Topic: Sunderland 1-1 Liverpool: Full time....

[Anton_LFC_]

Borini isn't part of the club then?

1 player doenst make the club....

Yes he is part of the club, yes i want us to succeed, yes ill be over the moon if Borini does suceed, no i dont think he will am i not entitled to say that on the forum?

[LiverpoolForever]

Borinis ok. But lets remember he was at roma with the likes of Bojan and Totti, and a wealth of experience. Here hes being asked to be the experienced forward.

Fair point mate , but he is at Liverpool with Suarez and Gerrard among others who should be supplying him , he was unlucky with his chance yesterday.

He just dosent look comfortable on the right which in fairness to him is probably making that settling in phase a bit more difficult.

[walshys_mullet]

In fairness Mr Mullet is right here.  When it comes to getting rid of managers he has consistently been ahead of the curve. 

Who did i want rid of? Rafa? Nope. Disagreed on his team rotation, who doesnt debate these things, but he was and still is a great manager. Dalglish? No chance, questioned some of his tactics but did i want rid? no.

Houllier...was never keen on him if i was honest even though he did a good job at the start. hodgson, forget it, even though i thought it be fair he given a crack of the whip.

[Sarge]

Fair play to Reading fans btw.

[walshys_mullet]

Fair point mate , but he is at Liverpool with Suarez and Gerrard among others who should be supplying him , he was unlucky with his chance yesterday.

He just dosent look comfortable on the right which in fairness to him is probably making that settling in phase a bit more difficult.

Well i think he would benefit with gerrard in the forward three, rather than gerrard in the middle, but thats just me. he much better centre though.

[Sarge]

1 player doenst make the club....

Yes he is part of the club, yes i want us to succeed, yes ill be over the moon if Borini does suceed, no i dont think he will am i not entitled to say that on the forum?

Give him time as he has played what 6 games?

[Chalky Boots]

I think there were improvements to tactical shape and covering at the back. There was certainly a development in the patience side of things. I also think without Enrique we look a lot more tactically smart when comes to covering the channels.

All in all and reasonable(ish) point, that would have been three without Glen shitting out of a 50-50. Tough place to go,especially for a side trying to piece together a system.

[clinical]

Borinis ok. But lets remember he was at roma with the likes of Bojan and Totti, and a wealth of experience. Here hes being asked to be the experienced forward.

I think people keep forgetting how young Borini is and how much pressure is on him. I think he's a good player, I would have liked Luuk De Jong instead but Borini will be good in the future.

[Chalky Boots]

I think people keep forgetting how young Borini is and how much pressure is on him. I think he's a good player, I would have liked Luuk De Jong instead but Borini will be good in the future.

Very true. He's a young lad who's got a lot of potential but needs time to settle into things, it's just not helpful to him that we're criminally short with senior forwards.

[Redrider]

What is most worrying is that the new players are adding very little. Borini is weaker than players we have released. Allen is ok, but does not live up to Rodgers billing, great at sideways passing but no real penetration, frankly little better than Henderson. Sahin is looking like a bench warmer. Thank goodness for Sterling and Shelvey who seem to have risen to the challenge. Meanwhile the defence is becoming as loose as a bag of nails, with Reina having the air of a player who has something on his mind other than the game.
With our next two games being Manure and Stoke it is hard to see a rapid influx of points to ease the immediate worries and it is almost certain that there will be no money for January.
A top four finish looks ever more remote.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

What is most worrying is that the new players are adding very little. Borini is weaker than players we have released. Allen is ok, but does not live up to Rodgers billing, great at sideways passing but no real penetration, frankly little better than Henderson. Sahin is looking like a bench warmer. Thank goodness for Sterling and Shelvey who seem to have risen to the challenge. Meanwhile the defence is becoming as loose as a bag of nails, with Reina having the air of a player who has something on his mind other than the game.
With our next two games being the Mancs and Stoke it is hard to see a rapid influx of points to ease the immediate worries and it is almost certain that there will be no money for January.
A top four finish looks ever more remote.

Hahahahaha.

Sahin has played one game immediately after signing.  Rather too early to make a judgement on one non performance.
Allen looks an excellent buy, he is now playing deeper than intended though due to the injury to Lucas.
The good thing with Borini is that he will get better, the players he replaced were declining.

[Anton_LFC_]

Give him time as he has played what 6 games?

your missing my point, we had the whole window to come up with 2 additional strikers, we loaned Carroll ok he didnt have a great season would rather he stayed BR clearly didnt have plans for him move on..

Borini arrives as one of the 2, he is very inexperienced, wasnt fantastic at Roma and had bags of experience around him, he wasnt being relied upon (i dont think he can be personally), so the weight is firmly on Borini as the backup striker however he starts out wide every week?? If he is such a decent young potential forward PLAY HIM THERE AND PROVE IT. For BR or any fan to say we cant play someone else out there have a word, theres a few young reserves who are natural wide players/inside forwards, give them the experience, does Borini need to be played wide really? Its killing me, i dont think he is good enough to lead the line (opinion) let alone play out of position, which clearly has done no favours to us or him.

Football is a confidence game, how many CF want to play wide?

I hope he gets 6 games in the middle to prove me wrong, i dont think he will but thats opinion, he needs time if he is going to improve or prove his ability, ok but IN THE RIGHT POSITION

im all for being proven wrong and i hope for a few DMs and a bashing if he does come good, i hope for him and LFC that he does, it just dont believe it atm and that doesnt mean i should go an support another team

[LiverpoolForever]

your missing my point, we had the whole window to come up with 2 additional strikers, we loaned Carroll ok he didnt have a great season would rather he stayed BR clearly didnt have plans for him move on..

Borini arrives as one of the 2, he is very inexperienced, wasnt fantastic at Roma and had bags of experience around him, he wasnt being relied upon (i dont think he can be personally), so the weight is firmly on Borini as the backup striker however he starts out wide every week?? If he is such a decent young potential forward PLAY HIM THERE AND PROVE IT. For BR or any fan to say we cant play someone else out there have a word, theres a few young reserves who are natural wide players/inside forwards, give them the experience, does Borini need to be played wide really? Its killing me, i dont think he is good enough to lead the line (opinion) let alone play out of position, which clearly has done no favours to us or him.

Football is a confidence game, how many CF want to play wide?

I hope he gets 6 games in the middle to prove me wrong, i dont think he will but thats opinion, he needs time if he is going to improve or prove his ability, ok but IN THE RIGHT POSITION

im all for being proven wrong and i hope for a few DMs and a bashing if he does come good, i hope for him and LFC that he does, it just dont believe it atm and that doesnt mean i should go an support another team

His form at Roma was enough for him to get in the Euro 2012 squad , i would rather take the coach of Italy's opinion over yours to be fair.

[Mr_Shane]

I thought we actually played reasonably well, apart from (1) putting away the chances. (2) Decision making - especially trying to play a through ball when there is no obvious opening or trying to do everything on their own when there is a better option.

Lets face it all these sides - WBA, Sunderland, the next ones being Norwich and  Stoke, they are taking points from off by being defensively organized, knowing fully well that we have problems breaking them down and then hitting us on the break or through set pieces. When all these sides go all defensive, they are obviously not going to let us play through balls easily. We probably need to do what Rodgers suggests move them around, probe, be patient, wait for their formation and structure  to break and then strike .... either that or let them come at us and then counterattack, when they need time to reorganize into a defensive formation. Yesterday, some of that was in evidence, but there is still improvement to be made, there are still players trying to force a through pass, when the chances of pulling that pass off were really small..

[Big Dirk]

The way I look at it there is no doubt we lack a bit more firepower up front,but if you look at the 4 games we have played so far-
WBA- we were the better team until the sending off and the penalty changed the game if that hadn't have happened we would have at least got a point.
Man City-thought it was the best we have played in along time,totally outplaying the league champions and only for a bad mistake we would have won.
Arsenal-no complaints we were shit and also looked tired from the Hearts game,which is why i hope we play the fringe and young players in the Europa cup.
Sunderland-Pretty similar to the City game at times I thought we battered them and should have got the 3 points.
So potentially we could we could have been sitting on 7 points,I really don't think it's all doom and gloom.

[Equilibrium]

His form at Roma was enough for him to get in the Euro 2012 squad , i would rather take the coach of Italy's opinion over yours to be fair.

Italy are hardly blessed with plenty of world class strikers. Their strengths are in midfield and defence.  Him making the euro's squad has no affect on whether he is good enough for us time will tell. Early signs are not good.

[LiverpoolForever]

Italy are hardly blessed with plenty of world class strikers. Their strengths are in midfield and defence.  Him making the euro's squad has no affect on whether he is good enough for us time will tell. Early signs are not good.

Absolutely , but at least give him time to adjust playing in a different position.

[Anton_LFC_]

Borini needs to get better he has added nothing to the forward line, Sahin has no pace and looked lost against Arsenal. Allan is tidy, but lacks penetration and physical substance.
If we have to be careful with scarce financial resources, then we have overspent on both Allan and Borini.

Sahin had been in England 2 days proir to Arsenal game, he didnt get a lot of playing time at Madrid last season, you cant expect him to boss Arsenal, i think he should have been left out of that game and played yesterday personally.

Allen needs Lucas back, as you say he isnt great physically and also he is poor aerially, Lucas will release Allen to play his natural role which will be an improvement

Borini i dont rate, in fairness to some of the comments he has been playing out of position (i dont personally think he will do much more in the middle)

[Anton_LFC_]

Absolutely , but at least give him time to adjust playing in a different position.

But he shouldnt be in that position... hope Assaidi gets on the field ASAP, i cant see Borini starting games if Assiadi does well wide, his first few games are going to be quite important, going to be a lot of pressure on him by the time he gets on the field in the league

[Melbred]

It's absolutely daft to write off young players who have played only a handful of games.

Sahin is too slow apparently, after playing one game for us. Allen passes sideways too much? Fuck me. Lad is playing a holding role in place of Lucas, and he lacks penetration apparently.

Seriously, I give up. With friends like these, who needs enemies.

[The 5th Benitle]

Please stop the bickering guys. And remember everyone's entitled to an opinion, no matter how ludicrous that opinion might be.

[danielfonseca]

it will be a long season , but sooner we start wining the better !!, we don't want to be in the lower half of the table over the next few games, the malaise could be fatal if BR keeps talking , and talking !!!

[Wilmo]

3.   Another aspect was the fact that when a forward player had the ball, others were not making themselves available, rather they were making runs here and there and so the person with the ball was constantly searching for the passes to be made, rather than it being a automatic process, i.e you know where your team mates would be in certain situations, again a complete opposite of Rodgers’ philosophy

Good post mate, especially this point number 3. I've always been coached that if you don't have the ball, you should always make it easier for the person with the ball by intelligent movement - people who just stood around waiting for it never lasted long in the teams I was in. It takes at LEAST two people to pass a ball. One to make the pass, one to move to receive it. Thing is, the players around the action also play an important part, teasing the opponents out of shape and making space for other runners to make themselves better available for a pass.

It's one thing which makes it so frustrating for me to watch England in particular; players just standing around expecting the ball. In the city game we constantly had players making incisive short runs, making it hard to City's players (midfield in particular) to plug in the gaps. It seems some players are already a bit tired of the work-rate needed for this style of football, or perhaps think they know better, and are slipping back into bad habits.

[LiverpoolForever]

But he shouldnt be in that position... hope Assaidi gets on the field ASAP, i cant see Borini starting games if Assiadi does well wide, his first few games are going to be quite important, going to be a lot of pressure on him by the time he gets on the field in the league

Thing is fella , if Assaidi has a slow start and dosent set the world alight you will probably be the first to say '' i dont rate him''.

If he gets off to a flyer thats brilliant because we need to create competition for places.With the squad being so light the danger is players getting into the comfort zone and playing every week regardless of form.

[The 5th Benitle]

Round table topic is up here http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=297644.0