Topic: The 'Negative Twats Annoy Me' thread

[shanklyboy]

Not comparing us to anyone, just dont think there is much excuse for drawing with these teams at home 0-0

That's a far too simplistic view and very shortsighted.
I could provide you with a catalogue of 'poor' results stretching back over 40 years against other 'lesser' teams.

Some when we won the league the same year and some when we were the best team in Europe. Sometimes both!
Some were draws and some were defeats.

I'd suggest you take a look at our results archives and have a rethink.

[4pool]

I think the problem resolves around the need to be entertained.

The media have ingrained this since the inception of football--otherwise known as 1992. They tell us which teams are entertaining.

Year after year of it and the brainwashing takes hold. It's a tide that is hard to stem.

Despite all logic thrown at those who now need to be entertained, such as some great stuff in this thread, some can't or won't think for themselves. Football isn't about entertainment-- it is about trying to win.

Past managers who we revere didn't talk about entertaining supporters, they talked about winning things for them.





We should update an old classic.
We're the best behaved supporters in the land--when we win

We're right shower of bastards when we lose--draw-- or haven't been entertained enough.

[scutty]

The 'Negative Threads Annoy Me' thread

[soberphobia]

Negativity? or reality? truth is our team is heading in the right direction we are improving but the improvement is slower than most would like. We have yet again scored less than the teams above us for the umpteenth season in a row and liverpools lack of scoring prowess is a major concern for a team looking to have title aspirations also its inability to deal with lesser opposition. This year has been a watershed year beating manchester united and chelsea in the same season something unheard of in the recent past. we have been waiting for a decent right winger for an eternity so its not all rosy but the team is a lot better than it was.

[TSC]

I think the problem resolves around the need to be entertained.

The media have ingrained this since the inception of football--otherwise known as 1992. They tell us which teams are entertaining.

Year after year of it and the brainwashing takes hold. It's a tide that is hard to stem.

Despite all logic thrown at those who now need to be entertained, such as some great stuff in this thread, some can't or won't think for themselves. Football isn't about entertainment-- it is about trying to win.

Past managers who we revere didn't talk about entertaining supporters, they talked about winning things for them.





We should update an old classic.
We're the best behaved supporters in the land--when we win

We're right shower of bastards when we lose--draw-- or haven't been entertained enough.

That's easy to say when you're  not a regular who spunks xxx amount going to games.  To be fair I'd accept boring football if as you say it brokered success.  However to watch mundane stuff without success (talking league here not CL) is a bit of a ball breaker.

Give me entertainment anytime and let the results look after themselves.

[Snoopy29]

lol...you nutjob....

rafa is seriously out...

He's good, but sometiems he just blows it...it's as if he can only go to some maximum level... and then goes downhill again...

I'm ready to be flamed... hahahahahahahaha...come on.....

[lfc_bhoy]

lol...you nutjob....

rafa is seriously out...

He's good, but sometiems he just blows it...it's as if he can only go to some maximum level... and then goes downhill again...

I'm ready to be flamed... hahahahahahahaha...come on.....

You have posted literally nothing of substance to flame about.  Your "points", and I dread to call them that, were superficial and completely arbitrary.  Nothing you said could be argued against because nothing you said elaborated a position of any kind.

[Rafadom]

That's easy to say when you're  not a regular who spunks xxx amount going to games.  To be fair I'd accept boring football if as you say it brokered success.  However to watch mundane stuff without success (talking league here not CL) is a bit of a ball breaker.

Give me entertainment anytime and let the results look after themselves.

I agree to a point but dont you mainly go to watch liverpool win instead of being entertained, Rafa has a huge problem in not onlt does he have to develop a title winning team but also one that plays dynamic football.

The history of football and general ideas and systems of football would suggest that you cannot have both at the starting point of a title winning team which is what this is.

Now im not saying some of the football we are devlivered is good enough because it isnt at times, but this increasing demand but halt else we are more likely to falter than succeed.

[TSC]

Rafa has a huge problem in not onlt does he have to develop a title winning team but also one that plays dynamic football.

The first would be preferable, but failing that I'd prefer to lose while attacking and trying to win.  Maybe a few of those costly draws would have been converted to wins?

Right now we're neither a title winning team nor one that plays dynamic football.

[James B]

All fans moan, it's to be expected and I don't have a problem with it.

Fans that personnally abuse their own players is something I strongly dislike however, additionally the biased fans who won't hear one bad word about the team (despite the bad words usually being true) get on my nerves...

[yafoy]

there is a n element of fans , probably younger who woudl lose our UNIQUE codex in order to be "winners" on the money-mad market...

I really dont think they realise that even if we became "winners" and lost that special "holy-trinity" ..we would just be a another "ManU/Chelsea" albeit with an LFC badge (& godness knows what sponsors names..on the shirts, stadium & everything else WE LOVE...that we still fight for HJC 20 years on, is something I am proud of, and i am NOT scouse-born..

this is special, we are the special ones...if we lost RAFA (who I am SURE respects & loves this aspect of this club) because of "boo-boys" ...then I would personally seek them out & hang them by their balls! because its MY lifes love U are F***ing with!

[4pool]

The first would be preferable, but failing that I'd prefer to lose while attacking and trying to win.  Maybe a few of those costly draws would have been converted to wins?

Right now we're neither a title winning team nor one that plays dynamic football.

Next time you see a player somewhere go ask him if the team deliberately tries to draw matches. Or deliberately tries not to win. And deliberately tries not to attack.

Go tell Gerrard, Carragher, Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Kuyt, Reina, Skrtel, and any player we have that. Not to mention Rafa himself, tell him as well. Tell Sammy Lee that, too

Go tell them your theory. That they don't try to win enough.

Let me know what they say.

[James B]

And deliberately tries not to attack.

That's seriously debatable mate. Look at our performance against Wigan at 0-0, then look at our performance in the same match at 2-1 down.

[west_london_red]

That's seriously debatable mate. Look at our performance against Wigan at 0-0, then look at our performance in the same match at 2-1 down.

But thats not just us or Rafa. When a team goes behind it throws the kitchen sink at the opposition. Happens all the time to other teams also.

[James B]

But thats not just us or Rafa. When a team goes behind it throws the kitchen sink at the opposition. Happens all the time to other teams also.

It is Rafa, he sets the team up to sit back and counter attack. He plays a 'hard to beat system', but when we're losing we change to a much more atttacking style of football that I believe we should be playing for every match, not just because we're chasing the game.

[4pool]

It is Rafa, he sets the team up to sit back and counter attack. He plays a 'hard to beat system', but when we're losing we change to a much more atttacking style of football that I believe we should be playing for every match, not just because we're chasing the game.

LOL.

Another myth of sorts.

Damn straight we need a team hard to beat. Is it any wonder that the side that wins the League year in and year out conceeds the least goals. Go check if you think i'm making it up.

But of course we are supposed to be so fluid in attack and the opposition is supposed to lie down and allow us to "entertain" because that is what some supporters thinks is how it all works.

We do have wave of attack after attack in virtually every match but no that is not good enough. It must be for 90 minutes.

And of course the likes of Wigan are supposed to play along and lets us show our skills. They aren't supposed to get stuck in and be physical to put us off our "entertaining" brand of football no sireee.  The fact that other top sides also look crap against the likes of Wigan, Stoke, Sunderland, Blackburn makes little difference. It's be entertained or nothing.

Like i said, go tell the players to their faces. Not post on the internet. Go tell Rafa he has it wrong and is defensive. Even though we are , and have been, in the top 4 goals scored year in and year out. But not the top of least goals allowed--where Champions are. We conceed less---we win more. Simple as.

[lgvkarlos]

See here's what I don't get though.

If we're so reliant on Torres, so hopelessly toothless without him, and if we are hampered as well by such a catious, negative manager...

How the hell have Utd only scored 3 more than us in one more game?

How are we, without our main striker and playing football that supposedly even George Graham would dismiss as dull, the joint 2nd highest scorers in the prem, level with 'gung ho' city, and ahead of 'most attackiest team in the world ever' Arsenal and 'British style passion wingers and goals' Aston Villa?

Now, I'm not about to pretent that Rafa is a 'gung ho' manager. Nor am I going to suggest with a straight face that our attack is up there with Utd's just yet...

But we are a LONG way from toothless without Torres (who hasn't been involved in any of our bigger wins this season, except Everton away and Chelsea home), and we certainly don't play defensive, counter attacking football aiming only not to concede.

Our GD against Utd and Chelsea is far more down to goals leaked than goals scored.


Can I also point out that when Man Utd play it isn't 'attack after attack'. What a load of bullshit. If you really think that you haven't been watching them play this season...they've been very controlled, and actually (when I've seen them) play more defensively than we do after going a goal up...like Newcastle yesterday. Once they got the lead they barely attacked for the rest of the game.

Also, if you honestly think (2nd poster quoted) that we WON'T win it with Rafa...well mate. You might as well give up now because there's no-one better out there. No one. The only managers with records to touch him have won their big trophies at bigger (certainly based on recent history) clubs with much more money (EG Cappello, Lippi, Mourinho etc)

Great post.  Problem at the moment is Rafa seems to be like marmite. (You either love him or hate him)
and the ones that hate seem to delight in any bad results (sad to say but true)

And in those immortal words from Keegan " I would love it" if we won the league under Rafa and shut up all the pundits and anti Rafa brigade.   

How sweet that would be.   (and waits for all the negative posts)

[tomtom]

Negativity? or reality? truth is our team is heading in the right direction we are improving but the improvement is slower than most would like. We have yet again scored less than the teams above us for the umpteenth season in a row and liverpools lack of scoring prowess is a major concern for a team looking to have title aspirations also its inability to deal with lesser opposition. This year has been a watershed year beating manchester united and chelsea in the same season something unheard of in the recent past. we have been waiting for a decent right winger for an eternity so its not all rosy but the team is a lot better than it was.

We're only 3 goals off the pace though.. where as we've conceeded 8 more...

It's a very simplistic way of looking at things. We've dropped points not just because of our inability to break some sides down, but also through some poor defending.

We need that little bit of improvement in all area's of the pitch. I do think we already have the right players who can improve our defensive performance though, were as we do need to bring in at least 2 players who can offer more going forwards. The difficulty lies in getting the right players who don't upset the opposite aspect of the game, i.e bringing in a forward who doesn't adhere to our hard working style of play... a Berbatov for example.

[3rdStone]

It is Rafa, he sets the team up to sit back and counter attack.

Did we get in a tartus and go back to 2005? You may not like our style of football but if you think we set up to sit back I think you stopped watching us years ago.

We live in opposition half, dominate possession and dominate chances. Unfortunately we miss those chances.

[liverbnz]

That's a far too simplistic view and very shortsighted.
I could provide you with a catalogue of 'poor' results stretching back over 40 years against other 'lesser' teams.

Some when we won the league the same year and some when we were the best team in Europe. Sometimes both!
Some were draws and some were defeats.

I'd suggest you take a look at our results archives and have a rethink.

Did Shankly not say that football was a simple game? You have to win them sort of games if you wanna be sucessful in this league. It is too many games to be drawing, at home especially. I didn't say we have to win them all but half at least. We should be beating teams like that simplistic yes, shortsighted definetely not.

[conman]

LOL.

Another myth of sorts.

Damn straight we need a team hard to beat. Is it any wonder that the side that wins the League year in and year out conceeds the least goals. Go check if you think i'm making it up.

But of course we are supposed to be so fluid in attack and the opposition is supposed to lie down and allow us to "entertain" because that is what some supporters thinks is how it all works.

We do have wave of attack after attack in virtually every match but no that is not good enough. It must be for 90 minutes.

And of course the likes of Wigan are supposed to play along and lets us show our skills. They aren't supposed to get stuck in and be physical to put us off our "entertaining" brand of football no sireee.  The fact that other top sides also look crap against the likes of Wigan, Stoke, Sunderland, Blackburn makes little difference. It's be entertained or nothing.

Like i said, go tell the players to their faces. Not post on the internet. Go tell Rafa he has it wrong and is defensive. Even though we are , and have been, in the top 4 goals scored year in and year out. But not the top of least goals allowed--where Champions are. We conceed less---we win more. Simple as.

i think really our problem with the style of play is that our attacking is not fluid enough or (to use the term of the past few months) cutting edge. we show that we can score goals, but we need to be able to show more that we can score goals in games that are hard to win..

[3rdStone]

Manu score less from open play than we do. They do however have no problem scoring from corners.

[conman]

Manu score less from open play than we do. They do however have no problem scoring from corners.

but they tend to score more often per game than we do... i mean, where we have our 0-0's, they will scrape a goal in somehow... thats what we need...  and we are not a threat really as u say from corners, or freekicks for that matter

[3rdStone]

but they tend to score more often per game than we do... i mean, where we have our 0-0's, they will scrape a goal in somehow... thats what we need...  and we are not a threat really as u say from corners, or freekicks for that matter

That was the point I was making. The negative ones will lump everything under 'if only we attacked more' when there are other things that win games than fluid goals from open play. For the most part, we only score those types of goals. Some draws were a lack of ambition. But only a couple. Far more were missing sitters (the result of attacking) or leaking a silly goal. We drew at Wigan because we were playing end to end and eventually got caught on the break with everyone forward.

More goals from corners and set peices, better finishing and a tighter defence is a much better solution and assement than 'we don't attack' which IMO is complete nonsense.

[tomtom]

We should be able to beat the likes of Stoke, Boro, Fulham and West Ham without the need for big money strikers. Did we not beat boro 2-0 at the Riverside in their UEFA Cup run season with the poor Morientes? Did we not comeback and beat Fulham 4-2 with 10 men in 2004? Who was up front then? Baros? Mellor? Benítez has done it before overhauling Barca and Real twice with a limited budget. You have to admit he has made some mistakes this season (as well as the players), and some of them mistakes are the same ones he has been making since he arrived.

If it was that simple then the league would be wide open with a different champion each year. The re-occurance of the same 4 teams coming top shows thats not the case. The simple fact is the more quality your team has, the more likely you are to win more and more games each season. You can't just draw a line in the sand and say 'right, we've got enough good players to beat all these teams', footballs not that simple.

The fact we beat the top teams but struggle against some smaller teams at home shows our team is strong in some departments but not as strong in others. If anything the the increasing gulf between top and bottom has resulted in more and more teams coming with a park the bus mentality. Inevitibly this makes them harder to beat as chances are less frequent and are often 'half chances' with plenty of bodies present between the attacker and the goal. The result of which is unless you have supremely talented forwards who take chances and half chances you often end up drawing games, look at Arsenal. Its hard to say the result of this doesn't suit the mancs who have an abundance of quality uptop. I'll bet we make as many chances as they do the problem is we don't take them, nor do our defenders chip in from set pieces for that matter.

As others have pointed out though its not just scoring thats our problem, we have scored almost as many as the Mancs and Chelsea, the biggest difference is goals conceeded. To fully understand how thats affected our points you'd need to break down the results but from my memory I can say defending has cost us just as much as lack of cutting edge.

Anyway, as we are we have accumulated more points this season at this stage than any other season dating back to the 90-91 season - we are making progress. Rafa has made some errors but thats the nature of the game, every manager does. When we improve again this summer we should win yet more games again next season, but its inevitibly that we, and the Mancs, and Chelsea will at some point during the season drop points against comparatively weaker sides, thats football.

[mooks]

I actually think the opposite is true.

Breaking down stubborn teams with no interest in forward play is exactly what you buy £30million players for.

Put it this way, Rafa can out-tactic anyone. He knows how to break these teams down...after all, there isn't one game against a team like this where we haven't made enough decent chances to win the game comfortably (not something that could be said of Houllier's time). It's also fair to say that the sheer motivation and determination to implement any tactical plans to the letter simply isn't there against these teams...it isn't for anyone. Man Utd don't batter these sides...at least not unless they get a couple of goals early in the first or 2nd half and the opposition gives up.

What they do have, however, is cutting edge players all over the pitch who are marginally more likely than ours to take one of those 2 or 3 chances if it comes, while also having a superior back 4 that means that they see the game as all but won at 1-0, where we are still nervous and don't feel comfortable until 2-0.

The sheer nuber of such players they have also means that they can rotate against these kind of teams (as we all have to, it's essential if we want to compete in the CL, which again isn't optional with our finances, we HAVE to compete in the CL) but still keep almost the same strength...EG Tevez in for Rooney, Fletcher in for Carrick, Giggs in for Ronaldo and sure it's a weaker team, but almost a seamless transition, and the replacements are trusted completely.

As for men in the box, it's true to a certain extent (though an extra man in the box might also mean 1 less on the edge to regain possession, there is a balance to be struck) but I think we'd be greatly helped here by that attacking RB...if our FBs provide the width then the Kuyt/Riera (or whoever) have a lot more chance to get into the box and make a nuisance of themselves.

Fantastic post - good insight

[mooks]

You have posted literally nothing of substance to flame about.  Your "points", and I dread to call them that, were superficial and completely arbitrary.  Nothing you said could be argued against because nothing you said elaborated a position of any kind.

LOL!

[shanklyboy]

Did we get in a tartus and go back to 2005? You may not like our style of football but if you think we set up to sit back I think you stopped watching us years ago.

We live in opposition half, dominate possession and dominate chances. Unfortunately we miss those chances.

What's a tartus?

1. A Latin prostitute?
2. The noise a hamster makes when it sneezes?
3. A time machine in the shape of a cake?



Good points made by the way.

[James B]

LOL.

Another myth of sorts.

Damn straight we need a team hard to beat. Is it any wonder that the side that wins the League year in and year out conceeds the least goals. Go check if you think i'm making it up.

But of course we are supposed to be so fluid in attack and the opposition is supposed to lie down and allow us to "entertain" because that is what some supporters thinks is how it all works.

We do have wave of attack after attack in virtually every match but no that is not good enough. It must be for 90 minutes.

And of course the likes of Wigan are supposed to play along and lets us show our skills. They aren't supposed to get stuck in and be physical to put us off our "entertaining" brand of football no sireee.  The fact that other top sides also look crap against the likes of Wigan, Stoke, Sunderland, Blackburn makes little difference. It's be entertained or nothing.

Like i said, go tell the players to their faces. Not post on the internet. Go tell Rafa he has it wrong and is defensive. Even though we are , and have been, in the top 4 goals scored year in and year out. But not the top of least goals allowed--where Champions are. We conceed less---we win more. Simple as.

That is probably the biggest load of bullshit I have ever read on this forum, and that is saying something mate. You're a biased fool and quite frankly I can't be arsed arguing with you.

Did we get in a tartus and go back to 2005? You may not like our style of football but if you think we set up to sit back I think you stopped watching us years ago.

We live in opposition half, dominate possession and dominate chances. Unfortunately we miss those chances.

Ah, so we haven't been winning the league in the last few season because of missed chances? Ok...

[Ultimate Bromance]

You have posted literally nothing of substance to flame about.  Your "points", and I dread to call them that, were superficial and completely arbitrary.  Nothing you said could be argued against because nothing you said elaborated a position of any kind.

God, this is probably my all-time favorite sentence ever read on any internet forum ever, as it sums up my opinion on 2/3rds of the drivel I read from people on various forums nowadays. Do you mind if I quote you for my signature?

[Rafadom]

I actually think the opposite is true.

Breaking down stubborn teams with no interest in forward play is exactly what you buy £30million players for.

Put it this way, Rafa can out-tactic anyone. He knows how to break these teams down...after all, there isn't one game against a team like this where we haven't made enough decent chances to win the game comfortably (not something that could be said of Houllier's time). It's also fair to say that the sheer motivation and determination to implement any tactical plans to the letter simply isn't there against these teams...it isn't for anyone. Man Utd don't batter these sides...at least not unless they get a couple of goals early in the first or 2nd half and the opposition gives up.

What they do have, however, is cutting edge players all over the pitch who are marginally more likely than ours to take one of those 2 or 3 chances if it comes, while also having a superior back 4 that means that they see the game as all but won at 1-0, where we are still nervous and don't feel comfortable until 2-0.

The sheer nuber of such players they have also means that they can rotate against these kind of teams (as we all have to, it's essential if we want to compete in the CL, which again isn't optional with our finances, we HAVE to compete in the CL) but still keep almost the same strength...EG Tevez in for Rooney, Fletcher in for Carrick, Giggs in for Ronaldo and sure it's a weaker team, but almost a seamless transition, and the replacements are trusted completely.

As for men in the box, it's true to a certain extent (though an extra man in the box might also mean 1 less on the edge to regain possession, there is a balance to be struck) but I think we'd be greatly helped here by that attacking RB...if our FBs provide the width then the Kuyt/Riera (or whoever) have a lot more chance to get into the box and make a nuisance of themselves.

Very good post.

[3rdStone]

Ah, so we haven't been winning the league in the last few season because of missed chances? Ok...

We haven't won the league because we're not good enough yet. We're not supposed to win the league anyway. But we're building a team that is improving and may do it soon if we have a season where everything comes together and we can overcome the financial gulf between us ans teams costing 50-70 million more than ours.

Missing sitters when we dominate is a big problem though. So is not scoring from corners. So is leaking silly goals when we should just shut up shop and keep a clean sheet. Having our leading scorer fit for nearly every single league match wouldn't hurt - look what just that one simple thing has done for United. Their record is dire without him.

[James B]

We haven't won the league because we're not good enough yet.

Missing sitters when we dominate is a big problem though. So is not scoring from corners. So is leaking silly goals when we should just shut up shop and keep a clean sheet. Having our leading scorer fit for nearly every single league match wouldn't hurt - look what just that one simple thing has done for United. Their record is dire without him.

Of course, but when Man Utd have other key players injured, they can replace those players with subs who are just as good. They have much greater strength in depth than us. They go for the kill early on though, the way Liverpool start games at Anfield tends to be slow and controlled, only when we go a goal down do we start to play the exciting attacking football that Manchester United tend to play. We are clearly capable of it and I've said it so many times, I'd love Rafa to be more adventurous in his tactics.

[conman]

Of course, but when Man Utd have other key players injured, they can replace those players with subs who are just as good. They have much greater strength in depth than us. They go for the kill early on though, the way Liverpool start games at Anfield tends to be slow and controlled, only when we go a goal down do we start to play the exciting attacking football that Manchester United tend to play. We are clearly capable of it and I've said it so many times, I'd love Rafa to be more adventurous in his tactics.

well its almost a fact at this stage, that if we concede, we WILL score a goal, and probably win!

[tomtom]

For what its worth, as of March 6th 2009;

Liverpool    Shots: 397  On Target: 147  Accuracy: 37%

Man Utd     Shots: 359  On Target: 170  Accuracy: 47%

Would suggest we're being let down in the final 3rd, not in making, but taking chances.

And I can't remember where but I've read that we'd hit the post something stupid like 17 times, that was a month back and it was well above anyone else's figure.

[west_london_red]

For what its worth, as of March 6th 2009;

Liverpool    Shots: 397  On Target:147  Accuracy: 37%

Man Utd     Shots: 359  On Target:170  Accuracy: 47%

Would suggest we're being let down in the final 3rd, not in making, but taking chances.

And I can't remember where but I've read that we'd hit the post something stupid like 17 times, that was a few months back and it was well above anyone else's figure.

Our finishing is piss poor. Sadly some people confuse that with negative football.

[FernandoTourettes]

I actually think the opposite is true.

Breaking down stubborn teams with no interest in forward play is exactly what you buy £30million players for.

Put it this way, Rafa can out-tactic anyone. He knows how to break these teams down...after all, there isn't one game against a team like this where we haven't made enough decent chances to win the game comfortably (not something that could be said of Houllier's time). It's also fair to say that the sheer motivation and determination to implement any tactical plans to the letter simply isn't there against these teams...it isn't for anyone. Man Utd don't batter these sides...at least not unless they get a couple of goals early in the first or 2nd half and the opposition gives up.

What they do have, however, is cutting edge players all over the pitch who are marginally more likely than ours to take one of those 2 or 3 chances if it comes, while also having a superior back 4 that means that they see the game as all but won at 1-0, where we are still nervous and don't feel comfortable until 2-0.

The sheer nuber of such players they have also means that they can rotate against these kind of teams (as we all have to, it's essential if we want to compete in the CL, which again isn't optional with our finances, we HAVE to compete in the CL) but still keep almost the same strength...EG Tevez in for Rooney, Fletcher in for Carrick, Giggs in for Ronaldo and sure it's a weaker team, but almost a seamless transition, and the replacements are trusted completely.

As for men in the box, it's true to a certain extent (though an extra man in the box might also mean 1 less on the edge to regain possession, there is a balance to be struck) but I think we'd be greatly helped here by that attacking RB...if our FBs provide the width then the Kuyt/Riera (or whoever) have a lot more chance to get into the box and make a nuisance of themselves.

Tevez has scored two already today, and Clive Tyldesely said something along the lines of " Two goals from the Manchester Utd reserve" refering to him having not started the last two games... just another example of the depth of their squad compared to ours really.

[Passmaster Molby]

For what its worth, as of March 6th 2009;

Liverpool    Shots: 397  On Target: 147  Accuracy: 37%

Man Utd     Shots: 359  On Target: 170  Accuracy: 47%

Would suggest we're being let down in the final 3rd, not in making, but taking chances.

And I can't remember where but I've read that we'd hit the post something stupid like 17 times, that was a month back and it was well above anyone else's figure.

Those stats are really interesting. It disproves the "negative football" bollocks that gets thrown at Rafa, but also highlights the fact we need one or two more top class match winners in the squad. These are the players who take chances when they come, and at present we only have 2 of these (Gerrard and Torres) whereas the Mancs have 4 (Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov). Doesn't help that we have missed our 2 for large chunks of the season either

[*]

Everyone used to say GH's team were boring too and he was telling everyone we had the most shots, most freekicks, most corners and most goals scored in all competitions and they were all right.

[TSC]

Next time you see a player somewhere go ask him if the team deliberately tries to draw matches. Or deliberately tries not to win. And deliberately tries not to attack.

Go tell Gerrard, Carragher, Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Kuyt, Reina, Skrtel, and any player we have that. Not to mention Rafa himself, tell him as well. Tell Sammy Lee that, too

Go tell them your theory. That they don't try to win enough.

Let me know what they say.

No idea from what angle you're coming from now, but here goes.  Excuse the delay but I've only just came across your response.

I posted that if we were to fail I'd prefer to fail while playing attacking football, not playing out draws.  Most would agree I'd guess, though I could be wrong.

Where in my post did I accuse players of deliberately playing out draws as you insinuate?

You're yet again using your tired old tactic like you do when defending the indefensible re the ownership of changing the content and general gist of posts to suit your own pathetic agenda.

You're sitting over in your jaxi in Texas and your lecturing me on theories?  I attend games you knob, home and away.  And have had a season tkt for many a year.

So excuse me if I have a point of view about the team and tactics.  I wouldn't like to read your response if I was in some way critical!

 Actually I would welcome it, given your nonsense spouted consistently in defence of the fat Texan bastard who's managed to get his claws into this club.

Until you start going to games to watch LFC regularly instead of quoting crap about Hicks perfomances in shite & irrelevant American sports you'll have to excuse me when from now on I treat your posts on matters football with the disdain they deserve.