Topic: Shanklyboy's and Fat Scousers ( Leo who's still alive ) auld arse thread

[bigbonedrawky]

just booked a holiday to Boston and Maine, anyone been ?

 i have only Done New York and Florida so far

There I was thinking it'd be all allotments and a Jack Russell for you in retirement.

 

Boston is a lovely city Geoff - was over in the States for a works-related course but took the opportunity to visit my wife's aunty and cousins there. Well it was lovely in the mid-80's - Faneuil hall is a must visit. Lobster chowder luvverly. Plus went for a drink in Cheers bar - in downtown Boston. Nice!!
Don't know much about Maine sorry - barely set foot in that state but it looks very pretty in Autumn by all accounts mate.

You've got to do the Freedom Trail mate - the old Minuteman monument , Concord / Lexington stuff and the burial grounds of British redcoats that fell to the old colonial "Minutemen". All in all you're looking forward to some lovely jubbly!! Enjoy it!!

"Minutemen" Its all insurgants and terrorists nowadays.

[JohnnoWhite]

Geoff, Just remembered we went to the witches town of Salem too. Worth a quick visit and not too far from Boston.

[pooley]

Hiya Johnno, just wondering what your thoughts are on Wayne Rooney. There has been a lot of speculation recently about a possible return to Goodison, with mixed reactions from Blue-noses, Some would love it others thing it would be a backward step. The lad scored a goal last night that Bobby Charlton would have been proud of, and it is hard not to compare the two of them given there records for both United and England. Personally as a biased red, I think Rooney has been a very good player and he had a couple of good seasons where he was probably the best around in his position. I don't think he has ever come close to being as good as Charlton was, but football is all about opinions isn't it?

[JohnnoWhite]

Hiya Johnno, just wondering what your thoughts are on Wayne Rooney. There has been a lot of speculation recently about a possible return to Goodison, with mixed reactions from Blue-noses, Some would love it others thing it would be a backward step. The lad scored a goal last night that Bobby Charlton would have been proud of, and it is hard not to compare the two of them given there records for both United and England. Personally as a biased red, I think Rooney has been a very good player and he had a couple of good seasons where he was probably the best around in his position. I don't think he has ever come close to being as good as Charlton was, but football is all about opinions isn't it?

Hiya mate. Well bottom line for me is Rooney, at the top of his game (which in my opinion was over the 5 years when he was age 23 through 27/8) still doesn't top Bobby Charlton's overall contributions to United's cause. 

Should he even consider going back to Everton? Two perspectives here. First, what would he really be able to bring to the dance at Goodison under Koeman?   Second, remember "once a blue always a Blue"? Maybe some PR short-term mileage in the "prodigal son returns" of course but I honestly couldn't see him effect a resurgence in Toffee blue longer than a season. Maybe it could come as a going away present from United on a free in a year or so's time that ,might suit him as I can't see him being interested in China (he's loaded as it is FFS) or similarly, don't think he'd fancy the States either for longer than a season.

In summary, for what it's worth, I think he'd likely make it into United's top 5 players of all time should there ever be a fan vote. Maybe that 5 would ultimately be Charlton Best and Law and sentimentally for me although he never had any longevity of performances behind him due to Munich, Duncan Edwards HAS to be up there alongside the Holy Trinity for the powerful and unique boy/man phenomenon he was in his four and half seasons from 1954 - 1958. Just my opinion as you say mate.

But I could just as easily on another day make a pretty strong case for Roy Keane/Bryan Robson, Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes, Eric Cantona and Denis Irwin or Steve Bruce, Peter Schmeicel and Gary Pallister having a fair shout to being in there too. For different reasons than the total goals scored - but just as important in my book - excellent keepers/defenders/midfielders have an equally big shout alongside the headline grabbing forwards for how many goals against they prevented over the years.

[vicgill]

If you two do meet up, may I be a fly on the wall?

You are certainly welcome mate

[Rick13]

Hiya mate. Well bottom line for me is Rooney, at the top of his game (which in my opinion was over the 5 years when he was age 23 through 27/8) still doesn't top Bobby Charlton's overall contributions to United's cause. 

Should he even consider going back to Everton? Two perspectives here. First, what would he really be able to bring to the dance at Goodison under Koeman?   Second, remember "once a blue always a Blue"? Maybe some PR short-term mileage in the "prodigal son returns" of course but I honestly couldn't see him effect a resurgence in Toffee blue longer than a season. Maybe it could come as a going away present from United on a free in a year or so's time that ,might suit him as I can't see him being interested in China (he's loaded as it is FFS) or similarly, don't think he'd fancy the States either for longer than a season.

In summary, for what it's worth, I think he'd likely make it into United's top 5 players of all time should there ever be a fan vote. Maybe that 5 would ultimately be Charlton Best and Law and sentimentally for me although he never had any longevity of performances behind him due to Munich, Duncan Edwards HAS to be up there alongside the Holy Trinity for the powerful and unique boy/man phenomenon he was in his four and half seasons from 1954 - 1958. Just my opinion as you say mate.

But I could just as easily on another day make a pretty strong case for Roy Keane/Bryan Robson, Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes, Eric Cantona and Denis Irwin or Steve Bruce, Peter Schmeicel and Gary Pallister having a fair shout to being in there too. For different reasons than the total goals scored - but just as important in my book - excellent keepers/defenders/midfielders have an equally big shout alongside the headline grabbing forwards for how many goals against they prevented over the years.

I remember Euro 2004 in Portugal. A 19 year old Rooney scored 4 goals for England and was playing superbly; that was also one of the better England teams. But in the quarter final against the hosts, Rooney was injured midway through the first half and had to go off. England eventually lost on penalties. Portugal would go on to lose the final against  outsiders, Greece.

I believe that if Rooney hadn't been injured, England could well have gone on to win that tournament (or maybe lost on penalties to Greece in the final ). 

[Rick13]

You are certainly welcome mate

Me too, can I be another fly?

I love listening to stories and opinions about Liverpool from the late 60s and, especially, the 70s. 

[JohnnoWhite]

Impressed with the destruction of Watford yesterday - not on the basis of watching MOTD ( in bed last night at 8.00 with a debilitating attack of man-flu ;-) ;-) ) but by hearing the HT comments of the match commentator. His view was it ought to be closer to 10 with another 45mins + inj time still to come!

I like and have always liked Klopp - a very good mix of a fella that combines clear leadership, sound football nouse and topped of by the appropriate amount of professionalism, humour and focus. That kind of mix in a manager subliminally rubs off onto any squad and you can't ever put a value on that!

Congratulations to LFC on occupying top spot. The big challenge obviously is how to stay put there now that winter's on its way. Not 100% clued up on the depth of his current squad - as a United fan, why would I be?? - but I judge that Jurgen will for certain know who he wants and where he needs additional cover and class to maintain the club's title hopes.

I always have and always will applaud those who play the game the right way - even if (as has been the case over my years following the game) it bloodywell chokingly turns out that it's a Liverpool squad that delivers it!

There's a long way to go yet of course with just 11 games of the season gone (and though it pisses me off to say it) Chelsea having surgically dissected the Toffees this w/e, are beginning to look very scary under Conte.

I am thinking it could be an Arsenal (or Spurs), City, Chelsea and Liverpool 4-way battle for the title. If it can't be (and it won't be) a United title win at season end, then the way Klopp's got his lads performing currently and just as important, manages to stay injury-free with his key players, Liverpool have got my vote.

[only6times]

Spot on John. The lads are playing with a smile on their faces ( Chelsea are too, though I can't tell with Costa) and  I think that can only be a plus. Urgent has experience of building a team and winning titles.

[JohnnoWhite]

Spot on John. The lads are playing with a smile on their faces ( Chelsea are too, though I can't tell with Costa) and  I think that can only be a plus. Urgent has experience of building a team and winning titles.

OK mate? Who's urgent by the way?

[Manila Vanilla]

OK mate? Who's urgent by the way?

It's obviously some sort of autocorrect feature, Johnno - probably of Conte.
I can't get my phone to come up with this correction though.....

[only6times]

OK mate? Who's urgent by the way?

Me when I need a piss John!!! Jurgen but auto correct thinks it can read my mind when in fact my missus does.

[JohnnoWhite]

Me when I need a piss John!!! Jurgen but auto correct thinks it can read my mind when in fact my missus does.

PMSL!!

[inky2]

Adam's goal remind anyone of the Saint in '65 ?

[only6times]

Adam's goal remind anyone of the Saint in '65 ?

My dad's favourite goal.

[inky2]

a joy to behold young'un  ;-)

[inky2]

There you go

[inky2]

ok it's the other way round but still tasty !

[inky2]

Just posted those pics in the Lallana thread on the main forum and had the comment 'off topic slightly.' God help us.

[Ycuzz]

Just posted those pics in the Lallana thread on the main forum and had the comment 'off topic slightly.' God help us.

I don't think the poster meant your post was off topic, (it wasn't), I think he meant that his post was slightly off topic [on Lallana] as it was about headed goals.

[the 92A]

Some lovely posts from Vic and John. On Rooney, I have a soft spot for him, The lad I go the match with is a second cousin and from the stories I hear Rooney seems decent enough.  In my mind Rooney is unselfish, he plays for the team rather than himself. One of my mates played in Goal for the Oyster in Crocky. One night he's going to work and is walking past the Western approaches doorway and Standing outside is a young Wayne Rooney, who my mate recognised as he'd  just broken into the Everton team. As he's going past Rooney shouts to him all excited 'hey mate, you were the Goalie for the Oyster, I used to watch you, you were really Good ' My Mate was made up.

Also as an aside my daughter was waitressing at the Grand National in Rooneys Box and Colleen and his family were fantastic with her basically taking a shine to her and looking after her to the point they told her boss they wanted her to watch the racing with them and insisting she was allowed to have drinks with them.  She couldn't talk more highly of them

[JohnnoWhite]

Some lovely posts from Vic and John. On Rooney, I have a soft spot for him, The lad I go the match with is a second cousin and from the stories I hear Rooney seems decent enough.  In my mind Rooney is unselfish, he plays for the team rather than himself. One of my mates played in Goal for the Oyster in Crocky. One night he's going to work and is walking past the Western approaches doorway and Standing outside is a young Wayne Rooney, who my mate recognised as he'd  just broken into the Everton team. As he's going past Rooney shouts to him all excited 'hey mate, you were the Goalie for the Oyster, I used to watch you, you were really Good ' My Mate was made up.

Also as an aside my daughter was waitressing at the Grand National in Rooneys Box and Colleen and his family were fantastic with her basically taking a shine to her and looking after her to the point they told her boss they wanted her to watch the racing with them and insisting she was allowed to have drinks with them.  She couldn't talk more highly of them

The Roonsters lives just down the road from me in Prestbury alongside a lot of other footie folk in an effing big gated mansion o' course! The word around Macclesfield is that they keep to themselves unsurprisingly but are ordinary and decent Scousers who just got lucky enough to get loaded.

I too like Rooney Albie and I wish him well in whatever or wherever the game eventually takes him. I'm wondering what his real honest take on the Special fella is. I'd like to think that privately Rooney like me, can't abide the fella.


 

[the 92A]

A honest player who I've often slagged of at the match but always thought of as a good player. From reading about him, it appears he feels he can best effect a game playing in a deeper role using his experience and the Other fella insists he plays in a more forward role. Red cafe reckon he is the mole feeding the press the stories about the players being surprised at the lack of coaching from Mourinho. Putting all rivalry aside John, can't  imagine how disappointed you must feel having him as your manager.  I know I would and I know you have more Corinthian spirit in your little toe than I have. Great to see you and Vic posting in this thread, I've just started reading a book called a photograph of Mr Shankly and it's about a young lad who's a Liverpool fan growing up in the fifties in Birkenhead and discovering football and music, he's just  brought back loads of Lemmo bottles and been to his first match Everton against The Busby Babes. It's full of social history, only on first chapter if it continues as well as the first few pages it's some book and I'll write a review in the thread for some who'll appreciate it

[5Goldstars]

I was talking to a mate about the most full it felt on the Kop when it was standing and we both agreed it was versus Brentford in the FA Cup the same season as Hillsborough                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

I went to Carlisle away in the 3rd Round and under the roof in the away end and in there another mate came out with bruised ribs it was choca and we just thought it would be worth asking older Reds your stories of over crowding at games before Hillsborough

[5Goldstars]

Bloody hell, it was one of the funniest things I've seen in my life although admittedly it was not in the best possible taste.
It was for Surprise Surprise, Cilla came to Anfield and pre match they they tried to get the Kop to sing a chant for some old dear who had done many years sterling work for the girl guides or the brownies I think, with some cheerleaders in attendance. They're not having much joy and as as was pointed out they sang 'Get your tits out for the lads' to the amusement of many in the stadium. We were playing Wimbledon that day if my memory serves me well and public enemy number one, Vinnie Jones, appears out of the tunnel onto the pitch to warm up, the next thing half the Kop is making  signs and singing 'Vinnie Jones is a wanker, is a wanker' Cilla starts to giggle while cupping the old dear's ears. One of those moments of inappropriate hilarity.

You have a better memory than me fella

[JohnnoWhite]

A honest player who I've often slagged of at the match but always thought of as a good player. From reading about him, it appears he feels he can best effect a game playing in a deeper role using his experience and the Other fella insists he plays in a more forward role. Red cafe reckon he is the mole feeding the press the stories about the players being surprised at the lack of coaching from Mourinho. Putting all rivalry aside John, can't  imagine how disappointed you must feel having him as your manager.  I know I would and I know you have more Corinthian spirit in your little toe than I have. Great to see you and Vic posting in this thread, I've just started reading a book called a photograph of Mr Shankly and it's about a young lad who's a Liverpool fan growing up in the fifties in Birkenhead and discovering football and music, he's just  brought back loads of Lemmo bottles and been to his first match Everton against The Busby Babes. It's full of social history, only on first chapter if it continues as well as the first few pages it's some book and I'll write a review in the thread for some who'll appreciate it

You're not wrong about the Portugueser lad!! Cannot abide him - he diminishes the ethos of what once was my boyhood club. On a happier note, I would love to get a copy of that Albie - great, great days for what once upon a time used to be our game. Is that the correct full title mate?

[the 92A]

You're not wrong about the Portugueser lad!! Cannot abide him - he diminishes the ethos of what once was my boyhood club. On a happier note, I would love to get a copy of that Albie - great, great days for what once upon a time used to be our game. Is that the correct full title mate?

  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mr-Shanklys-Photograph-Journey-Cavern/dp/186105646X It strted out as a factual book but the author turned it into novel. I've only read a few pages and if it was being criticised as a novel, I'd probably say let the story and characters tell their own story and let the social history come out in the process but for me the explanation as to why a Liverpool fan would go to Everton games and Everton vs Man Utd is really interesting in it's own right. The general rule for novels is show don't tell but I'm enjoying the telling

[Rick13]

I was talking to a mate about the most full it felt on the Kop when it was standing and we both agreed it was versus Brentford in the FA Cup the same season as Hillsborough                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

I went to Carlisle away in the 3rd Round and under the roof in the away end and in there another mate came out with bruised ribs it was choca and we just thought it would be worth asking older Reds your stories of over crowding at games before Hillsborough

Not a story of overcrowding but perhaps relevant for the attitude and approach of the constabulary towards Liverpool fans in particular, and football fans in general, pre-Hillsborough.

I attended Liverpool's last game before Hillsborough. It was a midweek match against Millwall at The Old Den and the first time I'd been to the ground. I'd arrived in London from Ireland, looking for work, a few weeks earlier. I went to the game on my own and knew that Millwall fans had a bad reputation so I needed to be careful.

As I came within sight of the ground, I stopped and asked a policeman where the Liverpool end was. He nodded and pointed towards the entrance facing me. Following his instructions, I went through the turnstile and, to my shock, found myself in the raucous Millwall end behind the goal. I feigned clapping when they took an early lead and watched in silent joy as the Reds replied with 2 goals to win the match. It was quite an experience but I often wonder if that policeman deliberately misled me with his directions because I was a Liverpool supporter.

Of course it's also possible that, on hearing my Irish accent, the policeman made incorrect assumptions about me in relation to the ongoing terrorist campaign of the IRA in the UK at that time and deliberately mislead me (I have never supported terrorism). However, given everything we now know about Hillsborough and the treatment of the Liverpool supporters at the game by the police, it wouldn't surprise me if his false instructions were based on an anti-Liverpool fan bias.

[Manila Vanilla]

we just thought it would be worth asking older Reds your stories of over crowding at games before Hillsborough

The biggest crush I remember was for the title clincher against Leicester in 1973, but it was outside the ground. We got there early but still spent a lot of time whirling and eddying against the wall of the Kop. Eventually, I got squirted into the turnstile sideways, like a grape pip being spat out.

Inside the ground it would have been an FA Cup tie against Leeds in 1972 (56,300 attendance) and St Etienne, just for the pandemonium. The biggest surprise was Auxerre in 1991. There was a really good atmosphere but just 23,000 there (or reported as being there).

The thing was, whenever you got caught in a crush like that you just assumed it would sort itself out. It never felt dangerous.

[inky2]

I don't think the poster meant your post was off topic, (it wasn't), I think he meant that his post was slightly off topic [on Lallana] as it was about headed goals.

fair kop but the rules about off topic do seem a tad strict

[JohnnoWhite]

The biggest crush I remember was for the title clincher against Leicester in 1973, but it was outside the ground. We got there early but still spent a lot of time whirling and eddying against the wall of the Kop. Eventually, I got squirted into the turnstile sideways, like a grape pip being spat out.

Inside the ground it would have been an FA Cup tie against Leeds in 1972 (56,300 attendance) and St Etienne, just for the pandemonium. The biggest surprise was Auxerre in 1991. There was a really good atmosphere but just 23,000 there (or reported as being there).

The thing was, whenever you got caught in a crush like that you just assumed it would sort itself out. It never felt dangerous.

Can't agree with "it never felt dangerous" sorry mate.  I was outside OT queuing for tickets for a European game that was up-coming. I must have been about 13 or 14 which would have been back in 1959 - can't be sure. First of all the queuing was fairly orderly but the late-comers at the back started to get a bit anxious and a surge shoved us all forward. From pretty confused memory, I recall being very scared early doors and as I was pressed ever closer to the ticket gate, (my perception ironically, is it had to be very close to where the Munich plaque and clock is now at the Manchester south end) the weight of bodies behind flattened me against the wall two yards or so from the actual window where the tickets were being dispensed.

I remember I had my extended arms against that wall - totally futile of course - and they soon collapsed flat against the wall where I then began to have difficulty even breathing in. I have never in my life been so glad to see the arrival of a mounted policewoman would you believe who placed and manoeuvred her horse between me and the queue of the buggers at the back.

That lady I firmly believe saved my life that night by backing her mount into the press of bodies by forcing her horse to tread on the bastards that were behind me who were oblivious to what was going down against that wall.
Suddenly a half a yard of space opened up and I could breathe again. I got my ticket - can't for the life of me remember who it was against and neither did I give a shit - and I peeled away from the mob whose only focus was getting to that ticket window and getting their ticket. I clawed my way along the wall away from the window to find clear space. I look back on it and can re-live it vividly even now though it was some 57 years ago.

I blame the club for that fucking horrible night because from my recall, there were only two or three ticket windows manned on that one side of the ground - and the fucking windows were all together like 1, 2 and 3 within a space of 2 yards between each window - so no space to fan out in anything like orderly queues !!

Luckily for me, I was at the end window on the right side of the three that were doling out the tickets and after getting my ticket, I managed to squeeze my way sideways along the wall to where no-one AT ALL was trying to queue.

 
A nightmare in the making that was - and I couldn't have been the only one who was shitting themselves by the crush.

God alone knows the terror that must have been all-enveloping in Sheffield on that terrible, terrible day 27 years ago April gone. May all of those poor terrified souls rest in peace.

[Manila Vanilla]

A nightmare in the making that was - and I couldn't have been the only one who was shitting themselves by the crush.

I can understand incidents like that changing your outlook, Johnno. My Granddad experienced the same thing on the Kop in a cup tie against Chelsea in 1966. He never went back on the Kop, though I put it down to him being a bit older and frailer.

It was often the edge of discomfort that made the whole experience more intense back then. You always expected to spend some time wedged against a barrier. The surges were spectacular but part of the event. People who lost consciousness were passed over everyone’s heads to the St John’s men on the touchline. The worst thing would be admitting to your mates that you’d fainted.

I spent time squashed in tunnels at other grounds, often because people who’d arrived on the terraces hadn’t moved on. In many grounds (old Wembley being one) the best view you were ever going to get was when you emerged. Moving down progressively changed the perspective and gave a worse view. You’d frequently get tannoy announcements asking people to move down and make space.

At Anfield there was a group of half a dozen guys who’d always arrive late and barge their way through to the middle of the Kop five minutes before kick-off. They saw it as a joke.

You always thought that somebody was in control and would send a police horse or do something else to restore normality. After all, nobody died at a football match… Incidents like Ibrox were an aberration, where the cause was known and action had been taken.

Hillsborough was different because of the layout of the ground and because nobody was in control. The central tunnel was a magnet when you went in. I headed towards it but my mates said you got a better vantage point high up on the side. We ended up with a similar view to the police control box, but opposite it.

It never crossed our minds that a major incident had happened because there were no major surges. People just coalesced. We never thought of overcrowding because we could see how much space there was on the sides. It was the pens that stopped people from dispersing from the entry points. We just thought these things couldn’t happen, until I saw a head and shoulders bobbing up and down on the pitch – an attempt to resuscitate.

It changed all of our outlooks. Those guys never steamed in before kick-off after that.

[nozza]

I floated down the steps at the very back of the Kop a few times as a kid in the seventies, me feet literally not touching the steps half the way down due to the crush and swell on the way out. Only time I felt scared in there.

The fellas that always used to come in just before kickoff stinking of ale,chips and ciggies and fuck up your speck, then as you got older you turned into one of them...right of passage.

I think the Kop and being in it when it was full on gave you an edge of awareness like nowhere else. You had no control whatsoever but somehow you always came out feeling totally exhilarated. Someone would always hold you up if you were on the way down in one of the spills, or if you were pressed up against a bar space would be made by the older hands to dip under and get out of the pressure.

 I have vivid and great memories of games and moments that you can't really explain to anyone who never experienced it ....the simple joys of watching someone fuckin leg it across the pitch dodging stewards to get in the Kop from the Annie rd, big cheers if they made it and boos if they got caught.

Just pure entertainment an hour before the match, or the auld fella who used to take the penalties in front of the Kop pissed up. The continual jabbing songs at the Annie rd. I miss it like fuck but still get the same felling of well being and home when i walk up the steps before the game when i get to go now. No where in the world like it.

[kopite.keith]

Remember having to get out on one of my earliest experiences on the Kop, it was packed and I struggled to breathe, it was the game when Tony Hateley scored that famous diving header.

[JohnnoWhite]

I floated down the steps at the very back of the Kop a few times as a kid in the seventies, me feet literally not touching the steps half the way down due to the crush and swell on the way out. Only time I felt scared in there.

The fellas that always used to come in just before kickoff stinking of ale,chips and ciggies and fuck up your speck, then as you got older you turned into one of them...right of passage.

I think the Kop and being in it when it was full on gave you an edge of awareness like nowhere else. You had no control whatsoever but somehow you always came out feeling totally exhilarated. Someone would always hold you up if you were on the way down in one of the spills, or if you were pressed up against a bar space would be made by the older hands to dip under and get out of the pressure.

 I have vivid and great memories of games and moments that you can't really explain to anyone who never experienced it ....the simple joys of watching someone fuckin leg it across the pitch dodging stewards to get in the Kop from the Annie rd, big cheers if they made it and boos if they got caught.

Just pure entertainment an hour before the match, or the auld fella who used to take the penalties in front of the Kop pissed up. The continual jabbing songs at the Annie rd. I miss it like fuck but still get the same felling of well being and home when i walk up the steps before the game when i get to go now. No where in the world like it.

Oh for the old days!! OK so we were similarly at risk - of course logic says we must have been at risk - even though we didn't know it. My feet never touched the ground coming back over the bridge over the railway line coming out of OT. Never gave it a second thought when me dad said lift your feet off the ground and you'll be fine son - and carried along. But 96 of us fans weren't fine were they?? Fucking disgraceful and a crime against humanity!!

[Yorkykopite]

Interesting discussion on how safe the old Kop was.

I'd echo the comments of those who said that it always felt more dangerous getting in and out of the ground than actually being on the terrace itself. The sway of the crowd inside was generally predictable and, although weird and disconcerting at first, you soon got used to it. There was a method which we all picked up quickly. Basically 'don't fight it'. The only time I felt in danger was in '77 when we had the title decider against Ipswich. Officially there was 56,000 capacity crowd but I'm certain there were more than that in the ground. The Kop was heaving in the hour before kick off and, unusually, it never settled down once the game had begun. It was the only time I've been to a match and spent as much time thinking about trying to get comfortable as watching the football.

However I agree with those who say it was outside the ground where the real problems often were. On big-match days when the queues to get in were massive and the mounted police behaved like Wellington's cavalry the crush outside the Kop could be very scary, especially if you were still young and not yet fully grown. There was nothing predictable about that kind of turbulence. I remember that the Leeds games were always like that.

Getting off the Kop at the top could also be tricky - the height and steepness of the slope at the back was ridiculous when you think about it, with everyone behind you seemingly eager to get to the buses, into the pub or into the bookies. Until the club eventually re-structured the thing, it wasn't unlike that staircase at Ibrox. I guess we were lucky.   

We could, of course, be having a different type of conversation if things had taken a turn for the worse in '66 when the Reds played Ajax. This was before my time (was anyone from RAWK there?) but weren't there over 200 people injured that night on the Kop? I came across some reports once in the Times and the Manchester Guardian and the testimony of folks on the Kop sounded all too familiar after Hillsborough. What saved the day was the lack of fences since hundreds of fans were allowed to get on to the pitch to relieve the crush on the terrace.

[Rysoph76]

I know this match was after 1989 but I do remember, having stood on the Kop since 1986 when I was ten, that the game against Genoa (which i've just looked up was March 92) felt very very crowded and I had to move out of the centre as I felt completely trapped and could barely breathe. That was the only time in the 8 years from 86-94 when I went to virtually every home game that I ever felt in danger.

I do remember, on the odd occasion when my mum or aunty would come with me to a game that they used to get very nervous getting out of the ground when we would get to a gridlock and no-one could move. 

[MichaelA]

A pleasure, as always, to meet up with The Gulleysucker again this evening. Cheers, Nick!

[Dr. Beaker]

We could, of course, be having a different type of conversation if things had taken a turn for the worse in '66 when the Reds played Ajax. This was before my time (was anyone from RAWK there?) but weren't there over 200 people injured that night on the Kop? I came across some reports once in the Times and the Manchester Guardian and the testimony of folks on the Kop sounded all too familiar after Hillsborough. What saved the day was the lack of fences since hundreds of fans were allowed to get on to the pitch to relieve the crush on the terrace.

I was at the Ajax game with my mate, we were 12 years old, and we had to be carried over the heads to the pitch, to get out of the crush, the only time we had to do that - and that was in the Anfield Road end! We never did see the stools we were standig on again, but it was worth it to see Yeatsy in those little yellow shorts. Hope I'm right about that last bit, I'm sure we wore all yellow for some reason. Calling Manila Vanilla, calling Manila Vanilla.

[Manila Vanilla]

Calling Manila Vanilla, calling Manila Vanilla.

Manila Vanilla to Doc - are you receiving me? I wasn't there and am at the airport for a weekend away. Will consult my scrapbook when I get back. Something tells me it was yellow shirts and red shorts (or light grey and dark grey in my scrapbook).
Roger and out!