Topic: Mersey fans rivalry has reached the gutter!

[FOOT]

erm....no

they sang it once in the first half, people in our end, me included did the same wall pushing gestures back at them. it shut them up

when we scored they were all dooing the gestures (and hillsborough i may add) at us we replied with "1/2 nil to the murderers"

fuck them and all the PC brigade on here

You feel it was justified - fair enough - I'm certainly not going to name call / criticise you or anyone else on here for doing so.

Would I of joined in if I had been there (I only get to home games these days) - possibly, hard to say. Still feel it didn't do any good and feel it will only make things spiral down. Not good for the city IMHO.

[Fat Scouser]

This has got fuck all to do with Mckenzie. The c*nt will spout shite about us regardless of what he hears us sing and discuss on a forum. It's never stopped him in the past has it.

Missed the point again.... Lad, the media has been giving shite to Liverpool the city, LFC and Scousers in general for as long as I can remember and I am 52.
This just gives the c*nts more bullets to fire. And after years of the derby turning nasty, they are now catching on.
So, even if the return at Anfield turned out be all lollipops and rainbows, they'll spread that posion for another 40 years now.

[bigbear]

why should i be ashamed of myself?

I was one at the time of Heysel. Why should i stand there and let some little mongrel c*nt call me a murderer?

behave yourself

Leon. it's not you or me or anybody who was a murderer. Nobody meant to kill anyone and I don't for one second think you or your mates don't have your priorities in order re Hillsbrough.

Personally though, I would find that hard to equate that support with making suffocating gestures and I really find it difficult to justify why any Liverpool fan would want to do those actions.

However, it's your choice not mine. Personally, I don't like it.

[tezmac]

I fellow worker Evertonian  and good friend a reasonable person shocked me one day buy saying we were murderers. This mate is a shop steward who has helped me in many ways and has a profound influence on me..... this shocked  me...and if this is what the more reasonable Evertonions are like god knows what the really bitter ones are like

[anfield]

Chants like this simply don't belong in a football ground or anywhere else.

Chants about how someone looks like don't belong in a football ground or anywhere else. I don't see any difference between that and racist chants because it's all about the same thing. How someone looks.

Chanting about murder isn't backing your team, that is backing your own ego to please yourself.

[FOOT]

Missed the point again.... Lad, the media has been giving shite to Liverpool the city, LFC and Scousers in general for as long as I can remember and I am 52.
This just gives the c*nts more bullets to fire. And after years of the derby turning nasty, they are now catching on.
So, even if the return at Anfield turned out be all lollipops and rainbows, they'll spread that posion for another 40 years now.

and I wouldnt put it passed the c*nts for using this (Oli's piece) as 'evidence' that we started it (irrespective of the shite the mancs and the bitters sing even if we are playing them or not).

[clontarfred]

Well, by liverpool supporters singing the same sort of songs as Everton fans and any other clubs fans, then it makes us just as bad as they are and we cant stand up and say we are better than that. You are better than that by not retaliating. Let the other clubs get wound up by singing those songs and getting pissed off at no response from us.

It just makes them look bad.

Everyone knows it.

So why even get bothered by it.

[conman]

Chants like this simply don't belong in a football ground or anywhere else.

Chants about how someone looks like don't belong in a football ground or anywhere else. I don't see any difference between that and racist chants because it's all about the same thing. How someone looks.

Chanting about murder isn't backing your team, that is backing your own ego to please yourself.

exactly... as much as i follow football, i still cant understand how insensitive crowds can be, be it the houligans, firms, racist chanters, chants like we recieve at everton, chants against utd and munich... disgusting... its a fucking game of sport!! !!

[Fat Scouser]

and I wouldnt put it passed the c*nts for using this (Oli's piece) as 'evidence' that we started it (irrespective of the shite the mancs and the bitters sing even if we are playing them or not).

Do you remember when Ron Atkinson and his Man U got tear gassed as they got off the team bus at Anfield?
Next day in all the papers....
THIS HELL HOLE ANFIELD!
Or the Man U lad with the dart in his nose in the Annie Rd.

Nevermind the shit we put up with at their gaff for years. That is what makes the papers. We will always be hated in the press. It's just the way it is. And if you complain about it, you are just another whinging scouser.

I know we can't win. That's why I hate to see us kicking off on each other. I just wish it was like the auld days - sticking together.

[FOOT]

I fellow worker Evertonian  and good friend a reasonable person shocked me one day buy saying we were murderers. This mate is a shop steward who has helped me in many ways and has a profound influence on me..... this shocked  me...and if this is what the more reasonable Evertonions are like god knows what the really bitter ones are like

I think they just regurgitate the same shit without even thinking what they are saying. I have 1 older brother who was at Heysel and 1 older brother (a blue who was in Rotterdam in 85) who recently referred to reds as murderers. Obviously I pointed out that he was calling his own brother a murderer. We have not spoken since.

[Red Squiggle]

Do you remember when Ron Atkinson and his Man U got tear gassed as they got off the team bus at Anfield?
Next day in all the papers....
THIS HELL HOLE ANFIELD!
Or the Man U lad with the dart in his nose in the Annie Rd.

Nevermind the shit we put up with at their gaff for years. That is what makes the papers. We will always be hated in the press. It's just the way it is. And if you complain about it, you are just another whinging scouser.

I know we can't win. That's why I hate to see us kicking off on each other. I just wish it was like the auld days - sticking together.

1985/86 season the tear gas one yeah? And there was a discussion the other day about the lad with the dart through his nose. It said "MUFC" on it, which to me suggests that it had been thrown by their lot first. Anyway, that's a slight digression.

[clontarfred]

I know we can't win. That's why I hate to see us kicking off on each other. I just wish it was like the auld days - sticking together.

[/quote]

Times change, the game has changed, the owners have changed , the pay cheques have changed. Unavoidable, but your morals, values and ethics dont change. Best not to play the same signing game.

Otherwise we are no better as a club or as individuals.

[Fat Scouser]

Times change, the game has changed, the owners have changed , the pay cheques have changed. Unavoidable, but your morals, values and ethics dont change. Best not to play the same signing game.

Otherwise we are no better as a club or as individuals.

[/quote]Well, we hate Bill Shankly
And we hate St. John
But most of all we hate Big Ron
And we'll hang the kopites one by one on the banks of the royal blue mersey....

Suppose they haven't changed that much eh, just got nastier

[Curva Nord '77]

Juve supporters should be asking UEFA for an apology, not us.

Tell me. I didnt murder anyone at Heysel, neither did anyone I know. What I have I got to say sorry for?

Correct. I was at Heysel and went to watch a game of football. Some pissed up gobshites decided it was OK to have a go at Italians in the next section. A section with virtually no barrier or policing in a run-down shit-hole of a stadium. A stadium UEFA apparently did not even inspect and somehow I've got to live the rest of MY life in guilt?

Bollocks. I am sorry Heysel happened and sorry that 39 people died but as regards guilt - I have none.

I stood watching for two hours while the Juve fans tore the stadium up and then watched us get beat. Got bussed back to Ostend and blamed by Thatcher.

I charged at no-one and killed no-one. 23 years later people who were not there keep telling us "we are all guilty".

We're not. Some were. A very small percentage. Most of them not from Liverpool - but let's not open that cans of worms eh?

[tezmac]

I know we can't win. That's why I hate to see us kicking off on each other. I just wish it was like the auld days - sticking together.



Times change, the game has changed, the owners have changed , the pay cheques have changed. Unavoidable, but your morals, values and ethics dont change. Best not to play the same signing game.

Otherwise we are no better as a club or as individuals.

Spot on mate

[carling1]

i cant see what all the fuss is about. the lescott song isnt bad either.he's an ugly twat and looks like elephant man.

players have taken stick for years,fans do it to put them off their game.

look at the abuse we give the nevilles. i have never heard any lfc fan say it's disgusting. so whats thedifference in calling lescott ugly or the nevilles inbreds?

we call chelsea rent boys,have sung about where lesaux takes it and called cantona a french bastard. all pretty insulting if you ask me,but no one ever complained!

suddenly we're all holier than thou over the 2-0 to the murderers stuff.

those who sang it on saturday,me included,were no way celebrating death. for years evertonians have called us murderers. they blame heysel for the decline of their little club. it's what got them so bloody bitter and twisted. us calling ourselves murderers was nothing more than letting them know that the fans they choose to abuse the most we're celebrating yet another win over that shower of shite

[anfield]

i cant see what all the fuss is about. the lescott song isnt bad either.he's an ugly twat and looks like elephant man.

players have taken stick for years,fans do it to put them off their game.

look at the abuse we give the nevilles. i have never heard any lfc fan say it's disgusting. so whats thedifference in calling lescott ugly or the nevilles inbreds?

we call chelsea rent boys,have sung about where lesaux takes it and called cantona a french bastard. all pretty insulting if you ask me,but no one ever complained!

suddenly we're all holier than thou over the 2-0 to the murderers stuff.

those who sang it on saturday,me included,were no way celebrating death. for years evertonians have called us murderers. they blame heysel for the decline of their little club. it's what got them so bloody bitter and twisted. us calling ourselves murderers was nothing more than letting them know that the fans they choose to abuse the most we're celebrating yet another win over that shower of shite

Why not sing and back the team instead? If you don't care about them then they will look like idiots and you will look like the winner because you would support the team and don't care about idiots that sing sick chants.

[Red number seven]

i tell you something though lad. The group of lads i was with are the same lads that ALWAYS turn out for the HJC, Anne Williams collection nights etc

Our priorities are in the right place

Do you brag about how your crushing gestures shut the Evertonians up at the HJC nights?

Your priorities are a bit inconsistent, in my opinion.

[carling1]

Why not sing and back the team instead? If you don't care about them then they will look like idiots and you will look like the winner because you would support the team and don't care about idiots that sing sick chants.

ffs...you're talking as if we were singing it all the game! it probably got 3 or 4 renditions. if you were there you'd know we were getting behing the team.

oh and in case you hadnt noticed.....ignoring the vile abuse doesnt work. we've tried ignoring the mancs for the best part of 15 years and they give us more abuse now than they ever did. our response....we stand in silence and allow them to verbally bully us!

[Fat Scouser]

Oh well, I'm off to bo bo's.
All my point was, we all know the Derby's been going down the shitter since 1990.
We all know it seems to get nastier every year.
I was shocked and stunned the first time I seen copies of the S*n getting waved at us.
In fact, as far as the Derby was concerened, that was when I realised all that I'd grown up with, and what made our city unique, was dead.
I find that a shame.
But now Oliver Kay and Carra have let the cat out of the bag watch it get lapped up by the gutter press. And we all know, once them bastards get their teeth into it, even if the game turned into a fun loving Woodstock rave knitting circle - it will never get it's reputation back.

[FOOT]

Correct. I was at Heysel and went to watch a game of football. Some pissed up gobshites decided it was OK to have a go at Italians in the next section. A section with virtually no barrier or policing in a run-down shit-hole of a stadium. A stadium UEFA apparently did not even inspect and somehow I've got to live the rest of MY life in guilt?

Bollocks. I am sorry Heysel happened and sorry that 39 people died but as regards guilt - I have none.

I stood watching for two hours while the Juve fans tore the stadium up and then watched us get beat. Got bussed back to Ostend and blamed by Thatcher.

I charged at no-one and killed no-one. 23 years later people who were not there keep telling us "we are all guilty".

We're not. Some were. A very small percentage. Most of them not from Liverpool - but let's not open that cans of worms eh?

Very much like how my brother described it, especially the part about being in the stadium for hours as the Juve fans ripped the place apart to find stuff to chuck (not hard by all accounts).

What are your thoughts on the singing and the subsequent piece in the paper / this thread by the way?

(not trying to provoke one way or the other, just genuinely curious)

[FOOT]

Oh well, I'm off to bo bo's.
All my point was, we all know the Derby's been going down the shitter since 1990.
We all know it seems to get nastier every year.
I was shocked and stunned the first time I seen copies of the S*n getting waved at us.
In fact, as far as the Derby was concerened, that was when I realised all that I'd grown up with, and what made our city unique, was dead.
I find that a shame.
But now Oliver Kay and Carra have let the cat out of the bag watch it get lapped up by the gutter press. And we all know, once them bastards get their teeth into it, even if the game turned into a fun loving Woodstock rave knitting circle - it will never get it's reputation back.

To be fair FS, the thing is you could exchange the word 'derby' for 'football' in general there. But your right, the fact that the derby has all the bile and hatred (for whatever reason) that was once reserved for our friends down the East Lancs is doubly sad considering the unity the people of the city showed during the eighties (Thatcher years, Hillsborough etc).

Although I think the press has taken so long to cotton on to the 'death of the friendly derby', I cant help feeling its going to be (another) stick to beat us with for years to come.

Over reacting? - possibly, but thats how I feel. And in that I'm not just referring to the songs on Saturday, but the general feeling between the 2 sets of supporters (including me and my own brother as mentioned above) over several years. Theres taking the piss - and taking the piss.

(Just read it back and I'm an over sensitive old tart by the sounds of it  ) 

[Red_Rich]

... sad considering the unity the people of the city showed during the eighties (Thatcher years, Hillsborough etc).

Although I think the press has taken so long to cotton on to the 'death of the friendly derby', I cant help feeling its going to be (another) stick to beat us with for years to come.

Wasn't the 'banana throwing incident' at Goodison in the 80's when the supposed rivalry was 'friendly'?  I doubt it was friendly at all really.

[Terry De Niro]

Wasn't the 'banana throwing incident' at Goodison in the 80's when the supposed rivalry was 'friendly'?  I doubt it was friendly at all really.

The biggest one for me, and when I saw a difference in them was after the 77 FA Cup semi when Clive Thomas disallowed a Bryan Hamilton goal. Which to honest was a goal that should have stood.

We then got beat by the Mancs in the final and they must have been elated. But a few days later we brought home the European Cup for the first time.

Can you imagine how they must have felt? 

My oldest brother is a bluenose and I love him dearly. The poor bastard used to take me to Goodison, hoping I'd follow him to the dark side, but there was only one team for me and it certainly wasn't them. To be fair to him he took me to my first Liverpool match and accepted the fact that, that was how it was going to be.

We attended many a Derby together. Sometimes in the Kop, sometimes in the Gwladys street. We even went to the 86 and 89 FA cup finals together.

These days before, during and a week or so later we avoid each other for derbies and that is so sad.

[mikeb58]

The sooner the fuckers get relegated the better, then it's problem solved.

[ashy9]

Ok, my Dad was both at Heysel and the Bullens on Saturday. All those saying that he should have come over and voiced his displeasure at the match are being daft......a nigh on 60yr old man wouldn't particularly want to run the risk of getting into an altercation with a load of young lads who are sure they're in the right. Besides as some have said passions run high at the game, I have participated in the gary neville chants before - and admittedly enjoyed doing so whilst standing in their away end after Murphy ruined them again.

When Heysel occurred I was sat in my house, all decked out in red, ready to enjoy another famous win by the reds. I was only 7 at the time but remember the day well, we had to sit there and wait with bitten fingernails and horrendous worry for my Dad to call and tell us he was ok and had got out alright. Thankfully he was nowhere near the trouble and only realised, as with many others, how bad it was when he left the ground. When I hear the word murderers being chanted at us I take it personally, my Dad is no murderer - however, I can tell you now that Dad did not join in the 2-0 to the murderers chant and neither would I. Just doesn't sit right with me I'm afraid. I just don't see why we have to lower ourselves to that level - and that's not having a go at those who were, it just saddens me that it's come to this.

Oh and all those saying how Evertonians sing songs about us when we're not playing them need to have a look at our own support. I've been at away grounds far from OT and heard the Munich song being sung loudly and with pleasure by some of us. I did ask why and got blank responses - a lot of us are no angels, and both sets of fans and the clubs need to start taking some responsibility and attempting to make things a bit better.

[Mad Men]

can anyone tell me when the press ever mention the manc fans filthy songs about us?
for the record i think the 2-0 song was needless, hardly funny an pretty shite.

Same thing crossed my mind...

[Perkins]

I wasn't at the game, but after reading a few blue websites I have came to the conclusion that the Hillsborough taunts were by a handful of dickheads who were told to pack it in by fellow blues. I would hate to think that the Evertonians would sink so low, as what happened in 1989 shook the entire city.

[Perkins]

I know how bad that sounds (not being at the game), but I am saying that althought the blues love the 'murderrrrers' chant, Hillsborough is seen as a no go area.  This amongst some of the blues I have spoken to as well

[LiverpoolRedRoseFan38]

I know how bad that sounds (not being at the game), but I am saying that althought the blues love the 'murderrrrers' chant, Hillsborough is seen as a no go area.  This amongst some of the blues I have spoken to as well

Yes hillsbrough is a no go to the majority but the song about heysel and Michael shields are just as bad or worse , especially the Michael shields songs its as if there are no everton supporters in jail who have been wrongly accused , lets get it right they sing these song to cover up there own inadequacies  of them and there club blame everyone else except themselves and there inept club they are pathetic .

[Tyler Durden]

There are a growing number of blueshite who take the piss out of what happened in 89 not just 'a few dickheads'. If the song shut them up for a change then good. And using their own bullshit chant against them is not even close to their level and if you think it is then id argue your blind. Might not be to everyones agreement but the people calling our own fans scum want to go and spend a bit of pre-match time with them mongrels and see what they hear.

[Sr Harvest Fiields]

Well after a good nights sleep i've come to the conclusion that it was wrong, very wrong, to sing one nil and two nil to the...terrible decision,and a costly one. Torres should have had his hat-rick ,and we could have sang three nil.

good point

[Mr Mojo Risin']

good point

glad you quoted, i tried edit, and deleted.

[Life]

Hold on. Why are WE being vilified for making light of a disaster. Should Everton be Vilified as well? One sided as always which brings me back to my point that it boils my piss to see these holier than thou shithouses stick the boot in at every oportunity only for our own fans to steam in an kick us as well! Instead of jumping on the media bandwagon how about backing up the lads that in all likelyhood have saved you from getting a fucking good kicking without you even knowing it.

Two things:
We're vilified because we're one of the guilty parties in the death of 39 fans.
I understand what everyone who was there at Heysel is saying about how they shouldn't have to feel guilt - but it's another thing to revel if the result of it, which is the net result of the 'aren't we being ironic' chant.
And as for your last line, it's trotted out a lot.
"These people you're calling c*nts....blah blah blah....life-blood of our support....blah blah....first into any trouble....blah blah blah saved your arse many a time".
They're the same thick c*nts that sing Munich chants, Shipman chants and all other kinds of bollox, who love it when it kicks off, carry HJC badges everywhere without any sense of the double-standards, and the only people they save my arse from is other dickheads like them.  Just because they go all the games doesn't instantly wipe the slate clean of all the things they do that are wrong.  They're either wrong or they're not.   How much effort they put into following the team makes no difference when you look at the morals of it.  It's like saying "well he's a viscious nasty thick fucker, but he loves his mum".  The second half is incidental to the first.  We have some sick and stupid twats that follow us, and for me, there's been more and more of them over the last 5 years or so - to the point that now I pretty much steer cleer off our pubs at away games.

"we've had to put up with it for years" doesn't make singing "2-0 to the murderers" ok, and it doesn't begin to explain why we're doing crushing gestures, which is stupidest thing I've ever heard of.

[only5times]

The reasoning of some reds is "we sang it and it shut them up".  Wasn't it sang at them on the previous derbies at Goodison?  So it didn't work when previously sung at them, because they started singing it on Saturday.

[NickoH]

Wasn't the 'banana throwing incident' at Goodison in the 80's when the supposed rivalry was 'friendly'?  I doubt it was friendly at all really.

I was at the Rush scored 4 derby at Woodison (was it '82).......lower Bullens, near the then Park End away section.....loads of us and it kicked off big style.

[Life]

Yes hillsbrough is a no go to the majority but the song about heysel and Michael shields are just as bad or worse , especially the Michael shields songs its as if there are no everton supporters in jail who have been wrongly accused , lets get it right they sing these song to cover up there own inadequacies  of them and there club blame everyone else except themselves and there inept club they are pathetic .

Singing about Michael Shields is nothing like as bad as singing Hillsborough or Heysel songs - not even in the same ball-park.  The deaths of 96 and 39 football fans through no fault of their own is not remotely comparable to one person imprisoned on very dodgy looking evidence, who will be out one day soon to carry on his life.

[LiverpoolRedRoseFan38]

Wasn't the 'banana throwing incident' at Goodison in the 80's when the supposed rivalry was 'friendly'?  I doubt it was friendly at all really.

yes that was from a few people i know of who threw those bananas at JB it was the FA  cup tie 1988 when ray houghton scored we won 1-0 and these well known everton supporters done this , these people were members of the NF and now are member of the BNP well known if you live by me .

[Life]

I was at the Rush scored 4 derby at Woodison (was it '82).......lower Bullens, near the then Park End away section.....loads of us and it kicked off big style.

That was my first derby, stood in the same place at the tender age of about 13, and I've never really understood why people said it was the friendly derby.  It was kicking off all over the place.

The banana throwing thing I thought was our fans first at Highbury in his first game...but my memory isn't what it was.

[LiverpoolRedRoseFan38]

That was my first derby, stood in the same place at the tender age of about 13, and I've never really understood why people said it was the friendly derby.  It was kicking off all over the place.

The banana throwing thing I thought was our fans first at Highbury in his first game...but my memory isn't what it was.

Yes highbury there was a banana throwing incident by a well known certain bunch of supporters at the time and i think they really regret there actions and were dealt with at the time but the everton one was a total NF fuelled incident , these same so-called everton supporters used to sing the songs and i quote " there ain't no black in the everton attack" and " everton are white " .