Topic: Alcohol Issues

[24/7]

I love dandelion & burdock.

[AndyInVA]

I'm aiming to have about 4, but will be drinking them over a period of time

I'm not going there to get wrecked

I really want to watch the game, meet some rawk people and make it out to the band at night

Right now I feel comfortable I can manage

I'm going to be major exhausted as I'm leaving at 3am to get up there

I drank three beers on saturday over the course of several hours. Enjoyed every single one.

when i was driving back, i did into a bit of a row with the wife and I had the real urge to get some beers on the way home and drink them all when i got home

which I am pleased I didnt do it, but the urge was definetly there

am not planning on drinking at any time in the future

[corkboy]

Good man, glad it didn't go wrong.

[Sr Harvest Fiields]

That was a close call mate, glad it went well. Why did you argue if you dont mind me asking? Was it because you had a drink, or were you more argumentative as you had had a couple? Did you get a ' buzz ' after a couple and how was that etc etc etc

[AndyInVA]

That was a close call mate, glad it went well. Why did you argue if you dont mind me asking? Was it because you had a drink, or were you more argumentative as you had had a couple? Did you get a ' buzz ' after a couple and how was that etc etc etc

arguement was non booze related and was on the way home when I was totally sober

I didnt have enough to get a buzz but it 'take the edge off' so to speak. plus it tasted so damn nice, but it was nice not having to fight the fight so to speak

that i knew if i wanted one, I could have one, and not feel so worried about either choosing a soft drink when I want a drink or feeling like I need to avoid the situation altogether

I feel like I know I am an alkie and it all could go wrong, Im not cured, or ever will be cured, but its nice to know that I can have one or two and walk away

for now ...

[Red Genius]

arguement was non booze related and was on the way home when I was totally sober

I didnt have enough to get a buzz but it 'take the edge off' so to speak. plus it tasted so damn nice, but it was nice not having to fight the fight so to speak

that i knew if i wanted one, I could have one, and not feel so worried about either choosing a soft drink when I want a drink or feeling like I need to avoid the situation altogether

I feel like I know I am an alkie and it all could go wrong, Im not cured, or ever will be cured, but its nice to know that I can have one or two and walk away

for now ...

Well done mate for walking away - i've been really interested in finding out the circumstances around being an addict and if there is any way back after that. As i remember a time when i could drink and it wasn't a problem, and would naturally love to be back at that place.

I had a big chat about this with my doctor, and her advice was that alcohol is addictive to everybody. It creates a chemical imbalance in your brain - some are susceptible as their chemical imbalance affects their decision making process. Constant alcoholism actually changes your brain and it's thought process.

I guess what she was saying is that - yes once an alcoholic, you can stop - rehabilitate, return to alcohol - however the vulnerability will always exist in your personality (which is infact a chemical response - nothing you can do about that)

I'd stay away from it mate, if  you've had bad experiences in the past.

[AndyInVA]

I guess what she was saying is that - yes once an alcoholic, you can stop - rehabilitate, return to alcohol - however the vulnerability will always exist in your personality (which is infact a chemical response - nothing you can do about that)

totally agree with that, thats exactly how I feel

if it werent for the fact that I had zero alcohol intake for 3 1/2 years even at times when it was really hard, that I feel I have half a chance of keeping control of it

[Red Genius]

Andy

I hope you got what you were looking for from this experiment.

My brother gave me a really simple bit of advice when i was younger and experimenting with drugs - it's supposed to be fun... the moment it stops being fun, just stop.

Some people are able to intoxicate themselves and enjoy it - others like you and i, didn't know when to stop, and it caused problems in our lives.

Respect that, accept it and try and keep off it... that's the safest way.

However - i do still believe, like pain - a lot of it is in the mind, and the power of controlling the mind. But in this thread - and for now, that really is a redundant subject.

[Sr Harvest Fiields]

How you doing lately mate? Some good advice about here lately

What crossed my mind with Andy is once you know/think you can have one or two and walk away, and he did, is it ' under control ' as such. I know it will never be beaten till the day u fall off this dump and imo the booze would have won as you spent a lifetime running from it etc. Thats a bit heavy for a monday so ill leave it there. Is that drink Andy had, the start of a slope back to it all i guess im asking. I believe addictions can be brought under some semblance of control for some people.

[Red Genius]

From what I've read Carl - It's not some gravitas of pull, when you've been off it for a while.

But what can happen is that you become complacent - 1 or 2 drinks, you think you're in control, then you begin drinking perhaps once a weekend, then a couple times a week - then you're back there, a place where you're drinking regularly.

It's crept up slowly on you, and you've allowed it back into your life.

[AndyInVA]

From what I've read Carl - It's not some gravitas of pull, when you've been off it for a while.

But what can happen is that you become complacent - 1 or 2 drinks, you think you're in control, then you begin drinking perhaps once a weekend, then a couple times a week - then you're back there, a place where you're drinking regularly.

It's crept up slowly on you, and you've allowed it back into your life.

pretty much agree with that. I feel like I have set myself back to day 1. back then I drank and drank and i didnt know where it will lead

this time, Im starting off knowing full well that Im an addict and if it gets away from me I will not be able to control it. But for now, Im happy knwoing Im addict, Im not going to drink at home on my home, im not going to go somewhee with the intention of getting smashed but I am going to allow myself a 'few' on the rare occassions Im at a social function where I think I would enjoy it more if I had a coupel of drinks. where I live and at mys tage of life, those kind fo functions are only once every two months or so, so I dont see that as the start of the slippery slope either

[Red Genius]

so I dont see that as the start of the slippery slope either

With all respect mate, that is the slippery slope - you're already justifying a good bevvie to yourself. That's it's only once in a blue moon.

Just be careful mate.

[And Could He Play]

how the fuck did you stop after 3, 2 is my point, once i have the third beer, you might as well call in the army.

[Bennekov]

you might as well call in the army.

I'm like that after 6 beers. If the missus catches me "on the wrong foot" then I turn in to a c*nt sometimes... After she told me to get my shit together or fuck off I really think about what I'm doing when we're out together.

[And Could He Play]

i get pissed very easy lately. like 4 pints im feeling it.

i can sit in the house and have 10 cans no problem, but 4/5 pints and im pissed if im in a pub.

i can stay out like, all night, i might slur my words and shit, but i dont fall over and stuff, jsut weird that i have got older i cant hack the ale as much.

[Billy The Kid.]

So, I've had a pretty eventful last couple of weeks. I went to a music festival in Connecticut with my room mates brother and sister. Fucking mental it was. A total hippy fest. People smashed off their tits on acid left right and center. I loved it. I didn't take anything though. I stuck to my bottled water. There were birds walking around topless everywhere. It was 36 degrees so wearing clothes was kept to a minimum. I wont go into too much details, but needless to say, my love seeds were well and truly spread around the camp site that night. Any lass wanting some, got some. I didn't turn anyone away

Then last week I went to Boston for the Roma game. That was a good laugh too. Again, I stuck to my bottled water. I was happy out. The urge to drink was there. It always is really, but I never really contemplated having one. Then today I spoke with a recruitment manager who contacted me about a job that I applied for a few weeks back. He wants to meet me in person. He said he'd phone me back to confirm dates and times. This would be a huge break for me if I landed it. As soon as I put the phone down I was buzzing. Then BOOM. The urge to drink hit and it hit big time

That's the fucking weirdness of addiction. Over the passed 2 weeks I was coping fine. Even though I was in social situations where drinking would have normally been the thing for me, I managed to stay sober without much difficulty. Then the second some good news comes along the urge to drink kicks in ten fold. Like some sort of perverse mental disorder pushing me to go and fuck everything up. Its just before 5 in the evening here now. The sun is out and I really really want to fucking drink. I'm not even going to go outside my door now. There's a frozen pizza in the freezer and that will have to do for my tea. Fuck going to the shops. I'm afraid I'll end up buying cans or walk into a bar. This is probably the most fragile I've been mentally in a long time, in terms of staying intent on remaining sober. Its fucking mad

[Sr Harvest Fiields]

whats your plans mate. Im not keen on asking stuff as i dont wanna come across as a twat. Why do u ' want ' to drink. the buzz,taste,peer pressure. Excuse my questions as this is all new to me so im just trying to get it from your point of view.

[Billy The Kid.]

I want to drink because the addict in me is acting up like a c*nt. That's the only way I can describe it

I'm prone to urges from time to time, only this time its fucking really bad

[Sr Harvest Fiields]

Is it the addict? Or is it the person inside trying to beat the addict and trying to drink on a ' normal ' level. Do u not think that this addiction can be controlled?

[Billy The Kid.]

Is it the addict? Or is it the person inside trying to beat the addict and trying to drink on a ' normal ' level. Do u not think that this addiction can be controlled?

Mate, I've never drank on a normal level in my life. I know I'm incapable of doing it. That's why I don't drink period.

And no, I don't think this addiction can be controlled. I have yet to hear of, or meet a single person who has gone from drinking uncontrollably to drinking in a controlled manner. 

[corkboy]

And no, I don't think this addiction can be controlled. I have yet to hear of, or meet a single person who has gone from drinking uncontrollably to drinking in a controlled manner. 

I've learned from this thread that everyone's drinking is different.

[Sr Harvest Fiields]

Indeed. Do you think it can never be controlled at all Billy. In any circumstance?

[Billy The Kid.]

I've learned from this thread that everyone's drinking is different.

Of course everyone is different. Some drink excessively every day, others stay off it for prolonged periods and then binge. I agree it very much depends on the person. One thing you'll learn though, is that despite the differences in drinking habits, the same general rule applies to all alcoholics. Its not the last drink that does the damage. Its the first drink. Its the first drink that fucks you up because control goes out the window after that point. Which is probably why having spent time in AA rooms in 6 different countries, and having met and engaged with countless people who have battled alcohol at previous points in their lives, I have still yet to meet a single person who has managed to revert from uncontrollable drinking to controlled drinking. Not a single one.

I see Andy is trying a little experiment at the moment. Granted, he managed to keep it to 3 beers in Baltimore. But by his own admission he had the urge for more. He resisted it this time. Probably because he doesn't want to go hurtling off the wagon. Its been 3 and a half years for him so he's obviously going to be cautious going back to it again. But give it time. If he keeps this up, its only going to be a matter of time before he ends up getting smashed. This thing doesn't go away or heal with time. I just hope Andy doesn't end up with a harsh reminder of that down the line. Because my bottom dollar is on this experiment absolutely NOT working in the long run.

Indeed. Do you think it can never be controlled at all Billy. In any circumstance?

No mate. It can't. You might manage a period of control for a while. But it will only be temporary. You'll never beat it in the long run.

If you allow alcohol back into your life, as sure as day turns into night, it will find a way of dragging right back down to your knees

Maybe not straight away, but eventually it will.

[Sr Harvest Fiields]

I do like your take on it all Billy. Most refreshing just to pull it up into context mate.

What if Andy does control it? Would you think he has or would you be looking to his demise as he has started on that slippery road back into alcoholism.Surely somewhere there is someone who beats the odds?

[Billy The Kid.]

I do like your take on it all Billy. Most refreshing just to pull it up into context mate.

What if Andy does control it? Would you think he has or would you be looking to his demise as he has started on that slippery road back into alcoholism.Surely somewhere there is someone who beats the odds?

Andy wont beat it mate. Not in the long run.

And if someone somewhere has beaten the odds, then I've certainly never heard of them nor met them. Nor have I ever met anyone who has heard of them or met them. You can't "cure" alcoholism or control it in the long term. Its a non goer

[Sr Harvest Fiields]

I respect your opinion mate, im sure we all do. BUT, its an addiction. Can an addiction be managed. Any addiction? I know i cant control mine but whats to say someone somewhere is able to sort it. Are any addictions beyond help?

[Tepid water]

I respect your opinion mate, im sure we all do. BUT, its an addiction. Can an addiction be managed. Any addiction? I know i cant control mine but whats to say someone somewhere is able to sort it. Are any addictions beyond help?

Interesting story about the bloke who wrote the "rum diary" screen play.

He handy drunk for years (20+) but was trying to write like hunter S Thompson (who wasn't exactly known for his sobriety) so went back on the pop.

He went back to drinking when he did the screen play and then stopped again afterwards... Maybe it was possible as he had a clear line in the sand as to whn he had to stop?

[Sammy5IsAlive]

Part of me thinks that it is in this thread but with over 200 pages I'm not going searching for it.

There was a study done into the chemistry of alcoholism. What they found was that for a certain group of people something switched and the chemical reactions went from the ones seen in 'normal' people drinking to the chemical reactions and products seen in opiate use. The particularly relevant point given the last few pages was that once this switch occured it was irreversible. So somebody who had been sober for a long time but then started drinking again wasn't drinking 'normally' but in fact was still getting a similar kind of buzz as a heroin user would get if they went back on the gear.

As above, it may well not be in this thread and I can't think how I'd track the article back down if it isn't on here, but it is food for thought for anyone considering the pros and cons of a return to 'social' drinking.

[Billy The Kid.]

Can an addiction be managed. Any addiction?

Yes of course it can be managed. It can be managed by not indulging in it

Managing it and controlling it are 2 separate paradigms. In my opinion there is a big difference between the two.

The best analogy I can give to describe it is this: Its like standing on the outside of a boxing ring. You're standing there cool, calm and collect. Inside the ring is this big fucker who's goading you to get in there with him. He's taunting you, mocking you, and doing every thing he can to drag you down to his shitty level. You know that the best thing to do is to just walk away. You know that by walking away and not stooping that low makes you the real winner. But the c*nt wont stop. He's in there dancing around, calling you a coward, a loser, a boring little dry bollox. He's got that "I fucked your bird last night" grin on his face.

It winds you up to the point that you want to get in there and start thumping his fucking head off because you know you'll enjoy it. Every time you leather him you know you'll get a buzz that just gets better and better. You know you can take all your frustration out on him and ram his words back down his throat. So you snap. The thought of going in there and throttling him eats you up. So you get in there and you start battering him all over the shop. Like Mike Tyson in fit of steroid rage, you kick him all over the ring. It feels great. He's squirming like a little bitch. You feel all the empowerment.

But the c*nt wont stay down. Then you realize he wasn't actually squirming at all. He was just fucking with you. Slowly but surely you run out of steam. Now you can't land those blows anymore. Its drained out of you. Then you realize he's just completely fucked you over because he managed to taunt you into stooping to his level. Now you're the one on your knees, fucked, wasted, with nothing left. Hes standing over you laughing, waiting to land his one killer blow. Then you think "why did I get in here with this absolute c*nt? I could have just walked away and won. Now I've let this shit house win again. Fucker just tricked me. Not only that, but now that I think of it, hes done this to me a thousand times. Why the fuck didn't I clock what was going on when I was still outside the ring"

Once that happens enough times, you'll eventually stop thinking all that and just say "you know what? Go on you big c*nt. Just put me out of my misery and fucking kill me". And that's the fear. I've been in the ring with that c*nt so many times now that I fear if I go for it again, I'll reach that point where I'll just want him to kill me. Andy's back in the ring now. If I were him I'd get the fuck back out sharpish. Because in the long run, the other c*nt will eventually win. That's how you manage it. Just stay the fuck out of there. Get in there and he'll con you into thinking you're in control of him. But you're not. He'll just take everything you throw at him, and when you run out of steam, your ass is his. The only way to manage it is to walk away. The control is all his, no matter how hard you try to convince yourself otherwise. That's how I see my addiction. My addiction is that c*nt and I know better now than to fuck with him anymore

[And Could He Play]

billys the dogs bollocks

[Bennekov]

This is a fantastic post, Billy!!

[Sr Harvest Fiields]

Great post Billy. ' but '  im still hopeful that Andy can do it. There has to be someone who beats the odds one day and whats not to say it could be Andy

I like to think Andy is taking tentative steps to see if he can function on a ' normal ' level like most pissheads at the weekend. Im no authority on this addiction, im just an addict but i have hope someone can find a way out of dependence on alcohol.

[Billy The Kid.]

Carl, why do you hope someone somewhere beats it? Why do you hope they find a way out if it? Where is your fixation with someone "beating the odds" coming from? Do you think if you hear one success story that it might offer hope to the rest of us that maybe one day we could also revert to drinking normally? Its a fantasy notion mate. The reality is, there is no cure for this. All you can do is manage it by abstaining

I'm sure you've heard people say that they are "recovering" alcoholics. Most refer to themselves as "recovering" or "in recovery", because its an ongoing daily thing. You will never be "recovered". That might all sound a bit defeatist, but it actually isn't. Being able to admit to your addiction is actually quiet liberating. Its your ticket to living a fulfilling life. Anyone in recovery who says that life is funless without drink must have a short memory as to how bad their life was with drink in it. 

[Sr Harvest Fiields]

I hope mate because i want to see someone without a burdening addiction. I want to see a former addict lead a normal life. I agree with what you say Billy but you, i and many in here have seen what this addiction does to us. Im just hoping maybe someone can deal with it.

Yes i want to revert to drinking normally, will that happen? I doubt it. Is that what im hoping to do if Andy does it? No. Im just tired of what it has done to many ppl iknow and i just hanker for someone to beat the odds. May be futile but hope is all ive got left to be honest.

[Tepid water]

I hope mate because i want to see someone without a burdening addiction. I want to see a former addict lead a normal life. I agree with what you say Billy but you, i and many in here have seen what this addiction does to us. Im just hoping maybe someone can deal with it.

Yes i want to revert to drinking normally, will that happen? I doubt it. Is that what im hoping to do if Andy does it? No. Im just tired of what it has done to many ppl iknow and i just hanker for someone to beat the odds. May be futile but hope is all ive got left to be honest.

What is drinking normally?

You see, the perception of drinking normally might be 2-3 glasses of wine a night.  This amount of alcohol is really quite harmful to a persons health.  It could well lead to alcoholism.

Drinking normally could be going out and getting smashed on Friday and Saturday drinking 10 pints and a couple of shots a time..... Again a that's really bad for someone's health.


So what's my point (I often wonder this to be honest )...

Well, my point is that want many people see as "normal" drinking is actually quite a harmful level and is well beyond what health professionals would recommend.....

Statistically the most "normal" level of drinking is to drink almost nothing apart from birthdays Christmas weddings and funerals..... What's wrong with that?

[Sr Harvest Fiields]

Hypothetically i see ' normal ' as a drink without the fuck ups and reliance on alcohol.

[Tepid water]

Hypothetically i see ' normal ' as a drink without the fuck ups and reliance on alcohol.

You mean keep drinking but with only the upsides and none of the downsides?

Doesn't exist, you're chasing a rainbow.....

People you see drinking "normally" are still fucking themselves up, just a bit slower than more obviously alcoholic people

[Sr Harvest Fiields]

So what is the difference. Is every drinker an alcoholic. Every path we take mate is strewn with up and down sides, its how we control them that determine our path. I 'hope' there is hope for alcoholics i guess.

[Red Genius]

What the fuck is normal anyway?

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Einstein, he's not wrong.

[Sr Harvest Fiields]

As an alcoholic, normality to me, and maybe a lot of us here, is the ability to have a piss up and then forget about it till the next time. No reliance on booze.