Topic: Liverpool 0-0 Stoke City - Post Game Chat

[Fuzzy_Cat]

I have better evidence,my own eyes,he was offside...end of.

I don't believe you. He wasn't offside.

[ish]

Let's stop all this whining about offside / not offside, shall we? Yes, a goal was disallowed. But really, with all the chances we created, we should have gotten at least another one past them. Never seen so many corners amount to nothing.

[Derzyjudek]

I don't believe you. He wasn't offside.

Not alot i can add then is there.

[deadlybuzz]

Agreed

Our build up was too laboured as often is the case when teams park the bus.

Arsenal ripped Bolton apart with quick, often one touch, passes.  We spend ages in the final third, allowing their defenders to maintain their positions, before deciding to punt a ball into the box. 


If we can do this against Man Utd, why can't we do it against Stoke?  Against teams that come to defend you have to play with momentum and urgency

We prevented Utd from playing, no doubt about that. But Stoke......they weren't exactly trying to get up into our end, they took the chances they were given with no urgency to try and get a goal, if they got a goal it was probably Plan B for them, while they focussed really only on Plan A.

Stoke actually reminded me of the Utd game last December, very familiar in the sense that Utd allowed us to have the ball, they invited us to have a go at goal, then they snatched the winning goal and defended for the rest of the game. The only difference with the game last week was that they scored very early on before we even really got started, it gave us motivation to try to get back into the game, got the goal and then we bossed them all over the pitch, preventing them from trying to get back into the game.

As most are saying we had scored today in the 2nd minute, the goal was disallowed and we had 90 minutes to get another. However, the players played with a layed back approach (as I watched thinking the same) probably thinking the goals would come and roll into the net like no bother. This lazy attitude costs us the win as well as poor finishing imo. If we played with urgency and sharpness (a la Arsenal) we probably would've won comfortably.

[otottottffn]

Forget the offside or not debate.  It was not given.  Nothing is going to change.

As far as I am concerned it was just one of those days, and nothing to get over concerned about.  I don't think we played badly, we just lacked a bit of an edge and a bit of luck on the day. Even when we were winning the league year after year I remember us losing home games to relegated teams like Wolves and Sunderland. Shit happens, move onto the next match.  At least we've got some practice playing against such a style of team in preparation for next weekend.

[Sylveh]

Epic frustration - classic inconsistancy.

[SupaDupaReds]

Epic frustration - classic inconsistancy.

tell me about it. i actually drove home from the match today and managed to laugh it off.

[Vintage Nerd]

we shouldnt need an offside/onside goal to win, we should be beating stoke comfortably regardless.

[Shanks1965]

It was just one of those days.

We've got a date with scrapyard mongrels next week. Onwards and upwards Reds.

Wasn't just one of those days. It was the 4th dissapointing performance so far this season. So far we have won even though we havent played well. Today, that sort of luck ran out. No good getting up for the big games only to drop points against the weaker opposition.

[mulane]

I am still so pissed off at this result.....its just frustrating cause we should have won by loads, i could get over a loss if we deserved it, yes this wasnt a loss, but it really feels like it, we should have taken this advantage we had....argghhh. that stupid decision at the start of the game really set the tone for the match.....but i have a horrible gut feeling that thats it for the rest of the year.

[Shanks1965]

Let's stop all this whining about offside / not offside, shall we? Yes, a goal was disallowed. But really, with all the chances we created, we should have gotten at least another one past them. Never seen so many corners amount to nothing.

Thats because we are SHITE at corners. Get used to it.

[Carra23]

I have better evidence,my own eyes,he was offside...end of.

Screencap from when Gerrard plays the free kick shows Torres marginally offside.
How the ref saw it I don't know but he was offside

[mulane]

Wasn't just one of those days. It was the 4th dissapointing performance so far this season. So far we have won even though we havent played well.T oday, that sort of luck ran out. No good getting up for the big games only to drop points against the weaker opposition.

Thats just shit, i thought we played well today but that we didnt have the luck or concentration for those chances to hit the net. remember that game against villa where apparently we didnt have ONE shot on target. we definitely played better, but couldnt finish.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

we shouldnt need an offside/onside goal to win, we should be beating stoke comfortably regardless.

If football was like that it would be tedious, like basketball.  However, it's beauty is in it's inconsistency.  Newcastle can draw at Old Trafford and then lose at home to Hull. We can beat Man U and then fail to beat Stoke.  Should haves don't have a part to play.  We started the season with some indifferent performances but good results, today I thought we played better (shooting and final ball excepted) but we failed to win. That's football.

[Masch20]

Whats the point of beating the mancs if we drop points this weekend, we should of put stoke aside easily like we did againgst derby last year simply not good enough

[banksybanks]

For the ref to disallow it from where he was (as he apparently told carra at half time) is wrong. I thought he looked in line, and therefore wasn't off, but as people have pointed out on there, it shouldn't have mattered.

However, if it HAD counted, it would have changed the dynamic of the whole game; Stoke couldn't have sat back & defended for the whole match (which , regardless of how well they did it, was quite embarrassing to watch - how depressing must it be to watch your team do that week in, week out?)

8 days ago, I would probably have settled for 4 points from Utd & Stoke; the only difference now is that we've taken points from Utd - and to all those wondering how we beat Utd and drew with Stoke; Utd actually had some players in our half for most of the game, rahter than denfending en-masse.

As everyone knows, even with last seasons disasters against Birmingham, Wigan, Spurs etc, 2 wins against Utd would have won the league for us. We're only 5 games in FFS; will everyone please chill-the-fuck-out!? Utd are in the bottom half of the table at the minute (as they were at this point last season, and they still managed to win the league).

I have said since the end of last season that we won't win it this year, and as long as we keep playing Kuyt on the right wing (yes, he tries hard; yes, he socres some important goals; yes, he even has some good games, but as much as I like the guy, HE'S NOT A RIGHT WINGER). I'd rather see Babel out there with Riera on the left; even Pennant or El Zhar would do better jobs as right wingers. Why not keep kuyt on the bench so we actually have a centre forward to bring on if we need a goal?

By the way, what happened to the expectation that Nemeth or Pacheco would make it to the bench this season? How different it could have been today if a relatively unknown entity with pace & a few tricks could have been brought on with 15mins to go? Yes, I'm disapointed with the result, but we're up there, and there are over 30 games to go; let's not panic.

slightly long-winded rant over.

[buzzing]

Rafa seriously needs to get the players doing extra work in trainging. We are just not creating enough goal scoring chances.

Oh and we are pooh at corners

[banksybanks]

Whats the point of beating the mancs if we drop points this weekend, we should of put stoke aside easily like we did againgst derby last year simply not good enough

it's 3 points less for utd for a start.

Last season, we had Pennant on the right against Derby, and he moved to the left when Babel came on. That gave us 2 speedy wingers, who managed to take Derby apart (I know most people don't think Pennant is up to our standard, but against lower teams who park the proverbial bus, he does a job). The hardest part against teams like that is getting the first goal; then they have to come out & try to attack, which leaves more gaps at the back etc. Today, we had Riera & Kuyt, which leaves us a bit short of pace on the wings.

[TSC]

Let's fuck off the analysis re the 'goal'.  Fucking sad v Stoke at home.

We weren't good enough.

Got away with it somehow in first couple of games.  Then finally played ok v UTD.  Then riding the luck again v Marseilles. 

Have to blame the players - poxy play and finishing.  But Rafa needs to take a look re his obsession with Kuyt.

Is he his lovechild?  No way should he command 90mins in that team every game. 

[billypilgrimnz]

I would start Pennant on the right 100 times over before I'd start Kuyt there again. Kuyt suits a second STRIKERS role, or even that of a hang-around-the-box striker who harries the defense in possession. He is not, nor ever will be, an attacking right midfielder.

[Shanks1965]

Thats just shit, i thought we played well today but that we didnt have the luck or concentration for those chances to hit the net. remember that game against villa where apparently we didnt have ONE shot on target. we definitely played better, but couldnt finish.

We didnt play well at all. If you think that is playing well then we will never agree on what playing well is. We struggled to break a team down determined to defend. Their goal keeper was hardly man of the match and of the 30 (mostly long range) attempts on goalonly 6 were on target. Thats not playing well.

[deadlybuzz]

The next time a team decides to play 10 players in the box, let's just aim for their arms and hands and get a penalty.

[billypilgrimnz]

  But Rafa needs to take a look re his obsession with Kuyt.

Is he his lovechild?  No way should he command 90mins in that team every game. 

It's weird - it's almost as if we win and Rafa sees it as because of Kuyt, and if we draw or lose, it's despite Kuyt.

Our automatic starters: Reina, sure. Carragher, no problem. Gerrard, natch. Torres, well duh. Kuyt? One of these things is not like the others.

[TSC]

As everyone knows, even with last seasons disasters against Birmingham, Wigan, Spurs etc, 2 wins against Utd would have won the league for us.

I seem to be on a quest to right this wrong.  Can everyone please take note.  If we'd beaten UTD home and away last yr we would not have won the league.  We'd have came 3rd, behind Chelsea and Arsenal, and UTD would have finished fourth.

[buzzing]

For the ref to disallow it from where he was (as he apparently told carra at half time) is wrong. I thought he looked in line, and therefore wasn't off, but as people have pointed out on there, it shouldn't have mattered.

However, if it HAD counted, it would have changed the dynamic of the whole game; Stoke couldn't have sat back & defended for the whole match (which , regardless of how well they did it, was quite embarrassing to watch - how depressing must it be to watch your team do that week in, week out?)

8 days ago, I would probably have settled for 4 points from Utd & Stoke; the only difference now is that we've taken points from Utd - and to all those wondering how we beat Utd and drew with Stoke; Utd actually had some players in our half for most of the game, rahter than denfending en-masse.

As everyone knows, even with last seasons disasters against Birmingham, Wigan, Spurs etc, 2 wins against Utd would have won the league for us. We're only 5 games in FFS; will everyone please chill-the-fuck-out!? Utd are in the bottom half of the table at the minute (as they were at this point last season, and they still managed to win the league).

I have said since the end of last season that we won't win it this year, and as long as we keep playing Kuyt on the right wing (yes, he tries hard; yes, he socres some important goals; yes, he even has some good games, but as much as I like the guy, HE'S NOT A RIGHT WINGER). I'd rather see Babel out there with Riera on the left; even Pennant or El Zhar would do better jobs as right wingers. Why not keep kuyt on the bench so we actually have a centre forward to bring on if we need a goal?

By the way, what happened to the expectation that Nemeth or Pacheco would make it to the bench this season? How different it could have been today if a relatively unknown entity with pace & a few tricks could have been brought on with 15mins to go? Yes, I'm disapointed with the result, but we're up there, and there are over 30 games to go; let's not panic.

slightly long-winded rant over.

It is early days but dropped points are dropped points.

If we miss out on 1/2/3/4 spot at the end of the season by a couple of points as well as dropping points to the big teams, it will be more because of failing to beat smaller teams.

Getting a lead early on boosts confidence rather than playing catch up.

Then again, after all the talk from the players after united game, may be this is just the kick up the arse we needed....having said that rafa has already said we "worked hard" so dont know if we're actually going to work on the shit side of our games (failing to create/set pieces)]

[Shanks1965]

The next time a team decides to play 10 players in the box, let's just aim for their arms and hands and get a penalty.

Great idea, lets practice it all week.

[mulane]

We didnt play well at all. If you think that is playing well then we will never agree on what playing well is. We struggled to break a team down determined to defend. Their goal keeper was hardly man of the match and of the 30 (mostly long range) attempts on goalonly 6 were on target. Thats not playing well.

I just dont think that performance was as bad as against middlesboro, sunderland and villa. there was some good passing in this match and they were making good chances but no one could finish off their chances and it seemed to get worse the more they seemed to realise that someone need to score quick as time was running out. it was just frustrating because we really should have won, not basing it on them being a small team, but that we were clearly better.

[banksybanks]

I seem to be on a quest to right this wrong.  Can everyone please take note.  If we'd beaten UTD home and away last yr we would not have won the league.  We'd have came 3rd, behind Chelsea and Arsenal, and UTD would have finished fourth.

consider me righted....

[Carra23]

The next time a team decides to play 10 players in the box, let's just aim for their arms and hands and get a penalty.

We aim for a big net and miss so I don't fancy our chances of hitting smaller targets.

[Shanks1965]

I just dont think that performance was as bad as against middlesboro, sunderland and villa. there was some good passing in this match and they were making good chances but no one could finish off their chances and it seemed to get worse the more they seemed to realise that someone need to score quick as time was running out. it was just frustrating because we really should have won, not basing it on them being a small team, but that we were clearly better.

Mate, I'm not denying you your point of view but any team can pass the ball around in front of a team hell bent on defending. Its passing it in the final third that matters and we didnt have the guile or ability to do that effectively today. Another red shirt or two joining the attack today might have made the difference.

Cast your mind back to last Saturday. In the last couple of minutes United had a corner and their keeper came up for it. Did you see that sort of urgency or risk taking from us today to try to force the win?

[deadlybuzz]

Great idea, lets practice it all week.

Along with our setpieces, crosses and finishing we're on to a winner.

We aim for a big net and miss so I don't fancy our chances of hitting smaller targets.

Good shout.

[bigbear]

I was VERY disappointed Babel did not start on the right today. Real width in him and Riera who can each beat a man and hit the bye line.

Kuyt has his uses but I can't think of many that are needed v Stoke at Anfield.

He wasn't the worst today but he NEVER digs us out the shit when we need a goal in the League.

[kkhaku]

Cast your mind back to last Saturday. In the last couple of minutes United had a corner and their keeper came up for it. Did you see that sort of urgency or risk taking from us today to try to force the win?

To be fair they were trying to force a draw not a win. Very different - if you take that risk when the score is level you risk losing a point. I don't remember any team ever doing that in the league when they weren't down a goal.

[anfield]

Liverpool manager Rafael Benitez was left fuming by the decision that robbed Steven Gerrard of his 100th goal for the club.

In the second minute the England midfielder’s free-kick sailed straight into the Stoke goal but referee Andre Marriner - with a linesman’s flag raised - ruled out the effort.

Television replays showed Dirk Kuyt, who followed the ball into the net, was not in an offside position.

Stoke then mounted a magnificent rearguard action to claw their way to a 0-0 draw.

“The disallowed goal was a key decision. If that had been allowed it would have been a much more open game,” said Benitez.

“I have no idea why the goal was disallowed. The referee told Jamie Carragher that it had been his decision, not the linesman’s.

“But it was a massive mistake. And nobody knows why the effort was ruled out.”

Gerrard, who had taken his goals tally for the club to 99 with a double in Marseille in midweek, was engulfed by celebrating colleagues before Liverpool realised the effort had been ruled out.

Benitez said: “The players worked very hard. They tried everything, but maybe we needed a little more ability in the last third to make use of all that possession and all those shots.”

Stoke boss Tony Pulis admitted his side had been fortunate to escape “with a decision that went our way at Anfield”.

Pulis said: “I was delighted with our performance, my players fought for everything.

“And we had a little luck. We got a decision at Anfield that went our way!

“But I don’t know why that early effort was ruled out. It certainly was not for offside, I have been told by people who have seen the replay that Kuyt was not offside.

“Is that what the referee said? Well, I’m not going to argue with us getting some luck here.”

Pulis preferred to concentrate on the superb defensive effort his players put in despite being dominated by the hosts throughout.

“I would rather recall what a fantastic performance it was by my team,” he added.

“To come to Anfield against a really great team and get a point like that is very pleasing.

“My players fought for everything, they won everything in the air and that is pleasing because the longer it goes at Anfield with you under the cosh, the more chance is that they will finally get one.”

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/09/20/steven-gerrard-robbed-of-100th-liverpool-goal-64375-21864357/

[anfield]

So, the goal was ruled out for something else and not for an offside 

[kkhaku]

I was VERY disappointed Babel did not start on the right today. Real width in him and Riera who can each beat a man and hit the bye line.

Kuyt has his uses but I can't think of many that are needed v Stoke at Anfield.

He wasn't the worst today but he NEVER digs us out the shit when we need a goal in the League.

I don't see why everyone wanted Babel on from the start. He would've offered less than Riera did. His biggest strength is his pace on the ball, which is just about useless when there's 8 big strong defenders in the box. You burst by one or two, you'll just run into the 3rd - as Babel did when he was brought on, and as Torres did countless times.

Yossi would've been the better option for me - but Riera didn't do all that badly other than a couple of over hit crosses.

These kinds of matches are won in only 3 ways. First of all, you need quality deliveries into the area which we didn't have - then you need agressive attacking of the ball when it comes into the area which we didn't have (Keane for some reason refused to go within 6 yards of the goal), and you also need accurate long range shooting, which we definitely didnt have.

You don't win these games with pace or guile. Its simple as basic crossing and shooting technique and hard work in the opposition area. We had neither - and the chances we did generate without technique or hard work were just not finished by strikers who among the best in the world at doing so. Too many things went wrong.

[Carra23]

I was VERY disappointed Babel did not start on the right today. Real width in him and Riera who can each beat a man and hit the bye line.

I have been wondering if we will ever see both Riera & Babel out wide in the same game. Definitely something I would like to see in the very near future

Kuyt has his uses but I can't think of many that are needed v Stoke at Anfield.

He wasn't the worst today but he NEVER digs us out the shit when we need a goal in the League.

ONE occasion springs to mind that is pretty close was his coolness at Goodison with his 90th minute winning penalty.

[scoreinaminute]

For fuck sake, the amount of shit on this thread is ridiculous you'd think we'd just lost the championship with five matches of the season played! Some people need to get a grip really! Yeh it wasn't a great result but don't blow it out of all proportion...as for the lad that said it's the worst game he's ever been to, lucky you ya mug!

[Zelnaga]

I dont see why Babel cant play on the right, hes definatly better than why Kuyt can offer.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

I dont see why Babel cant play on the right, hes definatly better than why Kuyt can offer.

Kuyt was far better than Babel today.