Topic: had enough of football?

[2u4rez/7]

This sport has always been a working-class people's game and now the sport has bitten the hand that feeds it.

Amen to that, brother!

[Мерфи]

I think this quote proves you've totally missed the point. It's no surprise to me that you don't object to the way the game has gone, given you're the kind of fan the sport now caters towards. This sport has always been a working-class people's game and now the sport has bitten the hand that feeds it.

So what is working class people?  And that is pretty presumptuous of you . . how do you know what "group" I am a part of?  In many ways, I feel that game has made terrific headway in bringing the game to fans who cannot be there for match days.  So tell me how that is bad?  The way I see it, I'm fucked becuase I can't get into the game - should I be happy with that?  I'll catch the game in any way that I can - to the level that I am satisfied with.  If that is via Sky sports or Setanta, or BBC Radio, or E-ticket, so be it.  But at least I'm not relegated to having to read about it in the papers the next day, and perchance catch a few highlights on the beeb.

As for biting the hand that feeds it . . . While ticket prices have gone up, so has the standard of living - inflation - blah blah blah.  I'd be willing to bet that the total cost of getting to a game nowadays is roughly the same percentage of ones income as it was 20 years ago.  Thus, it has always been a sacrifice of sorts to get tickets.  Plenty of lads nowadays hold down jobs simply to get money enough to get tickets, just like back in the day.  But do you have to struggle by in life to enjoy the game to its fullest?  -  I wonder . . is that what you mean by working class?

So why did you ask about how much I spend on the club each year?  I may be wrong, but I suspect it was because you actually did want to guage how much I sacrifice to have to watch the club. 

[Garstonite]

So why did you ask about how much I spend on the club each year?  I may be wrong, but I suspect it was because you actually did want to guage how much I sacrifice to have to watch the club. 

What I got from your answer is that it is no surprise to me you don't object to the changes in the game, given ticket prices aren't top of your agenda. When you watch a game, the cost of a ticket is naturally secondary to travel expenses etc.

And with regards to your point on the cost of living - the point was made in an article written by Brian Reade that when he was growing up, the cost of going to the game was the same as the cost it was to go to the cinema. Now it costs 5x more. Why? What's the justification? For the club to be able to fund the wages of players who earn more in a week than teachers, doctors, nurses, firemen, policemen etc do in a year. It's an old point, but how can you ignore it?

[kiNki]

i think i recall a thread talking about noel white (i think) blowing his top at a lfc fan for saying we pay the players wages. His point was the money fans bring in thru gate reciepts doesnt go anyway near paying all the players wages. That gets paid from sponsorship/commercial deals. 

Our point is - no matter what way you cut it - supporters are the lifeblood of the game. There would be no sponsorship deals/no merchandise/no commercial enterprises without the fanbase. Premiership football would be no different than park football without the fans.

They tell us that the football offered up is so good - so entertaining that it's as good as any theatre show and that the ticket prices are justified. What they fail to admit is that even andrew lloyd fucking webber doesnt go the theatre twice a week, every week for 9 months of the year, year in year out.

Every year ticket prices increase, every year its higher than the rate of inflation.

20 years ago at 11 years of age i could afford to pay my own way to see a game. 2 quid. i could go with my mates from school and we could stand together. I paid for my own ST with money saved from my birthday/xmas.
I'd watch match of the day and watch the odd live game for the price my mum paid for the tv licence.  i was happy with my lot

unhappy with his lot is my nephew. He cant buy a ticket for himself he has to buy an adult/child ticket - to get an adult/child ticket he'd need a credit card and a fan card. for those reasons there's no way he can stand with his mates from school.  Even if he could afford a st(which he cant) there's no way he can get one cos there are waiting lists.  To see live games now -his mum would have to pay a monthly subscriptions (that are similar to match ticket prices) to sky/setanta or pay monthly line rental for internet and watch dodgy streams. Like me he's not particularly arsed at see'ing wigan v's westbrom on a wet wednesday in february.

He should have the same opportunities to see the games as i did but he doesnt.  He should be the next generation of supporter but he wont be.

This is a fundemental wrong of todays game.

[mrsphilthefish]

Well said kiNki........We're the same age and I see it the same way as you do. We have been exploited in every way in the name of money. Where were all these 30+ year old fans years ago when you could queue up and get in by paying on the gate? The ones now who say they would love to come to the match but can't get a ticket......oh yes I forgot, 2005 hadn't happened then!

[Anfieldite]

Depends on how important you view success on the pitch?

[Мерфи]

i think i recall a thread talking about noel white (i think) blowing his top at a lfc fan for saying we pay the players wages. His point was the money fans bring in thru gate reciepts doesnt go anyway near paying all the players wages. That gets paid from sponsorship/commercial deals. 

Our point is - no matter what way you cut it - supporters are the lifeblood of the game. There would be no sponsorship deals/no merchandise/no commercial enterprises without the fanbase. Premier League football would be no different than park football without the fans.

They tell us that the football offered up is so good - so entertaining that it's as good as any theatre show and that the ticket prices are justified. What they fail to admit is that even andrew lloyd fucking webber doesnt go the theatre twice a week, every week for 9 months of the year, year in year out.

Every year ticket prices increase, every year its higher than the rate of inflation.

20 years ago at 11 years of age i could afford to pay my own way to see a game. 2 quid. i could go with my mates from school and we could stand together. I paid for my own ST with money saved from my birthday/xmas.
I'd watch match of the day and watch the odd live game for the price my mum paid for the tv licence.  i was happy with my lot

unhappy with his lot is my nephew. He cant buy a ticket for himself he has to buy an adult/child ticket - to get an adult/child ticket he'd need a credit card and a fan card. for those reasons there's no way he can stand with his mates from school.  Even if he could afford a st(which he cant) there's no way he can get one cos there are waiting lists.  To see live games now -his mum would have to pay a monthly subscriptions (that are similar to match ticket prices) to sky/setanta or pay monthly line rental for internet and watch dodgy streams. Like me he's not particularly arsed at see'ing wigan v's westbrom on a wet wednesday in february.

He should have the same opportunities to see the games as i did but he doesnt.  He should be the next generation of supporter but he wont be.

This is a fundemental wrong of todays game.

Surely there are many thousands of upset fans - many more than are satisfied -  but are they upset over the price of a ticket, or are they upset because they can't get a ticket . . . . period.  So the problem that the club sees, and an opportunity that companies like sky seizes upon, is providing for those who can't get tickets - a chance to experience the game also.  It is nowhere near as class as getting into the grounds, but what else can you do?  So to me, people are fed up . . with the fact that they can't get tickets.  Every year it is the exact same thing come the knock out stages of Europe - 'It's not fair' - ' I can't get a ticket ' 'The club hasn't done enough for the fans to get tickets '  'our allocations are paltry'.

Every year more and more people can't get tickets . . . because every year more and more people WANT tickets and there are only a finite number.

As for ticket prices - again - it is all relative.  With the massive demand for tickets - I truly believe that for massive clubs, like Liverpool, fans could be charged a shocking price straight from the ticket office, and yet still the stadium would fill to overflowing.  But in reality - the club holds the price down compared to what the open market would bear.  Don't believe me?   . . . how much are people paying for European Nights and games against the likes of Everton, Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea when bought from touts?

kiNki's reflection on what is wrong with today's game extends from the fact that her nephew can't get in to see the game, when 20 years ago she could.  Her nephew can't see the game - and yet somebody else's nephew can, and is.  Seems all a bit heartless and unfair to her . . . but is it really. 

As for me - again - I love the game.  Love playing it - love watching it.  Love the reds - love to be at the game when I can.  And there are some days when I truly can't get enough of it.

[MrGrumpy]

I can safely say I do not give a shit about international fooball, especially the England team.

[2u4rez/7]

kiNki's reflection on what is wrong with today's game extends from the fact that her nephew can't get in to see the game, when 20 years ago she could.  Her nephew can't see the game - and yet somebody else's nephew can, and is.  Seems all a bit heartless and unfair to her . . . but is it really. 

Oh it's about so much more than just that!!!!!!!!

[stroller]

For me it is the general state of football and how the game is financed that is having all the knock on effects people point to e.g. non-genuine ‘glory hunting’ supporters, high ticket prices etc.
This has been stated elsewhere, but for the record it is down to the fact that there is too much money in the game for its own good.

Pre-PL, football was financed largely from the gate receipts and so there was a limit to excessive spending. You could of course pay large transfer fees, but these were based on club success and gate receipts and so limited in that respect. To be successful clubs needed to be managed well and hence the importance of a good manager and backroom staff. This meant clubs such as Notts Forest always had a chance of winning the league

Today gate receipts are not the only major source of revenue and so reliance on this has meant clubs have been able to move further away from grassroots support. They no longer need to attract all the fans they can. The top clubs can easily buy the best players and keep themselves in the top 4. The days of a club coming straight up from the lower league and winning the title are long gone.

This last point highlights the worst knock on effect of the top clubs no longer being reliant on gate receipts. The league now is boring and uncompetitive. You can almost guarantee who the top 4 will be and more easily guarantee results will go a certain way. Many clubs seem to accept that they will be mid table and it is better to ensure their survival rather than go all out for a win. This is not the sort of game I want to be associated with.

I now live near Reading and I would rather go and watch them in the Championship because at least it is going to be competitive and have a better atmosphere as a result. Never mind that it does not cost as much to attend

[Grobbelrevell]

He should have the same opportunities to see the games as i did but he doesnt.  He should be the next generation of supporter but he wont be.

This is a fundemental wrong of todays game.

Great post that and one i agree with totally.

I havent reached the stage yet where i have completely given up on the game. I still (and always will) be as passionate about Liverpool as anyone, will be made up at a win and gutted at a defeat.

Having said that, i have begun asking myself questions i never thought i would.
Whether it is really worth it, with seemingly more and more clubs being used as rich mens playthings.
The cost of being able to watch and support the clubs going through the roof, leaving the real fans, the ones that have played a huge part in making the clubs what they are outside.
The fact that the clubs dont give two hoots about that fact as there will always be some jester hat wearing corporate/tourist only too happy to take their ticket and pay whatever is quoted.
The fact that if i ever have a child they will be extremely lucky if they get to follow the reds live at all.
The fact that the supporters are not given one single bit of consideration by any of the football community, whether that be the clubs, players or the governing bodies. We are a very poor second to the almighty dollar and will be for the foreseeable future.

I just wish we all had the bottle to walk away and make the point that is so very taken for granted. Without the supporters the clubs would be nothing. I honestly pray for the day that happens and the bubble finally bursts. Maybe then the peoples game will return to the people and the suits will find something else to bleed dry.

[SuperSub77]

Those of us who remember how football used to be are hurt the most by the modern game, most 'modern' fans don't know any different.

The game and experience we love is definately dying. Don't get me wrong, after the 80's and some tragic events, something had to give and a change in some way was needed. The sad thing is that this opportunity for change was seized by the money man to make the game appeal to a different demographic, people with money or available credit, not your average working class person. This has lead to greater demands and prices right throughout the chain, and a completely different breed of 'supporter'.

Football is bound to implode. We as LFC were always a unique breed of supporter, with our history et al. This is attractive to many modern 'fan' who want to be part of 'the family' , in a lot of cases due to our reputation. The problem is that modern fans don't contribute as much as the old days and we we are getting too diluted, so the very experience that fans come to Anfield for is dying because of them. Football has become a greedy beast that needs feeding.

I don't go to the match as much as in my youth. When I do go I notice the changes and it breaks my fuckin heart. Everything from the pubs before the game, the atmosphere right down to the nazi stewards.

Away games as well are a million miles away from the old days, travelling support aint what it used to be.  I had the piss taken out of me last year at an away game (in our end) by some fuckers from Peterborough or somewhere for having a HJC sticker. Too many things hurt when I go to the match, I feel more dissappointment than enjoyment.

[Grobbelrevell]

I had the piss taken out of me last year at an away game (in our end) by some fuckers from Peterborough or somewhere for having a HJC sticker.

You serious? Its ignorant idiots like that that need educating (and a slap).

[2u4rez/7]

You serious? Its ignorant idiots like that that need educating (and a slap).

Print out the long version of HFD from www.hfdinfo.com on thick paper, roll it up, beat them about the head with it. When they regain consciousness they can have a bloody good read whilst waiting for the headache to subside......

[No666]

One morning this week I woke up and thought, yeah I've had enough. And you come on RAWK and some of the threads make you think, yeah, definitely had enough.
Then tonight I went to my partner's work do and a work colleague from Manc was being provocative and graceless about tomorrow's match and I ended up shouting 'piss off you manc bastard,' before being extracted by (luckily amused) partner, and realise I obviously haven't had enough, because LFC is in my heart.

(BTW Nice suggestion 24/7)

[La Vecchia Magpie]

Whilst I was born into the Sky generation, I don't class myself as part of it. I can't tell you how many conversations I have had with United fans trying to tell them the Champions League and the European Cup are the same thing but thats another story. What annoys me about Football is the coverage, or better yet the people covering it. For the last five years I have been told by Richard Keys and sky sports news etc that signing 'world class' players is good for the premiership. Ok, please tell me how Chelsea signing players such as Deco, Drogba, Sheva etc is good for a team such as Wigan, Boro or Fulham. I really hate this 'great for the premiership' lark. C.Ronaldo staying at United is great for the Premiership, Lampard's contract extension is great for the Premiership. Is it fuck, it just means two more greedy bastards are staying.

ITV has gotten to the point where I'll have to mute the telly in order to watch it sooner rather than later. I caught the England highlights last night (by chance rather than choice because I am a self confessed Italy fan) and Clive Tyldesley was a fucking disgrace. Now I know you think his Man Utd bias is disgusting and it is to be fair, but this reached new heights. All night long he had been banging on about some Croat player who was diving (pardon my ignorance but alot of the players sound the same so I can't tell you who it was) anyway, he had mentioned this about three or four times. Then, later on in the play that lead to Croatias goal, there was a high foot incident somewhere near the halfway line with one of Croatias players raising their boot when John Terry went to head the ball clear. There was a good 8 inches between the boot and Terry's head, yet Terry went down like a sack of potatoes. Did Clive Tyldesley mention this? Did he shite, it must of slipped his eye because all he went on about was how the Croatian player raised his foot! 

The English presenters are so ignorant its beyond reallity. In Italy the presenters there are quite respectful of the English game, the premierleague in particular. Yet here, for years, we have been told that Serie A and the Azzuri are boring and defensive etc, over looking the fact that in the last three or so years, there have been more goals in Serie A than the Premier League. The ignorance surrounding Italian football is bullshit. Italy are tied with Spain and English clubs for European cup wins and have won more world cups than any other European nation and yet they have a lower standard than the mighty Premier League?

Don't get me started on players. All that needs to be said has been but I'll add that when players like Paolo Maldini and Alessandro Del Piero hang up their boots it will be a sad day for the sport. Players such as those two are role models of the highest order, true pro's and there are sadly not enough of those players left.

[2u4rez/7]

The English presenters are so ignorant its beyond reallity.

Oh my god you should hear the Swedish gimp babblerators..........if they had their heads any further up Chelsea/ManU arseholes then they could brush Terry's/Ronaldo's/etc's teeth from the inside. Whenever we are given the choice we switch to English commentary (cos then at least it's our own language and we can tune it out - we're too used now from living here to automatically translating what the Swedes say, it's twice as annoying then!) - if that fails we switch to Finnish just to have background noise.
The one thing though we can't stand is how "commentators" lick arse - in whatever language.

[brendanbrady]

A lot of it has to do with money, but what turns me off is the information overload.  This goes for all sports, NHL, MLB, NFL, as well.  I don't care about what these guys are doing off the field (drugs, hookers, etc).  I just want to enjoy the game.  But the networks try to force it down your throat.  "If you don't know every detail about everything, you are not a true supporter," is the message.  That's nonsense.   I find it impossible to follow all the transfer rumours, and injury reports, arrest records, who's dating who, so I don't. I don't read the papers anymore, because it is all made up anyway, and I don't watch sportscenter.

I have been much happier since I let all of that outside nonsense go, and just watch the games for what they are, a game.  Still sucks I can't go to as many games as I'd like because I don't have the money, but it is what it is.  I would love to fight the networks and bring things back to their essence, but I know that is not going to happen, their is way too much money and everyone has an agenda and everything has been exploited and there is no going back.  So I go to the pub on the weekend or watch the game on TV, cheer my heart out for the Reds, have a few beers and a few laughs.  Call me apathetic, but I can't be pissed about things like this anymore, life is too short.

[CRAZY HORSE EMLYN]

Football is bound to implode. We as LFC were always a unique breed of supporter, with our history et al. This is attractive to many modern 'fan' who want to be part of 'the family' , in a lot of cases due to our reputation. The problem is that modern fans don't contribute as much as the old days and we we are getting too diluted, so the very experience that fans come to Anfield for is dying because of them. Football has become a greedy beast that needs feeding.

Sat in a random Annie Rd seat for the boro game, I was sat beside folk who just didn't seem to be having a good time. One guy spent the entire match behind enormous white Louis Vuitton shades and didn't move. Folk leaving for a pie after 30mins. Folk leaving the GAME after 75mins. I had no-one to jump around with when Stevie cracked that last minute winner with me (sob)... well I tried but I almost broke this poor fellas neck when I jumped on him! To top it off the roof was leaking some horrible brown liquid and ruined this lads white away top! The most pervasive noise I heard all afternoon was a moaning fucker two rows down who didn't shut up in his criticism of rafa and the team...

I sat there wondering, how is this sustainable? Why are these people here, and more importantly, will they still be here next game, next month, next season...

I thought: They must be here because they heard this is the best football experience in the world, they've been told about the songs, the noise, the wit etc., or they've seen CL games on TV and assumed every day at Anfield was like that. But if they don't get what they paid for, and of course simultaneously contribute to the black hole, then surely we'll come to a point soon where that endless gravy train comes grinding to a halt... no-one wants to come. I think that day is closer than anyone realises... but I tell you this, I hope you lot who do give a fuck about this club ARE still there when those who just came for the 'experience' have moved on to something that actually gets them off their feet of a Saturday, because we need to preserve what's special about this club for us and our kids and grandkids...

[The Road End]

I'm off to one of the pubs in huyton tomorrow to watch the man utd game and then i'm shooting upto prescot to watch afc liverpool.

Thats the way my footie is for this season,the club aren't getting my money,and watching afc is like a breath of fresh air.

You can sit or stand where you want,with your family and mates,have a bevy for less than 2 quid and the lads on the pitch give it everything from start to finish.

Just like anfield years ago.

[kiNki]

kiNki's reflection on what is wrong with today's game extends from the fact that her nephew can't get in to see the game, when 20 years ago she could.  Her nephew can't see the game - and yet somebody else's nephew can, and is.  Seems all a bit heartless and unfair to her . . . but is it really. 

i'd laugh if you think my feelings about the game stem purely from the fact my nephew cant afford to go.  I'd also laugh, if it was at all funny, at the thought you think that other kids(even the ones with parents with money) are taking the place of my nephew.
 
i used to go with and stand among thousands of kids and teenagers on the kop. Do you realise just how few children/teenagers attend matches today in comparison?

Even the adult/child section(just over a thosand adult/child specs in the kop have been shifted to the upper anny road.

Back in the day, kids in the kop would stand near the front - cos they could be close to their hereos, the goal and could see. From their position the traditions would quite literally be passed down to them.

Putting them in the heart of the kop was wrong - trying to shift them to the upper anny even worse...and most scandelous of all is charging them adult prices if they cant sit in the non adult/child areas.

I'm glad for you that you love football and cant get enough of it. I'm sure part of what you love is what you see served up by the crowds, the passion, the songs, the humour and the familiarity of tradition.

we love the game too, we've lived thru the massive changes and feel the full effect of them, we accepted that football had to change in many respects but we want to preserve what was and is good about it and ensure that the opportunities we had are available for future generations. Once we give up the ghost then who takes up the baton to preserve whats good, who has the knowledge and experience, who's gonna fight to ensure kids are charged kids prices? 

you?

how far does football have to be removed from your personal viewing before you complain.

are you waiting til game 39 - liverpool v la galaxy -  live in tokoyo at 4am with liverpool in the pink pockerdot kit with advertising breaks every 15minutes before you question where the game is gone?

sighhh i really dont know why i'm bothering trying to explain the great points and posts in the thread seem thoroughly beyond your comprehension.

[Мерфи]

i'd laugh if you think my feelings about the game stem purely from the fact my nephew cant afford to go.  I'd also laugh, if it was at all funny, at the thought you think that other kids(even the ones with parents with money) are taking the place of my nephew.
 
i used to go with and stand among thousands of kids and teenagers on the kop. Do you realise just how few children/teenagers attend matches today in comparison?

Even the adult/child section(just over a thosand adult/child specs in the kop have been shifted to the upper anny road.

Back in the day, kids in the kop would stand near the front - cos they could be close to their hereos, the goal and could see. From their position the traditions would quite literally be passed down to them.

Putting them in the heart of the kop was wrong - trying to shift them to the upper anny even worse...and most scandelous of all is charging them adult prices if they cant sit in the non adult/child areas.

I'm glad for you that you love football and cant get enough of it. I'm sure part of what you love is what you see served up by the crowds, the passion, the songs, the humour and the familiarity of tradition.

we love the game too, we've lived thru the massive changes and feel the full effect of them, we accepted that football had to change in many respects but we want to preserve what was and is good about it and ensure that the opportunities we had are available for future generations. Once we give up the ghost then who takes up the baton to preserve whats good, who has the knowledge and experience, who's gonna fight to ensure kids are charged kids prices? 

you?

how far does football have to be removed from your personal viewing before you complain.

are you waiting til game 39 - liverpool v la galaxy -  live in tokoyo at 4am with liverpool in the pink pockerdot kit with advertising breaks every 15minutes before you question where the game is gone?

sighhh i really dont know why i'm bothering trying to explain the great points and posts in the thread seem thoroughly beyond your comprehension.

You've got me a bit confused. . . where did I mention that you had to feel good about giving up good traditions?  Where did I mention that all of the changes made by the club have been the right ones?  Where was it that I conceeded the best thing for the game was to make sure it gets to hell safely in a handbasket?  Don't put words in my mouth by pushing this debate out to extremes.  I'm not so assinine to think all is well.  But I'm not near so bent to think that football is crumbling down around us.  Things were never so good as we remember so long ago, and they are never so bad as we think they are right now.  And please don't paint me with this brush that I don't give a dam and could care less about the next generation.  Football is still played in almost every place in the country that has a big enough plot.  I was tickled pink to see my son take to it, after having two daughters who are bored to tears when its on the tube.  I've was even more delighted to see that at 2, he was willing to sit with me for half and hour and cheer the reds.  Was brilliant today when Babel scored, he got up and danced around with me. 

If you don't feel the need to respond, suit yourself, though I'm hardly as thick as you would have me to be.  I see the good and bad posts.  I just happen to be of a different opinion that you are.  Times have changed period . . . Hell, I remember being out and about till all hours of the evening as a young boy, and being free to head up to the park and over to my friends houses past dark.  Now parents spend more time worrying about sicko's and the possibilities of what could happen.  Companies have to spend millions preventing accidents that could happen.  Airlines screen passengers who have been waiting in long queues when just 10 years ago getting on a flight was a breeze.  Things change . . . If there are ways to restore a bit of what once was (safe standing, expanded stadium capacities so more can see the game live, group seatings which cater to like fans) great.  If not - you get on with it.  The state of football is not ideal - but neither was it 30 years ago, considering the trials and tribulation that we have undergone over those years.  The crack down on hooliganism changed the sport, stadium disasters changed the sport, massive demand for a seat in the stands has changed the sport.  money and corruption has and will change the sport.  Yet football is still important, still fun, and you make due with what you have.

[TSC]

Every year more and more people can't get tickets . . . because every year more and more people WANT tickets and there are only a finite number.

As for ticket prices - again - it is all relative.  With the massive demand for tickets - I truly believe that for massive clubs, like Liverpool, fans could be charged a shocking price straight from the ticket office, and yet still the stadium would fill to overflowing.  But in reality - the club holds the price down compared to what the open market would bear.  Don't believe me?   . . . how much are people paying for European Nights and games against the likes of Everton, Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea when bought from touts?

kiNki's reflection on what is wrong with today's game extends from the fact that her nephew can't get in to see the game, when 20 years ago she could.  Her nephew can't see the game - and yet somebody else's nephew can, and is.  Seems all a bit heartless and unfair to her . . . but is it really. 

The touts make most of the money from individuals who travel from far and wide.  The key point is that ticket prices are beyond what the local fan base can afford to an extent.  Supply and demand is your argument.   Fine.  But that invariably dilutes the atmosphere etc, as more and more attending games are of the day tripper variety, and not the hard core local fanbase.  Don't get me wrong, a lot of good supporters come from outside the city, but I mean the core who traditionally will turn up home to Crewe next week, and who would attend all the aways.  They make the atmosphere.  Not the day tripper, although the latter is preferable from a revenue generation point of view.

My season ticket went up twice the rate of inflation last year and this year.  I work in the public sector and pay rises are pegged at below inflation.  Is that sustainable?

But as you say if I gave it up someone will have it.  I happen to believe it will go into the 'corporate pool', to enable our esteemed owners to maximise revenue from my seat.

It's more than that anyway.  Getting bollacked by our own stewards for daring to stand when an attack is building.  Micro analysis of everything on sky/setanta.  Poor fucks potentially losing Season tickets 'cos caught having a crafty drag of a ciggie in the bogs (I'd love to see someone challenge this ruling in court 'cos to my knowledge a football stadium is not an enclosed public place, unless it has a roof, but that's another story).  The 'chelseaism' of football just grinds you down at the end of the day.

[woof]

When every Premier League team is owned by some billionaire, income from gates will count for little. Why sell a few tickets when you can broadcast it across to globe to literally billions of people. Big big money. Yes, capitalism usually consumes the soul

[Squidge]

to be honest started to lose its appeal for me at the start of the premiership.

the starting of consistant diving, being unable to tackle properly and the introduction of player power.

far too commercial these days and football is a product just not the same anymore