Topic: Pride.

[thredworm]

Bear with me because I've had a little bit to drink this evening, but it's in these times when people often bare their soul for others to see.

I have this evening been out for a few drinks with some friends, one of which, unfortunately, is a manc. We started off discussing the chances of different nations in this summer's Euro 2008 Championships, but as with all conversations with mancs the subject quickly turned into a war of words regarding the various players who play for both our clubs.

I'll admit that there were quite a few times during said argument that he had some arguments which I couldn't answer, mostly around the 10 premier league titles to zero since it's inception. There were times when I simply had no answer to various points, and I had to concede that once again next season the mancs had a better chance of winning silverware than we did.

I sat and thought about it for a while from that point on, staring into the bottom of my pint glass. It was upsetting for a while because I so badly wanted to point to why we're better set for the next few years than they are, but just couldn't find reasons to say so.

Suddenly I had an epiphany. It occured to me that somewhere along the line we have forgotten something. We've become so obsessed with winning that we've forgotten what sets us apart from other fans, at least I think I have. There is a kinship amongst Liverpool fans which I don't think any other club can match. There is a passion and a love that I've never seen amongst other fans of other clubs. They never mention anything like it. To them it is all about winning. Eleven men in their colours which could be any men whatsoever as long as it gets the job done. There is no affinity, no genuine respect for who has put that shirt on and tried their very best for the cause. Just winning, just trophies.

Now I'm not saying that trophies aren't what matters at the end of each season, but fuck me if I haven't forgotten amongst my desperation for the league title just what goes into this club day after day. The HJC, the RTK, SOS, Share Liverpool, every fucking thing which gets done is done so for the benefit of US, Liverpool FC. It's not all about trophies, it's about THIS FUCKING CLUB and who we are.

I suddenly hit back with a retort to my manc friend. "Pride, passion, support. Things you can't even imagine surpassing us for. The endless fight for justice for those who died at Hillsborough, and the fact that we never stop fighting for that cause, no matter how futile it may sometimes seem. Full houses full of roaring fans whether there's a trophy at the end of it or not. Banners, flags, scarves, YNWA. You can't take that away, you can't ever beat it, you can't ever boast that you have more, you can't ever stop us winning on that front". He laughed and spat back the usual vitriolic response of how "support hasn't won you anything". In some ways he was right, but does that mean that it's not worth anything?

No. It means that that's the only response a rival fan can have. It means that there is no answer to this argument. They know we are right. They know there is nothing to compare. Sometimes I think that football has died. The working man's game. The game we all used to know and love, where support was unquestionable, and I mean for all players. I myself have become too wrapped up in worrying about who plays well, who should be shipped out, who we need to sign, who doesn't deserve to wear the shirt. I need to take a step back away from the narrow minded vision of winning sometimes and realise that there is much more to being a fan than just hoping we win.

I love this club with all my heart. I have recently found myself in a situation where I am very much alone. It was all very sudden and I don't know how it all happened. But throughout that time all I have had as a constant is my football club. Something which can never leave me, never judge me, always be there and always provide me with joy at least a few times during every year. Right now I am thankful for that.

Pride is a strange thing. It can kick you in the ass and make you look like a prick. It can get you into trouble and it can hurt like you never dreamed. But still, pride is the one thing which I can never let go of, and I know that it will never leave me. I am fucking proud of this club, the players, the manager and my fellow fans. It's not always about getting what we want, who we want, the trophies we want. Sometimes, like myself, you need to take a step back and realise that it is an absolute priviledge to be a fan of this club. I have done so tonight.

[felix.]

Never looked at it that way before, thanks for that...

[Phoenix06]

Guess what mate?

I've thought about it for weeks. My Manc friend claims he's so die hard, yet at work, you can tell he's just really bothered about friends and drink and being cool, and the Man Utd games are only for entertainment.

Yet for me, Liverpool is a huge part of me, my life, and has shaped me as a person. I have become such a believer in hard work, having a superb work ethic and always fighting, and I've only ever had that since I've read about Dirk Kuyt. People at work have noticed a change in me.

Also, I am so much more conservative. When I win things, I don't shout out, or make myself known, but I am conservative and logical, analysing what I've done, and that's all because of Rafael Benitez. It makes sense. I feel so proud of Benitez now. Back in December, when everything was going bad, even up to February, and he was favourite to get the sack, he rode it out, and now look, Mark Huges, Sven Goran Eriksson, Sam Allardyce, Jose Mpurinho, Avram Grant, Martin Jol have all changed jobs, been sacked or left, but Benitez was the favourtie, and he survived the pressure because of the values and principles he follows and believes in. I use this philosophy, and my word do you feel good about it.

Then Hillsborough. People never really know what a tragedy feels like when they see it on the news, but whenever I see any tragedy, I immediately refer to Hillsborough, and I can feel some sort of pain, even though I didn't lose anyone at Hillsborough.

That's a fantastic post mate and it has really cheered me up. I know exactly what it means to feel alone, being someone who feels so passionately about Liverpool, and really feels for the club. It is such a constant in my life. When Man Utd won the double, my Manc friend used it as a bragging tool, but had no real emotion. It was sickening, because I would've been in tears, and just full of pride, like I was in 2005 and at a young age in 1984! It's pride, and passion.

I love this club, and even the missus knows that.

Thank you for cheering me up. Quality post, and I'll remember it for a long time.

[elsombreroman]

Spot on really there mate but in an ideal world we will have both. I remember that feeling after Istanbul soon after the ecstacy stalled a few days later... I was thinking relief as if to say to the glory fans and everyone else what the fuck do you have? we have fans atmosphere loyalty respect honour and the european cup - things that man utd didn't have at the time, the only thing they have gained and it hurts me to say it is the european cup. When they won it I booked a week for me and the missus in the lakes and instructed my own media ban on newspapers and TV etc.

But we are liverpool

[Gengus]

Great post.  I couldn't agree more.  The pride that we all feel and the passion with which we all follow Liverpool Football Club is incomparble.  The Mancs could on win trophies for years to come, but they will never be able to honestly speak about the great pride and sense of belonging that they experience from supporting their clubs.

I've been thinking a lot recently about why Liverpool means so much to me? And, to keep things short, the conclusion i got to was that i know Liverpool will be the one part of my life that will always be there. The one part that i will always feel the same pride, awe, and devotion towards.  The one part that i know will never let me down.  And, i imagine, most off us are the same?

[xavidub]

Its a privilege and an honour to support Liverpool. The titles come and go, but the specialness of the club remains regardless. I just don't get that impression from any other fans of the big clubs. Imo the likes of everton and villa and tottenham fans are more like us than mancs gooners or pensioners. Except that we win things

[kopiteste]

Liverpool is pretty much my life. I haven't quite been myself since the season has ended, and it is the same every summer. I am disappointed with a season without silverware, but i am still proud of where we did get in the CL. And i am hopeful of another. I love our fans, and i love what liverpool means. We are a family, well, as a majority. No other team in world can boast such a thing. Great read mate.

[rushyman]

Guess what mate?

I've thought about it for weeks. My Manc friend claims he's so die hard, yet at work, you can tell he's just really bothered about friends and drink and being cool, and the Man Utd games are only for entertainment.

Got one too.

So many of them made that way. Chelsea even worse.

The most bugging thing of all is when these ones wind you up about the mancs winning it really hurts you. But theyve forgotten it in the next breath they take

[deadlybuzz]

Great post mate. This is LFC in a nutshell. The fans and the supporters, the manager, the players; we all want to achieve the same things together. Winning trophies matters to us all and even if we don't, there's still the pride and passion within ourselves to see the positives of a trophy-less season. Something most teams still don't have.

[Gengus]

There is an almost unqiue ideology, or even philosophy, that we all believe in with regard to supporting Liverpool?  I've thought about this quite alot, espeically with the whole integrity of football being brought more and more into question recently for issues were all too familiar with, and began to try and identify some of the keys themes and tenets that underpin our ideology.

I've got my ideas, but i'd prefer to hear what others think are some of the key values that underpin the our ideology?

I suppose we could take Pride as a given....

[Franck Le Poof]

I have only lived to see this Premier League that has seen the Mancs win it ten times. My one dream is to see LFC back in its glory days, conquering absolutely every team laid in its path. Every dig opposition fans take, every old retired phrase the press and Andy Gray continually spout out, every heart break that goes along with losses in the big games like a CL final and a semi, every time I take a look at the league table and we sit far from the top for whatever reasons, and every time I have to listen to people give me crap about supporting a team that gained my love so, it is all worth going through every time for those moments of unequaled glory and success.

[Daniel Cabbaggio]

class post.

[Redshadow]

We are Liverpool! I'm proud of it
(all I can think of after reading this thread).

[ScouseBurgh]

Outstanding post and I totally agree....this club forms a foundation for so much of what is important to me......

.......but where has this unique identity and passion come from?  What are its origins?  Can anyone comment on that?

Certainly there is something unique about the city of Liverpool.....but if the LFC magic it  mostly about the origins of its fans then how come this is an LFC thing and not also an EFC thing?

What makes it unique?
 

[minusone]

Great post, love the sentiment.

[Exiled109er]

Bill Shankly summed it up for me...

'The socialism I believe in is everyone working for each other, everyone having a share of the rewards. It's the way I see football, the way I see life.'

'Some people believe football is a matter of life and death... I can assure you it is much, much more important than that.'

"A lot of football success is in the mind. You must believe that you are the best and then make sure that you are."

'If a player is not interfering with play or seeking to gain an advantage, then he should be.'

[the_prodigal_s0n]

Excellent original post.

I have only lived to see this Premier League that has seen the Mancs win it ten times. My one dream is to see LFC back in its glory days, conquering absolutely every team laid in its path. Every dig opposition fans take, every old retired phrase the press and Andy Gray continually spout out, every heart break that goes along with losses in the big games like a CL final and a semi, every time I take a look at the league table and we sit far from the top for whatever reasons, and every time I have to listen to people give me crap about supporting a team that gained my love so, it is all worth going through every time for those moments of unequaled glory and success.

I also agree with this post. It's something I've been thinking about a lot recently. I too have yet to see us win a league, or indeed even properly challenge for one, but the next one that we win is going to mean an awful lot more than any title that the mancs have won recently. Right now it doesn't mean that much to the ones that I know because they're so used to seeing it (god, I hate saying that) but when we win it it's going to mean the world to every generation of Liverpool fans. I personally - as will practically everyone here - will be going on a week long bender once it happens. Nothing will eclipse it, not even Istanbul as it will have a much longer legacy IMO. The outpour of feelings and emotions is going to be an immense experience.

[kevmck]

excellent post mate.. really puts things in perspective.. and to be honest, makes me feel a bit daft for how despondent i've been lately..

we are liverpool, and no amount of nearly's, might have beens and snide comments from glory hunters can take that away

[theCanadian]

Fantastic post.

[ste669]

may be you're right i have friends who support united who didn't even watch the final too busy drinking or trying to get their leg over,if it had been us playing i would have moved heaven and earth just to be there,

[ThisIsMickey]

It's not always about getting what we want, who we want, the trophies we want. Sometimes, like myself, you need to take a step back and realise that it is an absolute priviledge to be a fan of this club. I have done so tonight.

Class post and I love this part. My new signature hope you don't mind

[red_ong]

Great post redworm.  I told friends (Reds and mancs) many times that I would be happy with Liverpool not winning any more major trophies as long as we stay true to our values and our people instead of trading all this for 10 to 15 years of dominance and being over run by prawn munchers.  It may sound a bit extreme to some of you but that's how much I value the culture and identity of Liverpool FC.

We are more than a club winning cups...just ask the Moenchangladbach fans or the olympiacos fans or many other great clubs with which our fans have made such good connections with. 

Let me give you an example of why we are unique scouseburgh.  When I was in Athens last year on the day of the final, I was sharing a drink with two scousers while pondering whether to try our luck at the stadium for tickets.  Then I got a phone call from a friend saying another mutual friend Chris got arrested at the stadium for holding a fake ticket, asking me to be careful of what I may buy. 

When I told the two Reds about this, they seriously wanted to go to the stadium to bail Chris out!  Chris is Canadian, I'm Singaporean...imagine the distances involved between where we grew up.  We'd never met before but it mattered little to the two scousers Patch and Paul...that is Liverpool FC and it made me so proud that we looked out for each other.

So what if the media (as well as here in Singapore) and other fools slate Liverpool, our players and fans?  I don't give a f*ck.  It's good that the fools don't get it, we're better off without them.  So what if Paisley doesn't get a knighthood?  Like my wife said, what's matters is that WE value him...the people whom he worked for and inspired, he and his family should always know that.

manure catching up with us or even winning more than us?!  So?  They can win everything there is and they'll still have nothing we have: the character of players, fans, manager and just as importantly: VALUES of Liverpool FC. 

We can and should win more than them, don't get me wrong...I want number 19 desperately.  I want it so we gain success, so my fellow Reds can cry cheer and scream with joy, so Rafa the staff and players get what they deserve.  I don't want it because we have to stay ahead of the mancs, they can crow all they want but we all know they are just hollow valueless fools.

So don't feel bad redworm just because a manc started gobbing off about winning the league...life's too short for such crap! 

Remember the 18 leagues, 77, 78, 81, 84 and 05, my God Istanbul is so sweet even till this day!!!  Remember the 96! 

We are Liverpool!  Come on!

[coachpotato]

That's a top post.
I always find it hard to quantify what sets Liverpool fans apart from others.
Simply put, others can't ever understand because they aren't Liverpool fans.
There's something intangible about supporting the Reds, but it becomes a reality when we have a European tie, or we play Everton or United, it's then that the parts combine to become a whole.
We have a belonging for our club that's unique, when Hicks & Gillet said they were the custodians of our club they were talking bollocks, WE are the custodians of the Club and nobody else and that's how it's been since before I started supporting the reds and will continue after I can't support the Reds.

[MikaelLFC]

It's not often that I get speechless, but now I don't know what to say but agree. Top post!
Back when I first started playing football in '96, I also learned to love Liverpool. I loved, and love even more now, absolutely everything that has to do with  this club, the fans, the players and of course the coach. Liverpool FC, there is no word such as this that brings me more pride and goose-bumps every time I hear it. Even at days where I've been upset or done something bad that I've strongly wished haven't happened, that the day was a total waste, even at the bad days I've always had the comfort of knowing Liverpool will have a game in the weekend or the same day. I wait days before the game, always excited, and then when the game starts, it's me, the fans, and Liverpool FC - the club we all love.
At the bad days, just someone mentioning "Liverpool" - a mere whisper is enough - I always get get in a good mood and walk with pride. I forget what was bad and realize it's not the ending of the world. Something that always has been there, and always will be there, is Liverpool FC. At the end of the day, something that always remains, is Liverpool FC.
Since I'm from Finland it's not the easiest to go to Anfield and watch every game as I'd love to do, so it's usually the couch at home or the pub where I watch the game. Only once have I had the priviledge of attending a game, it was last season home against Tottenham (ended 2-2 unfortunately, but a late goal by Torres made the day), and before the game we went to the pub called "The Park" which is just outside Anfield and the atmosphere was incredible. My goodness me. The whole trip to Liverpool and the game, ah, I truly can't find any words of how amazing that truly was. I'm definitely coming again in the spring.
Best wishes from Finland,
YNWA

[manifest]

 

[Dan86]

Top post, couldn't agree more.

Imo the likes of everton and villa and tottenham fans are more like us than mancs gooners or pensioners.

Have to disagree with the Villa bit, lived in Brum for ten yrs & went to see us every season at Villa Park, mostly in one of the home stands. Never have I come across fans that moan about their own club as much as this shower or 40,000 people make so little noise apart from a murmur monotone Brummie complaining. Birmingham City, they have some passion & pride.

[Vinay]

Trophies are what count mate.

[Jfoz18]

That was a fantastic post, this is how ive felt for a long time. And my brother is the same, one game nearly sums this up for me when we played barca at home in the champions league afew years ago and we got beat 1-0. The atmosphere was unbelivable, how many other teams would have experienced that having just been beaten 1-0, even though i know we got through to the next stage, but even so most other supporters wouldnt be like that. Pride is what makes us different and thats why we will always be different.

[Jacketh]

This is so true, ive lost friend because i wont say bad things about liverpool...

Whenever we lose i always stick up for the lads... even when we got drubbed but united his year, next day in college i wore my red shirt with pride i got a lot of stick but hey im proud of being a reds fan no matter what the result.

[Party Phil]

I agree with the original poster to an extent - in terms of the people who come on here, the fans in the public eye (SoS, RTK etc) and probably your mates that you go to the match with or even watch in the pub with - we have a lot of hugely passionate supporters with a genuine love for the club and who are a real source of pride and inspiration.

But you're fooling yourself if you think that it's anything like a majority who are like that, or that other clubs don't have genuine die-hard fans. I think you're looking at it with rose tinted glasses - I have mates who claim to be big Liverpool fans, who know a bare minimum about the history of the club, are probably unaware that the HJC / HFSG / RTK / SoS / ShareLiverpoolFC even exist and even one lad from Crosby I have seen read the Sun. There's a lot of people out there who are fans and not much more - very passionate about the team's success but completely uninterested in off the field issues. People who will buy the shirt from the club shop this season blissfully unaware of any boycott; people who will actually accept a manc telling them that we've never won the 'Premiership' as a fact; people who will watch the game if they get the chance but might have to give it a miss as the missus wants to go to Ikea; people who will dismiss out of hand mates suggesting that we should be boycotting the Sun or shirt sales because it seems irrelevant or detrimental to us winning the 'Premiership' or 'Champions League' or signing Ronaldinho or whoever.

And that's the people who I consider to be fans, who genuinely do have a love for the club but for whom there's a lot more pressing issues. I don't really want to go into the number of whoppers that go around telling people that they're Liverpool fans but actually couldn't name half the squad, or the tits that come to Anfield on a day trip with their cameras out and mistake Benayoun for Paddy Berger.

There is a good part of our fanbase that we can be rightly proud of but there's also vast numbers of ignorant fools out there that perhaps you're not as exposed to as some of us.

Sorry to piss on your bonfire

[Baz76]

"Liverpool football Club exists to win trophies"

Although your post would be a tear jerking moment for most, the above statement breeds ultimate pride.

[Phoenix06]

I agree with the original poster to an extent - in terms of the people who come on here, the fans in the public eye (SoS, RTK etc) and probably your mates that you go to the match with or even watch in the pub with - we have a lot of hugely passionate supporters with a genuine love for the club and who are a real source of pride and inspiration.

But you're fooling yourself if you think that it's anything like a majority who are like that, or that other clubs don't have genuine die-hard fans. I think you're looking at it with rose tinted glasses - I have mates who claim to be big Liverpool fans, who know a bare minimum about the history of the club, are probably unaware that the HJC / HFSG / RTK / SoS / ShareLiverpoolFC even exist and even one lad from Crosby I have seen read the Sun. There's a lot of people out there who are fans and not much more - very passionate about the team's success but completely uninterested in off the field issues. People who will buy the shirt from the club shop this season blissfully unaware of any boycott; people who will actually accept a manc telling them that we've never won the 'Premier League' as a fact; people who will watch the game if they get the chance but might have to give it a miss as the missus wants to go to Ikea; people who will dismiss out of hand mates suggesting that we should be boycotting the Sun or shirt sales because it seems irrelevant or detrimental to us winning the 'Premier League' or 'Champions League' or signing Ronaldinho or whoever.

And that's the people who I consider to be fans, who genuinely do have a love for the club but for whom there's a lot more pressing issues. I don't really want to go into the number of whoppers that go around telling people that they're Liverpool fans but actually couldn't name half the squad, or the tits that come to Anfield on a day trip with their cameras out and mistake Benayoun for Paddy Berger.

There is a good part of our fanbase that we can be rightly proud of but there's also vast numbers of ignorant fools out there that perhaps you're not as exposed to as some of us.

Sorry to piss on your bonfire

I'm baffled by that.

I have a mate who considers himself to be a massive Liverpool fan, yet couldn't give a shit about the reserves or U18's and also couldn't care less about what Hicks and Gillett have done.

He reads The S*n and even said "oh there's nothing we can really do about Hillsborough, get over it". It pisses me off when people think he is a bigger fan than me at times.

I have shed tears for this club, they are my "constant". Whenever I have nothing to do, I basically think back to Liverpool games, thinking of tactics and possible players. I am part of the boycotting crew because the values of the club have GONE!

So those fans that don't really care about that, but only about what happens on the pitch are "real fans"?? NO!

It shows that they are narrow minded and not too fussed about the values and traditions of the club. In fact, if they're putting their heads in the sand about it, then they don't even know the true values of the club. I know Liverpool fans who don't even care about the ownership, and about players signed, because they only believe what is written in the papers.

That shows to me they are part timers.

So sorry to piss on YOUR bonfire!

[Robotforaday]

I agree with the original poster to an extent - in terms of the people who come on here, the fans in the public eye (SoS, RTK etc) and probably your mates that you go to the match with or even watch in the pub with - we have a lot of hugely passionate supporters with a genuine love for the club and who are a real source of pride and inspiration.

But you're fooling yourself if you think that it's anything like a majority who are like that, or that other clubs don't have genuine die-hard fans. I think you're looking at it with rose tinted glasses - I have mates who claim to be big Liverpool fans, who know a bare minimum about the history of the club, are probably unaware that the HJC / HFSG / RTK / SoS / ShareLiverpoolFC even exist and even one lad from Crosby I have seen read the Sun. There's a lot of people out there who are fans and not much more - very passionate about the team's success but completely uninterested in off the field issues. People who will buy the shirt from the club shop this season blissfully unaware of any boycott; people who will actually accept a manc telling them that we've never won the 'Premier League' as a fact; people who will watch the game if they get the chance but might have to give it a miss as the missus wants to go to Ikea; people who will dismiss out of hand mates suggesting that we should be boycotting the Sun or shirt sales because it seems irrelevant or detrimental to us winning the 'Premier League' or 'Champions League' or signing Ronaldinho or whoever.

Okay, what you say here is fair enough (if a little bit mean considering the passionate nature of this thread), BUT for me we have to ask "what can we do about this"? Ok, you might say, there are so many eejits out there, you're never going to make a difference. But I think if Liverpool fans actually have the passion that the original poster is referring to (and we do) we should be evangelical about that passion, we should be able to sweep all of these whoppers up into a frenzied wave of love for the club.

I have had mates who were borderline supporters, or just didn't really watch the footy at all, and girlfriends from lands where football is not the main sport, and they've ended up getting really into it. And they've become very knowledgeable about the club. While I'd like to pretend this was all because of what a great lad I am, I know it's not. What's happened is that they've caught the bug of being a passionate Liverpool fan off me, because it is contagious. The idea, the passion, it sells itself. So I say to everyone, don't be discouraged, keep on being a huge fan, keep obsessing, keep expressing your love for the club. And you'll find that other people will fall in love with it too. Let's paint this world red, yard by yard, mile by mile.

[kapil08]

Bear with me because I've had a little bit to drink this evening, but it's in these times when people often bare their soul for others to see.

I have this evening been out for a few drinks with some friends, one of which, unfortunately, is a manc. We started off discussing the chances of different nations in this summer's Euro 2008 Championships, but as with all conversations with mancs the subject quickly turned into a war of words regarding the various players who play for both our clubs.

I'll admit that there were quite a few times during said argument that he had some arguments which I couldn't answer, mostly around the 10 premier league titles to zero since it's inception. There were times when I simply had no answer to various points, and I had to concede that once again next season the mancs had a better chance of winning silverware than we did.

I sat and thought about it for a while from that point on, staring into the bottom of my pint glass. It was upsetting for a while because I so badly wanted to point to why we're better set for the next few years than they are, but just couldn't find reasons to say so.

Suddenly I had an epiphany. It occured to me that somewhere along the line we have forgotten something. We've become so obsessed with winning that we've forgotten what sets us apart from other fans, at least I think I have. There is a kinship amongst Liverpool fans which I don't think any other club can match. There is a passion and a love that I've never seen amongst other fans of other clubs. They never mention anything like it. To them it is all about winning. Eleven men in their colours which could be any men whatsoever as long as it gets the job done. There is no affinity, no genuine respect for who has put that shirt on and tried their very best for the cause. Just winning, just trophies.

Now I'm not saying that trophies aren't what matters at the end of each season, but fuck me if I haven't forgotten amongst my desperation for the league title just what goes into this club day after day. The HJC, the RTK, SOS, Share Liverpool, every fucking thing which gets done is done so for the benefit of US, Liverpool FC. It's not all about trophies, it's about THIS FUCKING CLUB and who we are.

I suddenly hit back with a retort to my manc friend. "Pride, passion, support. Things you can't even imagine surpassing us for. The endless fight for justice for those who died at Hillsborough, and the fact that we never stop fighting for that cause, no matter how futile it may sometimes seem. Full houses full of roaring fans whether there's a trophy at the end of it or not. Banners, flags, scarves, YNWA. You can't take that away, you can't ever beat it, you can't ever boast that you have more, you can't ever stop us winning on that front". He laughed and spat back the usual vitriolic response of how "support hasn't won you anything". In some ways he was right, but does that mean that it's not worth anything?

No. It means that that's the only response a rival fan can have. It means that there is no answer to this argument. They know we are right. They know there is nothing to compare. Sometimes I think that football has died. The working man's game. The game we all used to know and love, where support was unquestionable, and I mean for all players. I myself have become too wrapped up in worrying about who plays well, who should be shipped out, who we need to sign, who doesn't deserve to wear the shirt. I need to take a step back away from the narrow minded vision of winning sometimes and realise that there is much more to being a fan than just hoping we win.

I love this club with all my heart. I have recently found myself in a situation where I am very much alone. It was all very sudden and I don't know how it all happened. But throughout that time all I have had as a constant is my football club. Something which can never leave me, never judge me, always be there and always provide me with joy at least a few times during every year. Right now I am thankful for that.

Pride is a strange thing. It can kick you in the ass and make you look like a prick. It can get you into trouble and it can hurt like you never dreamed. But still, pride is the one thing which I can never let go of, and I know that it will never leave me. I am fucking proud of this club, the players, the manager and my fellow fans. It's not always about getting what we want, who we want, the trophies we want. Sometimes, like myself, you need to take a step back and realise that it is an absolute priviledge to be a fan of this club. I have done so tonight.

first thing is the supporters. i feel it's this thread that sums up things like this. all of us on here saying more or less the same thing. similar feelings, thoughts, despite hardly knowing or ever having seeing each other. i think this ..... bond...is the main source of pride. knowing that there will ALWAYS be something that wont ever leave you stranded, wont judge you, wont need any emotion, but will give you many of them..is a feeling that cant be described.

redworm mate, talk about being left all alone and having only the club as a source of some happiness. very well acquaitened with that feeling.

LFC is much more than a football club. the lives of many of it's supporters run parallel is what i've learnt from here. brilliant thread! love everything about this club. all you unknown yet so known fellow reds, the passion......is unbeleivable.

A Red from Oman.

[Bobsackamano]

Good post, there are other routes our club can go down other than selling our soul for money

Barca and the other fan owned clubs are who we should follow, even if this means we win f**k all for years

Better still why not go down the Athletic Bilbao route (all basque players - never relegated) that's another club with pride, a club that means more to their fans that any trophy

[lillyred]

Bear with me because I've had a little bit to drink this evening, but it's in these times when people often bare their soul for others to see.

I have this evening been out for a few drinks with some friends, one of which, unfortunately, is a manc. We started off discussing the chances of different nations in this summer's Euro 2008 Championships, but as with all conversations with mancs the subject quickly turned into a war of words regarding the various players who play for both our clubs.

I'll admit that there were quite a few times during said argument that he had some arguments which I couldn't answer, mostly around the 10 premier league titles to zero since it's inception. There were times when I simply had no answer to various points, and I had to concede that once again next season the mancs had a better chance of winning silverware than we did.

I sat and thought about it for a while from that point on, staring into the bottom of my pint glass. It was upsetting for a while because I so badly wanted to point to why we're better set for the next few years than they are, but just couldn't find reasons to say so.

Suddenly I had an epiphany. It occured to me that somewhere along the line we have forgotten something. We've become so obsessed with winning that we've forgotten what sets us apart from other fans, at least I think I have. There is a kinship amongst Liverpool fans which I don't think any other club can match. There is a passion and a love that I've never seen amongst other fans of other clubs. They never mention anything like it. To them it is all about winning. Eleven men in their colours which could be any men whatsoever as long as it gets the job done. There is no affinity, no genuine respect for who has put that shirt on and tried their very best for the cause. Just winning, just trophies.

Now I'm not saying that trophies aren't what matters at the end of each season, but fuck me if I haven't forgotten amongst my desperation for the league title just what goes into this club day after day. The HJC, the RTK, SOS, Share Liverpool, every fucking thing which gets done is done so for the benefit of US, Liverpool FC. It's not all about trophies, it's about THIS FUCKING CLUB and who we are.

I suddenly hit back with a retort to my manc friend. "Pride, passion, support. Things you can't even imagine surpassing us for. The endless fight for justice for those who died at Hillsborough, and the fact that we never stop fighting for that cause, no matter how futile it may sometimes seem. Full houses full of roaring fans whether there's a trophy at the end of it or not. Banners, flags, scarves, YNWA. You can't take that away, you can't ever beat it, you can't ever boast that you have more, you can't ever stop us winning on that front". He laughed and spat back the usual vitriolic response of how "support hasn't won you anything". In some ways he was right, but does that mean that it's not worth anything?

No. It means that that's the only response a rival fan can have. It means that there is no answer to this argument. They know we are right. They know there is nothing to compare. Sometimes I think that football has died. The working man's game. The game we all used to know and love, where support was unquestionable, and I mean for all players. I myself have become too wrapped up in worrying about who plays well, who should be shipped out, who we need to sign, who doesn't deserve to wear the shirt. I need to take a step back away from the narrow minded vision of winning sometimes and realise that there is much more to being a fan than just hoping we win.

I love this club with all my heart. I have recently found myself in a situation where I am very much alone. It was all very sudden and I don't know how it all happened. But throughout that time all I have had as a constant is my football club. Something which can never leave me, never judge me, always be there and always provide me with joy at least a few times during every year. Right now I am thankful for that.

Pride is a strange thing. It can kick you in the ass and make you look like a prick. It can get you into trouble and it can hurt like you never dreamed. But still, pride is the one thing which I can never let go of, and I know that it will never leave me. I am fucking proud of this club, the players, the manager and my fellow fans. It's not always about getting what we want, who we want, the trophies we want. Sometimes, like myself, you need to take a step back and realise that it is an absolute priviledge to be a fan of this club. I have done so tonight.

fucking great post mate

[eric_cartman]

What is the point of a football club? A lot of people today would say : winning. But I don't agree with this, winning is a great part but not the point. I would actually be very sad if a guy like Abramovic comes and buys our club. I prefer it this way and I think our future looks bright just like our past.

[edeyj]

The thing I have found over the years is not to rise to the bait with so called supporters of other teams (whether they are true supporters or glory hunters). It kills them if you either say nothing or (if you can stand to do it) agree with them. Takes the wind out of their sails!

Take contentment that you know in your heart that you support the greatest club in the world.

[East of Anfield]

I wear my pride on my sleeve, literally!

[Walking Through A Storm]

Spot on lad.