Topic: Northern Ireland troubles..

[caspertheghost]

Hopefully they lock that bitch up and throw away the key for good.  We've got all this money and time being wasted on an investigation on the soldiers involved in the Bloody Sunday shootings, why should anybody else be treated differently?

If the police have got new evidence that could convict murderers no matter what side they are from then they should use it and convict them.

wasted? Your soldiers behaved like terrorists on that day when they killed 14 people!

[karl1987]

Of course it is being wasted, highly unlikely any covictions will even come out of it.   

[♠Dirty Harry♠]

Hopefully they lock that bitch up and throw away the key for good.  We've got all this money and time being wasted on an investigation on the soldiers involved in the Bloody Sunday shootings, why should anybody else be treated differently?

If the police have got new evidence that could convict murderers no matter what side they are from then they should use it and convict them.

Time & money wasted on investigating soldiers killing 'their own' civilians, an inquiry that found the civilians innocent on all accounts and now said civilian's families are seeking the final episode of justice, fucking time wasters hi. You don't half chat bollocks on here Karl when it comes to this stuff, your attitude is symptomatic of Northern Ireland's issues, "they got, some so should we."

[Shannon]

Of course it is being wasted, highly unlikely any covictions will even come out of it.

Disgusting comment, so the animals that gunned down 14 innocent civilians on the streets of Derry will be able to live the rest of their lives on a cushy Army pension while the victims families never receive closure or justice for it.

Wonder if you have the same opinion of the Hillsborough campaign, when it comes out that the Liverpool Supporters were not at fault will you be content odf do you think it should be pushed that heads should roll as a result.

[karl1987]

Disgusting comment, so the animals that gunned down 14 innocent civilians on the streets of Derry will be able to live the rest of their lives on a cushy Army pensions.

While convicted IRA murderers sit it parliment earning alot more.  There are thousands of families who will never get justice.  If they are gonna open an investigation into this then they should do the same for everyone else.

[caspertheghost]

Of course it is being wasted, highly unlikely any covictions will even come out of it.

Dreadful remark! 

YOUR soldiers, supposed upholders of the law MURDERED 14 civilians. They committed an utterly heinous crime and must therefore answer for their actions.

[♠Dirty Harry♠]

While convicted IRA murderers sit it parliment earning alot more.  There are thousands of families who will never get justice.  If they are gonna open an investigation into this then they should do the same for everyone else.

. You don't half chat bollocks on here Karl when it comes to this stuff, your attitude is symptomatic of Northern Ireland's issues, "they got, some so should we."

So that's your reasoning, let them off because others never received justice, horrible stuff.

And who are these convicted murderers in parliament we speak of Karl?

[caspertheghost]

While convicted IRA murderers sit it parliment earning alot more.  There are thousands of families who will never get justice.  If they are gonna open an investigation into this then they should do the same for everyone else.

There are many investigations on-going being carried out by the PSNI's HET team!

[Shannon]

While convicted IRA murderers sit it parliment earning alot more.  There are thousands of families who will never get justice.  If they are gonna open an investigation into this then they should do the same for everyone else.

The governments own forces killed innocent civilians, don't you think it's ironic that the people sent to 'protect' them were the one who murdered them? The forces of the Crown are a completely different kettle of fish to a terrorist group and you know it- but I agree all investigations should be opened, however for you to call the investigation of Bloody Sunday a waste of money actually makes my bloody boil, those families lived under an umbrella of lies for almost 40 years, the least they deserve is closure.

Also, Adam nor McGuinness have ever been convicted of Murder so get your facts right.

[karl1987]

Time & money wasted on investigating soldiers killing 'their own' civilians, an inquiry that found the civilians innocent on all accounts and now said civilian's families are seeking the final episode of justice, fucking time wasters hi. You don't half chat bollocks on here Karl when it comes to this stuff, your attitude is symptomatic of Northern Ireland's issues, "they got, some so should we."

This coming from a guy who who said earlier that a tape recording that has a convicted IRA women admitting to helping carry out the murder an innocent woman (Jean mMcconville)shouldnt be investigated yet because it would be "silly"

And you have the cheek to say I talk bollocks.  Would you be happy for these soldiers to have an interview admitting to what they have done and only released after their deaths while never being convicted???  Didnt think so, its amazing how your opionon has changed when the shoe is on the other foot.

[♠Dirty Harry♠]

This coming from a guy who who said earlier that a tape recording that has a convicted IRA women admitting to helping carry out the murder an innocent woman (Jean mMcconville)shouldnt be investigated yet because it would be "silly"

And you have the cheek to say I talk bollocks.  Would you be happy for these soldiers to have an interview admitting to what they have done and only released after their deaths while never being convicted???  Didnt think so, its amazing how your opionon has changed when the shoe is on the other foot.

Bloody Sunday was a one off event, the soldiers never volunteered the information, their conviction isn't going to hinder any other information about other wrongdoings coming out in the future.

In this case, potentially convicting one fucking arsehole may bring closure to one family, but unnecessarily leaves hundreds of others in the dark. Plus she'll probably get away with it under the GFA so it's shooting both feet.

Also you never answered my question, who are these 'convicted murderers'?

[karl1987]

Bloody Sunday was a one off event, the soldiers never volunteered the information, their conviction isn't going to hinder any other information about other wrongdoings coming out in the future.

In this case, potentially convicting one fucking arsehole may bring closure to one family, but unnecessarily leaves hundreds of others in the dark. Plus she'll probably get away with it under the GFA so it's shooting both feet.

Also you never answered my question, who are these 'convicted murderers'?

Who are these convicted murderers?!?! You know exactly who they are...  Im not gonna waste my time typing their names.

[♠Dirty Harry♠]

Who are these convicted murderers?!?! You know exactly who they are...  Im not gonna waste my type typing their names.

No I don't, honestly I don't, indulge me.

[Shannon]

Who are these convicted murderers?!?! You know exactly who they are...  Im not gonna waste my type typing their names.

I genuinely don't, come on Karl name them for us? Remember you could run the risk of slander and defamation of character if you are wrong.

Another thing Karl, I'd like you to comment on my above post drawling parallels between Hillsborough and Bloody Sunday, you conveniently left that out of the reply.

[karl1987]

however for you to call the investigation of Bloody Sunday a waste of money actually makes my bloody boil, those families lived under an umbrella of lies for almost 40 years, the least they deserve is closure.

Also, Adam nor McGuinness have ever been convicted of Murder so get your facts right.

But all they ever said they wanted was for the British govermet to admit to it. Over Ł200 million was spent on the Saville report and they got what they always said they wanted from the British Goverment, a confession and apology.

Now they want more money spent on getting convictions which will takea years to get started and then god knows how many years to end , by which time those invovled might not even be with us anymore.  Most are already in their mid to late 60's.  Its already been stated that convicitons are highly unlikely anyway. Thousands of families will never get any justice, and  I just don't think its fair how some cases seem to be getting preferential treatment over others. 

[karl1987]

I genuinely don't, come on Karl name them for us? Remember you could run the risk of slander and defamation of character if you are wrong.

Il start you off, Gerry Kelly.....  Im not gonna waste my time typing all their names when you know fair well who they are or at least you should do when you most likely vote for them.

[Shannon]

But all they ever said they wanted was for the British govermet to admit to it. Over Ł200 million was spent on the Saville report and they got what they always said they wanted from the British Goverment, a confession and apology.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jul/05/bloody-sunday-murder-inquiry?newsfeed=true

Some of the families of the Bloody Sunday dead have called for members of the Parachute Regiment involved in the 1972 massacre – one of the biggest atrocities of the Troubles – to be arrested and face prosecutions over the shootings.

[RojoLeón]

Karl doing his sectarian 'whataboutery' schtick again? Who would have thought

And you're right Dirty Harry: it is exactly this small minded bigotry that is holding Northern Ireland back.

[caspertheghost]

But all they ever said they wanted was for the British govermet to admit to it. Over Ł200 million was spent on the Saville report and they got what they always said they wanted from the British Goverment, a confession and apology.

Now they want more money spent on getting convictions which will takea years to get started and then god knows how many years to end , by which time those invovled might not even be with us anymore.  Most are already in their mid to late 60's.  Its already been stated that convicitons are highly unlikely anyway. Thousands of families will never get any justice, and  I just don't think its fair how some cases seem to be getting preferential treatment over others.

So bloody what if they're in their mid to late 60s - what the hell is the issue about how old someone is? There isn't one! Conviction highly unlikely? How do you know?
I'm of one of those "families" you talk of, nobody's been convicted of shooting dead an uncle of mine in 1972 but if the HET (http://www.psni.police.uk/historical-enquiries-team/het-introduction.htm) uncover anything then a prosecution WILL be sought irrespective of how old the c*nt who pulled the trigger on my uncle is now.

[weebroalan]

It's funny how blinded republicans are - oh let's make sure we lock these murdering British soldiers up.

But then change their tune when it comes to locking up Adams and McGuinness or any other republican who was fighting for such a noble and just cause.

[♠Dirty Harry♠]

Il start you off, Gerry Kelly.....  Im not gonna waste my time typing all their names when you know fair well who they are or at least you should do when you most likely vote for them.

I don't vote full stop, the lot of them sicken me and I don't know, I don't believe GK was ever convicted of murder.

That inquiry was worth every penny to clear innocent names, if they feel the need to prosecute they have every right, I know I would, wouldn't you?

[♠Dirty Harry♠]

It's funny how blinded republicans are - oh let's make sure we lock these murdering British soldiers up.

But then change their tune when it comes to locking up Adams and McGuinness or any other republican who was fighting for such a noble and just cause.

Maybe it wasn't aimed at me, but no one here mentioned Adams or McGuinness and I'm not a republican.

Plus you can't be seriously using one bunch of asshole terrorists' activities as an excuse to not convict state soldiers?

I don't know about you but I'm all for locking away murderers

[RojoLeón]

When the state breaks the laws it upholds, it leads to a degeneration and deepening depravity of the system it represents. How can you ask someone to behave peacfully and lawfully when you break the law yourself so openly.

And this (the Paras murdering their own citizens at a civil rights march) is just one event. There was widespread collusion between Special branch, RUC and military intelligence and terrorists, leading to many innocent people being murdered. There was widespread infiltration of terrorists by the security forces, to the extent that innocent people were murdered to protect intelligence assets.

It was a very dirty war. On every side there was law breaking, murder and corruption (the racketeering, with tacit police approval in certain communities caused much hardship and damage).

The side for governance, law and order were just as murderous, duplicitous and corrupt as the people they were fighting/resisting. How can anyone be surprised when things got a lot more bloody and violent when the state was giving everyone a big push from behind?

[caspertheghost]

When the state breaks the laws it upholds, it leads to a degeneration and deepening depravity of the system it represents. How can you ask someone to behave peacfully and lawfully when you break the law yourself so openly.

And this (the Paras murdering their own citizens at a civil rights march) is just one event. There was widespread collusion between Special branch, RUC and military intelligence and terrorists, leading to many innocent people being murdered. There was widespread infiltration of terrorists by the security forces, to the extent that innocent people were murdered to protect intelligence assets.

It was a very dirty war. On every side there was law breaking, murder and corruption (the racketeering, with tacit police approval in certain communities caused much hardship and damage).

The side for governance, law and order were just as murderous, duplicitous and corrupt as the people they were fighting/resisting. How can anyone be surprised when things got a lot more bloody and violent when the state was giving everyone a big push from behind?

have to agree 100% with all of that - there were MANY internal feuds on both sides, tit-for-tat reprisals etc which the RUC sat back and let happen but there was always the feeling that the state knew more than they were letting on.

[♠Dirty Harry♠]

When the state breaks the laws it upholds, it leads to a degeneration and deepening depravity of the system it represents. How can you ask someone to behave peacfully and lawfully when you break the law yourself so openly.

And this (the Paras murdering their own citizens at a civil rights march) is just one event. There was widespread collusion between Special branch, RUC and military intelligence and terrorists, leading to many innocent people being murdered. There was widespread infiltration of terrorists by the security forces, to the extent that innocent people were murdered to protect intelligence assets.

It was a very dirty war. On every side there was law breaking, murder and corruption (the racketeering, with tacit police approval in certain communities caused much hardship and damage).

The side for governance, law and order were just as murderous, duplicitous and corrupt as the people they were fighting/resisting. How can anyone be surprised when things got a lot more bloody and violent when the state was giving everyone a big push from behind?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18491093

[BIGdavalad]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18491093

Shoot to kill is the stupidest name for something in the known world.

What else do you shoot at someone for?

[bottleandahalf]

It's funny how blinded republicans are - oh let's make sure we lock these murdering British soldiers up.

But then change their tune when it comes to locking up Adams and McGuinness or any other republican who was fighting for such a noble and just cause.

Both of them were locked up though!

[bottleandahalf]

Shoot to kill is the stupidest name for something in the known world.

What else do you shoot at someone for?

Unarmed civilians? WISE UP!

[BIGdavalad]

Unarmed civilians? WISE UP!

Unarmed civilians can't shoot at anyone...

You didn't really understand my post, did you?

[bottleandahalf]

Unarmed civilians can't shoot at anyone...

You didn't really understand my post, did you?

But they were given the green light to shoot to kill unarmed civilians.

They are supposed to disable enemy combatants. Isn't it a war crime to shoot yo kill?

[BIGdavalad]

But they were given the green light to shoot to kill unarmed civilians.

They are supposed to disable enemy combatants. Isn't it a war crime to shoot yo kill?

No, in fact it's a war crime to shoot without intending to kill - can't remember the exact wording but basically 'causing unnecessary pain'. Why else would you shoot at someone unless you wanted to kill them?

But aside from that, you still don't actually understand my post do you?

[bottleandahalf]

No, in fact it's a war crime to shoot without intending to kill - can't remember the exact wording but basically 'causing unnecessary pain'. Why else would you shoot at someone unless you wanted to kill them?

But aside from that, you still don't actually understand my post do you?

Pfft. I've never heard of that before in me life.

I do get where yer going with yer initial post aye. But guns used to be shoot into the air to disperse crowds during riots, confrontations etc.

[BIGdavalad]

Pfft. I've never heard of that before in me life.

Oh well

I do get where yer going with yer initial post aye. But guns used to be shoot into the air to disperse crowds during riots, confrontations etc.

Only if you want the round to come down and kill some kiddie three miles away.

[bottleandahalf]

Oh well

Only if you want the round to come down and kill some kiddie three miles away.

http://www.britisharmykillings.org.uk/page/113/The-Issuess

[BIGdavalad]

http://www.britisharmykillings.org.uk/page/113/The-Issuess

Well that's pretty irrelevant to the discussion of whether it's a good idea to fire a round into the air.

[bottleandahalf]

Well that's pretty irrelevant to the discussion of whether it's a good idea to fire a round into the air.

It was about the war crimes committed by the soldiers.

It's better to fire a weapon in the air as opposed to someone's head though. A falling bullet is hardly likely to kill when falling from the air either!

[RedRabbit]

[Completelyofftopic]It would if the mass and diameter were large enough. A .30 caliber bullet would probably do it. Carry on.[/Completelyofftopic]

[marko35s]

But they were given the green light to shoot to kill unarmed civilians.

They are supposed to disable enemy combatants. Isn't it a war crime to shoot yo kill?

Disable?
This isnt like the movies, you dont get to take your time, pick a spot and bring the enemy down with a lightly grazed calf that requires nothing more than a band aid.
In just about any place you can think of it is illegal to fire a warning shot and you only fire a weapon with the intent to kill.

[bottleandahalf]

[Completelyofftopic]It would if the mass and diameter were large enough. A .30 caliber bullet would probably do it. Carry on.[/Completelyofftopic]

Probably?!

[marko35s]

It was about the war crimes committed by the soldiers.

It's better to fire a weapon in the air as opposed to someone's head though. A falling bullet is hardly likely to kill when falling from the air either!

Very wrong.
I know its the mail but still -
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1240433/Boy-killed-bullet-fired-2-miles-away.html