Topic: Rafa knows a good book when he sees one...

[Z e u s]

Whats your point?

I think the point is clear, he didn't leave because of his record in Europe which was superb.  He left because he wasn't good enough in the league, bar that one season we challenged for the title.

I love Rafa and will buy this book and remember the good times.  But I wouldn't want him back here anytime soon, he had his chance now it is time for us to be 100% behind Dalglish (which I am sure you are) and give him the time Benitez had.

[Blade]

He left because he wasn't good enough in the league, bar that one season we challenged for the title.

Yet, he has still managed a better win percentage in the league than Shankly or Paisley. Think about it before replying.

[ThepepeReina]

I think the point is clear, he didn't leave because of his record in Europe which was superb.  He left because he wasn't good enough in the league, bar that one season we challenged for the title.

I love Rafa and will buy this book and remember the good times.  But I wouldn't want him back here anytime soon, he had his chance now it is time for us to be 100% behind Dalglish (which I am sure you are) and give him the time Benitez had.

Benitez even challenging once was over achieving. Competing with chelsea united and arsenal we should never of even got near the title. Him being so good contributed to his own downfall, expectations where massive after that season.

[Cormack Snr]

With such a great spine of a team Rafa should of won us the league in 2008-09, With the likes of Riena, Sami, Agger, Carra, Gerrard, Kuyt, Alonso, Mach and Torres we had a wonderful team.
 The whole team at the moment and current players apart from the usual subjects are far below the standard that is required.

[RedinExile]

Benitez even challenging once was over achieving. Competing with chelsea united and arsenal we should never of even got near the title. Him being so good contributed to his own downfall, expectations where massive after that season.

Is the right answer mate. Funny how certain people's expectations have suddenly plummeted, yet when Rafa was here with the cancers hellbent on destroying the club he was somehow failing. That we didn't win the league doesn't highlight any failings, it rather brilliantly illustrates the blokes superb appreciation of how to get LFC challenging on all fronts, with two hands tied behind his back, whilst whalloping the shit out of Madrid and Utd. Not good enough for us like, nosireebob, as it's more important Steve Bruce and Martin O'Neill like us.

[RedinExile]

With such a great spine of a team Rafa should of won us the league in 2008-09, With the likes of Riena, Sami, Agger, Carra, Gerrard, Kuyt, Alonso, Mach and Torres we had a wonderful team.
 The whole team at the moment and current players apart from the usual subjects are far below the standard that is required.

Never quite understand these types of post mate, no offence intended. Unless you look at some of Kenny's seasons in charge and also conclude he 'should' have won us the league. As long as we are competitive up until the last that will do me, as that tends to bring titles (and gut-wrenching failures) if the momentum is kept us consistently. I guess what I am saying is I saw that season as a partial success, a platform ready to build a dynasty on. Then we fucked it all up and tossed everything out the winda!

[Z e u s]

Yet, he has still managed a better win percentage in the league than Shankly or Paisley. Think about it before replying.

Different time, different situation.

Benitez did a very good job, but in the end he was rightly sacked IMO as I think with the team we had we should have challenged for the title more than once in his six years.  In his last season we didn't get top four and with the players we had that was very disappointing.

Now we have Dalglish as our manager, we should back him and give him the time Benitez got, not calling for Benitez to be our manager again - we already have a manager and one who deserves time.

[zero zero]

Lads, it's hard to ignore that beaut if you keep quoting him Nice response though ThepepeReina

[Blade]

Lads, it's hard to ignore that beaut if you keep quoting him

Sorry, my mistake. He is being ignored from now on.

[thelinnen]

He left because he wasn't good enough in the league, bar that one season we challenged for the title.

No he wasn't.

[Sangria]

Different time, different situation.

Benitez did a very good job, but in the end he was rightly sacked IMO as I think with the team we had we should have challenged for the title more than once in his six years.  In his last season we didn't get top four and with the players we had that was very disappointing.

Now we have Dalglish as our manager, we should back him and give him the time Benitez got, not calling for Benitez to be our manager again - we already have a manager and one who deserves time.

Absolutely. Given the team he had, why couldn't he win the title? Shit manager, wasting a wealth of talent he was given. Oh wait, who was it who assembled that collection of talent?

Still, quite predictable from someone who was whinging during the 2008-09 season, the best league season we'd had in 20 years, and you were still moaning.

[GeneticRed]

Different time, different situation.

Benitez did a very good job, but in the end he was rightly sacked IMO as I think with the team we had we should have challenged for the title more than once in his six years.  In his last season we didn't get top four and with the players we had that was very disappointing.

Now we have Dalglish as our manager, we should back him and give him the time Benitez got, not calling for Benitez to be our manager again - we already have a manager and one who deserves time.

United hadn't won the league for 26/27 years. It had become like a giant immovable boulder the club could not budge.

No matter what they did they could not oust us and break our dominance. A guy came down from managing Aberdeen and although he had some other success even he could not move the fucking great big stone. But he was getting closer and closer and they could sense that if they stuck with him he'd have a chance of finally getting there and eventually he fucking moved it. And look at them now. They've well and truly broke their curse and shattered our dominance.

When Rafa took over we found ourselves in the same position they did before they eventually ended it yet he took the club closer than its ever been since 1991.
It was the closest we've come to breaking our own curse. With the right set up behind the scenes he'd have undoubtedly broken it.
To say he should have challenged more often is IMO to be naive about english football's history in the last 30 years.

[Z e u s]

Still, quite predictable from someone who was whinging during the 2008-09 season, the best league season we'd had in 20 years, and you were still moaning.

No I wasn't. 

Look some people didn't want Benitez sacked, others did - it was very 50/50 in the end for the support for Benitez.  People are allowed thier own opinions and I respect people who wanted to keep him, fair enough - but I didn't and thought we needed a change after 6 seasons. 

But he has gone, he has had his time and I wish people would stop mentioning him as a potential manager here - we have a manager and he deserves the time and patience Benitez got!

[Z e u s]

To say he should have challenged more often is IMO to be naive about english football's history in the last 30 years.

Anyone who uses the term "naive", doesn't warrant a response from me.  It is a cheap way of putting down someones opinion.

[Redeo]

With such a great spine of a team Rafa should of won us the league in 2008-09, With the likes of Riena, Sami, Agger, Carra, Gerrard, Kuyt, Alonso, Mach and Torres we had a wonderful team.
 The whole team at the moment and current players apart from the usual subjects are far below the standard that is required.

That's a great team Rafa built, indeed!

[Passmaster Molby]

I think the point is clear, he didn't leave because of his record in Europe which was superb.  He left because he wasn't good enough in the league, bar that one season we challenged for the title.

I love Rafa and will buy this book and remember the good times.  But I wouldn't want him back here anytime soon, he had his chance now it is time for us to be 100% behind Dalglish (which I am sure you are) and give him the time Benitez had.

Under Rafa you do realise we achieved the Second best league points total in the clubs HISTORY (points per league game during a season) only beaten by Bob's 1978-79 team?

Until we are told otherwise we need to back Kenny, but please don't try and belittle Rafa's achievements for this club.

[RedinExile]

Anyone who uses the term "naive", doesn't warrant a response from me.  It is a cheap way of putting down someones opinion.

But your opinion is that he deserved to be sacked for not winning the league with the cancers in charge. Hard to find another term for it to be honest.

[GeneticRed]

Anyone who uses the term "naive", doesn't warrant a response from me.  It is a cheap way of putting down someones opinion.

Ok fair enough you've got me, i'm cheap.
You have responded though 
Maybe instead of 'to be naive about' would be better replaced with "to greatly overlook".

[Z e u s]

Under Rafa you do realise we achieved the Second best league points total in the clubs HISTORY (points per league game during a season) only beaten by Bob's 1978-79 team?

Until we are told otherwise we need to back Kenny, but please don't try and belittle Rafa's achievements for this club.

I am not belittling his achievements, he was superb in Europe with us.  I think he was rightly sacked, others disagree - fair enough.

But your opinion is that he deserved to be sacked for not winning the league with the cancers in charge. Hard to find another term for it to be honest.

I didn't say he had to win us the league, I said only one 'challenge' in six years given the players we had was not good enough IMO.  If you disagree, fair enough.

It will always split opinions Benitez.  But we should all agree he has had his time and now we back Dalglish and he gets the time Benitez got.

[Gainsbarre]

No I wasn't. 

Look some people didn't want Benitez sacked, others did - it was very 50/50 in the end for the support for Benitez.  People are allowed thier own opinions and I respect people who wanted to keep him, fair enough - but I didn't and thought we needed a change after 6 seasons. 

But he has gone, he has had his time and I wish people would stop mentioning him as a potential manager here - we have a manager and he deserves the time and patience Benitez got!

With a troll like you this thread will always degenerate at Kenny vs Rafa debate... Most, on here (rawk) knows what Benitez has done for that club and in what conditions it was done.. so I'll say nothing really reasonable but just to piss off.. So PISS OFF!

[alvaro]

That is a book I will have to read.

[GeneticRed]

I am not belittling his achievements, he was superb in Europe with us.  I think he was rightly sacked, others disagree - fair enough.

I didn't say he had to win us the league, I said only one 'challenge' in six years given the players we had was not good enough IMO.  If you disagree, fair enough.

It will always split opinions Benitez.  But we should all agree he has had his time and now we back Dalglish and he gets the time Benitez got.

I do disagree. And Benitez has had his time. But he may come again. And if he does its worth considering the specific context of his first period with us and particularly respecting the recent history of english football. If you choose to overlook it you will always be challenged on it by knowledgable fans. That is not say you're not knowledgeable. Just that knowledgeable fans will always challenge you on it.

One challenge in six years and an unbelievable record in Europe was doing for it me.

[PaulMcC]

It will always split opinions Benitez.  But we should all agree he has had his time and now we back Dalglish and he gets the time Benitez got.

Dalglish will be backed but why doe she need the same time as Benitez? If he does well for 5 years, he'll get 6 years. If he has a couple of crap seasons in a row, he'll go.

[john_mac]

Rafa was a great manager for Liverpool, Kenny has been and will be again, neither could compare with Paisley's record nor Shanley's personality or achievement of building two great teams (though Kenny may in the future), comparisons are, at best futile,

That said I thought that the thread was about Mark's book!

[Z e u s]

Dalglish will be backed but why doe she need the same time as Benitez? If he does well for 5 years, he'll get 6 years. If he has a couple of crap seasons in a row, he'll go.

Not saying he does need five or six years.

I think we are in agreement.

[geoffstrong]

I am not belittling his achievements, he was superb in Europe with us.  I think he was rightly sacked, others disagree - fair enough.

I didn't say he had to win us the league, I said only one 'challenge' in six years given the players we had was not good enough IMO.  If you disagree, fair enough.

It will always split opinions Benitez.  But we should all agree he has had his time and now we back Dalglish and he gets the time Benitez got.

Rightly sacked who are you Purslow , Jesus Christ why do you keep spamming threads with your attention seeking bile like this, he is respected not only for what happened on the pitch but a hell of a lot more for what happened off the pitch!

Also although you are hoping to turn this into a Kenny versus Rafa Thread it is possible that a hell of a lot of us respect both managers and a few more as well, like Bill, Bob, Joe, Roy, Gerard. Look em up!

[Geezer08]

Yet, he has still managed a better win percentage in the league than Shankly or Paisley. Think about it before replying.

Think before replying ?? You do know this is RAWk right?

[Red Genius]

Rightly sacked who are you Purslow , Jesus Christ why do you keep spamming threads with your attention seeking bile like this, he is respected not only for what happened on the pitch but a hell of a lot more for what happened off the pitch!

Also although you are hoping to turn this into a Kenny versus Rafa Thread it is possible that a hell of a lot of us respect both managers and a few more as well, like Bill, Bob, Joe, Roy, Gerard. Look em up!

Rightly sacked eh... i suppose he agreed he should have been given the boot because the media told our club so 

[geoffstrong]

Lets get back to the book before this gets diverted by some, it is one book that I will be getting!

[Sangria]

Under Rafa you do realise we achieved the Second best league points total in the clubs HISTORY (points per league game during a season) only beaten by Bob's 1978-79 team?

Until we are told otherwise we need to back Kenny, but please don't try and belittle Rafa's achievements for this club.

Benitez's greatest achievement was to come in as an outsider, and fully immerse himself in the club and the city's spirit, eventually embodying the club's ideals as much as those other great figures from the past like Shankly and Dalglish, also outsiders who took the club into their hearts. His football achievements with LFC weren't bad either.

[Passmaster Molby]

I can't wait to get a bit more insight into how much he planned for each game, how he took a bunch of individuals with supposed less ability than many opponents, yet somehow managed to form them into a strong unit and provide them with a gameplan which they followed to the letter. Our record in europe was frightening when you think about, so many epic matches and fantastic scalps.

We were the most feared side in europe for 3-4 seasons and nobody wanted to play us, including Real, Barca, Milan and Munich!

[Z e u s]

Lets get back to the book before this gets diverted by some, it is one book that I will be getting!

I will as well.

Sorry didn't mean to take it off topic.

[bobadicious]

Is the right answer mate. Funny how certain people's expectations have suddenly plummeted, yet when Rafa was here with the cancers hellbent on destroying the club he was somehow failing. That we didn't win the league doesn't highlight any failings, it rather brilliantly illustrates the blokes superb appreciation of how to get LFC challenging on all fronts, with two hands tied behind his back, whilst whalloping the shit out of Madrid and Utd. Not good enough for us like, nosireebob, as it's more important Steve Bruce and Martin O'Neill like us.

This. It's odd how his high standards are used as a stick by his detractors to beat him with. He sold alonso. He bought alonso, oh and by the way the manager should be able to buy and sell who he wants. He didn't win the league. He came as closer to winning the league than any LFC manger in the last 20odd years. Remember at the time the premier league was the best league in Europe with prem getting more teams further in champs league than any other country. A Rafa team would've walked the league this year. The fact that he did anything at all with THE WORST OWNERS IN LFC HISTORY who tended to undermine his every move speaks volumes for the man but alas for some he will just be the man who signed that rubbish andrea voronin. I mean who gives a fuck, he was on a free.

[L666KOP]

We were the most feared side in europe for 3-4 seasons and nobody wanted to play us, including Real, Barca, Milan and Munich!

I miss those nights......

[TSC]

This. It's odd how his high standards are used as a stick by his detractors to beat him with. He sold alonso. He bought alonso, oh and by the way the manager should be able to buy and sell who he wants. He didn't win the league. He came as closer to winning the league than any LFC manger in the last 20odd years. Remember at the time the premier league was the best league in Europe with prem getting more teams further in champs league than any other country. A Rafa team would've walked the league this year. The fact that he did anything at all with THE WORST OWNERS IN LFC HISTORY who tended to undermine his every move speaks volumes for the man but alas for some he will just be the man who signed that rubbish andrea voronin. I mean who gives a fuck, he was on a free.

C'mon let's keep on topic otherwise it joins the other threads in the graveyard of locked Rafa threads.   Should be an interesting read - particularly look forward to his views on respective opposition and how he approached & adopted etc.  Would also guess there'll be a fair bit of humour in the content.  Be also good to read his thoughts on the bizarre message he got from Ferguson after 2005, and his take on the 2007 game v Milan.

[GeneticRed]

I miss those nights......

Me too. Crisp, spring nights. The city crackling with excitement. Knowing we were going to take on one of Europe's finest and have every chance of another famous victory. Repeated commentaries on city fm of Aldo screaming as the goals from the earlier rounds were played back. Battle Cries on the back page of the echo.
Golden memories.

[Red Genius]

....Be also good to read his thoughts on the bizarre message he got from Ferguson after 2005

haha... i've never read that, what was the message?

[TSC]

haha... i've never read that, what was the message?

Some weird email or other of congratulations which focused on tactics etc.  Obviously begruged I'd imagine, but rem reading about it at the time, and was bizarre.

[Red Genius]

Some weird email or other of congratulations which focused on tactics etc.  Obviously begruged I'd imagine, but rem reading about it at the time, and was bizarre.

Oh that would be gold in the public domain, i'd love to read that email.

[TSC]

Oh that would be gold in the public domain, i'd love to read that email.

Think he actually wrote a letter to him at the time.  Takes a while for email to his Manchester