Topic: Mascherano. How important is he really?

[DonkeyWan]

Ok, I will almost assuredly get stick for this but it has occurred to me in the last few weeks. I don't rate Mascherano that highly. There. I said it. It's what I have come to believe. I have felt in the last few weeks that even with a half-fit Aquilani/Gerrard we look a more balanced, attacking side.

Mascherano has little guile or attacking prowess, is subject to reckless tackles and rushes of blood to the head, shoots badly from 30 yards out and generally looks frustrated and impotent in his midfield role. When Alonso was beside him his inadequacies weren't as glaring as all he had to do was win the ball and Alonso took care of the rest. This season he has been asked to round out his game and he looks a limited player as a result, a Nicky Butt if you will.

I don't want to see him sold in the summer for a number of reasons;

1] It will be yet another core team player lost to rival clubs, signalling that our star is on the wane.
2] The summer will be spent looking for a replacement, wasting valuable time
3] I vaguely suspect that the promise by Hicks to bring in lots of players will be preceded by the sale of lots of other players, creating even more upheaval than necessary

However, from a playing perspective I can't say I will miss Mascherano.

[Dubit10]

He is vital. Yes he does'nt create that much and does'nt score goals but he stops other teams playing and creating goals. Best in the business imo.

[rowan_d]

Remember when he was banned against Chelsea last season?

[PanchDeBurca]

Ok, I will almost assuredly get stick for this but it has occurred to me in the last few weeks. I don't rate Mascherano that highly. There. I said it. It's what I have come to believe. I have felt in the last few weeks that even with a half-fit Aquilani/Gerrard we look a more balanced, attacking side.

Mascherano has little guile or attacking prowess, is subject to reckless tackles and rushes of blood to the head, shoots badly from 30 yards out and generally looks frustrated and impotent in his midfield role. When Alonso was beside him his inadequacies weren't as glaring as all he had to do was win the ball and Alonso took care of the rest. This season he has been asked to round out his game and he looks a limited player as a result, a Nicky Butt if you will.

I don't want to see him sold in the summer for a number of reasons;

1] It will be yet another core team player lost to rival clubs, signalling that our star is on the wane.
2] The summer will be spent looking for a replacement, wasting valuable time
3] I vaguely suspect that the promise by Hicks to bring in lots of players will be preceded by the sale of lots of other players, creating even more upheaval than necessary

However, from a playing perspective I can't say I will miss Mascherano.

Wow you could get some stick for writing something like this.  Personally I would be inclined to agree with you in some ways.  I thought the Alonso-Masch partnership was up there with the very best in Europe but I don't think there is really a midfielder currently at the club who can compliment Masch as Alonso did, obviously Aqua could be that man but not for a while yet and we really have no idea how Aqua is going to work out

to put it another way I don't think as a player he is worth the reputed 30m that Barca are probably going to fork out

[RyanBabel19]

Great point rowan_d

To the OP you would miss Mascherano if he did leave. He's a fantastic player and underrated way too often

[keano7]

Hugely important in my opinion. He may not give us much going forward but his work ethic and determination is outstanding. He never stops running all game and gets in oppositions faces at every opportunity. Great tackler and provides sheer quality in the middle of midfield and leads by example.

Lucas has come into his own over the last 10 games or so at the club and I can't fault him recently as he's been playing well, however i'd love to see a midfield 3 of Masch, Alberto and Stevie and i'd think that would boost the outlook of our midfield dramatically if all three were playing at the same time.

On the flip side he's been sent off twice this season - once for being quite silly with that tackle on Van Der Sar and the other one could easily have not been given but you could see why it was. But its good to see one of our players fighting for every ball and putting in challenges all over the park like Stevie used to do and still does a few years ago. He's a fans favourite as well so I'd think the majority on here would love to see him stay for years. Excellent player and needs to be kept held off at all costs as his job is quite unique in a team and perhaps nobody does his job as good as him in the rest of the world, or maybe i'm being slightly biased.

[anil]

Real Madrid thought the same of Makalele. 

That didn't work out too well.

[red_til_i_die]

Javier Mascherano for me has been the best defensive midfielder we've had at the club since Didi Hamann. If he's allowed to patrol in front of the back four he's absolutely brilliant.

What doesn't make it obvious though is that were playing two DM's and him and Lucas are both held back. I'd love to see Lucas freed from his defensive duties for a game and just let Masch do what Masch does because i think we'd see the best out of both players.

It would help us create alot more from midfield i think.

[carling]

People said similar things about Alonso's importance.

Completely different players and situations granted but I am certain that Mascherano, like Xabi before him, will only get the full recognition he deserves once he has gone.

[Red Ant]

Is this for real?? Mascherano is a very important part of our squad. I would say he is the very 1st player after Stevie and Torres that other fans would take from us if they could. Maybe Reina also

[DonkeyWan]

Remember when he was banned against Chelsea last season?

Point is, that was last season when Alonso needed him. Lucas and Mascherano don't work as well, Gerrard and Mascherano also looks a bit of a non-starter. We have to wait on Mascherano and Aquilani (that would be interesting) but so far this season I have found myself annoyed with his contribution, even if the effort has been fantastic. He's like Kuyt, a bovril player, but unlike Kuyt the current set-up does not suit him.

[PaulMcC]

Very important.

[CHOPPER]

Small cogs turn big wheels.

[thegoodfella]

Small cogs turn big wheels.

If I were you, I wouldn't make fun of his small stature.

[Big Dirk]

In my view we have 4 world class players Reina Mascharano Gerrard and Torres,any other team in the world would want that as their spine so we should try and keep it intact

[rednich85]

I believe a Lucas and Aquilani partnership could, potentially be more effective the a Masch-Aquilani pairing

That said, I love Mascherano.

Fantastic player and great to have in our team

[DangerScouse]

I think Masch is of huge importance to the team and i think he is vastly under-rated by many outside of Liverpool. His passing has improved considerably imo although i do agree with you about those shots from 30 yards. As a dogged, harrassing defensive midfielder i don't think he has any peers in world football. My only criticism, if you can call it that, is he doesn't offer enough in an attacking sense like Essien for instance, but the bottom line is that isn't his role in the team. There are numerous videos online which can show the kind of influence he can have on a game (if you didn't already know)and also highlight his importance in the "bigger games" (i've posted one below of him against Inter in the CL). I know people say anyone can look good on youtube, but this isn't a collection over a season, it's from 2 legs and the magnitude of his performance is clear for all to see. The lad is a fucking warrior and i hope he's here for years to come.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZyBYDVjS3E&feature=related

[Chivasino]

"Mascherano and ten other."

[nittinivala]

Mascherano is very important to us ,especially when we press
the opposition high up the field.The way we did against
Madrid at home last season.That is the way to get the
crowd going!

[exiledintheUSA]

Masch will stay as his mate Maxi is coming in.

[Jermaine man]

"Javier Mascherano for me has been the best defensive midfielder we've had at the club since Didi Hamann. If he's allowed to patrol in front of the back four he's absolutely brilliant.

What doesn't make it obvious though is that were playing two DM's and him and Lucas are both held back. I'd love to see Lucas freed from his defensive duties for a game and just let Masch do what Masch does because i think we'd see the best out of both players." Red Til I Die

"He is vital. Yes he does'nt create that much and does'nt score goals but he stops other teams playing and creating goals. Best in the business imo." Dubit10



I agree with above comments. I would have put these earlier comments in a white box if i only knew how lol (any suggestions)

Mascherano is second to none in breaking and distrupting the oppositions play. That's his primary role. To get another player to be as disciplined is near impossible and with his work ethic included thats unheard of in opinion.

if he is replaceable name me one player in out there whocan match him for positional discipline,work rate, speed of thought in anticipating, foot speed, ball retention and commitment?

have i missed anything? btw dont go onto football manager i mean real life lol

final thought Argentina's multi-pass goal against Serbia at world cup 2006 how could that be possible if there wasn't a DM like Mascherano to fall back on if the ball was lost. he wins it keeps it simple and anticipates if the ball is going to be lost


It would help us create alot more from midfield i think.

[graffspider]

Massively important against good sides, often surplus to requirements against weaker teams where the problem is breaking them down rather than breaking up play.

As has been said, you'd do well to find a more effective, determined destroyer in any side. Sissoko was absolutely brilliant at it too, but Masch has turned out to be much better at distributing the ball. Says it all that he's one of the top transfer targets for probably the best team in the world at the moment.

[Captain Relief]

People said similar things about Alonso's importance.

Completely different players and situations granted but I am certain that Mascherano, like Xabi before him, will only get the full recognition he deserves once he has gone.

Spot on.

[WelshKopite]

I think the problem we have is that we don't have the players around Mascherano to realise his importance and just how good he is. He would be UNBELIEVABLE at Barcelona, I shouldn't say that but he is perfect for them. Unfortunatley we don't have the players around him that have the creative guile or creative freedom (atleast not playing that way at the moment)


WK

[Carlito Roberto]

Masch will stay as his mate Maxi is coming in.

Hope you're right, let's hope their missus' get on

[exiledintheUSA]

I agree with above comments. I would have put these earlier comments in a white box if i only knew how lol (any suggestions)
 

Like this? No idea.

[Mascherrardorres]

He is a destroyer, best of the best in breaking up opponents' plays. Hugely significant when the opponent is strong, but not so much when facing weaker teams.

[BazC]

I think he's one of those players who is more valuable in the CL than in the PL at times. Although in the big PL games he's vital.

Sure, a Lucas/Aquilani partnership against a load of PL teams would probably work better (when we're required to attack a park the bus team, who has little intent on pressing us back) but he's absolutely key for the big games. And it's the big games this club lives for surely?

Although sayin all that, if we're hoping to get the most out of Johnson and Insua in an attacking sense, he's probably the best player in the world who can cover them adequately. It's probably why Barca wanted him- to hold the fort and spring into action if a bare right/left flank is attacked on the counter.

No way should he be sold or dropped for most games. Some games... sure- and I think Lucas in the last few games as the sole DM has showed he can perhaps do it (which I didn't think he could). Against the Stokes of this world, he should perhaps be playing instead of Mascherano in CM, with Aquilani and Gerrard ahead of him supporting Torres.

I'd not like to see a Lucas/Aquilani CM when up against a Chelsea, Man U or Barcelona in the CL though. With Mascherano in there, there's little danger that top players will be able to express themselves freely in the areas of the pitch in which he operates. Kept Kaka in his back pocket in the CL final 07 all game. He goes off and Kaka's setting up the killer blow within minutes...

[Captain Relief]

By the way, have people here on RAWK heard about the Argentinian journalist who claims that some sort of motor/machine was put inside Mascherano as a test when he was a teenager, and that's why he's physically so good? Of course I think it's rubbish, but it's received a lot of attention in Argentina... and believe me or not, it's not a joke! (I'm fairly new on this forum, so don't know if it's been discussed here at all...)

[graffspider]

I agree with above comments. I would have put these earlier comments in a white box if i only knew how lol (any suggestions)

Click the 'Quote' button at the top-right of the post. Everything inside the quote tags will appear in a box.

[Uhoh AureliOs]

By the way, have people here on RAWK heard about the Argentinian journalist who claims that some sort of motor/machine was put inside Mascherano as a test when he was a teenager, and that's why he's physically so good? Of course I think it's rubbish, but it's received a lot of attention in Argentina... and believe me or not, it's not a joke! (I'm fairly new on this forum, so don't know if it's been discussed here at all...)

The Fiat viral?

[Franck Le Poof]

People said similar things about Alonso's importance.

Completely different players and situations granted but I am certain that Mascherano, like Xabi before him, will only get the full recognition he deserves once he has gone.

I don't think so.

He's a key player in our team and the best in the world at what he does, which, important as it is, is a fairly limited job. There isn't a better player in the world at breaking up opposition play and in that department we'd struggle to find an adept replacement. What we could find, however, is a player who is good at breaking up play, and has the technical ability to keep us ticking, someone more complete, like Yaya Toure, for example.

We missed Alonso sorely because he was a luxury that was central to our play, a luxury very few other teams in the world have in their ranks. Mascherano, though the best, has a multitude of likenesses in the football world and should his head be turned by Barcelona again (debatable if it ever was) or anyone else, we wouldn't struggle to replace him as badly. Doubly so if we don't signed a crocked-for-another-five-months replacement.

I want him to stay, but I wouldn't be too worried for our team if he left. Rafa has an excellent track record when it comes to buying central midfielders and just as he uncovered Sissoko, and gambled on Mascherano to turn him into one of the best defensive midfielers in the world, I'm sure he'd find us someone else.

[Captain Relief]

The Fiat viral?

yea I think so... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQuUovFgcVI there's the document film with english subtitles.

[BrettD]

He's massively important and every effort should be made to ensure he spends the rest of his days playing here.

[firing squad]

People said similar things about Alonso's importance.

Completely different players and situations granted but I am certain that Mascherano, like Xabi before him, will only get the full recognition he deserves once he has gone.

this.

[wednesday25052005]

He's awesome imho

I remember a couple/few christmas ago (just before Christmas) when we battered Portsmouth at Anfield and Torres got all the plaudits (granted his finishing was class) for the goals.

But the man of the match by a mile was Mascherano who covered every inch of the pitch and tackled and broke up anything Portsmouth attempted.

He is a one off in my opinion the best in the business at what he does and I do believe he has a passion for this club which combined with his skills is just great for Liverpool Football Club.

I was at the Chelsea European Cup tie when he was absent and it was glaring how much we missed him that evening.

He's had a dip in form lately but there's now doubting, imho, how important he is to us.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Javier Mascherano for me has been the best defensive midfielder we've had at the club since Didi Hamann. If he's allowed to patrol in front of the back four he's absolutely brilliant.

What doesn't make it obvious though is that were playing two DM's and him and Lucas are both held back. I'd love to see Lucas freed from his defensive duties for a game and just let Masch do what Masch does because i think we'd see the best out of both players.

It would help us create alot more from midfield i think.

This is my opinion also.

[wednesday25052005]

Javier Mascherano for me has been the best defensive midfielder we've had at the club since Didi Hamann. If he's allowed to patrol in front of the back four he's absolutely brilliant.

What doesn't make it obvious though is that were playing two DM's and him and Lucas are both held back. I'd love to see Lucas freed from his defensive duties for a game and just let Masch do what Masch does because i think we'd see the best out of both players.

It would help us create alot more from midfield i think.

Agreed - it'd be worth a shot just once even to see how it'd pan out

[carling]

In my view we have 4 world class players Reina Mascharano Gerrard and Torres,any other team in the world would want that as their spine so we should try and keep it intact

Indeed.

They are our 4 most high profile and valuable players for a reason.

[Filler.]

I'm in two minds about Mash, but the better half says he's bloody important. The other half says he could bring in £20-30m to be used in a player that can play all across the three (as in Arda Turan).

But he's there to allow us to play, and when we're on our game, he allows us to play with some freedom. Wether we could do the same with a Lucas/Aqui or Lucas/SG or SG/Aqui partnership is another question (I have severe doubts about Aqui and Lucas together - who will gloriously prove me wrong tonight) but I think Mash needs a proper partner and/or outlet. Lucas has done well with him at times, but it's going to be a hard push to get that great balance between Mash and you know who.

I'm glad he's here tho, as I do feel better when he starts.

I don't think we'd benefit from asking Lucas do his role for a number of reasons either. Firstly, nobody mops up as good as Mash. Secondly, we would lose out on the occasional, and bright ghosting run of Lucas, and thirdly, nobody mops up as good as Mash. Maths eh?

But this is assuming that the 4231 we've had going for a while will continue... maybe it wont? Time will tell.

On the shooting from 30 yards question... I think he's got one of the best cracks on him (that's not a quote from Carra either). He always keeps his head over the ball and often gets close... closer than bloody Paul Ince did anyway and that's a fact!