Topic: Steven Gerrard (All-round general discussion)

[Fuzion6]

Zidane, Ronaldinho, Figo, Messi all played out wide. I don't know why Gerrard should have an issue with it.

[redmark]

Zidane, Ronaldinho, Figo, Messi all played out wide. I don't know why Gerrard should have an issue with it.

Gordon Banks played in goal. Your point is...?

[davie addison]

I agree that Gerrard is best in a free role, but he'll never get that sort of freedom playing in a 2 man midfield. I also agree that maybe Rafa does intent on playing Rafa in center midfield, something that does worry me.

Worries me too.

[woof]

The trouble with Gerrard is he's good anywhere with the exception of goalkeeper. Player with his kind of ability can be fitted into any position and you know he'll be the best player on the team. However, I strongly feel Gerrard should be given a more creative role - he's not Alonso who's exceptionally good with long passes but Gerrard is great breaking up defence and of course, scoring winners

[Ozzy_Red]

I want Gerrard to play the "Ronaldo" role, and have Keane in the "Rooney" role. That feeding into Torres would be exceptional!

If Gerrard plays on the right we have more "natural width", which is something everyone on here thinks we need. Gerrard offers width in the same way Ronaldo does for the Scum. Keane will do a very good job behind Torres, he is more of a striker than Gerrard is, this will offer us more goals. Keane isn't gonna play the game he has done recently for Spurs which caused him so much success, on the right, he is a central player.

[Xabier Alonso Olano]

If you wanted natural width you would play JP, El Zhar, Kuyt, Babel from the right. Not SG. Who is a central midfielder.

[Ozzy_Red]

If you wanted natural width you would play JP, El Zhar, Kuyt, Babel from the right. Not SG. Who is a central midfielder.

Well, Gerrard is wasted if hes played as a CM, Keane is wasted as a RM, where do you want us to put Gerrard? On the bench, with JP, El Zhar, Kuyt or Babel on the field, or at RM, in a "Ronaldo" role?

[Xabier Alonso Olano]

Well, Gerrard is wasted if hes played as a CM, Keane is wasted as a RM, where do you want us to put Gerrard? On the bench, with JP, El Zhar, Kuyt or Babel on the field, or at RM, in a "Ronaldo" role?

Who said he's wasted as a CM?

I've never heard that before. Most people think he's wasted from the right, pundits had a field day with that one two seasons ago.

I prefer him in the hole, like where he played last season personally. Where he scored for fun and he and Torres were amazing together. Plus he gives a little extra defensive work and cover than what Keane would.

[BMW]

Who said he's wasted as a CM?

I've never heard that before. Most people think he's wasted from the right, pundits had a field day with that one two seasons ago.

I prefer him in the hole, like where he played last season personally. Where he scored for fun and he and Torres were amazing together. Plus he gives a little extra defensive work and cover than what Keane would.

Wrong - Gerrard is wasted playing a tradition CM.

And IMO and alot of others - the hole/second striker are the only 'central' position Gerrard are suited to.

Also he doesn't NEED to be playing in the hole to link up link up fantastically, he can do it playing from the right... and with Gerrard on the right, Keane playing the hole and Torres upfront, we have 3 quality, goal scoring players that have the abilty to win matches on there own.

Ohh and Gerrard has scored 23 goals playing out on the right... leaving your 'where he scored for fun' statement looking a bit daft.

[Xabier Alonso Olano]

Wrong - Gerrard is wasted playing a tradition CM.

And IMO and alot of others - the hole/second striker are the only 'central' position Gerrard are suited to.

Also he doesn't NEED to be playing in the hole to link up link up fantastically, he can do it playing from the right... and with Gerrard on the right, Keane playing the hole and Torres upfront, we have 3 quality, goal scoring players that have the abilty to win matches on there own.

Ohh and Gerrard has scored 23 goals playing out on the right... leaving your 'where he scored for fun' statement looking a bit daft.

Thank you Rafa.

I praise your knowledge.

He has played in all three positions. All well, I just prefer him Centrally, I did say I liked him in the hole, that's my fav position for him. So you posted something telling me I'm "WRONG" and then agreed with me. Hard to call a matter of opinion "WRONG" too.

How does everyone know that Keane won't work from the right? Has anyone seen him play there for us yet? Everyone has gone on about how it won't work, but without seeing it, I'm not sure that it won't.

Oh and SG doesn't think he is wasted playing CM. His words. Nor does Rafa evidently as that's where he has lined up for us this season. I think I'l Rafa knows a little bit about football so I'l trust his judgement.

[BMW]

Thank you Rafa.

I praise your knowledge.

He has played in all three positions. All well, I just prefer him Centrally, I did say I liked him in the hole, that's my fav position for him. So you posted something telling me I'm "WRONG" and then agreed with me. Hard to call a matter of opinion "WRONG" too.

How does everyone know that Keane won't work from the right? Has anyone seen him play there for us yet? Everyone has gone on about how it won't work, but without seeing it, I'm not sure that it won't.

Oh and SG doesn't think he is wasted playing CM. His words. Nor does Rafa evidently as that's where he has lined up for us this season. I think I'l Rafa knows a little bit about football so I'l trust his judgement.

It is a non issue to be honest, Gerrard should be able to have as much of a impact - weather that be on the right, cutting side or playing in the hole... so weather Gerrard starts on the right or in the hole doesn't matter, he will dift around the pitch through out the match.

[Ozzy_Red]

Gerrard and Keane are going to interchange, so Gerrard will still have the same effect on the match as before. I just want Gerrard on the Right instead of Keane as he will provide more width and cross it occasionally, and I don't think Keane will as he is a STRIKER, and Gerrard can do anything as he is superman.

[Red_Isle_Chap]

Gerrard should play right back. We all know he'd be fucking perfect there.

Seriously though, if you'd asked me a year ago I was in the "Gerrard MUST play in the centre" role. Now, i'm not so sure. Gerrard and Keane are going to occupy the same space if he does which is detrimental to both and the team. With Riera now on the left, i'm thinking that we might see Babel on the right a bit, especially at home. I honestly think Rafa's got a problem now. He knows, when he's fit, Gerrard has to play, but we've just splashed out 20m on keane so he has to play. It's 2 very good players for what's essentially 1 position.

[bigbear]

Gerrard should play right back. We all know he'd be fucking perfect there.

Seriously though, if you'd asked me a year ago I was in the "Gerrard MUST play in the centre" role. Now, i'm not so sure. Gerrard and Keane are going to occupy the same space if he does which is detrimental to both and the team. With Riera now on the left, i'm thinking that we might see Babel on the right a bit, especially at home. I honestly think Rafa's got a problem now. He knows, when he's fit, Gerrard has to play, but we've just splashed out 20m on keane so he has to play. It's 2 very good players for what's essentially 1 position.

I think Gerrard will play his usual 3 or 4 positions but there will be more appearances in the centre of the park as one of 2.

That's fine but if we do that Rafa, let him do it his way ie attacking and breaking when it's on, and not yours. Otherwise, we might as well play Plessis in there instead of him as it's a waste.

[gaz_h]

I think Keane is the key here, if anyone here thinks Rafa has paid 20 million for a player (bearing in mind our chronic lack of funds) that he doesn't think we need then perhaps you don't have much faith in our manager.

I'm only trying to get into Rafa's thinking here, and from watching Gerrard in the position just behind Torres I think the answer lies with Gerrard's ability (or lack of) to recieve the ball back to goal around a congested defence/midfield. Now against the smaller teams this seems to work fine with Gerrard able to get the ball in plenty of space, turn and look for Torres' runs, and I don't think anyone can argue he causes absolute havoc in doing so. But in watching our games against the so called 'top' teams, I can see whenever an anchor man is deployed (or two) and especially with the quality of an essien/makalele or a hargreaves/anderson you can clearly see that Gerrard struggles to get any sort of grip on the game. I'd go as far to say that at times he can look completely anonymous.

Now as regard to Keane, I believe he's been bought specifically to eradicate this problem. I've watched Keane a lot over the last couple of years and I've remarked to my fiancee more than once how I'd love to see him in a Liverpool shirt. Keane has that ability to get the ball back to goal, spin off his marker and create space for other players. Gerrard is at his best when he has the ball when facing the goal, and whether or not Rafa has a plan for him being played in the centre with Mascherano but a bit further advanced, or as part of three attacking midfielders behind Torres I don't know, but what i do know (or think) is that Rafa has seen this 'problem' with Gerrard and gone about sorting it.

Time will tell, and as we've seen with Rafa over the years he will never fail to surprise you.

[killer_heels]

I think Keane is the key here, if anyone here thinks Rafa has paid 20 million for a player (bearing in mind our chronic lack of funds) that he doesn't think we need then perhaps you don't have much faith in our manager.

I'm only trying to get into Rafa's thinking here, and from watching Gerrard in the position just behind Torres I think the answer lies with Gerrard's ability (or lack of) to recieve the ball back to goal around a congested defence/midfield. Now against the smaller teams this seems to work fine with Gerrard able to get the ball in plenty of space, turn and look for Torres' runs, and I don't think anyone can argue he causes absolute havoc in doing so. But in watching our games against the so called 'top' teams, I can see whenever an anchor man is deployed (or two) and especially with the quality of an essien/makalele or a hargreaves/anderson you can clearly see that Gerrard struggles to get any sort of grip on the game. I'd go as far to say that at times he can look completely anonymous.

Now as regard to Keane, I believe he's been bought specifically to eradicate this problem. I've watched Keane a lot over the last couple of years and I've remarked to my fiancee more than once how I'd love to see him in a Liverpool shirt. Keane has that ability to get the ball back to goal, spin off his marker and create space for other players. Gerrard is at his best when he has the ball when facing the goal, and whether or not Rafa has a plan for him being played in the centre with Mascherano but a bit further advanced, or as part of three attacking midfielders behind Torres I don't know, but what i do know (or think) is that Rafa has seen this 'problem' with Gerrard and gone about sorting it.

Time will tell, and as we've seen with Rafa over the years he will never fail to surprise you.

Not sure about that rationale. Cristiano Ronaldo hasnt exactly torn apart some of the top teams in England, unlike the smaller teams, does that mean that you would play him in another position?

The top teams in england are the top teams in european football at the moment, thus its sometimes very difficult to dominate every game, and you can be nullified. I think you have to accept that, so changing a players position is not always the best thing to do.

However, you have to have enough quality in other positions. Far too long only Gerrard carried our genuine threat, now Torres as well. Keane is certainly up there, although the only issue with us signing him is that we are only shifting Gerrard again to accomodate Keane, rather than whats best for the team

[Fordy]

Drop Alonso and play Gerrard in the centre with Mash. Its as simple as that for me.

Babel on the right with Riera on the left.

Dont see why some of you think Alonso should start when the all the 1st team is fit. Mash and Gerrard is the best CM partnership we have. Yes the right becomes an issue but I am sure Babel can do a job there.

[4-2-3-1]

Gerrard and Masch doesn't work, Masch plays if fit, so Gerrard either goes right or behind Torres, Keane was bought to play behind Torres so Gerrard goes right simple.

The fact is he is our best player at RB, CM, RM, or behind the striker. He may kill Benitez if asked to play left so leave that out.

Benitez loves options anyway so he will probably play different positions from game to game. That Gerrard/ Torres partnership last year was immense though and shouldn't be messed with.

[AJ]

Wherever he's told to play, for the good of the team.

[Fordy]

Gerrard and Masch doesn't work, Masch plays if fit, so Gerrard either goes right or behind Torres, Keane was bought to play behind Torres so Gerrard goes right simple.

The fact is he is our best player at RB, CM, RM, or behind the striker. He may kill Benitez if asked to play left so leave that out.

Benitez loves options anyway so he will probably play different positions from game to game. That Gerrard/ Torres partnership last year was immense though and shouldn't be messed with.
[/quote

What do you mean Mash and Gerrard doesnt work? It works better than Mash and Alonso when we have Mash as the more advanced midfielder and Alonso acting as a quater back for the Dallas Cowboys.

[In Fowler we trust]

Wherever he's told to play, for the good of the team.

is the correct answer

[CHOPPER]

Wherever he's told to play, for the good of the team.

Are you saying that Gerrard is a better player in the middle, but Liverpool are a better team with him on the right ?
next people will be saying that Kuyt, Yossi and Babel should be not used out wide
and we lack any true left and right players other than Gerrard and now Riera
chances of that may be slim though.

[gaz_h]

Not sure about that rationale. Cristiano Ronaldo hasnt exactly torn apart some of the top teams in England, unlike the smaller teams, does that mean that you would play him in another position?

The top teams in england are the top teams in european football at the moment, thus its sometimes very difficult to dominate every game, and you can be nullified. I think you have to accept that, so changing a players position is not always the best thing to do.

However, you have to have enough quality in other positions. Far too long only Gerrard carried our genuine threat, now Torres as well. Keane is certainly up there, although the only issue with us signing him is that we are only shifting Gerrard again to accomodate Keane, rather than whats best for the team

I think the arguement should be that we seem to be too pre-occupied with everyone accomodating Gerrard, and not whats best for the team.

We played our best football last season with Gerrard just behind Torres, but that cant always work. I think Rafa has anticipated teams being set up to stifle the link between Gerrard/Torres, so the indroduction of Keane will provide 'possibilities'. People are too obsessed with not moving Gerrard from his 'favourite position' without thinking that in some instances it can have a negative impact on the team. I'm fed up with the team's lack of ideas, it's always 'get the ball to Gerrard and he will find Torres' it just smacks of the Owen/Gerrard scenario to me. We cant just rely on those two to carry a threat for us, so in that respect I agree with you.

Gerrard will play plenty in that role this season don't you worry, but what about when there's a need to shake things up? To give the opposition something else to worry about? What I was talking about was that Gerrard has a weakness in that ability to get a ball around a crowd of players and provide a bit of sublety, a bit of flair. Ok it's not a weakness he's just not that kind of player.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that Rafa has bought Keane to provide space for likes of Gerrard/Torres, maybe even Babel. He may be moved around as the season passes but he's a great player he'll be fine, and is a more intelligent player than he's given credit for. Rafa's job is what's best for the team, so it's not about maximising Gerrard's effectiveness, but as the team as a whole.

[AJ]

I'm saying that where we think he should play, and where he thinks he should play is largely irrelevant.

He's a football player, Rafa is the manager. Gerrard should feel privileged to play for, and captain Liverpool FC and so should play where he's told to play and put his all in to playing that position, whatever it may be.

[AJ]

Fair enough, but on the whole Robbie Keane/Gerrard debate, he isnt told to play on the right for the good of team, he is told to play on the right to accomodate keane

To be honest, that answer wasn't in answer to any other kind of debate, it was just in answer to the thread title, because I haven't read the whole thread.

[nocturnalvin]

I'm saying that where we think he should play, and where he thinks he should play is largely irrelevant.

He's a football player, Rafa is the manager. Gerrard should feel privileged to play for, and captain Liverpool FC and so should play where he's told to play and put his all in to playing that position, whatever it may be.

how did you get to 6000+ posts with a mentaliteee like that.

[killer_heels]

Gerrard can play left back for us and would still outshine our entire team, he is just that good.

I just feel that we SHOULD maximise the effectiveness of our best player, and work the players around him, like the way France did with Zidane.

If we signed another 20 million striker, would you agree if we moved Torres slightly out wide or asked to played a bit deeper, the way Owen had to do when he played with Viduka for newcastle?

[AJ]

how did you get to 6000+ posts with a mentaliteee like that.

Most of my posts aren't in this forum, mainly because of replies like yours.

[Mr Mojo Risin']

if a player plays out of position he loses a good percentage of his worth. no one in this league is good enough to be constantly played out of their usual position.

[4-2-3-1]

I would like to play Gerrard in the same position as last season, attacking cm in a free role

However, like you have said

----------------Gerrard---------Masch

Babel-------------------------------------Riera

--------------Torres-----------Keane

...is fine,  and mainly because there is only one player there who is not natural to his position, which is Babel, unlike recently where we have a number of players playing out of position

We will get done away from home and against good teams at home if Gerrard plays with Masch in the centre, If he just ends up sitting we may as well just stick Lucas or Alonso there. He needs a less restrictive role.

He should ideally be playing were he did last season, which makes the Keane signing so strange.

[AJ]

if a player plays out of position he loses a good percentage of his worth. no one in this league is good enough to be constantly played out of their usual position.

But Gerrard is so talented that nobody is really sure of his natural position. We've seen him play fantastically well on the right, behind the striker, in the middle of the field or in a more defensive role. His problem is that he's got his heart set on playing where he wants to play and if he can't play there he gets in a strop.

[gaz_h]

Gerrard can play left back for us and would still outshine our entire team, he is just that good.

I just feel that we SHOULD maximise the effectiveness of our best player, and work the players around him, like the way France did with Zidane.

If we signed another 20 million striker, would you agree if we moved Torres slightly out wide or asked to played a bit deeper, the way Owen had to do when he played with Viduka for newcastle?

Hang on a minute, only in Zidane's later years was he ever played in the role Gerrard is now occupying. And even then they won fuck all with him playing there. He played his best football for France as an inside left with freedom to find spaces between midfield defence. They won a World Cup and a Euro with that, so asking Gerrard to play on the right with similar duties shouldn't be a problem for him if it's not for arguably the greatest player of his generation.

[4-2-3-1]

Gerrard and Masch doesn't work, Masch plays if fit, so Gerrard either goes right or behind Torres, Keane was bought to play behind Torres so Gerrard goes right simple.

The fact is he is our best player at RB, CM, RM, or behind the striker. He may kill Benitez if asked to play left so leave that out.

Benitez loves options anyway so he will probably play different positions from game to game. That Gerrard/ Torres partnership last year was immense though and shouldn't be messed with.
[/quote

What do you mean Mash and Gerrard doesnt work? It works better than Mash and Alonso when we have Mash as the more advanced midfielder and Alonso acting as a quater back for the Dallas Cowboys.

Just watching them together doesn't look right, I'll get hammered for this but they are not 'technical' players and we need one of Alonso/Lucas to keep things moving.

[Alf]

At Anfield against Man Utd next Saturday. Wherever he plays he'll do a fantastic job for but I'd probably play him to the left or right in the 3 behind 1 at the moment.

[Passmaster Molby]

Gerrard is best suited in attacking areas of the pitch - starting wide on the right in a roaming role is ideal for him. With Riera playing wide left and holding his width, it could be ideal for Gerrard as he will have plenty of space to work in.

Do it Rafa, you know it makes sense.

[Mr Mojo Risin']

But Gerrard is so talented that nobody is really sure of his natural position. We've seen him play fantastically well on the right, behind the striker, in the middle of the field or in a more defensive role. His problem is that he's got his heart set on playing where he wants to play and if he can't play there he gets in a strop.

like i said though mate, constantly. if he was left in the middle , sat between the midfield and the frontmen, we'd have a happy gerrard who'd boss most games.
he knows that playing there he can run things, and i agree with him if he's pissed off at being moved around the park. especially if it's to accomidate other players.

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

Arbleoa isn't good enough, and I don't think Degen is gonna be much better. In January, Rafa needs to get a new RB.

agree
this is what puzzles me a little about rafa.
the lad zabaletta is his sort of player so why didnt he go for him??

[CHOPPER]

if a player plays out of position he loses a good percentage of his worth. no one in this league is good enough to be constantly played out of their usual position.

True, but if that person is the best player in that team for that position then he plyas were he's fuckin well told
and not see his arse like some have mentioned and we have all seen from time to time.

[AJ]

like i said though mate, constantly. if he was left in the middle , sat between the midfield and the frontmen, we'd have a happy gerrard who'd boss most games.
he knows that playing there he can run things, and i agree with him if he's pissed off at being moved around the park. especially if it's to accomidate other players.

He knows how talented he is, he knows he's probably our best player and thus, he should know that on occasions he's going to be asked to do different jobs for us, because he can and because we need him to.

[bigbear]

Personally, I think he needs to be in the middle of the pitch both for his effectiveness and his mentality.

However, there is a way arround this. If he's playing in the 3 behind Torres, let him start in the middle  and tell him and the others to swap it about.

Psychologically I think he'll be happier albeit it'll make no real difference if he starts from the right and swaps to the middle or the left.

Crucially, playing on the right of the 3 and moving is very different from playing on the right of the 4-4-2.

I think in any event you'll see him starting a lot of games at centre mid this year anyway.