Author Topic: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.  (Read 13525 times)

Offline Col

  • Shaves his tongue and shares makeup tips. May be a little camp.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,171
Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« on: March 3, 2009, 03:45:42 PM »
When Manchester United have an important game to play against one of the Premier League's elite teams, the first name on the teamsheet is one that most people would not expect. It's not Ronaldo or Rooney, or Dimitar Berbatov for that "spark of inspiration (© the English media)" he can bring. It isn't even Rio Ferdinand or his faithful old partner Mr Vidic. It is, in fact, Park Ji-Sung.

The attributes Park brings to the team are obvious to those with a footballing brain, yet no so blinding to the average Joe who watches the odd match down the pub with his mates on a Saturday evening. He's not the most creative player around, he doesn't have a fantastic goalscoring record - although he has notched a fair amount of important goals over the last few years - and the majority of the football-viewing community will more often than not put his inclusion in the side down to injuries or rotation to other players. However, if that were the case, then the fact he starts almost all the 'big' games must be some kind of epic coincidence?

Not so.

He's in the team because he's extremely well disciplined, has a fantastic engine, and will harry, press, and close down the opposition defenders for 90 minutes without once asking for credit or a more free role within the team. He's actually very good technically, but he doesn't have that fear factor - defenders would be relieved to see him starting the game when the other options are Wayne Rooney and Carlos Tevez. He's in the team to do a particular job - help United defend as far up the pitch as possible and restrict the opposition defenders to play percentage balls in behind the full-backs - would you fancy many players to come out on top in a foot race against Patrice Evra or Rafael Da Silva? Even if the opposition do win the ball out in crossable positions, their team will struggle to win the aerial battle in the goal area against Van Der Sar, Ferdinand, and Vidic. Park's inclusion in the team narrow's the oppisitions options when attacking a lot more than you'd think, and that's before considering his willingness to track back and cover, and the speed at which he can do it.

He will create chances, he will score goals... but not as much as some of his more reputable team-mates, which is why he doesn't play when he's not needed - against the smaller teams who simply try to shut up shop when they play against Manchester United. Why bother forcing the opposition defence to play long balls and battle for the small percentages, when they're going to do it anyway? There is no need for such a player playing in such a manner, in such a game.

Which brings us neatly on rather neatly to Dirk Kuyt. Kuyt is slightly more erratic than Park technically - he can be brilliant one week (as he has been for the majority of this season), then very sloppy the next. His best is better than Park's, as is his goalscoring ability, but Park edges it for consistency. Kuyt will never be considered prolific whilst playing for Liverpool, although every time the big, big games come around, a double on Kuyt scoring and Liverpool winning is always a decent bet to make. He's got barrelloads of bottle, and steps up when it counts.

Many people labour the opinion that he is only in the team because of his work-rate and energy - much the same reason Park plays the big games for our neighbours down the East Lancs Road - and whilst there's no denying that he's actually a very good player most of the time, I'm tempted to agree.

We don't need players like Kuyt against Bolton, Stoke, West Brom and Blackburn... in fact I'm not even sure we'd need him against Newcastle or Manchester City - Kuyt's place in the squad should be to perform in the big, big games and let a more technically-gifted, creative, and overall more productive attacker take his place for the rest of the games. A bit like Park Ji-Sung, then.

The reasons I'm labouring the comparison with a bit-part player from Manchester United are self-explanatory once the rose-tinted glasses are removed - we are still quite far from their level, and a lot of that is down to our overall defensive approach to attacking. When teams come to defend against us, we need craft, vision, and something unpredictable - we only have two players who can genuinely offer this, and Kuyt isn't one of them. As it stands, Dirk Kuyt is guaranteed a place in the team 95% of the time, provided he is fit. And that is a major problem.

Now don't get me wrong, I like Kuyt as a player and this is in no way a slight against him, but for 8 out of 10 Premier League games we can do without him - or rather we could, should we have a suitable replacement.

We still need a genuine right winger. Not a converted forward-cum-workhorse. Look again at the Manchester United approach to Premier League football - their manager is from the 'we'll score more than you' school of management, and it shows in both their league position and goal difference columns.

It is time for us to follow their lead. It has been said by many in the past, and it rings very, very true at the time of writing - we are far too cautious and defensive when playing in the Premier League games, and Kuyt's change to a winger, and continual inclusion in the side just emphasise the fact.

Much has been said over the past few months about our lack of money, Rafael Benítez' contract negotiations, the battle for ownership, and every other thing you could possibly think of that should have been kept within the boardroom - but the fact of the matter is that Rafael Benítez is battling to keep his job, and a lot of the players are battling to stay at Liverpool Football Club.

Another fact is that we don't have any money, whichever way you look at it, so from now until the end of the season - in the Premier League at least - Mr Benítez should realistically only have one real option - adopt a much more attacking, gung-ho approach to most games, which in my view will mean either using Dirk Kuyt much further up the pitch, or by giving him the freedom just to attack - he's naturally a centre forward, so let's see what he can really do. In the summer we can (hopefully) think about bringing in some genuine attacking quality out on the right wing... but until then Dirk Kuyt is still out best option out there, but if he is to play there regularly then the whole team must be given the license to attack for 90 minutes at a time.
« Last Edit: March 3, 2009, 05:32:54 PM by Col »
I don't have to sell my soul... he's already in me.

Offline lachesis

  • RAWK Scribe
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,023
  • МАРКСИСТ
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #1 on: March 3, 2009, 03:59:36 PM »
Good post mate, provides a basis for good discussion. I think Kuyt is instrumental in our play. A lot of things go through him, and even when he's not being too effective he's usually involved in our better moves.

The major difference is deeper players contributing to attack; look at Johnathan Evans the other day, gave a ball then ended up on the d of the opponents box waiting for a return pass. We just don't do this, with the exception of Agger.

All in all I think Kuyt is the least fo our worries and problems currently.

Offline Djibriliant

  • Last of the Great Romantics. All-year-round-twattish-dresser.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,472
  • A man's got to have a code.
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #2 on: March 3, 2009, 04:02:34 PM »
In a way he is exactly the type of player Kuyt is for us in Europe
He wasn't perfect, he made mistakes. But he was genuine. He had the best interests of the club at heart, and gave us a plethora of successful teams that we should have been thankful for.

Online hide5seek

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,599
  • We all live in THE 5 EUROPEAN CUPS
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #3 on: March 3, 2009, 04:17:39 PM »
Kuyt would be a fantastic squad player.

Offline SquirmyRooter

  • RoomySquirter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,040
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #4 on: March 3, 2009, 04:20:14 PM »
Don't want to piss on anyones parade but when it came to the biggest Champions League game of all, The Final, Park didn't even make the squad and IN TOTAL Park's started in 6 CL games in 4 years at United.

He was a revelation for PSV in the midfield though and is a good squad player for them imo, along with the likes of OShea and Fletcher.

« Last Edit: March 3, 2009, 04:22:41 PM by SquirmyRooter »
Insight, Perspective, Objectivity.

No Delusions Here.

Offline mainstandred

  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,399
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #5 on: March 3, 2009, 04:26:40 PM »
one player would sort out all the right sided problems.



Steven Gerrard

Online Gnurglan

  • The Swedish Savaloy
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 29,757
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #6 on: March 3, 2009, 04:28:57 PM »
Good post mate, provides a basis for good discussion. I think Kuyt is instrumental in our play. A lot of things go through him, and even when he's not being too effective he's usually involved in our better moves.
...
All in all I think Kuyt is the least fo our worries and problems currently.

Agree that Kuyt isn't a problem.

People want to see a pacey winger with a bag full of tricks and by all means, I'd like that too. In fact, I think the most critical signing this summer is likely to be a LM/RM who is almost certain to play every game when he's fit. Similar to C. Ronaldo at Man U.
The thing with the desire for the winger is that a lot of people tend to say that's the best solution and then they compare how Kuyt fits the bill.

If we want an upgrade, let's look at the contribution we get from Babel, Riera, Kuyt and Benayoun. Of those Kuyt is the one I'd pick first for any game.

          * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline Col

  • Shaves his tongue and shares makeup tips. May be a little camp.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,171
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #7 on: March 3, 2009, 04:32:20 PM »
Don't want to piss on anyones parade but when it came to the biggest Champions League game of all, The Final, Park didn't even make the squad and IN TOTAL Park's started in 6 CL games in 4 years at United.

He was a revelation for PSV in the midfield though and is a good squad player for them imo, along with the likes of OShea and Fletcher.



He was left out of the final, despite being the MoM against Barcelona in the semis and being excellent in both legs of the quarters, setting Rooney up in the first leg.

I don't have to sell my soul... he's already in me.

Offline Col

  • Shaves his tongue and shares makeup tips. May be a little camp.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,171
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #8 on: March 3, 2009, 04:34:27 PM »


If we want an upgrade, let's look at the contribution we get from Babel, Riera, Kuyt and Benayoun. Of those Kuyt is the one I'd pick first for any game.

You'd pick Kuyt as the right winger against West Brom or Sunderland, ahead of someone like Benayoun?
I don't have to sell my soul... he's already in me.

Offline LFC when it suits

  • Not got a fucking clue. Life is well, a bit of a long time. And that unconditional support thing can be a bit of a drag. Something better may come along. circumscribed
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,544
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #9 on: March 3, 2009, 04:34:44 PM »
Don't want to piss on anyones parade but when it came to the biggest Champions League game of all, The Final, Park didn't even make the squad and IN TOTAL Park's started in 6 CL games in 4 years at United.

He was a revelation for PSV in the midfield though and is a good squad player for them imo, along with the likes of OShea and Fletcher.



Man Utd could have done with him seeign as they were tottal over run in the 2nd half and extra time by Chelsea.

royhendo

  • Guest
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #10 on: March 3, 2009, 04:37:07 PM »
Enjoyed that Col, thanks...

Park was a good bit of business by Ferguson methinks.

There was an article on Park Ji Sung in the Observer that highlighted how he's seen by his teammates - mostly it was irrelevant to the thread, but it made me think of some of the debates here.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/mar/01/park-ji-sung-manchester-united

Won't post the article as there's a lot of fluff... but still, an interesting one.

Offline SquirmyRooter

  • RoomySquirter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,040
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #11 on: March 3, 2009, 04:37:25 PM »
Man Utd could have done with him seeign as they were tottal over run in the 2nd half and extra time by Chelsea.

Possibly but then they may not have battered Chelsea first half with him on the pitch.

Swings and roundabouts.

he's started 6 Champions league games in 4 seasons and was left out of the biggest of the lot.

The premise of the whole thread is flawed.

Sorry.
Insight, Perspective, Objectivity.

No Delusions Here.

Offline SquirmyRooter

  • RoomySquirter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,040
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #12 on: March 3, 2009, 04:39:56 PM »
I do however see his value to United.

Fergusons ability to utilise squad players like Park et al and fit them in to the system as if they play there every week is one of his greatest qualities. They all seem happy too.

Fletcher was a revelation against Inter, bossed Cambiasso all game.
Insight, Perspective, Objectivity.

No Delusions Here.

Online smicer07

  • Miserable sod!
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 27,531
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #13 on: March 3, 2009, 04:41:34 PM »
Park is bobbins.

Offline Greg

  • RAWK Statto
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,646
    • http://www.twitter.com/@paintbox_
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #14 on: March 3, 2009, 04:41:43 PM »
Don't want to piss on anyones parade but when it came to the biggest Champions League game of all, The Final, Park didn't even make the squad and IN TOTAL Park's started in 6 CL games in 4 years at United.
Suprised to hear that. But let's face it, Man U are a very good team but tactically they sometimes fall short in Europe. Whereas we our not normally tactically outwitted, just beaten fair and square sometimes.


I thought the second paragraph sounded a bit arrogant but I know where you're coming from. But I don't think Park or Kuyt have great footballing brains themselves really. I think they are workhorses with a fantastic attitude. They are vital to the sides in the big games when you need to stop a good footballing team from playing.



Good post mate, provides a basis for good discussion. I think Kuyt is instrumental in our play. A lot of things go through him, and even when he's not being too effective he's usually involved in our better moves.

I suspect that the discussion will go in the usual direction when we talk about Kuyt. That he is needed in the big games but he is surplus to requirements in the other games.

But I think this is useful post regardless because there's a lot of people who claim he's a good player who should play, and there's others who claim he's a bad player who shouldn't play.

They're all correct in my opinion, but his inclusion should only depend on the kind of game we're playing. It's fair to say that Rafa doesn't think this way though. Maybe he will next season if he has a better option.

Offline Greg

  • RAWK Statto
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,646
    • http://www.twitter.com/@paintbox_
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #15 on: March 3, 2009, 04:43:57 PM »
one player would sort out all the right sided problems.



Steven Gerrard

So who would you play where Gerrard has been playing? Who has the guile, the drive, the stamina and a great shot from that position?


Offline Col

  • Shaves his tongue and shares makeup tips. May be a little camp.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,171
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #16 on: March 3, 2009, 04:45:03 PM »
Possibly but then they may not have battered Chelsea first half with him on the pitch.

Swings and roundabouts.

he's started 6 Champions league games in 4 seasons and was left out of the biggest of the lot.

The premise of the whole thread is flawed.

Sorry.

Aside from him having played 18 games in Europe / Inter-Continental games and having started 10 of them, your point is a good one ;)
I don't have to sell my soul... he's already in me.

Offline stewil007

  • Kopite
  • ****
  • Posts: 825
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #17 on: March 3, 2009, 04:45:40 PM »
So who would you play where Gerrard has been playing? Who has the guile, the drive, the stamina and a great shot from that position?



Babel-ayoun

Offline Billy The Kid

  • Out of the closet with a whiet shirt on, but would pay a fiver not to be gay...Would prefer to give his manliness to someone rather than receive theirs especially Amir in another life.
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,199
  • "Alonso!!! And Mission Impossible Is Accomplished"
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #18 on: March 3, 2009, 04:47:56 PM »
Kuyt would be a fantastic squad player.

No offense, but thats a phrase that really fucks me off big time. In fact it should be banned. People hear that phrase and they seem to think of a player who "fills in" for the "big names" in games of "less importance". Its utter verbal wankery at its best. I agree entirely with the opening post, I think Park is a key element to the collective Utd set up.

I have manc supporting mates who dont rate him, and use the dreaded term of "squad player" when referring to him. I just laugh at them and their stuck up ideology of football. But to bring my point round to Kuyt, Even if his number of games were reduced, it should in no way impune his level of importance.




 
“When overtaken by defeat, as you may be many times, remember than mans faith in his own ability is tested many times before he is crowned with final victory. Defeats are nothing more than challenges to keep trying.” – Napoleon Hill.

Offline Bennyo

  • Wasn't arsed about having a custom title, so all he got was this.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,521
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #19 on: March 3, 2009, 04:49:00 PM »
That's the most accurate and insightful piece I've read about Dirk.

Bang on.  :wellin

Offline SquirmyRooter

  • RoomySquirter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,040
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #20 on: March 3, 2009, 04:51:28 PM »
Aside from him having played 18 games in Europe / Inter-Continental games and having started 10 of them, your point is a good one ;)

He's started 6. Been sub another 10.

Hardly evidence for him being called on in every vital CL game as was suggested initially.
Insight, Perspective, Objectivity.

No Delusions Here.

Offline Greg

  • RAWK Statto
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,646
    • http://www.twitter.com/@paintbox_
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #21 on: March 3, 2009, 04:59:16 PM »
Kuyt would be a fantastic squad player.
No offense, but thats a phrase that really fucks me off big time. In fact it should be banned. People hear that phrase and they seem to think of a player who "fills in" for the "big names" in games of "less importance". Its utter verbal wankery at its best.

So what do we call Kuyt then? He's the opposite of a squad player really. Vital for the big games but not so vital for the others?

Offline fernandofowler9

  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,347
  • God said their would be goals and their were goals
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #22 on: March 3, 2009, 04:59:51 PM »
When Manchester United have an important game to play against one of Europe's elite teams, the first name on the teamsheet is one that most people would not expect. It's not Ronaldo or Rooney, or Dimitar Berbatov for that "spark of inspiration (© the English media)" he can bring. It isn't even Rio Ferdinand or his faithful old partner Mr Vidic. It is, in fact, Park Ji-Sung.

The attributes Park brings to the team are obvious to those with a footballing brain, yet no so blinding to the average Joe who watches the odd match down the pub with his mates on a Saturday evening. He's not the most creative player around, he doesn't have a fantastic goalscoring record - although he has notched a fair amount of important goals over the last few years - and the majority of the football-viewing community will more often than not put his inclusion in the side down to injuries or rotation to other players. However, if that were the case, then the fact he starts almost all the 'big' games must be some kind of epic coincidence?

Not so.

He's in the team because he's extremely well disciplined, has a fantastic engine, and will harry, press, and close down the opposition defenders for 90 minutes without once asking for credit or a more free role within the team. He's actually very good technically, but he doesn't have that fear factor - defenders would be relieved to see him starting the game when the other options are Wayne Rooney and Carlos Tevez. He's in the team to do a particular job - help United defend as far up the pitch as possible and restrict the opposition defenders to play percentage balls in behind the full-backs - would you fancy many players to come out on top in a foot race against Patrice Evra or Rafael Da Silva? Even if the opposition do win the ball out in crossable positions, their team will struggle to win the aerial battle in the goal area against Van Der Sar, Ferdinand, and Vidic. Park's inclusion in the team narrow's the oppisitions options when attacking a lot more than you'd think, and that's before considering his willingness to track back and cover, and the speed at which he can do it.

He will create chances, he will score goals... but not as much as some of his more reputable team-mates, which is why he doesn't play when he's not needed - against the smaller teams who simply try to shut up shop when they play against Manchester United. Why bother forcing the opposition defence to play long balls and battle for the small percentages, when they're going to do it anyway? There is no need for such a player playing in such a manner, in such a game.

Which brings us neatly on rather neatly to Dirk Kuyt. Kuyt is slightly more erratic than Park technically - he can be brilliant one week (as he has been for the majority of this season), then very sloppy the next. His best is better than Park's, as is his goalscoring ability, but Park edges it for consistency. Kuyt will never be considered prolific whilst playing for Liverpool, although every time the big, big games come around, a double on Kuyt scoring and Liverpool winning is always a decent bet to make. He's got barrelloads of bottle, and steps up when it counts.

Many people labour the opinion that he is only in the team because of his work-rate and energy - much the same reason Park plays the big games for our neighbours down the East Lancs Road - and whilst there's no denying that he's actually a very good player most of the time, I'm tempted to agree.

We don't need players like Kuyt against Bolton, Stoke, West Brom and Blackburn... in fact I'm not even sure we'd need him against Newcastle or Manchester City - Kuyt's place in the squad should be to perform in the big, big games and let a more technically-gifted, creative, and overall more productive attacker take his place for the rest of the games. A bit like Park Ji-Sung, then.

The reasons I'm labouring the comparison with a bit-part player from Manchester United are self-explanatory once the rose-tinted glasses are removed - we are still quite far from their level, and a lot of that is down to our overall defensive approach to attacking. When teams come to defend against us, we need craft, vision, and something unpredictable - we only have two players who can genuinely offer this, and Kuyt isn't one of them. As it stands, Dirk Kuyt is guaranteed a place in the team 95% of the time, provided he is fit. And that is a major problem.

Now don't get me wrong, I like Kuyt as a player and this is in no way a slight against him, but for 8 out of 10 Premier League games we can do without him - or rather we could, should we have a suitable replacement.

We still need a genuine right winger. Not a converted forward-cum-workhorse. Look again at the Manchester United approach to Premier League football - their manager is from the 'we'll score more than you' school of management, and it shows in both their league position and goal difference columns.

It is time for us to follow their lead. It has been said by many in the past, and it rings very, very true at the time of writing - we are far too cautious and defensive when playing in the Premier League games, and Kuyt's change to a winger, and continual inclusion in the side just emphasise the fact.

Much has been said over the past few months about our lack of money, Rafael Benítez' contract negotiations, the battle for ownership, and every other thing you could possibly think of that should have been kept within the boardroom - but the fact of the matter is that Rafael Benítez is battling to keep his job, and a lot of the players are battling to stay at Liverpool Football Club.

Another fact is that we don't have any money, whichever way you look at it, so from now until the end of the season - in the Premier League at least - Mr Benítez should realistically only have one real option - adopt a much more attacking, gung-ho approach to most games, which in my view will mean either using Dirk Kuyt much further up the pitch, or by giving him the freedom just to attack - he's naturally a centre forward, so let's see what he can really do. In the summer we can (hopefully) think about bringing in some genuine attacking quality out on the right wing... but until then Dirk Kuyt is still out best option out there, but if he is to play there regularly then the whole team must be given the license to attack for 90 minutes at a time.

Apart from the biggest game of all....the Champions League final
Nothing had changed in my routine, except that when I went down the chippy and got me special fried rice, it would be wrapped in a newspaper that had my picture all over it - Robbie Fowler

Offline macca888

  • Macca the Militant Illiterate Gnok. Chief Football Hack aka macca888. Jacqui Smith and Anne Widdecombe, in any order. Or together. He's not fussy. Overdue with Crosby Nick. Recently elevated to status Sir Precious C*nt.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,860
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #23 on: March 3, 2009, 05:00:14 PM »
one player would sort out all the right sided problems.



Steven Gerrard


Can't believe you're talking sense for a change, so for once I'll agree with you!  ;)   Aside from us buying someone along the lines of Maxi Rodriguez, Gerrard would be fantastic on the right, even if, as is reported, he doesn't like playing there. It would free up our limited funds for someone like Aguero to play with Torres too. But I do agree with the OP that Kuyt is always very good in the big games!
Macca resplendent!
A colossus bestriding the
moral high ground as ever.

Offline Col

  • Shaves his tongue and shares makeup tips. May be a little camp.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,171
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #24 on: March 3, 2009, 05:05:02 PM »
He's started 6. Been sub another 10.

Hardly evidence for him being called on in every vital CL game as was suggested initially.

Let's look at the league this season. He started and scored against Chelsea, started against Arsenal,  Everton, Aston Villa, Man City, Chelsea again, Everton again. Throw in starts against Inter and Villareal, then try and tell me he's not United's big-game player.
I don't have to sell my soul... he's already in me.

Offline the_prodigal_s0n

  • Whats occurrin
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,328
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #25 on: March 3, 2009, 05:07:27 PM »
Gerrard moving to the right would be good for the team IMO, but I can't seeing it happening seeing as he hasn't played there in about two years. So I think that until someone new comes in we should rotate Benayoun and Kuyt on the right. They're both very different players so I think it would be a massive benefit to the side if we use Benayoun in games that are going to be played mostly in the opposition half, and Kuyt in the big ones.

It's a shame we don't have a natural right winger though as it really does help to stretch the opposition defence. That's amplified by the fact that Arbeloa isn't really an overlapping full back. I think that in the summer a player who has the ability to stretch play is essential on the right. They don't necessarily have to be an out and out winger, but someone who can at times play as a traditional winger.

Offline SquirmyRooter

  • RoomySquirter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,040
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #26 on: March 3, 2009, 05:07:57 PM »
Let's look at the league this season. He started and scored against Chelsea, started against Arsenal,  Everton, Aston Villa, Man City, Chelsea again, Everton again. Throw in starts against Inter and Villareal, then try and tell me he's not United's big-game player.

When Manchester United have an important game to play against one of Europe's elite teams, the first name on the teamsheet is one that most people would not expect. It's not Ronaldo or Rooney, or Dimitar Berbatov for that "spark of inspiration (© the English media)" he can bring. It isn't even Rio Ferdinand or his faithful old partner Mr Vidic. It is, in fact, Park Ji-Sung

You started by saying he was first name on the team sheet against Europes elite, now your on about City, Villa and Everton.

I can see why you've altered your position but kind of detracts from your original post.

Which was based on a totally false premise.
Insight, Perspective, Objectivity.

No Delusions Here.

Offline Tommy Torres

  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,007
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #27 on: March 3, 2009, 05:10:19 PM »
When Manchester United have an important game to play against one of Europe's elite teams, the first name on the teamsheet is one that most people would not expect. It's not Ronaldo or Rooney, or Dimitar Berbatov for that "spark of inspiration (© the English media)" he can bring. It isn't even Rio Ferdinand or his faithful old partner Mr Vidic. It is, in fact, Park Ji-Sung.

Seriously?? Didn't old whiskey nose say that the hardest decison he ever had to make was to leave him out of the European Cup Final against Chelsea? I would say thats an important game wouldn't you?
There's only one Sergio Torres

Offline SquirmyRooter

  • RoomySquirter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,040
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #28 on: March 3, 2009, 05:10:46 PM »
Has he ever started against, Liverpool for example, i'm assuming we're more of an elite team than most you've mentioned.?

Insight, Perspective, Objectivity.

No Delusions Here.

Online stockdam

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,535
  • Walk on through the wind, Walk on through the rain
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #29 on: March 3, 2009, 05:17:53 PM »
Who says that Park is the first name on the team-sheet for some games?

I do agree though that the hard working players who harry defences and who chase back are vital. They force defenders to get rid of the ball early and if there's a loose ball they are quickly onto it. They also keep up with the play and make themselves available for the short pass.

Is Park better than Kuyt? I don't really know as I don't play against either nor do I see them in training. However I would prefer Kuyt to Park.

Kuyt's passing and first touch are what lets him down. However he is very good at chasing defenders.



#JFT96

Online John C

  • Likes it kinky. Feedback loiterer. mere clutz. Looks like Terry Wogan (dead).
  • RAWK Staff
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 29,663
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #30 on: March 3, 2009, 05:22:15 PM »
It was a decent observation Col. I agree about Kuyt and I've posted a few times that imo we won't push a PL challenge to the end with him getting a consistent run. However, I've also posted that he is a proven big game player. He can be outstanding like against Arsenal away in the CL when we're happy not to concede, then balloons shots over the bar in the PL when goals and points are vital.

Rafa must have a plan for the RM for the beginning of next season and we've got the whole summer transfer threads to guess what it is. Kuyt will be a reasonable back-up to anyone.

Offline Col

  • Shaves his tongue and shares makeup tips. May be a little camp.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,171
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #31 on: March 3, 2009, 05:30:00 PM »
Maybe if the word European was changed to Premier League, you'd understand what I'm getting at better. The point I'm making is that whilst both teams have a similar type of player, the way we use them is completely different. Chelsea, Arsenal, Aston Villa and Everton are all very tough games, as is the Manchester derby.

Those are the kind of games Park is used in.

Whereas we use our equivalent player in every game possible.

In fact, I've edited it to bring the discussion back around to what I was aiming for.



Your point about him not playing as much as I'd though in Europe is a valid one, I thought it was more frequent.
« Last Edit: March 3, 2009, 05:32:26 PM by Col »
I don't have to sell my soul... he's already in me.

Online jooneyisdagloomy

  • Doesn't like having pussy round the house
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,811
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #32 on: March 3, 2009, 05:41:16 PM »
Very good original post and the only bit that I don't agree with on that is the line that says Kuyt's at his technical best is better than Park.  I think Park is a massively under rated player with very very good technique, certainly better than Kuyt at least.  However, that is simply a triviality.  Agree with every other part of it.  
Quote from: Dion Fanning

The chants for Kenny Dalglish that were heard again on Wednesday do not necessarily mean that the fans see him as the saviour. This is not Newcastle, longing for the return of Kevin Keegan. Simply, Dalglish represents everything Hodgson is not and, in fairness, everything Hodgson could or would not hope to be.

Online Kashinoda

  • and in the attic - gets biy wath a luttle halp frum hes friends
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,040
  • ....mmm
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #33 on: March 3, 2009, 05:43:33 PM »
I have a Mancurian friend who moans when park plays and thinks Giggs should every game.

He sums up a Manc to be honest, I actually find my self arguing on behalf of Park... Who is easily comparable to Kuyt...

I actually think Park has played ALOT this season no? Not just against big clubs at all, so kind of disagree with the main purpose of the thread.
:D

Offline sattapaartridge

  • The new 'pete price' of RAWK.
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,213
  • @sattapaal on Twitter
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #34 on: March 3, 2009, 05:46:40 PM »
i agree with Col wholeheartedly.....

...in effect, the lack of playing time for babel, benayoun and even pennant, has cost us dearly against the lower sides where we did not have to play defensively. even trying lucas on the right would have been a good idea.
Quote from: JohnWHenry
We will build and grow from within, buy prudently and cleverly and never again waste resources on inflated transfer fees and unrealistic wages. We have no fear of spending and competing with the very best but we will not overpay for players
Too late eh?

Offline pete price

  • is currently off-air.
  • Kopite
  • ****
  • Posts: 992
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #35 on: March 3, 2009, 05:51:23 PM »
ah the good old - 'look the mancs have got an unfashionable player who doesn't score much and they're top so therefore dirk must be good as well' argument.

brings a tear to the eye.
Andy @ About-turn Re:Kuyt as a winger? Reply on:September 18, 2008 
I said that I could see him getting 10 goals and 10 assists.
erm, you didn't...
Andy @ About-turn Re: Kuyt and Babel Reply on:July 24, 2008
yes, I really believe that it's possible he could get 20 goals in all competitions - and 20 assists doesn't look out of the question either

Offline Col

  • Shaves his tongue and shares makeup tips. May be a little camp.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,171
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #36 on: March 3, 2009, 05:53:03 PM »
pete price
Two feet firmly in the Dirk Kuyt camp.

;D
I don't have to sell my soul... he's already in me.

Offline fowlerisgod96

  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,770
  • The Monster Masch
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #37 on: March 3, 2009, 05:56:12 PM »
even trying lucas on the right would have been a good idea.

Wouldnt.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.

Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.

It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us."

Offline pete price

  • is currently off-air.
  • Kopite
  • ****
  • Posts: 992
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #38 on: March 3, 2009, 05:57:09 PM »
pete price
Two feet firmly in the Dirk Kuyt camp.

;D

col- firmly believes that park gets the nod against ronaldo every time.
Andy @ About-turn Re:Kuyt as a winger? Reply on:September 18, 2008 
I said that I could see him getting 10 goals and 10 assists.
erm, you didn't...
Andy @ About-turn Re: Kuyt and Babel Reply on:July 24, 2008
yes, I really believe that it's possible he could get 20 goals in all competitions - and 20 assists doesn't look out of the question either

Offline fowlermagic

  • Ilittarate
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,608
Re: Park Ji-Sung and our right wing.
« Reply #39 on: March 3, 2009, 05:58:12 PM »
If Torres & SG are our striking partnership for next season then our need for traditional wingers like Riera or even Pennant is absent as no matter how many great crosses we get into the box we do not have the bodies to attack these crosses. Our assist # from out wide / crosses is probably the lowest in the top 4.

Like to see Rafa continue with what he likes best ...attack from straight down the middle with full backs probably providing our chief width. That leads us taking a leaf out of the Dutch philosophy where three attackers / goal scorers with SG behind them is the way forward, our present best example

Babel......Torres.......Kuyt
...............SG

Go with the above as often as possible and then improve on this summer. Still would also like us to upgrade on our traditional wingers by adding a class act as well as Pennant is gone and Riera is only alright. That gives us enough ammo if & when we need to change it up.

I have a simple philosophy: Fill what's empty. Empty what's full. Scratch where it itches. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi5-V75v-6I