Author Topic: Dead loss at dead balls (cheers rossi)  (Read 5108 times)

Offline Juan Loco

  • down in Acapulco. LIkes 'em salty and succulent, the wee lambies!
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 32,283
  • "Keep it dense, yeah?"
Dead loss at dead balls (cheers rossi)
« on: May 13, 2008, 04:12:03 AM »
... Why can't we improve on them?

I know we go over this constantly, but I get the feeling that the importance of being a good set piece team is lost on some. The end of the season approaches, then envious glances cast at the Mancs or Arsenal's attacking play become more frequent. The cries for more attacking players and more flair, become louder and louder. And the idea that we - as we always seem to be - are just one or two attacking players away from competing with those above us becomes etched in the psyche of all Liverpool fans.

There's a degree of truth to it all of course. We could do with better attacking players. But, let's just assume that situation off the pitch is as bad as it sounds... what can we do without getting them to close the gap? The answer is obvious. It's been obvious for years though, and yet we're still absolutely atrocious at them. Maybe the coaches at the club need to place a great degree of importance on them. After all, it's often that we hear Rafa talk about "small details like set pieces" (or dozy, ginger liabilities) making the difference in the biggest games. How much of a difference could being a good set piece team make across the whole season?


We all know who the top scorers in the league are this season. We all hear about the free-flowing brilliance of the Mancs. The constant talk of Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez, or has Sky has so cringingly decided to call them, "the holy trinity". I despair, I really do.

Thankfully though, Sky did bring up something interesting today. When discussing Aston Villa earlier Slaphead Wilkins and Forehead Platt decided to show the table for the most set pieces scored across the season. Villa were top, I think it was Birmingham who were 2nd, Reading 5th etc. Teams of little consequence really - Yes that's right Villa fans, despite all the talk of "taking the race for 4th to the wire", you're closer to the bottom half of the table than you are to Liverpool - Well, teams of little consequence until in 3rd place you see a certain Manchester United. The figures were - 29 goals scored from set plays. 33% of their overall goal total. Of those 29 goals - and I think I've got this bit right - 4 were Ronaldo penalties, another 4 were Ronaldo freekicks, and 2 were Owen Hargreaves freekicks. A nice round number of 10 goals there to subtract away from the whole thing, leaving us with 19 goals seemingly scored from crossed freekicks and corners.

19 goals, "that's interesting" I thought to myself, "I wonder how many we've scored", so I decided to work it out. We've scored 7, excluding penalties and freekicks, depending on how you work it out. I decided to include Voronin's rebound goal against Spurs early in the season, but ignore Torres' 2nd against Pompey, because that would've been the '2nd phase' of the corner. The initial corner was poor and cleared. So there we go, 7 goals, one of which is Alonso's straight from the freekick against Derby (but I'm counting that 'cos it was a class delivery).

That's an 12 goal difference. Or, to put it into a different light - that's equivilent to them adding Gerrard's league total (+1) into their goals for column. Essentially, the difference between us on set plays is greater than the goalscoring output of the highest scoring midfielder (Ronaldo aside) in the league over the course of a season. 12 goals. That's more than Mancini, Maxi Rodriguez, Ashley Young, David Bentley or Ricardo Quaresma scores in a league season.

So why is it then that we're clamouring after a winger so badly, when just improving the set pieces would offer us as much of a goal-threat as the best of any available winger?

We're not talking about rocket science here. Of the top 6 teams two have been relegated; Birmingham and Reading. They've both scored 20+ from set pieces this season (not sure how many pens etc). ... So if Birmingham and Reading can get this stuff sorted, how come we can't? Do they have better coaches? Doubtful.

Incidentally, two of the other teams who were in the top 6, were Spurs and Aston Villa. Two of the 4 teams to have outscored us in the league this season.


Anyways, rounding this whole point off...

Manchester United have scored 80 goals in the league this season.
Liverpool have scored 67 goals.

Manchester United have scored 12 goals more from set pieces. From corners and crossed freekicks. From open play Manchester United have scored 1 more goals than Liverpool. To put it another way - if you were remove to the invaluable goal scoring contribution of Ji Sung Park (or Wes Brown *sigh*) from the equation, the amount of goals scored in open play would be equal.

Equal. Equality with the most free-flowing, attacking, care-free, tactics free team ever to play the game. ... well, close to it. If we could just take a decent set piece.


Please don't missunderstand me, I'm not suggesting all our ills will be cured with the ability to score regularly from corners and freekicks. I'm not saying that we won't still need a winger, or new fullbacks, if we get putting in a decent ball down to a fine art form. They'd still be very welcome. I'm just trying to prove that the gap can be closed in ways that don't end with the phrase "we need world class wide men".

There we go. I know posts filled with statistics aren't usually welcomed favourably, given how open to manipulation they are. I hope I haven't done that, but I am trying to prove a point, so I'm sure I have to a degree. Let's hope we get these things sorted out soon though anyways


For all those interested, here are the set pieces we scored from this season in the league. If I've left any out then please feel free to add them:

Alonso vs Derby (h)
Voronin vs Tottenham (h)
Kuyt vs Newcastle (a)
Hyypia vs Bolton (h)
Crouch vs Aston Villa (h)
Aurelio vs Bolton (a)
Torres vs Reading (h)
« Last Edit: May 13, 2008, 03:22:05 PM by Juan Loco »
"It's the football philosophy that counts, not the system."

A fully signed-up member of SPAS
The Stuart Pearce Apologist Society

Offline nots321

  • Main Stander
  • **
  • Posts: 131
Re: Set Pieces
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2008, 04:26:41 AM »
imo our players cause hardly any threat in the air. We have the likes of hyypia who is quite good but this season our other cb's do not contribute at all. Carragher and skrtel dont pose any real threat and with teh exception of the game where carra had about 1000 chance i dont really recall any other point in teh season where the two have had many shots on goal at all. Torres only really is good on set pieces since he has great positioning and can finish when it comes to him however, he cant get a contested header goal bound imo.

Also we need better delivery from set pieces.  gerrard does the occasional good ball in which are mostly headed off target by our players, but alot of them either go over our group of players or hit the first man, and it is quite unreliable to consitently challenge the gk from set pieces.
A new set peice taker + agger returning could do wonders for the number of set pieces we will score since a more accurate taker would mean more chance to capitolise on torre's good positioning and also agger poses more of a threat for set pices in and around the box

Offline AussieG

  • Kopite
  • ****
  • Posts: 501
  • Gerrard shots, OH MY WORD WHAT A GOAL
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2008, 04:30:59 AM »
gerrard vs. arsenal
gerrard vs. newcastle

Wasn't torres equaliser against totenham from a free kick
« Last Edit: May 13, 2008, 04:35:37 AM by AussieG »

Offline Juan Loco

  • down in Acapulco. LIkes 'em salty and succulent, the wee lambies!
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 32,283
  • "Keep it dense, yeah?"
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2008, 04:34:18 AM »
gerrard vs. arsenal
gerrard vs. newcastle

... They were scored essentially direct from freekicks (I'm not counting those ridiculous half a yard lay-offs as anything to do with 'delivery'). I'm talking about balls into the box that are attacked, or cleverly worked situations around the box that end in a goal. Not two yard lay-offs and blasts at goal.
"It's the football philosophy that counts, not the system."

A fully signed-up member of SPAS
The Stuart Pearce Apologist Society

Offline AussieG

  • Kopite
  • ****
  • Posts: 501
  • Gerrard shots, OH MY WORD WHAT A GOAL
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2008, 04:36:52 AM »
... They were scored essentially direct from freekicks (I'm not counting those ridiculous half a yard lay-offs as anything to do with 'delivery'). I'm talking about balls into the box that are attacked, or cleverly worked situations around the box that end in a goal. Not two yard lay-offs and blasts at goal.

Fair enough, i still thought torres header against tot came from a free kick ball into the box. I may be wrong

Offline Redcap

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,698
  • You wrote a bad song Petey!
Re: Set Pieces
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2008, 04:37:46 AM »
Yeah, it's definitely a problem.

What's even more worrying about that is..out of all of those, all of 2 goals (?) were from headers. Clearly we have some real problems attacking set pieces. It'd be interesting to see who scores all of those set piece goals for Villa. Wouldn't be surprised if the defenders chipped in with a few. I think Mellberg scored something like 8 if I'm not mistaken.

We've got Sami, who always gets his share, but Carra has never been able to do that for us from a set piece, and it seems Skrtel hasn't as of yet either. Neither Aurelio nor Arbeloa are a threat inside the area either. Looking further up the pitch, who in our midfield is likely to get nick a goal inside the area? Mascherano would stay outside the area, and doesn't really have the height or jumping prowess to be really effective. Xabi seems to stay outside the area as well despite being of a good height. Kuyt has scored a couple of goals from set pieces for us but clearly doesn't do it often enough. Gerrard more often than not takes the set piece himself rather than getting on the end of it, which I still think is something Xabi should be doing instead. Babel hasn't shown a great deal of effectiveness.. which leaves us with Torres..

.. Torres and Sami, our only two real goal threats from a header in a set piece. That should explain a little of why we score so few from them.

Offline Rotation

  • fuck u.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,707
  • Pepe Reina is a Scouser...
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2008, 04:40:34 AM »
Fair enough, i still thought torres header against tot came from a free kick ball into the box. I may be wrong
Nope...Finnan cross me thinks.

Edit: Yep- 2.30 in    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_wIjJjOuNk&feature=related
« Last Edit: May 13, 2008, 04:47:32 AM by rotation, no? »
ynwa

Offline AussieG

  • Kopite
  • ****
  • Posts: 501
  • Gerrard shots, OH MY WORD WHAT A GOAL
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2008, 04:50:15 AM »
Nope...Finnan cross me thinks.

Edit: Yep- 2.30 in    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_wIjJjOuNk&feature=related

Yes you are correct my bad

Offline Rotation

  • fuck u.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,707
  • Pepe Reina is a Scouser...
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2008, 04:56:48 AM »
Yes you are correct sorry

It's ok mate; I wasn't too offended. ;)
ynwa

Offline Barnes & Beardsley

  • Anny Roader
  • ***
  • Posts: 303
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2008, 05:02:54 AM »
Yes, our set pieces have been a worry for some time now. I have noticed over the last few months that the delivery has been better, but we don't have players attacking the crosses. You can only count on Hyypia and Torres to do something. It's the same with free-kicks. We don't see enough movement or our players making runs and creating a bit of space for themselves. The best set pieces I've seen from us were Torres' header against Reading where he made that sneaky run and Hyypia's carefully placed header against Arsenal.

Arsenal, Villa, Spurs and the bitters seem to make the most from set pieces and have all scored a lot. I think Laursen for Villa has scored about 5 with young delivering and Lescott around 6. Reading benefit from great delivery from Shorey supplying and targets in the box.

It's definitely something we need to address on the training field.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2008, 05:04:37 AM by Barnes & Beardsley »

Offline Redcap

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,698
  • You wrote a bad song Petey!
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2008, 05:09:07 AM »
Anyone else notice that Lucas seems to really attack free kicks and crosses a fair bit? The kid's got a great footballing brain. He hasn't got the physical attributes yet, but he always knows what the right thing to do is.

Offline albertared

  • Left England in 1990 - probably chased by a mob.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,013
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2008, 05:11:31 AM »
Yes, our set pieces have been a worry for some time now. I have noticed over the last few months that the delivery has been better, but we don't have players attacking the crosses. You can only count on Hyypia and Torres to do something. It's the same with free-kicks. We don't see enough movement or our players making runs and creating a bit of space for themselves. The best set pieces I've seen from us were Torres' header against Reading where he made that sneaky run and Hyypia's carefully placed header against Arsenal.

Arsenal, Villa, Spurs and the bitters seem to make the most from set pieces and have all scored a lot. I think Laursen for Villa has scored about 5 with young delivering and Lescott around 6. Reading benefit from great delivery from Shorey supplying and targets in the box.

It's definitely something we need to address on the training field.


even saami and nando don't really "attack" the ball. they are both good in the air when they get space but i can't really recall either of them knocking people out the way to get the ball.

in comparison, john terry (yeah, yeah, i don't like him either but that's not the point!) goes for the ball with a kind of "get out of my fucking way, it's mine" kind of attitude. even if he doesn't get it i'm pretty sure he puts the shits up many defenders.

that's what i would like to see more of from our guys. overall i think we are a little too nice.
Left England 1990...still on our perch...I think I'd better come back because it's all gone haywire since!

Offline Juan Loco

  • down in Acapulco. LIkes 'em salty and succulent, the wee lambies!
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 32,283
  • "Keep it dense, yeah?"
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2008, 05:15:38 AM »
Yeah, it's definitely a problem.

What's even more worrying about that is..out of all of those, all of 2 goals (?) were from headers. Clearly we have some real problems attacking set pieces. It'd be interesting to see who scores all of those set piece goals for Villa. Wouldn't be surprised if the defenders chipped in with a few. I think Mellberg scored something like 8 if I'm not mistaken.

We've got Sami, who always gets his share, but Carra has never been able to do that for us from a set piece, and it seems Skrtel hasn't as of yet either. Neither Aurelio nor Arbeloa are a threat inside the area either. Looking further up the pitch, who in our midfield is likely to get nick a goal inside the area? Mascherano would stay outside the area, and doesn't really have the height or jumping prowess to be really effective. Xabi seems to stay outside the area as well despite being of a good height. Kuyt has scored a couple of goals from set pieces for us but clearly doesn't do it often enough. Gerrard more often than not takes the set piece himself rather than getting on the end of it, which I still think is something Xabi should be doing instead. Babel hasn't shown a great deal of effectiveness.. which leaves us with Torres..

.. Torres and Sami, our only two real goal threats from a header in a set piece. That should explain a little of why we score so few from them.

I agree to an extent with that, but I don't think that should excuse how poor we are to be honest.

Up until this season did you think of Lescott as a threat from set pieces? Did you see him as someone who was a huge threat in the air? I'll be honest, I didn't. I mean, I didn't think he was awful in the air, but nothing worth writing home about.

... He's got 7 goals this year though. He got 2 last year.

What about Laursen at Villa? I know he's had his injuries, but he'd still played nearly 30 games in the league for them before this season, and he'd only scored once. This year he's got 6. That's more than in the rest of his career if you add up all his goals, I think I'm right in saying. Where's that come from?

Again, Laursen has been good in the air, but purely from a defensive point up until this season. Suddenly he's in and around the box attacking the ball at it's got him his rewards.


I remember early after the season - pretty sure it was after we wasted loads of set plays in dangerous areas against Pompey - trying to count how many 6ft+ (or there abouts) players we'd used up until that point.

Carragher, Agger, Hyypia, Crouch, Babel, Gerrard, Alonso, Riise, Arbeloa, Kuyt (?), Torres, Leto & Sissoko. Thirteen.

Obviously Sissoko has moved on (but Skrtel is another who is 6ft+) and Agger and Leto have been unavailable. That's still alot of players though. There's usually atleast 5 of them on the pitch at any one given time.

Maybe I'm wrong here, and doing coaches and injustice, but surely coaching the ability to attack the ball and head it well must be one of the easiest things to do?

You would like to think if there are atleast five 6ft+ players on the pitch then they could atleast cause a distraction, even if they're not scoring goals. I mean, if Arbeloa or Xabi is making a run across to try and get a connection on the ball, they're atleast going to drag two defenders away, even if they're not going to score.

I know we're thin on the ground with players who attack the ball well, but at the same time, I don't think the Mancs are particularly blessed there either. Vidic, Ferdinand, Ronaldo... maybe Brown at a stretch. I find it infuriating that Carragher, Skrtel/Agger and Gerrard can't cause similar problems. That really is something they should be able to do.


I find the whole thing quite infuriating to be honest, because I see some really average teams who are good at set pieces. Do Birmingham and Reading really have players who are better headers of the ball than our own? Are Almeria's players really more inventive than Alonso, Gerrard, Benayoun or Aurelio?

If we're not great at attacking the ball, why don't we focus more on being creative with our set pieces? Like we did for the Reading goal, like we did for Agger's against Chelsea. Almeria do it on a weekly basis. Benfica scored against us like it and it put them on the road to a European quater final.

If we're struggling with attacking the ball (and we shouldn't be) then we should be working our bollocks over on getting a couple of 'creative' routines ready for each weekend. Given how invaluable set pieces can be, there should be no excuses for not doing it.


Yup, I've gone from trying to make a good point in a clear and concise manner to angry, tired ranting. I still maintain that I have a point though.
"It's the football philosophy that counts, not the system."

A fully signed-up member of SPAS
The Stuart Pearce Apologist Society

Online zero zero

  • The Flanders Pigeon Murderer
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,194
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2008, 05:16:16 AM »
Just recently (with about two games to go, I think) we'd only scored 7% of our goals from headers. The lowest in the league. Depressing

Offline Juan Loco

  • down in Acapulco. LIkes 'em salty and succulent, the wee lambies!
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 32,283
  • "Keep it dense, yeah?"
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2008, 05:17:57 AM »
Anyone else notice that Lucas seems to really attack free kicks and crosses a fair bit? The kid's got a great footballing brain. He hasn't got the physical attributes yet, but he always knows what the right thing to do is.

I get what you mean. I've noticed similar. I wouldn't describe what he does as attacking the ball though. He just seems to find the space that the ball will most likely go to. Players who attack the ball - in my opinion - dicate where the ball will be delivered to. Lucas doesn't do that, he just seems to know where the ball will end up. Just can't time/direct his headers well enough yet.
"It's the football philosophy that counts, not the system."

A fully signed-up member of SPAS
The Stuart Pearce Apologist Society

Offline Red Heaven

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,511
  • check it
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2008, 05:20:34 AM »
gerrard vs aston villa away

good post Jaun enjoyed it
Simply Stunning, Simply Stevie G
All your southerners are twat headed c*nts, the dregs of English humanity, who eat their own faeces.
Top post by Red Heaven.

Offline Redcap

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,698
  • You wrote a bad song Petey!
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2008, 05:21:46 AM »
gerrard vs aston villa away

good post Jaun enjoyed it

Read it carefully mate, he means the cleverly worked ones. Not the ones that go straight into the net

Offline Juan Loco

  • down in Acapulco. LIkes 'em salty and succulent, the wee lambies!
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 32,283
  • "Keep it dense, yeah?"
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2008, 05:22:49 AM »
gerrard vs aston villa away

good post Jaun enjoyed it

Cheers.

Gerrard vs Villa was another shot from a freekick. It was brilliantly finished, but it wasn't really a set play in the sense I'm thinking of. It relied on the genius of one man, not the hard work or intelligence of the team (and coaching staff) to execute a routine perfectly.
"It's the football philosophy that counts, not the system."

A fully signed-up member of SPAS
The Stuart Pearce Apologist Society

Offline Red Heaven

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,511
  • check it
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2008, 05:23:55 AM »
seeing as though Birmingham and Reading have gotten the chop it might be a good look to go for the players that made all their goals from set play possible.

Im talking of Shorey and Larrson. Not the best players but can really add quality deliveries into the box. Seb Larrson has a mean freee kick on him i would expect he makes the move to a bigger team in the summer
« Last Edit: May 13, 2008, 05:53:18 AM by Red Heaven »
Simply Stunning, Simply Stevie G
All your southerners are twat headed c*nts, the dregs of English humanity, who eat their own faeces.
Top post by Red Heaven.

Offline Red Heaven

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,511
  • check it
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2008, 05:32:27 AM »
with shorey hitting 27 years of age i think sort of puts him out of the picture but Larsson being the tender age of 22 and having so much potential he could really be an exciting prospect in the future. I think this is one youngster Arsene let go that he is now regretting seeing as they dont have the best set play takers going round with their main style being let Van Persie either ripp the net or knock out some poor kids front teeth in row Z
« Last Edit: May 13, 2008, 05:40:33 AM by Red Heaven »
Simply Stunning, Simply Stevie G
All your southerners are twat headed c*nts, the dregs of English humanity, who eat their own faeces.
Top post by Red Heaven.

Offline Barnes & Beardsley

  • Anny Roader
  • ***
  • Posts: 303
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2008, 05:36:01 AM »
even saami and nando don't really "attack" the ball. they are both good in the air when they get space but i can't really recall either of them knocking people out the way to get the ball.

in comparison, john terry (yeah, yeah, i don't like him either but that's not the point!) goes for the ball with a kind of "get out of my fucking way, it's mine" kind of attitude. even if he doesn't get it i'm pretty sure he puts the shits up many defenders.

that's what i would like to see more of from our guys. overall i think we are a little too nice.

I agree with your point about Hyypia and Torres. I would like to see more of the bullying players out of the way, winning the ball at all cost type, even if we don’t hit the net. We’ve seen Gallas, Terry, Vidic and Ferdinand get a lot free headers, although they have been wasteful.

Offline minusone

  • considered rubbish
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,146
  • Resurrection 2.0
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2008, 05:37:54 AM »
Let me summarise this in a few words.

Stop Gerrard taking corners.

Thank you and goodnight.
Fired?? He should be shot! With shit, human shit!

Offline hesbighesred

  • But you can call me quick fingers, if you can prise them off Dirk's balls
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,992
    • Collaborative thoughts on Euro 2012
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2008, 05:47:51 AM »
Let me summarise this in a few words.

Stop Gerrard taking corners.

Thank you and goodnight.

Have to agree there, I think it's pretty much as simple as that: Takers. Gerrard is poor, but others we have who should be better are in fact worse. Bentley and Barry would solve this problem nicely.

Not only do you then have good delivery for shots and passes, with variation between takers and Gerrard an option, but you also have Gerrard free to attack the ball in the box, which I think would be worth another 3-4 goals a season for him too. Gerrard, Torres, Babel, Kuyt, Skrtel, Agger, Aurelio are all potential threats with the right (IE a decent) delivery.
Collaborative Euro 2021 blog I'm writing for. Check it out, and by all means share your views.
http://straightoffthebeach.wordpress.com/

Offline Wiggles

  • Anny Roader
  • ***
  • Posts: 267
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2008, 09:35:42 AM »
What about Laursen at Villa?

The whole of Villa's season has been improved by goals from set pieces, something stupid like 50% of their goals have come from them.  O'Neill has obviously put a lot of work in to them and its paid off massively.  Barry would bring a nice bit of left foot distribution

Offline steelersmark

  • is engaged to a girl from Firenze.... firenze forever? Facebook Whopper Extraordinaire.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,506
  • Don't go out tonight...
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2008, 09:48:46 AM »
It really is criminal how wasteful we are from set pieces. I hate how when we get a corner, although I will get excited, deep down I think it almost might as well be a goal kick! The worst thing is we always win so many corners - it's usually a good 8-10 per game and we make no use of it.

Perhaps this is something Rafa has in mind in chasing Gareth Barry, might he improve things?
"Lads, we've all seen Airport, we know where this is going."

Offline AussieG

  • Kopite
  • ****
  • Posts: 501
  • Gerrard shots, OH MY WORD WHAT A GOAL
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2008, 09:58:09 AM »
Whether it worth bringing up or not but!

I got from a gunners fan mate of mine,

In the EPL last season they scored 13 goals from set pieces. All but 4 were from headers. Having Ade and bendner attack the ball worked for them.

Also this does not include free kicks (direct shots)


Offline lamonti

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,721
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2008, 10:00:43 AM »
The Villa way of doing things is to emphasise hard outswinging crosses and having four or five real threats who really really want to head the ball. When they played us Gerrard and Laursen were effectively greco-romano wrestling on the edge of the box as their second goal went in. It was a full on struggle, Laursen desperate to get in where the ball was going to be, Gerrard desperate to keep him out.

Our frees seem to be a lot of overthought scrambling around and poor deliveries.

I think Gerrard has to be one of the people in the box - he has a brilliant header and his delivery is far from consistently great. It would add at least another threat. Another problem is that Carra a fucking teddy bear in the opponents box. No chance of scoring. He just does his typical run to the backpost to pick up any scraps, but its only worked once in four years, against Fulham.

We certainly need to improve.

Online Fat Scouser

  • Trolley Dolly with a 54 2/3 inch waist - last seen shopping on Scottie Road for speedos
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 20,653
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2008, 10:09:15 AM »
... Why can't we improve on them?
Stop Gerrard taking corners, let him lurk outside the box
"The issue which has swept down the centuries, and which will have to be fought sooner or later, is the people vs the banks. Lord Acton, Historian, 1834 - 1902.

www.misternobody.co.uk

Love you Luis, yer mad bastard, yer.

Offline lincolnred-dad

  • ok i'm an arse. a big fat arse.
  • Kopite
  • ****
  • Posts: 797
  • It's my bloody fence and I'm sitting on it!
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2008, 10:09:32 AM »
the importance of a good set piece taker/crosser is so obvious it doesn't need saying (even though i just did) but just to add something.......

in my fantasy league with my mates i tend to go for the set piece takers, the ones who grab those vital assists to goals, as without them there are very few goals. two of my biggest points scorers this year were barry and young at villa, and while they scored a few themselves they had a LOT of assists between them.

regardless of what you think personally of them it's hard to argue that they are both good players who could be a welcome addition to our team, personally i'd rather see young here than barry as i think he's better suited to playing out wide and has more pace.

if we had better crossers of the ball we wouldn't need the reliance on playing the one up front that we've had at the end of the year (yes it's worked but if torres got injured who would fill that gap?) with two good wingers playing (don't have to be world class, just able to do the job) such as young/babel/bently/pennent(still think he could do a job if he improves just a bit) we can play a 4-4-2 with crouch/torres/kuyt/another and attack those balls in the box more.
this means we'd have 2 formations that can really threaten the goal and means we can change a game better if it's not working.

sorry to ramble on, just a thought
p.s. whats happened to anderson, thought he was the answer to our wide problems?
If Tevez signs I will be the first man in history to run from Sydney to Melbourne in complete and utter nudity  :D

Offline Rusty Oysterburger

  • Might be George Gillett
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,209
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2008, 10:21:44 AM »
I still don't understand why Gerrard takes them, you'd think someone with his attacking football brain (and ego) would want to be the one on the end of it bagging a goal.

I think Alonso and Aurelio can take better ones, remember Aurelio's quick free kick against Aresnal last year? If they had the chance to take them regularly they surely would improve?
www.twitter.com/savagefletch

"'Do it?' Dan, I'm not a Republic serial villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my master-stroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome? I did it thirty-five minutes ago."

Offline Vinny1892

  • Main Stander
  • **
  • Posts: 140
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2008, 10:38:12 AM »
Gerrard is very good in the air, and has the height , strength and power to score a decen number of headers. As he takes 99% of our set pieces though, it's pretty difficult for him to get on the end of any!!  :butt

Offline rossipersiempre

  • On the lookuyt for a new winger since 2007 BC, the arrogant puritan! Comolliphile extraordinaire.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,055
  • Vær modig. Tag risici. Der er kun én værdig.
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2008, 10:43:07 AM »
Nice post Juan - catchier title? "Dead loss at dead balls"?

For me, it's mainly the Gerrard 'Me me me!' factor, with a touch of the Fabio 'hey I USED to be deadly from set pieces back at Valencia' factor, and a dash of the 'everyone else is useless at delivering a ball into the danger area' factor.
My scouse, the often busted but seldom battered Mr Flabby Whore Alien. Who will not send in cottoned wool, bubbled rap, shiny sliver spaced blanket and sum beefy Bovril to keep it warm and safe and snag as bag in a rag? Oh Whore yours is a sweeter leftish peg

Online abhred

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,213
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2008, 10:45:03 AM »
Fabio 'hey I USED to be deadly from set pieces back at Valencia' factor'

The sad part is, he WAS brilliant from set pieces at Valencia. Hasn't shown anything here though.

More than delivery, it's the fact the we just don't attack the balls. We just stand still, and hope the ball somehow reaches Sami.
It wouldn't be Liverpool if we didn't do it the hard way... ask Gareth Southgate.

Offline NornIron!!

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,080
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2008, 10:47:43 AM »
I have to say if Sami isn'ton the pitch I never once think were going to score from a corner, I always laugh when the camera switches to Carra wandering up, sadly he's just no good at attacking headers
As poppy petals gently fall
Remember us who gave our all
Not in the mud of foreign lands
Not buried in the desert sands

In Ulster field and farm and town
Fermanagh lanes and drumlin'd Down
We died that violent death should cease
And Ulstermen might live in peace.

Offline Art Vandelay

  • a.k.a. Terry Gilliam
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,710
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2008, 10:50:15 AM »
We could have 8 of the best headers of the ball in the world in the box and we still wouldn't score more than 5 goals a season from corners....because we are uttery incapable of putting the ball in the right place.

But then, we've always been shit at them, for god knows how many years.
"And on the pedestal these words appear: 'My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!' Nothing beside remains."

Offline b_joseph

  • Unloyal gloryhunter who was probably Kelly Osbourne in another life.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,612
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #35 on: May 13, 2008, 10:52:16 AM »
We dont score from set pieces mainly because we only have 1 player who attacks a ball in the air and can do something with it once he meets the ball first.

That person is Sami Hyypia.

Look how many times United have thrown in a really average cross but CRonaldo has found his way to the ball because of sheer will. Vidic is the same way...fuck even Tevez.

Outside of Hyypia, our players wait for the ball to come to them and invaribly foind themselves behind their marker or watching someone else from the opposition meet the ball first.
Its the exact same problem we have from defending cross and corners.
Dry sheets, ice cream, jelly beans....3 of my favorite things.

Offline b_joseph

  • Unloyal gloryhunter who was probably Kelly Osbourne in another life.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,612
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2008, 10:53:50 AM »
We could have 8 of the best headers of the ball in the world in the box and we still wouldn't score more than 5 goals a season from corners....because we are uttery incapable of putting the ball in the right place.
You will never know that until you have a good amount of headers on the team. All you have to do is look at how much of a threat Hyypia is to know that personnel is just as important if not more important than delivery.
Dry sheets, ice cream, jelly beans....3 of my favorite things.

Offline Art Vandelay

  • a.k.a. Terry Gilliam
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,710
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2008, 11:05:40 AM »
You will never know that until you have a good amount of headers on the team. All you have to do is look at how much of a threat Hyypia is to know that personnel is just as important if not more important than delivery.
I have nothing to back this up, but I'm sure we hit the first man more often than anyone else in the world.
"And on the pedestal these words appear: 'My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!' Nothing beside remains."

Offline JohnnyDrama

  • hey new members to RAWK: He's a really really annoying feedback tourist and thick. If you dont believe me, he even admitted it himself. Post-match angler
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,293
  • JFT 96
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2008, 11:11:31 AM »
agger vs chelsea 2nd leg champs league semi 06/07...............oh u want the league and this year.

hmm think you've covered them all.

good thread.
Greatest Band in the world.

www.myspace.com/brandnew

Offline Dr Cornwallis

  • Ministry of Scilly Talks :)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,148
Re: Set Pieces [needs a catchier title]
« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2008, 11:19:13 AM »
If you want the reason why the Mancs won the league and we came 4th...it is a lot more simple than you think.

United won the league.  Fact.
United dropped 27 points in the league.  Fact.

United achieved that by winning 27 games, drawing 6 games and losing 5.

Nevermind the draw and loss numbers, it's the points dropped that count.
If we want to win the title next season then we must only drop 27 points, and we can either lose 9 games and draw none and win the rest, or we can add some draws in there but lose less.
But anyway you look at it, we must win about 27 league games next season if we are to mount a challenge.
We can do it.  Our problem for a while was home games, and these are the games we need some guile to unlock defences.