Topic: Gambling on Failed Potential - Are there any 'flops' fit for the Kop?

[hesbighesred]

^{*With due credit to the poster who claims not to be Mac_Red but posts in exactly the same style and even reacts to critics in exactly the same way, for I got the original suggestion from him.}

Glen Johnson: £18 million.
Jermaine Pennant: £6.7 million.
Peter Crouch: £7million.

Q) What do all these players have in common, apart from nationality?

A) All of them were available, during Rafa's tenure before we bought them, for relative peanuts - their combined transfer fees to the clubs we eventually bought them from, I do believe, amounted to less than £5million (please correct me if I'm wrong on that).

In any given season, there are players of promise and potential who move to 'bigger' clubs, and 'flop' badly. This often has nothing to do with actual levels of talent. The flopping can happen simply because the club happens to be well stocked in that area already, and the signing should perhaps never have been made (Heskey to Villa, Bentley to Spurs), sometimes the manager simply doesn't fancy the player (Bent at Spurs), sometimes personal problems (Pennant, Micah Richards). In any given season, a number of these players will move to 'lesser' clubs, revive their careers, and sometimes end up stronger and better for the experience, and end up back at top clubs after all.

Now, given our financial situation, and also the CL rules on British players, it's fair to say that we, as a club, have to 'think outside the box' when it comes to transfers. The players I mentioned at the start - their potential was clear before they joined the clubs that sold them to us. Crouch has always been a target man with a good goal record. Even at Villa he had a good goals per appearances record - he just never appeared, largely because Angel was understandably preferred. At least to me, his subsequent form for Southampton came as absolutely no surprise whatsoever, he simply had the games and faith to show talents that were always clear.

Over the last few years there are a lot of players who come into this category, who could at one point have been bought for peanuts, and who could, at the very least, have improved our squad, two more that spring to mind are Gareth Barry and James Milner, both of whom were subsequently interested in but not prepared to pay the eventual fee for. Milner in particular is a player I'm gutted we don't have, I think he's an impressive grafter with a great attitude, great versatility, a real 'Rafa' player, and with no shortage of quality to boot - plus he takes a better set piece with his wrong foot and his eyes closed than anyone in our squad seems to manage even given 250 tries.

These kinds of gambles, to me, make particular sense when it comes to English players, simply because the risk is so low. Look at Pennant - after one terrible season and having been photoed out on the lash around Liverpool, we still had Stoke prepared to bid £5million for him. It's very difficult to lose money if you buy cheap and British. Maybe Glen Johnson is only the player he is thanks to Pompey, but who knows? What we do know is that we could very likely have bought him for peanuts, had solid competition for our RBs during seasons where that competition would have been hugely valuable (especially last season, proper RB cover could easily have made that 4 points difference which cost us the title), and that even if such a player flops again, chances are we could get our money back.

Milner is a great example of that - had several good seasons but was simply not fancied by a particular Newcastle manager and farmed out to Villa. At that point, no-one seemed prepared to take the risk, but he could have been bought for as little as a couple of million - it really wouldn't have taken many good games for us to have made that money back, and even if we didn't £2million isn't a huge loss - not compared to, say, the full fee we eventually lost on Pennant, who again we could have bought a season earlier for £400k or so (I think that was his Brum fee).

I'm curious how other people see this - do you agree that such risks should be worth taking more often? Also, are there any players who fit this category right now? Bentley and Heskey spring to mind for me, players who I personally rate who are being frozen out, but who also have clear potential.

Over to you...

[edeyj]

As soon as we show interest in anyone the fee goes up. So, you can't say that we would have been able to get a particular player for the price he was transferred to another club.

In addition, some of these players only show their true potential once they get the chance at a smaller club.

Prime example is Johnson - no way would Chelsea have contemplated a transfer to us at any sort of reasonable price. Also, not proven at Chelsea.

I can see the point you are making but a bit too simplistic, I think.

[Chakan]

As soon as we show interest in anyone the fee goes up. So, you can't say that we would have been able to get a particular player for the price he was transferred to another club.

Just look at Michael Turner.... we showed interest offered 6mil price went up to 12 and was eventually sold for 4.

[tommyLFC]

adam johnson

[LiverpoolForever]

One that springs to mind is Pavelychenko, but would any price be out of our reach? I saw you mention Quaresma on another topic.He is an intresting one, no doubting his talent but his attitude is questionable, would we be able to rely on him if things get as difficult as they are now without him getting sulky?

[hesbighesred]

OK, here's the discussion from the Glen Johnson thread:

I think we should have signed him a year earlier, though having taken the risks on the likes of Pennant and Bellamy in the same situations (questionable characters who'd hadn't shown to be consistently good over a couple of seasons) I'm not surprised we didn't. In hindsight it would have been the correct call to make. Johnson got another season at Pompey to grow and we had to pay through the nose to get him in the end, but we might not have got the same player if we took the risk a year earlier. I do feel it would have been worth the risk though myself.

Personally speaking I think he should serve as the blueprint for all new signings wherever possible. Talented, athletic and British, but then the fact that he was English seemed to work against him initially 'cos some refuse to trust that there is top class talent on this island waiting to be developed.

I was dissapointed we didn't go in for him when he left Chelsea, I must say. He went on loan and was then sold for, what, £2million? The reincarnation of Mac_Red does make a fair point in terms of Rafa taking those kinds of gambles - there's a couple we've missed out on. EG, if we rated Pennant and Crouch, they were also both available for peanuts a mere season earlier - could have had Crouch for £1.5million of Villa (probably even cheaper because he'd have refused to go anywhere else at that point), ditto Pennant - could have had him for, what, £1-2million when he left Arsenal? It's not like they became better players at their next clubs, just got games when they hadn't before. Whatever potential they had was pretty clear beforehand, or at least it was clear that they HAD potential. Given our finances it would probably make sense to try and gamble on those kind of 'failed' potential buys, instead of letting some other club take that gamble and then make a stupidly large profit at our expense.

Lass Diarra is another tentative one that springs to mind - though in fairness we'd have struggled to give him the games he would have demanded before this season.

Could also say that of Defoe, His goal scoring record when he went to Pompey was very good and it was not like he had not shown what he could do. Would be interesting to pick out several others now without hinesight.

I

Or, at the risk of opening that can of worms, if Rafa rated him so bloody highly as to go through all that shit to get him... Gareth Barry was nearly off to Pompey for £3m when Rafa first came to England, at a time where we could have used a versitile British squaddie with a reasonable amount of ability.

There are bargains there to be had even with young British talent in the Premier League. 

but would they all have been the same players had they not had the full season's football at the lesser clubs.

Absolutley. Milner is another one that springs massively to mind - when he was first loaned for Villa we could have had him for peanuts, and he always looked an ideal player for us, and especially Rafa (to me anyway).Arguably true, but I'd suggest that those clubs in question did very little to actually develop them. What made the difference was faith and thus confidence.

EG, Glen Johnson was a promising attacking RB long before he joined Portsmouth, and Mourinho froze out a few very talented players with good attitudes. Milner was a hugely promising young talent with a great attitude and impressive versatility, with several solid seasons under his belt before a particular manager simply didn't fancy him. He then played great on loan at Villa too. Crouch 'flopped' at Villa - but again he wasn't fancied, had players ahead of him who were fancied and were of a different style. His prior form for Portsmouth always strongly suggested he would make it reasonably big somewhere, I wasn't in the least bit surprised that he did well at Sunderland. I don't think Pennant showed any promise at Brum that wasn't already obvious from his Arsenal appearances. Defoe was a good shout as well, albeit not a player I personally particularly rate - not for our system anyway (too one dimensional).

It's more the general sentiment that, given we all know funds are tight, and that has been the case for ages, and given the value of English players especially at times (plus there's not much gamble buying cheap and English, shit, even Pennant had Stoke happy to fork out £5million after a pretty poor season and being caught out on the piss), it's perhaps worth taking a gamble at some of these promising 'flops'.

Take Walcott as a potential example - if he doesn't settle a place soonish he might just be available for a reasonable fee, and at, say, £5million that wouldn't really be a gamble at all because even if he flopped we could make that back. Just strikes me as an area where a bit more risk might have brought some huge rewards by now - GJ at the time he left Chelsea would have been fine, fine competition for Arbeloa/Finnan who were never going to be a permanent solution, Milner would have been a pretty much no risk squaddie with huge potential, ditto Gaz Baz a few seasons ago as JL points out.

At the risk of going off topic but are there any of those around at the moment? Pretenting not to be Mac Red would suggest Adriano but I think that would be absolutely stupid. My personal suggestion - perhaps odd given how little I've rated him in the past - is one R. Quaresma. I wonder if he might not have re-thought his willing to adapt his game a bit after 2 seasons frozen out by Mourinho, and he would be available for cheap, and an undoubted game-breaker if we could get him playing for us. Heskey, albeit people generally don't rate him, is another I wouldn't mind seeing in January. This might be a fun topic to mull over actually.

Micah Richards?

Bale would probably fit that category. There is a good player in there somewhere. Micah Richards too. Sturridge/Tuncay ?

Bale is a damn good shout - we need strengthening down the left, Aurelio isn't getting any younger or less made of grass. Tuncay is interesting because he isn't getting games at Stoke at all. Micah I find less so, simply because I can't see City letting him go for cheap, unless his problems are so severe that you probably wouldn't want to risk it. Bale, on the other hand, is playing for a manager with a track record of freezing out players who are more than capable of playing well for him (EG Bent).

Coming to think of it Bentley could be worth a shout - I'm not convinced his 'attitude' is as bad as made out - I remember an interview where he talked about players needing 'discipline', and he thrived under Hughes who strikes me as very Rafa-ish in some ways.

I'll get laughed at, but I'd love to go for Bentley if he was reasonably priced

That Glen Johnson's pretty good though isn't he?

[hesbighesred]

As soon as we show interest in anyone the fee goes up. So, you can't say that we would have been able to get a particular player for the price he was transferred to another club.

In addition, some of these players only show their true potential once they get the chance at a smaller club.

Prime example is Johnson - no way would Chelsea have contemplated a transfer to us at any sort of reasonable price. Also, not proven at Chelsea.

I can see the point you are making but a bit too simplistic, I think.

That's a fair point, there is an inflation factor. But look at Milner - Newcastle were desperate to offload him at one point, basically touting him around clubs until eventually Villa took a punt on a loan deal. If we'd have chucked £2million at them then, they'd have surely taken it.]

Pennant is another - Wenger was desperate to offload and has shown with other players that he's prepared to sell to rivals if he doesn't rate a player and he gets a decent fee for it - though coming to think of it didn't Pennant go via leeds?

I think Bentley and Pav are great shouts as well, and I personally rate Heskey.

With fee inflation you also have to take into account if we offered, say, £5million to Spurs for Bentley in Jan, they might want to try and rip us off - but there's also player power. He would surely be desperate to come to us if we offered and would make a fucking massive stink if they started playing silly buggers over the fee - generally if a player hands in a written transfer request clubs take what they can get.

Look at Lassana Diarra as an example of that - went to Arsenal for what, a couple of million or something?

[robbie keane]

Gareth Bale, Roman Pavelachenko, Van Der Vaart, hleb, micheal Johnson

[scatman]

i liked the bale and tuncay suggestions.

Quaresma even though he's a player who i hate for his inadequacies despite all of his talent could be one.

There's also another part i want to add to the thread. South Americans who've come to Europe, not played that often or well and gone back home. Nilmar is a prime example, came early to Lyon, didnt do too bad but not good enough i guess, shipped back to Internacional, signed by Villarreal, Brazil starting lineup. A big change!

[rattusdei]

please, no more free transfers, remember voronin and degen?

[nocturnalvin]

a thinly veiled transfer thread.

[nutmeg94]

HBHR, I think if you're talking exclusively about English players you may have a point about our lack of risk-taking; but it would be unfair to same the same about our attitude towards foreign footballers - Agger, Skrtel, Mascherano, Sissoko, Insua, Lucas, Kuyt, maybe even Benayoun and Aurelio were all relatively little-known or poorly-thought-of right before we swooped in on them, and they have (or at least started to) realised their potential since.

[hesbighesred]

One that springs to mind is Pavelychenko, but would any price be out of our reach? I saw you mention Quaresma on another topic.He is an intresting one, no doubting his talent but his attitude is questionable, would we be able to rely on him if things get as difficult as they are now without him getting sulky?

It's a bit of a left field one, admittedly - I've never rated him precisely because of his attitude. Still, the fact is Rafa has been in for him before, and now that he's flopped at every big club he's been to, Chelsea and Inter now as well as Barca, maybe if Rafa asked again Quaresma would actually be prepared to make the changes Rafa asked of him in the first place.

If he did take that attitude, a willing to really work for it because this would absolutely be his last chance at a top club, then maybe we could get an absolute bargain, because at his best he can be a devastating player of a type and in a position where we're obviously weak.

I like the Bale shout for that very reason too - we're somewhat weak at LW and Aurelio will need replacing before too long, given that we're clearly playing attacking full backs, and given that Rafa has a real track record of improving players' defending, I think he could be a success here.

[bigbear]

It's a bit of a left field one, admittedly - I've never rated him precisely because of his attitude. Still, the fact is Rafa has been in for him before, and now that he's flopped at every big club he's been to, Chelsea and Inter now as well as Barca, maybe if Rafa asked again Quaresma would actually be prepared to make the changes Rafa asked of him in the first place.

If he did take that attitude, a willing to really work for it because this would absolutely be his last chance at a top club, then maybe we could get an absolute bargain, because at his best he can be a devastating player of a type and in a position where we're obviously weak.

I like the Bale shout for that very reason too - we're somewhat weak at LW and Aurelio will need replacing before too long, given that we're clearly playing attacking full backs, and given that Rafa has a real track record of improving players' defending, I think he could be a success here.

I'd say Bale because he s basically a young fit replica of Aurelio. He can play left mid too.

[hesbighesred]

a thinly veiled transfer thread.

In what way is it thinly veiled?

I'm not interested in just any speculation, it's limited purely to 'flops', and every suggestion so far seems to have gotten the idea. I'm just enjoying having a chat about different players for once, if I'm honest, rather than talking about our form or the manager - I'm pretty sick of it to be honest and this is providing a nice Sunday distraction.

So ner.

Hleb and VdV are good shouts - though I don't personally rate VdV at all, I think he's got attitude issues which is why he's flopped. Unlike some he's had a few chances to impress as well - the way he stagnated at Ajax is worrying to me.

i liked the bale and tuncay suggestions.

Quaresma even though he's a player who i hate for his inadequacies despite all of his talent could be one.

There's also another part i want to add to the thread. South Americans who've come to Europe, not played that often or well and gone back home. Nilmar is a prime example, came early to Lyon, didnt do too bad but not good enough i guess, shipped back to Internacional, signed by Villarreal, Brazil starting lineup. A big change!

Palletta could well become something like that for some other team. In fact that's exactly how we got Mash in the end.

HBHR, I think if you're talking exclusively about English players you may have a point about our lack of risk-taking; but it would be unfair to same the same about our attitude towards foreign footballers - Agger, Skrtel, Mascherano, Sissoko, Insua, Lucas, Kuyt, maybe even Benayoun and Aurelio were all relatively little-known or poorly-thought-of right before we swooped in on them, and they have (or at least started to) realised their potential since.

That's a fair point actually - Mash and Aurelio suggest Rafa is prepared to take exactly that kind of punt. Maybe it's just a knowledge/scouting issue? As I understand it Rafa wasn't at all impressed with our scouting and has changed things there as part of his new 'control', maybe that's why he's been wary of British 'gambles'?

Still, the thing that strikes me with British as opposed to foreign is that the depreciation is so much lower on British players - man, Spurs only lost £6million of the insane fee they paid having barely played him for two seasons, and with Redknapp having publicly slated the lad on more than one occasion. Veron, on the other hand, went from £28million to 0 in about 3 seasons.

Carrick is another one I've just thought of - but the West Ham relegation was before Rafa's time I think.

[buzzing]

Has bale been on a winning team yet....will do today though

[LiverpoolForever]

I quite like VDV, but i do take HBHR's view on him.You would also have to ask where would he play?We already have Gerrard, Benayoun and now Aquilani to play as the 'play maker', we've got 3 good players here in that position, i wouldnt think Gerrard, Aqualiani and VDV would all start.

I think Pavelychenko would be more beneficial than VDV, considering the options we have in the 'attacking midfield role'. Without Torres we lack a natural no.9, Pav for me would fill that role decently well given an opportunity, as he has proved with Russia played as the main frontman with a support casting off him.

[Sangria]

please, no more free transfers, remember voronin and degen?

Aurelio is what comes to my mind when I think free transfer.

[hesbighesred]

please, no more free transfers, remember voronin and degen?

To be fair Aurelio was also free, Degen has actually looked OK when he's played this season IMO, and we could have had Kakha Khaladze a couple of seasons ago on a free but the yanks vetoed it - the tools. That signing could have saved us £8.5million from Dossena and the Greek, we probably wouldn't have had to buy either, or at least been able to ease Doss in more, if we'd had Khaladze here.

Has bale been on a winning team yet....will do today though

Aah, I didn't realise he was playing. That could be bad news for that particular shout.

[hesbighesred]

I quite like VDV, but i do take HBHR's view on him.You would also have to ask where would he play?We already have Gerrard, Benayoun and now Aquilani to play as the 'play maker', we've got 3 good players here in that position, i wouldnt think Gerrard, Aqualiani and VDV would all start.

I think Pavelychenko would be more beneficial than VDV, considering the options we have in the 'attacking midfield role'. Without Torres we lack a natural no.9, Pav for me would fill that role decently well given an opportunity, as he has proved with Russia played as the main frontman with a support casting off him.

True say. VdV isn't particularly versatile either - if we're talking Hleb, for example, he could play anywhere in the '3', I don't think I've ever seen VdV play decently out wide.

That versatility is perhaps my issue with Pav, I actually quite like the look of him as a player, but he would basically only get games with Torres out, and maybe the odd one here and there as partner. For bargain sub-strikers I'm still banging the Heskey drum. He wouldn't score, but I don't see why he couldn't do exactly what he does for England for us, and I think he'd be more motivated/useful coming off the bench than Pav perhaps would, I could also see him being a better partner for Torres in the odd games we did go 4-4-2, arguably also a very useful player for Ngog to learn certain things from, and old enough that he hopefully wouldn't hinder Ngog's development too much.

[nutmeg94]

In what way is it thinly veiled?

 

Still, the thing that strikes me with British as opposed to foreign is that the depreciation is so much lower on British players - man, Spurs only lost £6million of the insane fee they paid having barely played him for two seasons, and with Redknapp having publicly slated the lad on more than one occasion. Veron, on the other hand, went from £28million to 0 in about 3 seasons.

You are quite right about this - indeed, I think this theory of underdepreciation can be applied to all youngish English players, not just 'flops'.  What do you think about Cattermole, HBHR?  I don't know enough about him to form an opinion; he's maligned on this forum, but he surely falls into the above category and could be worth a gamble?

[Sangria]

Michael Johnson was regarded as a real talent at one point, but I don't know if there's still a footballer in there. However, if there's any gambling to be done, the area to look at should be the front 3, particularly the flanks. Even when the squad is fully fit, the team is light there. Look for players who want the ball, and who want to do something with the ball. If they haven't yet produced the goods, the price may be relatively low. but what Liverpool oftens lacks is zest in attack. If they're eager to crowd the centre whenever they can, even better. An English El Zhar.

[nocturnalvin]

Any gamble i would like to see would be on players who can turn a game, potential matchwinners who has the talent to be really dangerous. For whatever Quaresma's failures, he has that pace and skill, and if coached on the application, could really turn out to be a good buy, even coming off the bench.

Which is also why i am against the likes of Bentley, which is mostly stagnant. although he would for set pieces, we do not have the players to head them in, do we ?

Or i would opt for a really really good header of the ball, but i cannot think of a "flop" that fits the purpose of this thread.

[Alf]

When Rafa took over he went with what he knew La Liga. Hence the signings of Alonso, Garcia, Josemi, Morientes, Nunez and Pellegrino. Had it not been for James Beattie going to Everton and Harry Redknapp taking over at Southampton then Peter Crouch would be nothing other than a lower league journey man. Glenn Johnson and Jermaine Pennant both went down the route of taking a step backwards to get regular 1st team football having been given that while on loan in the hope of taking a step forward later down the line.

[hesbighesred]

You are quite right about this - indeed, I think this theory of underdepreciation can be applied to all youngish English players, not just 'flops'.  What do you think about Cattermole, HBHR?  I don't know enough about him to form an opinion; he's maligned on this forum, but he surely falls into the above category and could be worth a gamble?

He's really impressed me, I must say. I'd written him off as a liability - useful ball winner but one who I thought would become something of a Joey Barton, just too 'dangerous' to be worth risking. However, he's been impressive for the u21's and Sunderland, and is a much better passer than I had previously credited him for. Still, at the time he was available for cheaper I wouldn't personally have been interested because of the discipline thing and perceived technical limitations. He's proved me wrong though, but sadly would now cost absolutely stupid money, and we could find as good or better abroad for less if we needed (EG Yaya Toure or Diarra could perhaps be obtained in the summer for Cattermole money, and I'd rather have either of those two).

However, if there's any gambling to be done, the area to look at should be the front 3, particularly the flanks...An English El Zhar.

Any gamble i would like to see would be on players who can turn a game, potential matchwinners who has the talent to be really dangerous...
Or i would opt for a really really good header of the ball, but i cannot think of a "flop" that fits the purpose of this thread.

Thats the spirit Noct

Agree with both of you, that would be my preffered 'gamble', if any, though I do like that Bale idea. Someone who could change games and play in the 3, something like an English El Zhar but better.

Oddly, that's exactly why I like the idea of Bentley - I disagree with you Noct, I think he does (indeed is one of very few English players who do) have the talent to really turn matches on their head, and I honestly think he'd do well under Rafa - Hughes got the best of him and Bellamy, Bellamy also got on with Rafa and almost no-one else, I think they have important similarities and a motivated fit Bentley could be a really quality player. Problem there is he can only really play in Kuyt's place, such a shame we didn't get Milner. Not quite a game breaker but definitely talented with a rocket shot, belting set-pieces, comfortable anywhere in the '3', will do a job anywhere when asked and similar application and stamina to someone like Kuyt.

Interesting you see the Quaresma shout as well, it's not one I'd ever think I'd here myself say, but then I never thought he'd be potentially available for peanuts. When I was dead set against him he would have cost £15million at the very least, and that would have been far too big a gamble for me.

Incidentally, Sangria, any suggestions on the English El Zhar? Adam Johnson (who was mentioned earlier) perhaps?

[hesbighesred]

When Rafa took over he went with what he knew La Liga. Hence the signings of Alonso, Garcia, Josemi, Morientes, Nunez and Pellegrino. Had it not been for James Beattie going to Everton and Harry Redknapp taking over at Southampton then Peter Crouch would be nothing other than a lower league journey man. Glenn Johnson and Jermaine Pennant both went down the route of taking a step backwards to get regular 1st team football having been given that while on loan in the hope of taking a step forward later down the line.

Don't agree on Crouch at all, like I say, I think the potential of all three was clear from previous clubs - obviously I'm no football scout but nothing they have subsequently done has surprised me. Crouch has perhaps done slightly better, Pennant slightly worse than I though but the others like Milner, Barry for example are also players I'd rated for ages and ages. Crouch I'm sure would have had another shout at the top because he's pretty much scored for fun wherever he's been - look at Fuller, got his prem move relatively late on again because wherever he's gone, pretty much, he's scored.

[Sangria]

Just to bang the drum once again, Danny Murphy. Just park him in the area where he's supposed to be, then let him do the pivot thing.

[buzzing]

Has bale been on a winning team yet....will do today though

The curse of Bale i tells ya

[wz4jc3]

There are lots of bargains out there; it's just difficult to identify them.  Taking a risk is what it's all about.  I'd like to see us taking a risk on some of our youngsters.

[Paul JH]

Can't believe someone like Niko Kranjčar went to Spurs for £2.5m ... always thought he'd suit us down to the ground as a squad player.

[Soap]

Plenty at Madrid now they've started buying big names, Robben would be my pick.
Still think we need a Defensive Midfielder, Jenas anybody?

[Soap]

Can't believe someone like Niko Kranjčar went to Spurs for £2.5m ... always thought he'd suit us down to the ground as a squad player.

Couldn't agree more, Palacios would of been a good buy for 12m aswell.

[Sangria]

Incidentally, Sangria, any suggestions on the English El Zhar? Adam Johnson (who was mentioned earlier) perhaps?

He sounds like someone who might fit the criteria and be available. The thing is, people need to stop asking too much of these kinds of purchases. If they have everything and are proven, Liverpool aren't likely to be able to afford them, or they'll be set at their clubs already and are unavailable. So the manager needs to set out the most important, must have, criteria, and go for someone who has those, and as much of anything else as possible. It's easy to say someone is not good enough for Liverpool, but if you combine that with other factors, you'll end up ruling everyone out.

[Soap]

Kevin Davies would be a good squad player or Heskey as previously mentioned, i really want a striker who can put himself about abit (we have nothing like that atm.)

[rafathegaffa83]

Don't understand why people want Bale. As demonstrated today against Everton he is decent going forward, but is a massive defensive liability. Insua is a far better player than him. It is unfortunate that both Aurelio and Dossena have been injured for long stretches this season, which have forced Insua to be thrown into the deep end without much room to rest.

Can't believe someone like Niko Kranjčar went to Spurs for £2.5m ... always thought he'd suit us down to the ground as a squad player.

He only had twelve months left on his contract and 'arry probably had the inside track on how desperate their financial situation was.

[rafathegaffa83]

Plenty at Madrid now they've started buying big names, Robben would be my pick.

Robben got sold to Bayern Munich months ago for £22m+

[hesbighesred]

Can't believe someone like Niko Kranjčar went to Spurs for £2.5m ... always thought he'd suit us down to the ground as a squad player.

That's a damn good shout as well, completely agree. Was somewhat pissed when he went to Spurs. Still, a potential bonus is that good ol' 'arry will utterly shaft him as soon as Modric gets back - this time next year he'll probably be eager and available for a cheap move again.

Just to bang the drum once again, Danny Murphy. Just park him in the area where he's supposed to be, then let him do the pivot thing.

I like him but for me that ship has sailed. Maybe as a Gary Mac style signing, if he were prepared to cover for Lucas/Mash etc, as a kind of stop gap until players like Spearing/Plessis or perhaps more likely Palsson can put real pressure on those positions.

There are lots of bargains out there; it's just difficult to identify them.  Taking a risk is what it's all about.  I'd like to see us taking a risk on some of our youngsters.

Fair point - that's always a consideration. EG, I'm not sure about a striker simply because Ngog has stepped up so well, and Nemeth deserves a shout for Voro as cover for Gerrard. Still, there are positions where there's nothing really promising coming through soon. In behind Gerrard we don't need - there's Nemeth and then Pacheco, and I think they *could* be good enough to cover it permanently, certainly good enough for the kind of squad roles, but as Sangria said the 'El Zhar' type position - someone to play on either or both flanks, especially the left, there's nothing looking on the verges there (maybe Bruna/Weijl/Kakaniclic in time but they're all some way off yet, there's none screaming out like, say, Kelly or Ngog or Nemeth or Pacheco or Mavinga - there's an argument against Bale), where you feel someone like Hleb or perhaps Quaresma or even Krancjar as suggested above could be a huge boost for the first team, never mind just squad cover.

[Soap]

Don't understand why people want Bale. As demonstrated today against Everton he is decent going forward, but is a massive defensive liability. Insua is a far better player than him. It is unfortunate that both Aurelio and Dossena have been injured for long stretches this season, which have forced Insua to be thrown into the deep end without much room to rest.

He only had twelve months left on his contract and 'arry probably had the inside track on how desperate their financial situation was.

Miguel would be a shout from Valencia to shore up our RB berth, wouldn't cost too much tbf.

[John C]

Adam Johnson - Boro.

[Paul JH]

He only had twelve months left on his contract and 'arry probably had the inside track on how desperate their financial situation was.

Probably true this, still daylight robbery from Redknapp though. Good player.