Topic: Liverpool 1 - 2 Arsenal Post game chat

[Beninger]

They did. You don't remember the statement they issued for breaking the negotiations off and Rafa's frustrations in the conferences later on? Don't get me wrong, they are horrible and we need new owners, also I'm glad coco left... but let's be honest, Rafa got it wrong with Alonso. One of his biggest mistakes.

How so?  He was forced to sell...I don't think he wanted to.  But in order to change the look of the team for what he thought was the best, he needed to sell.  You don't think he wanted to keep Alonso?  My point is, he had his best season after Rafa NEEDED to sell him...Xabi was still upset a year later.

[k.7]

6 seasons and once we fisenhsed 2nd.   lets all hail king rafa. 5 of those seasons we where nowhere. Get a fucking grip people. 

and 2004/05 champions of europe,  2005/06 fa cup winners, community shield winners, 2006/07 another champions league final...wouldnt say we were nowhere..

[gritsvanilla]

He didn't want to replace him.  He wanted to add him...to the left that is.  To feed Keane.  He was forced to sell Alonso to pay for the deal.  It's the story of his tenure, actually.

Equally as worrying that he saw Barry as an option for the left when he's even less effective there than in the Centre, still when he was given the ultimatum he still opted for Barry over Alonso.

[rushyman]

Its the owners faults.......... lol

I didnt say that now did I?

[Beninger]

Equally as worrying that he saw Barry as an option for the left when he's even less effective there than in the Centre, still when he was given the ultimatum he still opted for Barry over Alonso.

We don't know that Barry wouldn't have got us better than second do we?  And to remind you, Alonso wasn't playing like he did his last year, the two previous years.

[D Coop Ulster]

I'm guessing we finished outside the top 4 in the other seasons then. We finished 5th once?.... when we won the Champions League with an average squad, but with a manager who gave them believe to play above themselves? your kidding.

Get a grip mate. A poor 4 months doenst mean Rafa is shit. Sacking him now would mean more debt changing managers, plus a few of our big name players leaving. Rafa's going nowhere. Because he's the right man to manage this club.

The rigth e
the rightman.... ffs this guy has deivered us nothing since 2006 ffs wake up people. One good season and u all cream urself

[D Coop Ulster]

its the owners fault.... blah blah blah.......

[Mr Kipling]

The rigth e
the rightman.... ffs this guy has deivered us nothing since 2006 ffs wake up people. One good season and u all cream urself

like i asked earlier, who do you think should replace him.

Dont say Mourinho, because you're going to, are'nt you

[gritsvanilla]

We don't know that Barry wouldn't have got us better than second do we?  And to remind you, Alonso wasn't playing like he did his last year, the two previous years.

No of course not it's all hypothetical. I know how ordinary Gareth Barry is though and how exceptionally gifted Xabi Alonso is, so all i can do is use that information as a yardstick, in the end Benitez was given the option of Barry or Alonso and chose to focus his efforts on Barry, i know who i'd prefer in my Centre Midfield every time and that is the lad from Basque.

Incidentally i got into several discussions at the time over Alonso's supposed lack of form over the 2 previous seasons, now whilst i agree Alonso was not as magnificent as he was last season his form had been incredibly undervalued, every time Xabi had been out we'd looked second rate yet every time he returned (occasionally after a slow start due to being injured) we'd return to our usual form of completely dominating the oppo and controlling the tempo and flow of the game, strangely enough minus Alonso this season we have looked strictly second rate.

[J18]

The rigth e
the rightman.... ffs this guy has deivered us nothing since 2006 ffs wake up people. One good season and u all cream urself

2005 for wenger. Sack him too.

Forgot he won the League cup. ah, that proves it then.

[Beninger]

No of course not it's all hypothetical. I know how ordinary Gareth Barry is though and how exceptionally gifted Xabi Alonso is, so all i can do is use that information as a yardstick, in the end Benitez was given the option of Barry or Alonso and chose to focus his efforts on Barry, i know who i'd prefer in my Centre Midfield every time and that is the lad from Basque.

Incidentally i got into several discussions at the time over Alonso's supposed lack of form over the 2 previous seasons, now whilst i agree Alonso was not as magnificent as he was last season his form had been incredibly undervalued, every time Xabi had been out we'd looked second rate yet every time he returned (occasionally after a slow start due to being injured) we'd return to our usual form of completely dominating the oppo and controlling the tempo and flow of the game, strangely enough minus Alonso this season we have looked strictly second rate.

No doubt he's class, and we play a system that was built around Alonso.  We're still playing that system now.  Probably because, once again, we haven't been able to get the players we needed to change. 

I rate him highly.  So did Rafa.  But clearly, he played to his pinnacle, and we did great.  When he wasn't in the system, we suffered.  When he was in the system and under par, we suffered.  A system built around him.  I just think that Rafa was looking to make us far more attacking, maybe without 2 holding mids. 

Now we're stuck without the players he wanted, without the player our system was designed around, and a very bleak future.  I just don't put it all on Rafa, because he wanted to let Alonso go before his best season ever.

[shadowraith]

Don't know where to start hurt, disgusted, upset, worried etc...............
mixed emotions trying to just look at the positives but its getting increasingly frustrating. We can curse the reff, the players, Rafa the world but its not getting any better. I fear we are going to have to do some thing drastic to get out of this rut. Maybe change shape use some of the younger lads that are hungry maybe that can turn us around. Aqalani clearly needs fitness. Dirk is having a poor season dispite popping up with goals. Car need to stop hoofing the ball. This season has an air on the Houllier last days i hope to God it gets better. Maybe time to move Steven to the right and bring in Pacheco. And give Ayala a run in place if Car..... I don't know......

I thought we lacked natural width today on the left especially that obviously made a difference. At the end of the day we also need to defend better.

[gritsvanilla]

Shadow we've lacked natural width all season without Riera, as we did before he joined, in spite of his erratic displays he offers that one thing nobody else (bar maybe Johnson) offers, genuine width, he's been sorely missed this season imho.

[Paul_h]

as hansen said, it was indivual errors that cost us today. johnson had the wind taken out of him earlier in the game, and maybe that took the edge of his game..

but, i really think we are on the brink..............


of getting a decent win! the team needs to bust a gut to get a win against wigan. just do whatever it takes...and go on from there....hopfully we'll soon have riera back too

Torres should have done better than shooting straight at the goalie when 1 on 1. couple more games and hopefully he will be scoring for fun.

the only way the owners can redeem themselves is coughing up the £20m in  jan that was promised last summer, and let the manager buy whatever renforcements is needed.

it was the owners that took the huge gamble in not letting rafa buy a decent back up striker. they probably thought that the team could manage with only torres, as in the 2nd half of last year. so, it looks like finishing 2nd last year counted against Rafa!!!

[shadowraith]

Shadow we've lacked natural width all season without Riera, as we did before he joined, in spite of his erratic displays he offers that one thing nobody else (bar maybe Johnson) offers, genuine width, he's been sorely missed this season imho.

True statement ....I'm not familiar with all the reserve boys but does any one know of any that can help with some width on the left. 

[gritsvanilla]

True statement ....I'm not familiar with all the reserve boys but does any one know of any that can help with some width on the left. 

Amoo has looked decent for the ressies when i've seen him but i'm not sure he's ready for the step up just yet, Pacheco is though imho and i can't for the life of me understand why he wasn't on the bench today.

[rushyman]

as hansen said, it was indivual errors that cost us today. johnson had the wind taken out of him earlier in the game, and maybe that took the edge of his game..

but, i really think we are on the brink..............


of getting a decent win! the team needs to bust a gut to get a win against wigan. just do whatever it takes...and go on from there..

Torres should have done better than shooting straight at the goalie when 1 on 1. couple more games and hopefully he will be scoring for fun.

the only way the owners can redeem themselves is coughing up the £20m in  jan that was promised last summer, and let the manager buy whatever renforcements is needed.

it was the owners that took the huge gamble in not letting rafa buy a decent back up striker. they probably thought that the team could manage with torres only as in the 2nd half of last year. so, it looks like finishing 2nd last year counted against Rafa!!!

Paul come on hes let Robbie Keane, Crouch and Bellamy go. All very decent back up strikers

The Torres strike at the goalie was pure rust. In mid flow he takes that in his stride and just caress's that over  Almunia whod gone to ground so early he was practically fucking break-dancing as it came to Nando

[Reds Shankly]

We did good at first half, IMO. Keep the ball, high pressure and tempo of course.
But that own goal change everything, and really really bad performance at 2nd half.

Gutted.

[Paul_h]

Paul come on hes let Robbie Keane, Crouch and Bellamy go. All very decent back up strikers

The Torres strike at the goalie was pure rust. In mid flow he takes that in his stride and just caress's that over  Almunia whod gone to ground so early he was practically fucking break-dancing as it came to Nando

bellamy was a trouble maker, as was keane. crouchie wanted to leave, (probably got bad advice), to help his england career.
look where he is now...3rd choice at spurs..

the owners have lied and publicly, undermined the manager. since when has extending players contracts been part of the equation. maybe that has spread to the players? (undermining the manager)..

[Obviously]

its the owners fault.... blah blah blah.......

I mentioned this in another thread a couple of days ago, but i still feel there should be an automatic ban for c*nts. Or maybe a voting system, if you get voted a c*nt by for example 25 people you get banned.

[tommyLFC]

6 seasons and once we fisenhsed 2nd.   lets all hail king rafa. 5 of those seasons we where nowhere. Get a fucking grip people.

except champions of europe!
Were you born stupid or were you just raised in manchester?

[tommyLFC]

Dalglish, Hodgson, Pandelli, van Basten, no shortage of managers really.

of course, whoever the new manager is, enjoy having no transfer budget and 40,000 moaning c*nts every home game.

Would you honestly take any of them over Rafa? Not even Dalglish could do it.
If, robbie fowler forbid, rafa leaves, mancini will be brought in

[rattusdei]

Would you honestly take any of them over Rafa? Not even Dalglish could do it.
If, robbie fowler forbid, rafa leaves, mancini will be brought in

not in my hands.. and of that list, we'd realistically only get Hodgson. it'd be a step up for him.
if robbie fowler really, really hates us, sammy lee takes over.

[rattusdei]

Paul come on hes let Robbie Keane, Crouch and Bellamy go. All very decent back up strikers

I wish we'd have kept Crouch, but no way we can pay him what the spuds are paying, and no way he'll get more games than Torres.

Robbie Keane ? the hell? where were you last season? do you ENJOY looking at airshots ? do you like seeing that grimace on his face?

[rushyman]

bellamy was a trouble maker, as was keane. crouchie wanted to leave, (probably got bad advice), to help his england career.
look where he is now...3rd choice at spurs..

the owners have lied and publicly, undermined the manager. since when has extending players contracts been part of the equation. maybe that has spread to the players? (undermining the manager)..

I was simply saying that hes let strikers go I wasnt bigging the owners up. didnt even mention them in fact

[tommyLFC]

not in my hands.. and of that list, we'd realistically only get Hodgson. it'd be a step up for him.
if robbie fowler really, really hates us, sammy lee takes over.

Owen Coyle would be a better alternative to Hodgson. I reckon make Steve Clarke Coyle's assistant, and you won't find much better (except rafa of course)

[Gee, Stevie]

John Carew would be a brilliant back-up to Torres.  Unfortunately we can't afford the array of strikers Villa can

[tommyLFC]

John Carew would be a brilliant back-up to Torres.  Unfortunately we can't afford the array of strikers Villa can

Wouldn't mind Benni McCarthy, he should come cheap enough

[Mad Men]

We got Wengered tactically....and thats about it really. 6 losses in the league in a season and we're only in december...christ....but, that was Arsenal...

[GurjandoTorres]

Fuck you webb

[greatbritton]

Paul come on hes let Robbie Keane, Crouch and Bellamy go. All very decent back up strikers

this is just the same shite that sky annoucers come out with, THEY LEFT.  he didnt let them go (maybe keane) these players wanted to leave and fight for their place elsewhere. it wasn' a fight here when we had torres, he is the best striker in the world there is no way they would displace him.

its the same shit with alonso, "Rafa shouldn't have let him go." He fought tooth and nail to keep him, he didnt want to let him go, was forced to in the end. Unbelieveable how many people buy into the sky generation's what have you done for me today attidude. face it, rafa has done better than anybody else could have done in his position form 2004, he has restored us to a fighting force in both europe and the league. a few bad months does not a manager make.

[tommyLFC]

I'm not sure Bellamy wanted to leave, although his wages were huge so maybe that's the reason

[CaribKing]

its the same shit with alonso, "Rafa shouldn't have let him go." He fought tooth and nail to keep him, he didnt want to let him go, was forced to in the end.

There is evidence for the argument that Rafa tried to offload him the season before to sign Barry and that Alonso wouldn't have left if he'd had more respect. Whatever the real reason, we are certainly missing Alonso now.

[rowan_d]

Absolutely seething at hat second half performance. Its displays like that which may well lead to Rafa being sacked, even though he got it spot on yesterday in terms of selection, motivation and tactics. So what the fuck keeps happening at half time. I very much doubt that Rafa told our players to start jogging around, letting Arsenal take as long as they needed to build attacks, or simply pass it around once they were leading. As the game went on, Torres and Gerrard seperated more and more to the point where onew would be in the right corner, the other still on the left wing making no attempt to make a cross a feasible option. And if Carragher and Agger insist on hitting long ball after long ball, it would be nice if the front men would make some attempt at a challenge.

Reina - Nothing to do except pick the ball out of his net, nothing he could do about either goal
Johnson - Good first half, own goal destroyed his confidence to attack
Agger - Good first half, some nice balls to the wing. Poor second half, far too many hoofs
Carragher - Good first half, kept it simple. Same second half as Agger. Poor attempt at a block for OG
Aurelio* - Good delivery first half, and good outlet in attack. Invisible second half, poor positioning for OG
Mascherano - Excellent first half, lack of involvement and inensity second half. Impressive passing
Lucas - Same as above pretty much
Kuyt - Good finish, poor general performance throughout
Gerrard* - Nice touches early on, great pass that Torres should have finished. Frustration grew until he became ineffective
Benayoun* - Poor throughout. Back to the Benayoun of old, one touch too many whenever he was in a good position
Torres* - Tried doing far too much whenever he had the ball. Poor attempt with his only shot on goal. Was visibly frustrated by lack of service

Subs
Aquilani* - Did okay, unfortunately for him he came on around the time we started bypassing the midfield
Degen - Did well I thought, wasn't tested in defense and showed some nice touches
Ngog - At least tried to win the aerial balls and hold the ball up. Not much chance to impress.

*-Players who have recently come back from injury, or have suffered niggling injuries throughout the season.

[vader90]

Webb and Carra cost us big time. Fabio's game riddled with mistakes in an otherwise outstanding first half(what amazing pressing) came to haunt us in the second half as he first wasn't in the correct defensive position and then forgot to close down the cross to the near post which was easily overrun by Carra - who should have clearly hoofed it - and then struck Glen. And then for the second goal Carra misses a header and then Arshavin has the post to help him.

[CaribKing]

and then Arshavin has the post to help him.

quality ! 

[fefs]

Fuck you webb

[Twelfth Customer]

Quality is quality, you can talk about balance. But Arshavin's goal was sublime. Great 1st half could and should have been 2-up. The season starts on Wednesday.

So wanted us to go for Arshavin after the Euros alas players like him would never fit into Rafa's system with its balance.

Gerrard has his back too much to the goal. And was peripheral in the 2nd half. I would have taken off Lucas and partnered Aquilani with Masch, but I guess the injury may have played a part in the decision.

Not too worried if we don't make 4th this season, and I feel a lot of the players feel the same way, each loss becomes that much less painful for both us.

At least G&H's investment will go down the drain.

[Mr Rossi]

Has anyone read that artical buy that fat twat Martin Samuel in the Daily Fail? I couldn't bring myself to read as my blood started to boil when I read the headline with his big fat smug face next to it.   The headline is : "Rafael Benitez - you are lucky to have won more than Graeme Souness at Liverpool"

[Twelfth Customer]

Has anyone read that artical buy that fat twat Martin Samuel in the Daily Fail? I couldn't bring myself to read as my blood started to boil when I read the headline with his big fat smug face next to it.   The headline is : "Rafael Benitez - you are lucky to have won more than Graeme Souness at Liverpool"

fat cnut