really does make iOS look old and grubby.

That said, I don't think it shows enough on the screen, so you have to drill down far too much.

Arguably they've produced the first productivity based touch screen tablet. Even the highly lauded Asus Transformer struggles on that front. So the other option is just get an ultrabook, but that doesn't simply (with a few poor exceptions) convert into a consumption based device.

That's what they're aiming for, but it remains to be seen whether they'll manage it or another one of their neither-one-thing-nor-the-other-and-good-for-neither abortions, like their last tablet or convertible notebooks. By bottling out and packing a full version of Windows in there, they've taken away any incentive for developers to built a proper tablet version of their apps. And the Transformer failed because it just doesn't have the apps to be a proper notebook replacement. In that regard, the Surface will succeed because it will be the only tablet with a real version of MS Office. For almost any businessperson that's reason enough to get the Transformer.

There's a market for this definitely, and it's not just tech driven at all. It'll tick plenty of boxes from consumer through to enterprise. I still think their marketing and shipping capability will be its downfall though, but at least it will have waved the smelling salts under the noses of the, thus far, lacklustre OEMs.

I reckon it's mostly aimed primarily at the enterprise. Tablets aren't yet that widely in use, but it's only a matter of time until enterprise customers dump BlackBerry and plump for a smartphone and tablet platform. MS has got to be in that race or they'll be making all their mobile revenue from Android licensing fees.

I know a couple of the very large companies round here have been piloting iPads since the first one came out, and one of them has just decided to build the backend systems to support iPads.

[zero zero]

Why Metro now rules at Microsoft

The tile-based user interface created for Windows Phone has moved to the core of Microsoft's consumer offerings. Now, Microsoft has to make sure it doesn't muddy Metro's clear design.

Bill Flora, a key leader on the team that created Microsoft's Metro interface.

 

[Alan_X]

Watching the Keynote again I think they have potentially got a great product - a great professional laptop using the Intel processor and the thicker keyboard. I could see myself using something like that but can't think of any occasion when I wouldn't want the keyboard. Is it an iPad killer? I doubt it unless it's going to retail at £500. It might be a MacBook killer?

I just don't get the RT version - and from the Keynote I don't think Microsoft do either. The presentation stepped up a gear when they moved to the pro version. Surface is a business machine not a consumer product.

I've worked out the name though, it's designed to go on a surface and not to be hand held. Things like the camera being angled at 22° so it looks straight ahead when it's on the kick stand. Perfect for video conferencing but how weird is that going to be trying to take a picture when you're holding it? Hold the tablet vertical and you'll take a picture of the sky, and even more bizarre if it's in portrait mode.

Does it do portrait mode, or is it only intended to be used landscape?

[wacko]

The RT is meant to compete with the iPad, the Pro with ultrabooks.

Whether either will do a good job remains to be seen.

[SMD]

http://trollemipsum.appspot.com/?type=thurrott&length=new

(FAO Smiff)

[wacko]

Haha!

I like the John Gruber mode:

Insightful and not negative what dicknose, during iOS at the end looks like something I can’t put my finger on, but while but it’s OK, Android is winning after that dick move, so that dumb name, immediately Apple, and Google’s customers are the advertisers moreover but it’s open, so that’s OK, on the whole battery life eventually Appletini, while Apple care about their customers, as Google are selling you another point is that get your popcorn since good luck with that in the main reminds me of something I’ve seen before, at last James Bond, until nice in addition what a jerk, on the one hand Flash sucks, however jiminy I think RIM are toast, that claim chowder.

[BigDanno]

Got the new iPad for my birthday this week and I have to say I am very impressed with it my only gripe is when I use my iPhone now it just seems really small and shit! 

[Lusty]

Watching the Keynote again I think they have potentially got a great product - a great professional laptop using the Intel processor and the thicker keyboard. I could see myself using something like that but can't think of any occasion when I wouldn't want the keyboard. Is it an iPad killer? I doubt it unless it's going to retail at £500. It might be a MacBook killer?

I just don't get the RT version - and from the Keynote I don't think Microsoft do either. The presentation stepped up a gear when they moved to the pro version. Surface is a business machine not a consumer product.

Maybe it's intended as a blackberry killer?  They've failed massively to exploit the market for tablets in the enterprise with the playbook, and they're losing their grip on the smartphone market thanks to BYOD.  I would make that a much easier target than Apple.

[Des O'Connor]

I don't understand people's obsession with what device will kill other devices. It's not freakin' robot wars is it. As long as you're happy and your shiny thing performs as you want it to, it shouldn't matter if it's a bestseller or not.

I am personally really looking forward to the Surface and the release of Windows Phone 8 because both devices will tick a fuckload of my boxes. I was never drawn to iOS because the idea of paying to download and install apps to perform what should be routine operations within any modern browser doesn't really appeal to me. And then to have all of those apps organised in rows of icons, spread over multiple pages is just ugly and impractical. Plus, I have a few friends with iPads and half of them admit that they still use their laptop or desktop for 95% of tasks, the majority of the remainder hardly ever touch them and then there is a small minority that swear by them - the latter are also the most vociferous supporters.

A tablet running a full OS is all I’ve been asking for for the last 4 years. I’m glad the possibility is finally here.
 

[Immoral King Brian Blessed]

Thanks for that, Des.

[Graeme]

A tablet running a full OS is all I’ve been asking for for the last 4 years. I’m glad the possibility is finally here.

Asus have had one out for around 18 months, although its overpriced.

[Des O'Connor]

I hope you're not talking about the Transformer. I said full OS 

[Graeme]

I hope you're not talking about the Transformer. I said full OS 

No I was talking about the Asus Tablet with a full OS.

[Des O'Connor]

Fair enough. You're right, it is overpriced. Also: no Metro.

[bigal]

I've been looking at alternatives to the ipad and the Asus transformer seemed the best. Yet there's a few negative comments on here. I wonder if someone could say why?

[wacko]

I've been looking at alternatives to the ipad and the Asus transformer seemed the best. Yet there's a few negative comments on here. I wonder if someone could say why?

There are some things that Android does better than iOS (SD cards, file management, OS and software customisation, true multitasking, small tablets). If one or more of those things is massively important to you, you ain't going to like the iPad.

The iPad is one big compromise. It's always going to piss some people off, but it is by far the best all-round tablet, especially when you consider the wider ecosystem (apps, accessories, updates etc.).

The Transformer is a lovely tablet, but it's not a proper notebook replacement. If you're expecting a tiny notebook with full MS Office compatibility, you're going to be disappointed.

[Jaska]

How can I import FF bookmarks to iPad's Safari?

[Bobby Ffowler]

Whole IT companies are built on Microsoft backbone, from enterprise sw, security sw, client sw, everything enterprise SQL, windows server, sharepoint, exchange, lync, forefront, system centre and so on and so forth. They are all built to serve the business, to serve the users, the client users all interact in the back end with all these applications and the biggest IT issue out there today apart from virtualisation and public/private cloud technology solutions is client mobility. The ability to bring your device anywhere with you and have access to the exact same apps, setup, desktop etc with the exac same service. Work from your car or on th beach exactly the same as you would in the office. It's easier for this to happen if the client sw is windows, well it is in Microsoft eyes.
So why not create the hardware as well? To me it really fucks off the OEM partners Microsoft already has but I suppose my point is, you can't do all the above with too 100% efficiency with an iPad. How many IT deps are built on iOS? Not many I would guess!

[Tepid water]

Whole IT companies are built on Microsoft backbone, from enterprise sw, security sw, client sw, everything enterprise SQL, windows server, sharepoint, exchange, lync, forefront, system centre and so on and so forth. They are all built to serve the business, to serve the users, the client users all interact in the back end with all these applications and the biggest IT issue out there today apart from virtualisation and public/private cloud technology solutions is client mobility. The ability to bring your device anywhere with you and have access to the exact same apps, setup, desktop etc with the exac same service. Work from your car or on th beach exactly the same as you would in the office. It's easier for this to happen if the client sw is windows, well it is in Microsoft eyes.
So why not create the hardware as well? To me it really fucks off the OEM partners Microsoft already has but I suppose my point is, you can't do all the above with too 100% efficiency with an iPad. How many IT deps are built on iOS? Not many I would guess!

But the point of a tablet isn't really to be a PC you can carry round more easily .....

Tablets are used for different things, they have created a new market, a new breed of user.....

[Bobby Ffowler]

But the point of a tablet isn't really to be a PC you can carry round more easily .....

Tablets are used for different things, they have created a new market, a new breed of user.....

Exactly, it's a two in one. It's greedy but Microsoft always have been. I have an iPad 3, I would never of bought one but I won it in work. I'd never in a million years buy a surface but I have a work laptop. I hate having to boot my laptop up, work or home laptop, and wait for it for get up and running before I can use it properly so I much prefer the tablet than the laptop, saying that there are times where I wish I had an inbuilt kickstand or keyboard and tablets are so much more mobile than laptops. They have marketed it as a tablet with laptop/pc capabilities but it's the exact way round and Its purposefully designed That way. Poster boy for windows 8! I don't think anyone is saying that it's supposed to blow iPad out the water cause it won't. IMO it won't be such a consumer product than it will an enterprise device. Apple are to far ahead in the game to have ms create their first tablet and have it rival it so they stick to what they know best and market the shit out if it as something else!

[Des O'Connor]

Scoble just wrote off the Surface because Google are releasing a $200 7 inch tablet running Jelly Bean. 95% of the comments = gigantic rollyes. Apparently W8 RT is vaporware? Who knew.

https://plus.google.com/#111091089527727420853/posts/BSNy2v6zofM

I can't think of one thing this guy has said that actually came true?

[bigal]

There are some things that Android does better than iOS (SD cards, file management, OS and software customisation, true multitasking, small tablets). If one or more of those things is massively important to you, you ain't going to like the iPad.

The iPad is one big compromise. It's always going to piss some people off, but it is by far the best all-round tablet, especially when you consider the wider ecosystem (apps, accessories, updates etc.).

The Transformer is a lovely tablet, but it's not a proper notebook replacement. If you're expecting a tiny notebook with full MS Office compatibility, you're going to be disappointed.

Thanks, an interesting and full answer. Much appreciated

[markcd]

Nexus 7 looks really good for the money.

https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=nexus_7_8gb


SCREEN
7” 1280x800 HD display (216 ppi)
Back-lit IPS display
Scratch-resistant Corning glass
1.2MP front-facing camera
SIZE
198.5 x 120 x 10.45mm
WEIGHT
340g
WIRELESS
WiFi 802.11 b/g/n
Bluetooth
MEMORY
8 GB internal storage £159. 16Gb £199
1 GB RAM
USB
Micro USB
BATTERY
4325 mAh (Up to 8 hours of active use)
OS
Android 4.1 (Jelly Bean)
CPU
Quad-core Tegra 3 processor
FEATURES
Microphone
NFC (Android Beam)
Accelerometer
GPS
Magnetometer
Gyroscope

[stevedo]

Nexus 7 looks really good for the money.

https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=nexus_7_8gb


SCREEN
7” 1280x800 HD display (216 ppi)
Back-lit IPS display
Scratch-resistant Corning glass
1.2MP front-facing camera
SIZE
198.5 x 120 x 10.45mm
WEIGHT
340g
WIRELESS
WiFi 802.11 b/g/n
Bluetooth
MEMORY
8 GB internal storage £159. 16Gb £199
1 GB RAM
USB
Micro USB
BATTERY
4325 mAh (Up to 8 hours of active use)
OS
Android 4.1 (Jelly Bean)
CPU
Quad-core Tegra 3 processor
FEATURES
Microphone
NFC (Android Beam)
Accelerometer
GPS
Magnetometer
Gyroscope

Just ordered the 16gb, looks just what I wanted. 

[Tepid water]

Google glasses are coming out in 2013....

$1500

Pricey!

[wacko]

I'll probably buy one of those Google tablets, too, just to see.

It's ridiculously cheap.

It goes head-to-head with the Amazon Fire, but not so much the iPad: a 10" tablet is twice the size of a 7" one, so they're very different animals.

[JongWK]

Google glasses are coming out in 2013....

$1500

Pricey!

Developer version, not the actual consumer product. Basically, developers and journalists are paying a massive premium to get a sneak peek.