Topic: New Premier League "Homegrown" Rule

[Bob Loblaw]

Restrictions on squad sizes will force clubs to overhaul playing staff

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/sep/14/premier-league-richard-scudamore-squads

Liverpool and several other Premier League clubs will have to dramatically overhaul their playing staffs for next season, when new rules will be introduced forcing them to limit squad sizes and encourage the development of "home-grown" talent.

The league's chief executive, Richard Scudamore, revealed that the 20 top-flight clubs last week agreed to the new rules. They are broadly based on Uefa's regulations for clubs competing in the Champions League and the Europa League but applying them to the Premier League as well will force some to slim down their squads in the face of accusations they are "stockpiling" talent.

Under the rules, clubs will have to name a squad of 25 players over 21 before the season begins. Eight of those players must be "home-grown", in that they must have been developed for at least three years by an English or Welsh club before their 21st birthday. They can name a second, limitless list of players under 21 and both lists can be resubmitted at the end of the January transfer window.

Liverpool will be among the worst-hit clubs. According to their website, they have 56 registered professionals with 23 battling for 17 spots for non-home-grown players within the squad under the new rules.

"It clearly encourages youth development and the promotion of young players, but, and we don't apologise for it, it goes nowhere near a nationality test because we don't believe that's right," said Scudamore. However, naturally, it is encouragement to those who are developed locally – from within your association – and that will encourage players who are qualified to play for the home country."

The Premier League, which signalled a U-turn earlier this year from its historic opposition to rules placing limits on squad sizes or introducing quotas, is likely to face criticism from some who feel the rules do not go far enough.

But Scudamore insisted the new rules would have a meaningful impact. "For players and agents, it will have an effect. It will reduce squad sizes, it will stop the warehousing of players. It will have an impact. If you're not in that 17, you're not playing. This is going to alter some dynamics," he said.

"Nothing is going to stop a club buying a 25-year-old from abroad. But they will have to get rid of someone else [to do so]. There will be some interesting discussions with those who are surplus to requirements and won't make the 17."

He refused to comment directly on the allegations about Premier League clubs scouring Europe for the best young talent in the wake of Fifa banning Chelsea from signing any new players until 2011 over the Gaël Kakuta affair.

"There aren't thousands of young people being shipped over here and brought into our academies," he said. "There are some, but the rhetoric of the last three weeks would have you believe there are boat loads coming in all the time. There are ones and twos."

The Premier League points to figures showing that 85% of the 320 academy scholars at its clubs are British, a figure that rises to 95% for the 2,486 students under the age of 16.

However, there is an acceptance that there is an issue around "transitioning" players aged between 18 and 21 to the first team. Scudamore said the new rules would help and promised it would be an area of focus for the league's new director of youth, Ged Roddy.

"It is a rule we think will give extra incentive for clubs to invest in youth development. The intention is to make a better return from investment in youth, to transition more players from the youth team to the first team. To make rather than buy is the intention," he said.

Even if it merely encouraged clubs to buy younger players he said the effect would be a positive one, using a culinary analogy to liken them to "that doughy stuff you buy half-made".

"You can buy semi-cooked stuff at 18, 19, 20 and that is better than someone saying 'forget youth development, I'm going to buy 25 to 31-year-olds from abroad fully cooked'."

The new proposals were partly motivated by the intervention of the former culture secretary Andy Burnham, who last year challenged football authorities on a wide-ranging series of questions concerning the future of the game.

Not sure why we're singled out there, i'm sure we've a comparable number of "pro's" to the other top clubs?

This will just mean English players becoming even more expensive surely?

Insua will qualify for us i'd imagine? Carra, Glen, Gerrard, Kelly?, Spearing? Is that about it?

[thredworm]

Like we're massively worse off than others.

[SMD]

Because Chelsea meet these requirements.

This is pretty much just the CL squad rules imposed on the Premier League. So if anything, we're already used to them.

Don't they do this in other leagues anyway?

[Libertine]

isn't degen the only senior player who didn't make our CL list? wouldn't expect to see him here next year anyway.

it'll just have to be one in, one out for any non-PL signings.

[Kraken]

Not sure why we're singled out there, i'm sure we've a comparable number of "pro's" to the other top clubs?

Because of the gubbins about us having the largest squad no doubt.

[El-Nino]

I'm not 100% aware of the restrictions but apparently every club already meets these restrictions but us and Chelsea only have the bare minimum of eight.

[El_Macca_17]

According to Sky, we have the minimum number of home grown players along with Chelsea. All the PL clubs are currently within the guidelines though so it seems to be a lot of posturing about nothing. Of greater interest was the announcement about accounts having to be submitted and the PL taking charge of clubs with massive debts.

[The Jackal]

So just English and Welsh then. Scottish and Irish are treated as non-homegrown?

We'll definitely have to cut some 'first teamers'  - Posted this in Gen Footy:

   Diego Cavalieri    
   Glen Johnson    
   Alberto Aquilani    
   Daniel Agger    
   Steven Gerrard    
   Fernando Torres    
   Andriy Voronin    
   Albert Riera    
   Fabio Aurelio    
   Yossi Benayoun    
   Sotirios Kyrgiakos    
   Dirk Kuyt    
   Ryan Babel    
   Javier Mascherano    
   Lucas Leiva    
   Emiliano Insua    
   Jamie Carragher    
   David Ngog    
   Pepe Reina    
   Jay Spearing    
   Philipp Degen    
   Damien Plessis    
   Nabil El Zhar
   Stephen Darby
   Martin Kelly
   Martin Skrtel
   Andrea Dossena
   Daniel Sanchez Ayala

All the players currently with squad numbers who have experienced some competitive first team action (except Aquilani obviously). There's 28 there and I'm not sure how many qualify as 'homegrown' - 6 definites. Maybe Insua? But that still leaves us with too big a squad by 3 if the squad is limited to 25.

[thredworm]

Johnson
Insua (by the time it comes into play)
Carragher
Gerrard
Kelly
Darby
Spearing
Pacheco (by the time it comes into play)

[redmark]

Under 21 year olds can also play regardless of status and without being named in the 25.

[ALANM]

Degen, Dossena and Voronin we can manage very well with out if we need to cut 3 players from the list The Jackal has posted. Losing those 3 would hardly be detrimental to the quality of the squad. It's also hard to see Babel having the desire to stay at Anfield for much longer. Hopefully the new sponsorship deal will enable us to compete for Premier League players next summer.

[Uhoh AureliOs]

Will Nemeth count despite spending (having spent at the time the rule comes into effect) a year of the three out on loan in Greece?

[LFCfan4Life]

Johnson
Insua (by the time it comes into play)
Carragher
Gerrard
Kelly
Darby
Spearing
Pacheco (by the time it comes into play)

Nemeth and loads more like Ayala, bouzanis, Gulacsi, LDV, Buchtmann, Kacaniklic etc if they stick around long enough and break through

[thredworm]

Will Nemeth count despite spending (having spent at the time the rule comes into effect) a year of the three out on loan in Greece?

Pretty sure that's a no. He's not being trained by us or any other English/Welsh club for his third year.

[LFCfan4Life]

Pretty sure that's a no. He's not being trained by us or any other English/Welsh club for his third year.

doesn't matter that he was out on loan outside of england we have held his registration for 3 years by the end of this season so he will be homegrown

[slide]

Retarded rule.

[Terry De Niro]

Retarded rule.

Really?

I reckon they should make a rule that we have to have  4 Scousers, 3 Jocks, 1 Geordie, 1 from Skegness, 1 from Northampton  and 1 from Barrow.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://www.liverweb.org.uk/report.asp?rec_id=4102

Fuck all the others off..

[liverpooll]

Nemeth and loads more like Ayala, bouzanis, Gulacsi, LDV, Buchtmann, Kacaniklic etc if they stick around long enough and break through

Nemeth will not become Homegrown as he came after his 18th birthday

[Beninger]

I'm glad Rafa has been signing so many young players...they've been coming in by the boatload.

[woof]

This is going to impact the league especially the big teams. Does anyone know how it will impact us, i.e. what is the number of homegrown players we have and how many do we have in the squad which we have to trim?

[Redshadow]

It does show the shrewd decisions that Rafa has been made when it comes to many young players that we have acquired so far. I'm not too worried at all.

[woof]

It means we have to trim the number of players though but I guess it also includes players on loan??

[buchigo!]

great foresight from rafa.

it's the same as the cl squads right? just name them but doesn't mean you have to play them?

[Strawberry Fields]

it's the same as the cl squads right? just name them but doesn't mean you have to play them?

As of now, yes, but I read a while ago that the PL are also working on a law that will force teams to name X number of "home grown" players in their matchday squad.

[Gee, Stevie]

They should have to number the players 1-25 too.

[JoeTwerp]

isn't degen the only senior player who didn't make our CL list? wouldn't expect to see him here next year anyway.

it'll just have to be one in, one out for any non-PL signings.

and El Zhar

[JoeTwerp]

to say that we have the minimum 8 is wrong. But because you can play U21s who cares.

Homegrown Senior players:
Martin
Johnson
Carra
Gerrard

thats only 4. Everyone else is U21.
Although by the time the rule comes around, Darby and Spearing wont be U21s anymore. Thats still only 6. I guess they must also be counting Brouwer and Duran (I seriously doubt any journo has any idea who they are) who will both have their 3 years and be senior plays in the next campaign (although I don't think either will be with us)

[Manila Kop]

Posted this on Youth/Reserves, a hypothetical 25-man PL squad based on our current players.

I can see it making players think twice about going to a PL club who are already overstocked in the import player department, knowing they may not make the squad for the league will certainly concentrate some minds.  Eight players over 21 out of a total squad of 25 is not a bad start.  As we currently stand that would mean our hypothetical 25-man squad would consist of:

1. Torres
2. Voronin
3. Ngog
4. Kuyt
5. Benayoun
6. Riera
7. Babel
8. El Zhar
9. Gerrard*
10. Lucas
11. Mascherano
12. Spearing*
13. Aurelio
14. Insua*
15. Carragher*
16. Skrtel
17. Agger
18. Kyrgiakos
19. Johnson*
20. Kelly*
21. Dossena
22. Darby*
23. Reina
24. Cavalieri
25. Martin*

We just squeak into the quota there.  Some 'squad' players like Degen and Plessis also had to be left off this list, while the likes of Ayala and Pacheco can feature on the unlimited B list.

[JoeTwerp]

you left out Aquilani

[Manila Kop]

you left out Aquilani

Guess he's taking El Zhar's spot then

[Joe Rogans Chin]

Getting a young English No 2 goalie will help, getting rid of Cavalieri in the process.

Expect us to be linked with the likes of Cattermole, Milner, Adam johnson, Wheater as well in the coming transfer windows.

We have plenty of English lads in the under 18's aswell.

[jDJ]

A well intentioned but completely and utterly flawed proposal. 

If the aim is to encourage clubs to make better use of their academies and develop rather than buy players then why on earth should the likes of Glen Johnson, Michael Carrick, Rio Ferdinand, Wayne Rooney, Ashley Cole, etc be counted as home grown.  We haven't developed Glen Johnson, we've just bought him for a ludicrous amount of money.

English players will become even more expensive and hotly pursued than they were previously.

[Strawberry Fields]

Expect us to be linked with the likes of Cattermole, Milner, Adam johnson, Wheater as well in the coming transfer windows.

Adam Johnson isn't a bad option. We'll be able to talk to him in January about a free transfer if he won't renew his contract by then.

[rocco]

What happens to the players not named in the 25 man squad ?

How many do we have at present in the first team squad ?

[Manila Kop]

A well intentioned but completely and utterly flawed proposal. 

If the aim is to encourage clubs to make better use of their academies and develop rather than buy players then why on earth should the likes of Glen Johnson, Michael Carrick, Rio Ferdinand, Wayne Rooney, Ashley Cole, etc be counted as home grown.  We haven't developed Glen Johnson, we've just bought him for a ludicrous amount of money.

English players will become even more expensive and hotly pursued than they were previously.

I look at this rule and I think it will force teams to get rid of third, fourth, and fifth choice imports which cannot be used because of the squad limits and replace them with youth team players, who can be registered on the B list instead.

If as you said there's price inflation for English players, that will simply mean that managers can buy overpriced mediocre English players or play their Academy products.  At some point those who like you believe they're overpriced relative to value/skill will say let's play the homegrown players instead of spending crazy money.

[RedMarko]

I'm glad Rafa has been signing so many young players...they've been coming in by the boatload.

It does show the shrewd decisions that Rafa has been made when it comes to many young players that we have acquired so far. I'm not too worried at all.

Think that's the point alright. We might have a bit of a tight squeeze for a season or 2 when it's coming in, but I think we'll be well set.
 
It was always coming down the road - I think this shows why Rafa wants to be so involved in the academy!
 
Also - will this add further pressure to Chelsea if they cannot buy any players next year? just a thought.

[Tim]

Doesn't this rule just encourage the sort of thing Chelsea have just been done for?

[Ultimate Bromance]

Bleh. Ridiculously overpriced, highly overrated English players to be making moves in the next few windows.

Weather at 10.

[buchigo!]

As of now, yes, but I read a while ago that the PL are also working on a law that will force teams to name X number of "home grown" players in their matchday squad.

cheers sf.

still the same thing though right? even if they make that law, you can't force teams who to play. unless they want to mandate having the 4-4-2 diamond as well ala the glory days of hoddle and waddle, all decked out in those gash umbro kits.

[fudge]

tend to agree with the sentiment in general , just how its not implemented badly as usual