Topic: Mersey fans rivalry has reached the gutter!

[shanklyboy]

The Final Word with Oliver Kay

Before kick-off at Goodison Park on Saturday, officials from Everton and Liverpool gathered on the pitch to release 200 purple balloons under a banner that said: “Liverpool Unites”. As most of the balloons stayed in their sack, you wondered whether someone was trying to tell the local newspaper that their campaign to unite red and blue might struggle to get off the ground.

There has been a certain amount of revisionism on Merseyside in recent years about the “myth” of the friendly derby. According to some, the convivial Everton-Liverpool Cup Finals of the 1980s caught them at a moment of weakness and, had it not been that the city was being downtrodden by the government, the two sets of fans would not have stood side by side at Wembley chanting “Merseyside, Merseyside” and “Are you watching, Manchester?”

However superficial that sense of Scouse solidarity may or may not have been at the time, that historical context is inevitable when charting the deterioration of a rivalry that has reached the gutter. On Saturday we had all the usual bile (the chilling “Murderers” chants, the gestures to signify the deaths at Heysel and Hillsborough, the distasteful abuse of Joleon Lescott and of Steven Gerrard’s family) and then, most depressingly of all, the new and hopefully short-lived phenomenon of Liverpool supporters chanting “2-0 to the murderers”.

Jamie Carragher, born an Evertonian, but now the quintessential Liverpudlian, uses his experience on both sides of the divide to make some searing observations on the rivalry in his autobiography. He uses words such as “sinister”, “vile” and “inexcusable”. Heaven only knows what Carragher made of the moment on Saturday when Liverpool supporters stooped lower than a snake’s belly with their own take on the “Murderers” chant. According to some in the away end, it was a post-ironic take on Everton supporters’ perceived obsession with Heysel and its supposed repercussions for their club as they went into decline shortly after English clubs were banned from European competition. Whatever, it sounded truly awful.

There is no humour any more. Where once there was respect and gentle mickey-taking (“He’s fat, he’s s***, he’ s never f***ing fit, Peter Reid”), now there are personal attacks on men such as Gerrard based not on humour but on vicious and unfounded rumour. One less offensive rumour is that the Liverpool captain had a vest declaring “I’m the daddy” to show off in case he scored his 100th goal for the club on Saturday. That would have shut them up, but not, you suspect, for long.

http://timesonline.typepad.com/thegame/2008/09/the-final-word.html

[Paul]

Bit late Oliver

Reached the gutter years ago

[shanklyboy]

It amazes me that since we started singing a few dodgy songs last season;rightly or wrongly, this topic has suddenly come into the media consciousness.
For donkeys years we have had to listen to the bile without a mutter from anyone.

Maybe it's because of the fuss that was made by efc last season after the game at Anfield. They are such sensitive souls after all.
Strangely enough the Lescott song sung by Liverpool fans was mentioned by Kay, but the efc Lescott song was omitted!

[Mad Men]

errr...I have heard worse...

[Mr Mojo Risin']

They sing shit for years and it's fine, we put a bit back to them and we're 'lower than a nats bollox? Oliver you plum, you except ' all the usual bile''  but not this?

[Something Else]

I think there are some things that should not be sung

the carsley one of last year was disturbing and in my opinion too far

Its sad the levels some will go to, but its not just Everton fans, or Liverpool fans, sadly its more and more commen.

[Rossie]

I think the chant was a bit ironic, just a retort.  I wasn't at Woodison on Satdee but some of the chanting at Anfield in March surprised me.  I don't agree with the abusive 'elephant man' chant.  I couldn't hear the bitters chants down the other end that day cos the Kop was in full cry but it seemed to be very bad from what Rafa and the press said after the game.

[GinKop]

and then, most depressingly of all, the new and hopefully short-lived phenomenon of Liverpool supporters chanting “2-0 to the murderers”.

http://timesonline.typepad.com/thegame/2008/09/the-final-word.html

What the hell is that all about?

Even irony should be left alone sometimes. If I read that as it's meant to be taken, there's just no need for it.

[youll never walk alone it]

can anyone tell me when the press ever mention the manc fans filthy songs about us?
for the record i think the 2-0 song was needless, hardly funny an pretty shite.

[GinKop]

can anyone tell me when the press ever mention the manc fans filthy songs about us?
for the record i think the 2-0 song was needless, hardly funny an pretty shite.

That's the other side of the coin. They have been doing it for years and years and I can barely remember anything ever being said about it.

[Mr Mojo Risin']

Utd's without killing anyone. never read any hack having a rant about that. murderers, 96 was not... etc, never read much about that . Surprising.

And what is RAWK'S take on the 1-0 to the  .. song? If you were at the match did ya, or if you weren't would ya?

[Paul]

That's the other side of the coin. They have been doing it for years and years and I can barely remember anything ever being said about it.

Exactly

All the bollocks Fowler got off them for years, nothing said.
All the Michael Shields shite that was popular at Everton away games (announcement over the tannoy)
All the bollocks Gerrard has had off them recently, again nothing said.

And if we want to put the shoe on the other foot, when united started singing "Wheres yer famous munich song", was their some half-baked United "fan" in the Times going on about not stooping to the opposition's level - of course not.

The ironic chant shut them up, same way it did last year (although didn't catch on as much) - something Kay and his pen could have done years ago by publicising it but he decided to stay quiet - so why now?

[GinKop]

Utd's without killing anyone. never read any hack having a rant about that. murderers, 96 was not... etc, never read much about that . Surprising.

And what is RAWK'S take on the 1-0 to the  .. song? If you were at the match did ya, or if you weren't would ya?

You know us, I go the game and just personal opinion is that I wouldn't have joined in on that one.

Probably ask 100 people and get 100 different answers.

[mrsphilthefish]

I knew the minute this was sang back on Saturday that it was going to get grave reviews of us in the press. It's alright for the Mancs et al to sing their vile and tripe at us but whether you agree with it or not, the minute we (LFC fans) do anything back it's made into the worst thing any fan has ever done!

Those that say Evertonians will never be anything less than sympathetic towards LFC over Hillsborough is also talking bollocks......they must have never seen the shits who put their hands across the face. They were also not there on Saturday when there were fellas shouting to us to "die in our sleep and get rid of some more of us"

[cgahan]

the carsley one of last year was disturbing and in my opinion too far

jog my memory

[Taylor_LFC]

Probably ask 100 people and get 100 different answers.

Opinion certainly does seem pretty split down the middle on this one.

To be honest, I am sick of hearing their 'murderers' chants, and I thought this was a boss way to respond. It certainly shut the mongrel twats up anyway.

[NickoH]

You know us, I go the game and just personal opinion is that I wouldn't have joined in on that one.

Same here......

I was at both Heysel and Hillsborough, and any reference (in a bad way) to these in songs don't sit comfortably with me.

[ShyTed]

I'm not sure why "2-0 the the murderers" has made its way into an article when 4 years of the mancs singing "without killing anyone, we won it 2/3 times" has never been mentioned

??

[cornelius]

Utd's without killing anyone. never read any hack having a rant about that. murderers, 96 was not... etc, never read much about that . Surprising.

Exactly

All the bollocks Fowler got off them for years, nothing said.
All the Michael Shields shite that was popular at Everton away games (announcement over the tannoy)
All the bollocks Gerrard has had off them recently, again nothing said.

And if we want to put the shoe on the other foot, when united started singing "Wheres yer famous munich song", was their some half-baked United "fan" in the Times going on about not stooping to the opposition's level - of course not.

The ironic chant shut them up, same way it did last year (although didn't catch on as much) - something Kay and his pen could have done years ago by publicising it but he decided to stay quiet - so why now?

Well said. Nothing more to say really, end of thread. Kay should shut the fuck up and before anyone tries to defend him just re-read this bit and tell me he's not being a snidey c*nt:

now there are personal attacks on men such as Gerrard based not on humour but on vicious and unfounded rumour. One less offensive rumour is that the Liverpool captain had a vest declaring “I’m the daddy” to show off in case he scored his 100th goal for the club on Saturday.

I'll bet he's patting himself on the back for that one. 

[bmac]

I have definately read articles giving out about what United sing...

Singing such songs ourselves only lowers us to their level in my opinion

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I went didn't like the x-0 to the murderers. Wasn't impressed with the 'munich.. munich..' at Saha (I didn't know he was even on the pitch til he popped up in front of us with that shot on goal!) and also didn't join in with the Lescott Elephant man song.

[steelersmark]

Yeah he's a bit late picking up on this really. The end of any civil feelings I had for the blueshite ended when they did the Michael Sheilds song with hand gestures. It got to me because I thought maybe after we played Z cars for Rhys before Toulouse we had gone some way towards repairing the relationship. Instead, fans of the so called people's club respond by deriding one of our own in their own inimitable way.

Sort of gone off the topic a bit, but that's my feelings on the state of the relationship.

[Don Vito Corleone]

I think the point that should be taken on board here is that Oli was surprised and disapointed that some of our own decided to lower themselves to the level of our Blue brethren.

It shouldn't make an iota of difference what either Everton or United have been getting away with for years, nor should we use it an excuse.

Forever in our shadow

Let's try and keep it that way

[magpie]

I hope those who sang it are regretting it now. I didn't join in because it felt uncomfortable straight away and with all the stuff that was happening on the pitch there were better ways of taunting them.
But when you have to sit there and listen to the rubbish that them and the mancs sing game after game, I can see why some people eventually get fed up and have a go back. It's probably the only language some of the morons understand and on Saturday it shut a lot of those idiots in the Park End up straight away.
Let's hope we've heard the end of it though.

[Yer baldy head]

jog my memory

Behave. Just know that it was out of order. Unlike the "2 nill to the murderers" - which has split opinion. No normal person who heard this would think it was okay

[vicgill]

I think the point that should be taken on board here is that Oli was surprised and disapointed that some of our own decided to lower themselves to the level of our Blue brethren.

It shouldn't make an iota of difference what either Everton or United have been getting away with for years, nor should we use it an excuse.

Forever in our shadow

Let's try and keep it that way

very well said mate

[Taylor_LFC]

Oh no, what are we going to do? Our best fans in the world tag will be ruined.

[wideawakewesley]

I've definitely read articles slating other teams for their chants. However, it seems typical of some of our support to try and divert attention to other teams rather than accept that some of our fans are utter scum for some of the things they sing.

At the end of the day, the majority of fans (of all clubs) are good natured and decent people. It's just unfortunate that there are others who aren't. I'd imagine they're singing these songs because they can no longer kick the crap out of each other in the streets.

Wes

[Jockies Car]

Yeah, I'm a murderer. Its all my fault. We should be kicked out of the league cos we are so evil. GET FUCKED.

[Red number seven]

And what is RAWK'S take on the 1-0 to the  .. song? If you were at the match did ya, or if you weren't would ya?

I was, I didn't and I was disgusted. Tried to get 'in yer cup final' going instead.

It's all very well saying 'they started it', but, notwithstanding various mitigating factors, Heysel was and remains a very bad episode about which our supporters should not be light hearted, even if provoked.

It's incredibly disingenuous to have the 'Amicizia' campaign when Juve were in town, only to turn it into a joke when we are beating Everton. Imagine what Juve supporters would think about us singing that song?

We wouldn't do it about Hillsborough.

[Gedo]

Yeah, I'm a murderer. Its all my fault. We should be kicked out of the league cos we are so evil. GET FUCKED.

Is right Jock

[Don Vito Corleone]

Oh no, what are we going to do? Our best fans in the world tag will be ruined.

Anyone who takes any notice of such febrile nonsense needs to have a reality check

Maybe it's just that some people don't appreciate their "fellow reds" behaving like fucking animals

It's hardly beyond the realms of expectation to assume a little common decency and nous, or at least it shouldn't be.

The only people who end up worse off in situations like this is ourselves.

[RAFA - 6 - 19]

I think there are some things that should not be sung

the carsley one of last year was disturbing and in my opinion too far

Its sad the levels some will go to, but its not just Everton fans, or Liverpool fans, sadly its more and more commen.

a quick question on that, did we actually sing it or was it a rumour made up by the bitters? i have never seen an answer on it, cheers

[RAFA - 6 - 19]

if you want abuse you should have herad spurs yesterday about campbell, it was relentless

[dane]

"Heaven only knows what Carragher made of the moment on Saturday when Liverpool supporters stooped lower than a snake’s belly with their own take on the “Murderers” chant. According to some in the away end, it was a post-ironic take on Everton supporters’ perceived obsession with Heysel and its supposed repercussions for their club as they went into decline shortly after English clubs were banned from European competition. Whatever, it sounded truly awful."

What's with 'journalists' asserting their opinion as though it's a fact without even justifying the basis of what they assert... lower than a snake's belly???  Post-ironic???  No, dickhead, it was serious, everyone singing were really murderers... it has nothing to do with taking control and ownership of a word that has been used to attack Liverpool fans does it Ollie my Nigga?

Shock horror, everyone remember to sit quietly and internalise the hatred next time you get wrongfully called a murderer, by no means turn the tables in a scathing rejection of the abuse.

He's fat, he's shyte, where did he learn to write? Ollie Kay, Ollie Kay

or in the alternative...

Can't write, can't play, his last name rhymes with Gay, Ollie Kay, Ollie Kay

[Jockies Car]

I was, I didn't and I was disgusted. Tried to get 'in yer cup final' going instead.

It's all very well saying 'they started it', but, notwithstanding various mitigating factors, Heysel was and remains a very bad episode about which our supporters should not be light hearted, even if provoked.

It's incredibly disingenuous to have the 'Amicizia' campaign when Juve were in town, only to turn it into a joke when we are beating Everton. Imagine what Juve supporters would think about us singing that song?

We wouldn't do it about Hillsborough.

Juve supporters should be asking UEFA for an apology, not us.

Tell me. I didnt murder anyone at Heysel, neither did anyone I know. What I have I got to say sorry for?

[Red number seven]

Juve supporters should be asking UEFA for an apology, not us.

The bereaved of Heysel should be asking for more than apologies from UEFA, the Belgian police, and both sets of supporters, in my opinion. The fact is that, whatever the truth, Heysel was not a laughing matter, and we should be the last club in the world to make a joke of it.

Tell me. I didnt murder anyone at Heysel, neither did anyone I know. What I have I got to say sorry for?

Nothing. Not asking you to apologise, just to respect the dead.

[.adam]

Gedo's shout about the T-shirt is spreading then.

[Walter Sobchak]

I think the point that should be taken on board here is that Oli was surprised and disapointed that some of our own decided to lower themselves to the level of our Blue brethren.

It shouldn't make an iota of difference what either Everton or United have been getting away with for years, nor should we use it an excuse.

Forever in our shadow

Let's try and keep it that way

 

[Jockies Car]

Nothing. Not asking you to apologise, just to respect the dead.

I did, by using an ironic chant to hightlight the fact that the people were killed by incompetance, not murder.